Countertrey wrote:Complete and utter devastation... that is what you are looking at, folks. Maybe we used a little too much C-4. Ooops!
Oh yeah! Well I'll have you know that later after I'd logged off I came up with THE ultimate comeback. It was witty and TOTALLY put you in your place. It was DEVASTATING! Unfortunately we had a power outage and I wasn't able to log on and now it's kind of late so I'm just going to let it go. But know that you were very, very lucky, you dodged a real bullet that time!
Hail to the Redskins!
Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him
Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Countertrey wrote:Complete and utter devastation... that is what you are looking at, folks. Maybe we used a little too much C-4. Ooops!
Oh yeah! Well I'll have you know that later after I'd logged off I came up with THE ultimate comeback. It was witty and TOTALLY put you in your place. It was DEVASTATING! Unfortunately we had a power outage and I wasn't able to log on and now it's kind of late so I'm just going to let it go. But know that you were very, very lucky, you dodged a real bullet that time!
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:Weak arm? Old QB? Sound familiar?
Collins is all that Brunell would have been for this team under Saunders, had the Good Lord blessed him with more height.
It's too bad Collins folded under pressure in Seattle. Otherwise, we would have hoisted the Lombardi in February instead of the Gints.
Folded under pressure?? Please. The guy played as well as anyone could expect with someone in his face every play. If you check the stats, I think Collins stats were around 260 yards and 2 TD's...better than Hasselbeck, and extraordinary considering the pressure. Based on what I saw of Campbell last year, he would have been a disaster under that type of pressure with his slow reads and release.
This "Jason needs time to learn the system" is a sad tune we've been listening to for the past two years. Though I predict now that the Z-Man isn't going to be as patient with him as the previous administration.
We are likely to see Collins in action with a healthy Campbell on the sideline if JC continues to play the way he did last year. Half a season and no TD's to WR's ? That was pathetic.
And in reality, I'm not sure Campbell has what it takes for a WC offense. He's too slow.
well, collins isn't a speed demon himself. He knows where to go with the ball but he doesn't have a real quick release and he absolutely has no arm. He is really more of a pocket passer himself as well. If campbell proves to be to slow, which with his arm strength i don't think he will, there may be some Colt Brennan action.
DESkins wrote:Since when can there be "too much C-4"?
Excellent point.
"Fire in the hole!"
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:Weak arm? Old QB? Sound familiar?
Collins is all that Brunell would have been for this team under Saunders, had the Good Lord blessed him with more height.
It's too bad Collins folded under pressure in Seattle. Otherwise, we would have hoisted the Lombardi in February instead of the Gints.
Folded under pressure?? Please. The guy played as well as anyone could expect with someone in his face every play. If you check the stats, I think Collins stats were around 260 yards and 2 TD's...better than Hasselbeck, and extraordinary considering the pressure. Based on what I saw of Campbell last year, he would have been a disaster under that type of pressure with his slow reads and release.
This "Jason needs time to learn the system" is a sad tune we've been listening to for the past two years. Though I predict now that the Z-Man isn't going to be as patient with him as the previous administration.
We are likely to see Collins in action with a healthy Campbell on the sideline if JC continues to play the way he did last year. Half a season and no TD's to WR's ? That was pathetic.
And in reality, I'm not sure Campbell has what it takes for a WC offense. He's too slow.
well, collins isn't a speed demon himself. He knows where to go with the ball but he doesn't have a real quick release and he absolutely has no arm. He is really more of a pocket passer himself as well. If campbell proves to be to slow, which with his arm strength i don't think he will, there may be some Colt Brennan action.
I'm not sure where this "he has no arm" thing comes from. What I saw was him hitting Moss in stride 30 yards down field. True, he's not going to throw it with the velocity that Campbell can, but he reads defenses much faster and does have a quicker release too.
The WC offense emphasises the 5-15 yard passing game, so it's far more important to make quick reads, and doesn't require a Brett Favre like cannon arm.
