Collins in the Redskins' WC Offense

Hooligan · Post by **Hooligan** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:08 pm

Collins performed incredibly well at the end of last season and there's been argument over whether there should be a competition in camp, blah blah. Was his great performance due to spending years studying the system, or is he that talented of a quarterback that he can translate his success over to a West Coast passing game?

Does anyone else suspect he may just be a product of Saunder's offense, which (as I understand it) is based on timing and throwing before a receiver makes his cut. Will he be as effective in the WCO which employs more short crossing routes and waiting for a receiver to get open, then dropping the ball into the hole in coverage the WR is heading toward? Correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.

I think he's a good QB, but if he's called up to play, probably won't flourish as he did under Saunders. Thoughts?

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:14 pm

His success was due to his intricate knowledge of the system. He won't be as sharp under this system because it's new.

He'll be a great backup for Jason.

/thread

CooleyAsIce · Post by **CooleyAsIce** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:38 pm

Apparently, the guy is so smart it's ridiculous. I've read stories about him memorizing game plans in one night.

Plus, according to Collins, Kansas City ran basically the same offense for two years before Saunders arrived.

He'll be fine. He'll pick it up in no time.

SKINFAN · Post by **SKINFAN** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:25 pm

I mostly associate TC with Frank Reich, great backup, arguably a starter but not THE main man...

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:20 am

Is it too late to jump on the Todd Collins bandwagon?

GSPODS · Post by **GSPODS** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:25 am

Since Jason Campbell will be healthy all season long, Todd Collins will do exceptionally well with the WCO clipboard in 2008. This thread seems to assume Collins will be seeing a considerable amount of playing time in 2008. Let's hope that is not the case. Not that I have anything against Todd Collins but Jason Campbell needs to be in the same offensive system with the same coaching staff and the same players long enough to reach his maximum potential. If Todd Collins is called into action, it will mean, yet again, that Campbell is injured, or that he is completely ineffective. Neither thought is a comforting one.

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:22 pm

I'd like to see Redskins fans not even start with this argument.

Should we start the 37 year old guy or our young first round draft pick now in his third year? I don't know. Which option gives us the best chance of finally securing a long term franchise QB?

PeetyPa · Post by **PeetyPa** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:58 pm

I think Collins is a pretty good back up and has a fast release which helps him even more because he reads defenses pretty good. He manages well , but with this new offense we just have to wait. Jason is our QB, no doubt.

Hooligan · Post by **Hooligan** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:45 pm

Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that Collins should start over Campbell. I was wondering whether Collins was THAT good of a QB, or whether he was a product of the system. Maybe he'll pick up the WCO like he did Saunders' and rock out if he has to start.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:24 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:His success was due to his intricate knowledge of the system. He won't be as sharp under this system because it's new.

He'll be a great backup for Jason.

/thread

You're probably correct. but for some reason your assumption annoys me. Maybe because it's never been remotely proven that he doesn't have special gifts that compensate for his relatively weak arm.

I have a suspicion that he's been vastly under rated his entire career because of appearances. It happens. There are hundreds of examples-- Johnny U. being one.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:51 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:but for some reason your assumption annoys me.

That satisfies me to no end. :wink:

crazyhorse1 wrote: Maybe because it's never been remotely proven that he doesn't have special gifts that compensate for his relatively weak arm.

I believe that last year proved that he has what it takes to overcome a weak arm. I had 100% faith in him and had been clamoring for him to get more time as the #2 guy. Delight was what I felt when he pushed MB04 to the side. His downfall in SEA wasn't his fault. We couldn't protect him at all. That beastly DE of theres had a field day against us.

That being said... I think that his level of performance was due to his intricate knowledge of the system. He NEVER had to think about anything... It was involuntary to him, like a beating heart. I think his knowledge of the system was a bit above and beyond the norm also.

I think he showed that with a grasp of a system, he could lead a team all the way.

crazyhorse1 wrote:I have a suspicion that he's been vastly under rated his entire career because of appearances. It happens. There are hundreds of examples-- Johnny U. being one.

I agree. I'd file him under that category. I'm happy that he got to show the world what he is capable of. It's great that he was able to elevate a team until an inspirational run. Hopefully that'll do a bit to quench that thirst that's been a mainstay of his career.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:51 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
crazyhorse1 wrote:but for some reason your assumption annoys me.