But I think Zorn has such a way with QB's that he may take Campbell to the next level this year. I may seem hard on Campbell at times, but I recognize his talent. My biggest concern with Campbell is that great QB's usually come into their own by the 3rd year, and they also have that certain something that translates into big plays when you need it. So far Campbell hasn't shown that.
He moves the ball well between the 20's, but misses the critical throws in scoring opportunities, and he has missed too many open receivers down field.
REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:Weak arm? Old QB? Sound familiar?
Collins is all that Brunell would have been for this team under Saunders, had the Good Lord blessed him with more height.
It's too bad Collins folded under pressure in Seattle. Otherwise, we would have hoisted the Lombardi in February instead of the Gints.
Folded under pressure?? Please. The guy played as well as anyone could expect with someone in his face every play. If you check the stats, I think Collins stats were around 260 yards and 2 TD's...better than Hasselbeck, and extraordinary considering the pressure. Based on what I saw of Campbell last year, he would have been a disaster under that type of pressure with his slow reads and release.
This "Jason needs time to learn the system" is a sad tune we've been listening to for the past two years. Though I predict now that the Z-Man isn't going to be as patient with him as the previous administration.
We are likely to see Collins in action with a healthy Campbell on the sideline if JC continues to play the way he did last year. Half a season and no TD's to WR's ? That was pathetic.
And in reality, I'm not sure Campbell has what it takes for a WC offense. He's too slow.
well, collins isn't a speed demon himself. He knows where to go with the ball but he doesn't have a real quick release and he absolutely has no arm. He is really more of a pocket passer himself as well. If campbell proves to be to slow, which with his arm strength i don't think he will, there may be some Colt Brennan action.
I'm not sure where this "he has no arm" thing comes from. What I saw was him hitting Moss in stride 30 yards down field. True, he's not going to throw it with the velocity that Campbell can, but he reads defenses much faster and does have a quicker release too.
The WC offense emphasises the 5-15 yard passing game, so it's far more important to make quick reads, and doesn't require a Brett Favre like cannon arm.
But I think Zorn has such a way with QB's that he may take Campbell to the next level this year. I may seem hard on Campbell at times, but I recognize his talent. My biggest concern with Campbell is that great QB's usually come into their own by the 3rd year, and they also have that certain something that translates into big plays when you need it. So far Campbell hasn't shown that.
He moves the ball well between the 20's, but misses the critical throws in scoring opportunities, and he has missed too many open receivers down field.
I think taller receivers that can actually catch will help both those problems. When Moss and El lose the ability to separate in the red zone, there is no way they could possibly be open because of zone coverage and their inability to win a jump ball. Apparently they don't run great routes either because cooley seems to get open in the end zone. And he wins jump balls. He was really the only receiver worth a crap last year. Also, Moss dropped 2 or 3 passes where he had the corner beat downfield. He seemed to be able to catch and win jump balls when collins came in. People can say it was all collins but i saw a change in moss later in the year. And campbell throws a flat ball, which suits taller receivers better downfield as opposed to short receivers who need the ball to drop over their shoulder. Not to say Campbell shouldnt learn to use more touch. Thats his main weakness.
riggofan wrote:I'd like to see Redskins fans not even start with this argument.
Should we start the 37 year old guy or our young first round draft pick now in his third year? I don't know. Which option gives us the best chance of finally securing a long term franchise QB?
He is in his fourth year. Rookie, than came off the bench for Brunel, last year. This is his 4th year. To be honest if Campell doesn't perform this year and take the next step, I am not sure if he ever will. I know all that system stuff, but facts are Big Ben won a superbowl his soph. year, Tom Brady won a superbowl his second year, Eli won a superbowl while he was young, we threw Ramsey under the table his third year and he went through a lot more crap than Campell. If JC performs this year like he did last year, we need to bring in a Qb to compete with JC for the starting job. This year though we should start JC and see how he does, what he does early we will see, than go from there.