That satisfies me to no end.

crazyhorse1 wrote: Maybe because it's never been remotely proven that he doesn't have special gifts that compensate for his relatively weak arm.

I believe that last year proved that he has what it takes to overcome a weak arm. I had 100% faith in him and had been clamoring for him to get more time as the #2 guy. Delight was what I felt when he pushed MB04 to the side. His downfall in SEA wasn't his fault. We couldn't protect him at all. That beastly DE of theres had a field day against us.

That being said... I think that his level of performance was due to his intricate knowledge of the system. He NEVER had to think about anything... It was involuntary to him, like a beating heart. I think his knowledge of the system was a bit above and beyond the norm also.

I think he showed that with a grasp of a system, he could lead a team all the way.

crazyhorse1 wrote:I have a suspicion that he's been vastly under rated his entire career because of appearances. It happens. There are hundreds of examples-- Johnny U. being one.

I agree. I'd file him under that category. I'm happy that he got to show the world what he is capable of. It's great that he was able to elevate a team until an inspirational run. Hopefully that'll do a bit to quench that thirst that's been a mainstay of his career.

I'd have to disagree. I find it extremely hard to believe that he was in the league 10+ years, that the whole NFL scouting corps of the 32 NFL teams IN ADDITION TO all of the analysts involved could have overlooked all of his "special gifts."

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:59 am

VetSkinsFan wrote:I'd have to disagree. I find it extremely hard to believe that he was in the league 10+ years, that the whole NFL scouting corps of the 32 NFL teams IN ADDITION TO all of the analysts involved could have overlooked all of his "special gifts."

Disagree all you want, what I witnessed last year was a QB coming off the shelf leading a broken team into the playoffs.

-A QB who hasn't played in 10 years...

-A QB who had hardly worked with the starting lineup until 2007.

-Its known that during the season that the starter gets 99.99999% of the reps during the season.

Nobody is calling him Peyton or Marino... We're simply saying that he could have started for a team and been a successful QB. Todd Collins proved the doubters/haters wrong and thats why he received the publicity he did last year from the likes of ESPN, SI...etc.

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:03 am

Weak arm? Old QB? Sound familiar?

Collins is all that Brunell would have been for this team under Saunders, had the Good Lord blessed him with more height.

It's too bad Collins folded under pressure in Seattle. Otherwise, we would have hoisted the Lombardi in February instead of the Gints.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:13 am

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:Weak arm? Old QB? Sound familiar?

Collins is all that Brunell would have been for this team under Saunders, had the Good Lord blessed him with more height.

It's too bad Collins folded under pressure in Seattle. Otherwise, we would have hoisted the Lombardi in February instead of the Gints.

Folded? Considering the circumstances, he went just as far as noodle arm MB and under 10x worse circumstances.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:Weak arm? Old QB? Sound familiar?

Collins is all that Brunell would have been for this team under Saunders, had the Good Lord blessed him with more height.

It's too bad Collins folded under pressure in Seattle. Otherwise, we would have hoisted the Lombardi in February instead of the Gints.

Folded? Considering the circumstances, he went just as far as noodle arm MB and under 10x worse circumstances.

...and both scenerios ended the same way. The Reskins sitting at home with popcorn and beer watching the Super Bowl....

yupchagee · Post by **yupchagee** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:27 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:Weak arm? Old QB? Sound familiar?

Collins is all that Brunell would have been for this team under Saunders, had the Good Lord blessed him with more height.

It's too bad Collins folded under pressure in Seattle. Otherwise, we would have hoisted the Lombardi in February instead of the Gints.

Folded? Considering the circumstances, he went just as far as noodle arm MB and under 10x worse circumstances.

...and both scenerios ended the same way. The Reskins sitting at home with popcorn and beer watching the Super Bowl....

Just like 29 other teams. Winning takes more than a QB.

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:25 pm

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:Weak arm? Old QB? Sound familiar?

Collins is all that Brunell would have been for this team under Saunders, had the Good Lord blessed him with more height.

It's too bad Collins folded under pressure in Seattle. Otherwise, we would have hoisted the Lombardi in February instead of the Gints.