Why did we have a bad red zone offense?
Was it lack of possesion reciever?
Was it Campell inability to make quick reads?
Well this year we got Kelley, Thomas, and Davis big targets. If u say there rookies we got Mix who Campell loves. This year we will find out if it was the Qb or the Wr's. I look forward to seeing what the real problem was. He has no exscuse this year.
John Manfreda wrote:Why did we have a bad red zone offense? Was it lack of possesion reciever? Was it Campell inability to make quick reads? Well this year we got Kelley, Thomas, and Davis big targets. If u say there rookies we got Mix who Campell loves. This year we will find out if it was the Qb or the Wr's. I look forward to seeing what the real problem was. He has no exscuse this year.
Personally I think it was a combo of the receivers and the play calling. Too conservative and too much of the jumbo package in the red zone.
John Manfreda wrote:Why did we have a bad red zone offense? Was it lack of possesion reciever? Was it Campell inability to make quick reads? Well this year we got Kelley, Thomas, and Davis big targets. If u say there rookies we got Mix who Campell loves. This year we will find out if it was the Qb or the Wr's. I look forward to seeing what the real problem was. He has no exscuse this year.
2 in 3 redzone attempts, were running plays, to CP, to Sellers, to Betts. JC didn't get as many chances as you seem to think. Is it JC's fault too when the RBs can't punch it in?
If JC is not the answer, Collins is not the answer either. We would just have to draft another.
John Manfreda wrote:Why did we have a bad red zone offense? Was it lack of possesion reciever? Was it Campell inability to make quick reads? Well this year we got Kelley, Thomas, and Davis big targets. If u say there rookies we got Mix who Campell loves. This year we will find out if it was the Qb or the Wr's. I look forward to seeing what the real problem was. He has no exscuse this year.
Personally I think it was a combo of the receivers and the play calling. Too conservative and too much of the jumbo package in the red zone.
I agree. Many times everyone in the stadium knew what play the Skins would run.
Skins fan since '55
"The constitution is not a suicide pact"- Abraham Lincoln
John Manfreda wrote:Why did we have a bad red zone offense? Was it lack of possesion reciever? Was it Campell inability to make quick reads? Well this year we got Kelley, Thomas, and Davis big targets. If u say there rookies we got Mix who Campell loves. This year we will find out if it was the Qb or the Wr's. I look forward to seeing what the real problem was. He has no exscuse this year.
Personally I think it was a combo of the receivers and the play calling. Too conservative and too much of the jumbo package in the red zone.
I agree. Many times everyone in the stadium knew what play the Skins would run.
riggofan wrote:I'd like to see Redskins fans not even start with this argument.
Should we start the 37 year old guy or our young first round draft pick now in his third year? I don't know. Which option gives us the best chance of finally securing a long term franchise QB?
He is in his fourth year. Rookie, than came off the bench for Brunel, last year. This is his 4th year. To be honest if Campell doesn't perform this year and take the next step, I am not sure if he ever will. I know all that system stuff, but facts are Big Ben won a superbowl his soph. year, Tom Brady won a superbowl his second year, Eli won a superbowl while he was young, we threw Ramsey under the table his third year and he went through a lot more crap than Campell. If JC performs this year like he did last year, we need to bring in a Qb to compete with JC for the starting job. This year though we should start JC and see how he does, what he does early we will see, than go from there.
I was with you until you got to Eli. Eli still hasn't developed, at least as far as qb rating goes. Honestly, I am fine with campbell not turning into brady. Brady may be the best qb ever. On a positive note, there are a lot more young qbs that are not doing as well as campbell in comparison to ones that are doing better. And other than ey, Campbell has had absolutely nothing to throw to.
+1 on the above, Eli was great, but he was also forgettable in some games last season, in the supabowl, he had alot of help, like WR's catching balls with their head.
#21 (36) This IS and will always be the High watermark where all new DB's are measured.
riggofan wrote:I'd like to see Redskins fans not even start with this argument.