Folded under pressure?? Please. The guy played as well as anyone could expect with someone in his face every play. If you check the stats, I think Collins stats were around 260 yards and 2 TD's...better than Hasselbeck, and extraordinary considering the pressure. Based on what I saw of Campbell last year, he would have been a disaster under that type of pressure with his slow reads and release.

This "Jason needs time to learn the system" is a sad tune we've been listening to for the past two years. Though I predict now that the Z-Man isn't going to be as patient with him as the previous administration.

We are likely to see Collins in action with a healthy Campbell on the sideline if JC continues to play the way he did last year. Half a season and no TD's to WR's ? That was pathetic.

And in reality, I'm not sure Campbell has what it takes for a WC offense. He's too slow.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:56 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:Weak arm? Old QB? Sound familiar?

Collins is all that Brunell would have been for this team under Saunders, had the Good Lord blessed him with more height.

It's too bad Collins folded under pressure in Seattle. Otherwise, we would have hoisted the Lombardi in February instead of the Gints.

Folded? Considering the circumstances, he went just as far as noodle arm MB and under 10x worse circumstances.

...and both scenerios ended the same way. The Reskins sitting at home with popcorn and beer watching the Super Bowl....

Irrelevant, that wasn't the point that I was trying to make.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:18 pm

CooleyAsIce wrote:Apparently, the guy is so smart it's ridiculous. I've read stories about him memorizing game plans in one night.

Well he DID go to Michigan.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:03 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
CooleyAsIce wrote:Apparently, the guy is so smart it's ridiculous. I've read stories about him memorizing game plans in one night.

Well he DID go to Michigan.

All the more astonishing. Amazing accomplishment for one so handicapped.

O:)

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:34 pm

Countertrey wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
CooleyAsIce wrote:Apparently, the guy is so smart it's ridiculous. I've read stories about him memorizing game plans in one night.

Well he DID go to Michigan.

All the more astonishing. Amazing accomplishment for one so handicapped.

I got nothing. No come back. I'm drawing a complete and utter blank. A couple thoughts like you meant Michigan State came to mind but I think that's a lame come back myself, so I'm not using it. Saying Michigan's not a handicap is worse. My next thought was, "oh yeah..." But I got no follow up to that either. I'll get back to you if something comes to me later...

yupchagee · Post by **yupchagee** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:19 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
CooleyAsIce wrote:Apparently, the guy is so smart it's ridiculous. I've read stories about him memorizing game plans in one night.

Well he DID go to Michigan.

All the more astonishing. Amazing accomplishment for one so handicapped.

I got nothing. No come back. I'm drawing a complete and utter blank. A couple thoughts like you meant Michigan State came to mind but I think that's a lame come back myself, so I'm not using it. Saying Michigan's not a handicap is worse. My next thought was, "oh yeah..." But I got no follow up to that either. I'll get back to you if something comes to me later...

Methinks you prooved CY's point!

yupchagee · Post by **yupchagee** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:19 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
CooleyAsIce wrote:Apparently, the guy is so smart it's ridiculous. I've read stories about him memorizing game plans in one night.

Well he DID go to Michigan.

All the more astonishing. Amazing accomplishment for one so handicapped.

I got nothing. No come back. I'm drawing a complete and utter blank. A couple thoughts like you meant Michigan State came to mind but I think that's a lame come back myself, so I'm not using it. Saying Michigan's not a handicap is worse. My next thought was, "oh yeah..." But I got no follow up to that either. I'll get back to you if something comes to me later...

Methinks you prooved CT's point!

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:37 pm

yupchagee wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
CooleyAsIce wrote:Apparently, the guy is so smart it's ridiculous. I've read stories about him memorizing game plans in one night.

Well he DID go to Michigan.

All the more astonishing. Amazing accomplishment for one so handicapped.

I got nothing. No come back. I'm drawing a complete and utter blank. A couple thoughts like you meant Michigan State came to mind but I think that's a lame come back myself, so I'm not using it. Saying Michigan's not a handicap is worse. My next thought was, "oh yeah..." But I got no follow up to that either. I'll get back to you if something comes to me later...

Methinks you prooved CY's point!

Complete and utter devastation... that is what you are looking at, folks. Maybe we used a little too much C-4. Ooops!