Should we start the 37 year old guy or our young first round draft pick now in his third year? I don't know. Which option gives us the best chance of finally securing a long term franchise QB?
He is in his fourth year. Rookie, than came off the bench for Brunel, last year. This is his 4th year. To be honest if Campell doesn't perform this year and take the next step, I am not sure if he ever will. I know all that system stuff, but facts are Big Ben won a superbowl his soph. year, Tom Brady won a superbowl his second year, Eli won a superbowl while he was young, we threw Ramsey under the table his third year and he went through a lot more crap than Campell. If JC performs this year like he did last year, we need to bring in a Qb to compete with JC for the starting job. This year though we should start JC and see how he does, what he does early we will see, than go from there.
I was with you until you got to Eli. Eli still hasn't developed, at least as far as qb rating goes. Honestly, I am fine with campbell not turning into brady. Brady may be the best qb ever. On a positive note, there are a lot more young qbs that are not doing as well as campbell in comparison to ones that are doing better. And other than ey, Campbell has had absolutely nothing to throw to.
First of all, about Campell having nothing to throw to ur wrong. Moss has had success with Pennington and Brunell. He has overthrown Moss on numerous occasions. Oh yeah, he has had success with Todd Collins, three qb's have had success with him, so don't give me this he is too short crap. Randel El started for the Steelers when they won the superbowl. He didn't have great recievers to throw too, but if ur a good qb u can complete passes and have a good rating with these recievers. Look at Manning's recievers this year? Manning has done one thing though that Campell hasn't, he has shown he can win. JC has not done that. JC has a 8-12 record, I don't care what his rating is, I want him to show me he can lead. When I watched Campell this year I did not see a leader, I saw a guy that was big, strong, fast legs, but he had accuracy and timming issues, and he wasn't a leader. He threw a lot of interceptions, but so did Brett Favre, but Favre is a leader. Some of Campell's mistakes I think he will continue to make, but I don't think he has shown he can be a leader.
John Manfreda wrote:Why did we have a bad red zone offense? Was it lack of possesion reciever? Was it Campell inability to make quick reads? Well this year we got Kelley, Thomas, and Davis big targets. If u say there rookies we got Mix who Campell loves. This year we will find out if it was the Qb or the Wr's. I look forward to seeing what the real problem was. He has no exscuse this year.
2 in 3 redzone attempts, were running plays, to CP, to Sellers, to Betts. JC didn't get as many chances as you seem to think. Is it JC's fault too when the RBs can't punch it in?
If JC is not the answer, Collins is not the answer either. We would just have to draft another.
U can say what u want, but u can't ignore the fact that when Collins came in, our redzone problems dissapeared. I am not saying Campell won't do it this year, I am just saying u can't ignore his performance. I know he knows the system, he knew everything, but fact is u still have to make the throw, u still have to make the read, the system didn't make the throw for him, the system didn't move around in the pocket for him. Knowing the system does help, but u still have to make the play. We don't have to draft another, we can trade for Derek Anderson. I think this is a make or break season for Campell, people can say what they want but remember this isn't Jim Zorn's guy if he doesn't play well, Jim Zorn will probably want to bring in his own Qb. I don't think Jim Zorn is going to be as patient with JC as Gibbs is. What did we learn from all of our coaching changes. Norv to Marty translated in Jeff George to Tony Banks ( I know, but fact is there still was a Qb change), Marty to Steve translated into Banks for Flordia guys and Ramsey, Steve to Gibbs translated into Ramsey for Brunell to JC. Head coaches want their own Qb's, Zorn is probably no different.
riggofan wrote:I'd like to see Redskins fans not even start with this argument.
Should we start the 37 year old guy or our young first round draft pick now in his third year? I don't know. Which option gives us the best chance of finally securing a long term franchise QB?
He is in his fourth year. Rookie, than came off the bench for Brunel, last year. This is his 4th year. To be honest if Campell doesn't perform this year and take the next step, I am not sure if he ever will. I know all that system stuff, but facts are Big Ben won a superbowl his soph. year, Tom Brady won a superbowl his second year, Eli won a superbowl while he was young, we threw Ramsey under the table his third year and he went through a lot more crap than Campell. If JC performs this year like he did last year, we need to bring in a Qb to compete with JC for the starting job. This year though we should start JC and see how he does, what he does early we will see, than go from there.
I was with you until you got to Eli. Eli still hasn't developed, at least as far as qb rating goes. Honestly, I am fine with campbell not turning into brady. Brady may be the best qb ever. On a positive note, there are a lot more young qbs that are not doing as well as campbell in comparison to ones that are doing better. And other than ey, Campbell has had absolutely nothing to throw to.
First of all, about Campell having nothing to throw to ur wrong. Moss has had success with Pennington and Brunell. He has overthrown Moss on numerous occasions. Oh yeah, he has had success with Todd Collins, three qb's have had success with him, so don't give me this he is too short crap. Randel El started for the Steelers when they won the superbowl. He didn't have great recievers to throw too, but if ur a good qb u can complete passes and have a good rating with these recievers. Look at Manning's recievers this year? Manning has done one thing though that Campell hasn't, he has shown he can win. JC has not done that. JC has a 8-12 record, I don't care what his rating is, I want him to show me he can lead. When I watched Campell this year I did not see a leader, I saw a guy that was big, strong, fast legs, but he had accuracy and timming issues, and he wasn't a leader. He threw a lot of interceptions, but so did Brett Favre, but Favre is a leader. Some of Campell's mistakes I think he will continue to make, but I don't think he has shown he can be a leader.
Well if moss can only succeed under noodle arms like pennington, brunell, and collins, then good riddance. If the ball has to fall softly into his arms, and still half the time he still won't catch it, whats the point of having him around? The fact of the matter is that unless he gets open downfield, he is useless. He can't beat the bump, he can't catch, and he can't win a jump ball. While useful at times, Moss and El are not receivers you build your offense around. They are complimentary pieces used for screen plays or deep balls. They will not consistenly move the chains. As for Eli, he has Plax, and still had a pretty rough rating in the regular season. He did well in the playoffs though, I will give him that.
John Manfreda wrote:Why did we have a bad red zone offense? Was it lack of possesion reciever? Was it Campell inability to make quick reads? Well this year we got Kelley, Thomas, and Davis big targets. If u say there rookies we got Mix who Campell loves. This year we will find out if it was the Qb or the Wr's. I look forward to seeing what the real problem was. He has no exscuse this year.
2 in 3 redzone attempts, were running plays, to CP, to Sellers, to Betts. JC didn't get as many chances as you seem to think. Is it JC's fault too when the RBs can't punch it in?
If JC is not the answer, Collins is not the answer either. We would just have to draft another.
U can say what u want, but u can't ignore the fact that when Collins came in, our redzone problems dissapeared. I am not saying Campell won't do it this year, I am just saying u can't ignore his performance. I know he knows the system, he knew everything, but fact is u still have to make the throw, u still have to make the read, the system didn't make the throw for him, the system didn't move around in the pocket for him. Knowing the system does help, but u still have to make the play. We don't have to draft another, we can trade for Derek Anderson. I think this is a make or break season for Campell, people can say what they want but remember this isn't Jim Zorn's guy if he doesn't play well, Jim Zorn will probably want to bring in his own Qb. I don't think Jim Zorn is going to be as patient with JC as Gibbs is. What did we learn from all of our coaching changes. Norv to Marty translated in Jeff George to Tony Banks ( I know, but fact is there still was a Qb change), Marty to Steve translated into Banks for Flordia guys and Ramsey, Steve to Gibbs translated into Ramsey for Brunell to JC. Head coaches want their own Qb's, Zorn is probably no different.
For Christ's sake, it's CAMPBELL. Nothing worse than slaughtering your team's players names. It's not that freakin hard to get right.
...any given Sunday....
RIP #21 Sean Taylor. You will be loved and adored by Redskins fans forever!!!!!
GSPODS:
The National Anthem sucks.
What a useless piece of propagandist rhetoric that is.
John Manfreda wrote:U can say what u want, but u can't ignore the fact that when Collins came in, our redzone problems dissapeared.
You're not the first to make that claim, but I'm of the opinion that facts are being overlooked. Gibbs was notoriously conservative, and admittedly even more so this past season. During the first half of the season, play calling played a major role in the lack of production in the red zone and TD's thrown to WR's. How many times were we in the red zone and all Gibbs wanted to do was attempt to muscle up and run the ball in. He occasionally threw to a TE, but for the most part, he simply tried to pound the ball into the endzone. Defenses knew that was Gibbs' historical philosophy and were ready for it... every time.
By the time JC got hurt and Collins stepped in late in the season, we were in a "must win" scenario. Therefore, the offense opened up and Gibbs wasn't as conservative as he previously was. The play calling changed as they needed to win all of their remaining games to make the playoffs. I absolutely agree Collins had a greater understanding of Saunders offense, but he had played in it and studied it for a decade.
The Skins were in a must win situation and relinquished their notorious conservatism. I believe this was a major factor in Collins success at the end of the season.
John Manfreda wrote:U can say what u want, but u can't ignore the fact that when Collins came in, our redzone problems dissapeared.
You're not the first to make that claim, but I'm of the opinion that facts are being overlooked. Gibbs was notoriously conservative, and admittedly even more so this past season. During the first half of the season, play calling played a major role in the lack of production in the red zone and TD's thrown to WR's. How many times were we in the red zone and all Gibbs wanted to do was attempt to muscle up and run the ball in. He occasionally threw to a TE, but for the most part, he simply tried to pound the ball into the endzone. Defenses knew that was Gibbs' historical philosophy and were ready for it... every time.
By the time JC got hurt and Collins stepped in late in the season, we were in a "must win" scenario. Therefore, the offense opened up and Gibbs wasn't as conservative as he previously was. The play calling changed as they needed to win all of their remaining games to make the playoffs. I absolutely agree Collins had a greater understanding of Saunders offense, but he had played in it and studied it for a decade.
The Skins were in a must win situation and relinquished their notorious conservatism. I believe this was a major factor in Collins success at the end of the season.
We also had a lot more stability in the O-line inteh second 1/2 of the season (see Collins) than the 1st 1/2. I think that might have something to do with it.
...any given Sunday....
RIP #21 Sean Taylor. You will be loved and adored by Redskins fans forever!!!!!
GSPODS:
The National Anthem sucks.
What a useless piece of propagandist rhetoric that is.
An entire five page thread dedicated to the second string QB in an offensive system he didn't play in last season.
Oh, Joy. What's next? The "Ethan Albright" in the West Coast Offense thread? Or the "Sean Suisham in the West Coast Offense" thread?
Or maybe a "Jason Campbell in the West Coast Offense" thread would have made for more interesting discussion, seeing as how, barring the unfortunate, Campbell will be the one actually running the offense this season.
I bet Collins picks up the west coast offense fast. Jason Campbell will probably struggle to pick the offense up. If Jason Campbell happens to struggle I dont know how much more patience I will have with him being the starter. Even though it is a new offense, I want results now.
HEROHAMO wrote:I bet Collins picks up the west coast offense fast. Jason Campbell will probably struggle to pick the offense up. If Jason Campbell happens to struggle I dont know how much more patience I will have with him being the starter. Even though it is a new offense, I want results now.
How can you say that? Collins has NEVER played in a WCO and Campbell HAS. Baring an injury, there's little chance Collins sees the field, and I think Zorn has made this pretty clear, JC is our starter.
ey, Campbell has had absolutely nothing to throw to.
