Negative Comments Concerning Redskin Organization

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:37 am

ARE wasn't such a bad acquisition. Maybe a little overpaid, but he's been a solid contributor on the 'skins.

roybus14 · Post by **roybus14** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:16 am

chiefhog44 wrote:Fan's have also got to realize that there's a learning curve with owning a sports team. It's not something that many people just jump into a have immediate success, or success at all. So for all the early mistakes that fans are holding onto, cut him a break, he's learning.

As smart of a business man this guy is, he still has not figured out since day one of owning this team that he has to put "NFL Football" front office people. That's my only knock on this dude right now. He spends money and has good intentions but he's making bad decisions in the front office and needs to step back and let real football people run the front office. He has plenty of examples around him in the Giants, Patriots, Colts, Chargers, etc. If he can't find football people to take the job, then he should come out and say it. That way, fans such as myself won't criticize him as much. If nobody wants to come here and GM this team after he has made the effort to bring them in, then it is what it is.

Besides, how much longer should an owner realistically have to learn??? After all, he's not trying to learn a 700 page playbook....

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:31 am

roybus14 wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:Fan's have also got to realize that there's a learning curve with owning a sports team. It's not something that many people just jump into a have immediate success, or success at all. So for all the early mistakes that fans are holding onto, cut him a break, he's learning.

As smart of a business man this guy is, he still has not figured out since day one of owning this team that he has to put "NFL Football" front office people. That's my only knock on this dude right now. He spends money and has good intentions but he's making bad decisions in the front office and needs to step back and let real football people run the front office. He has plenty of examples around him in the Giants, Patriots, Colts, Chargers, etc. If he can't find football people to take the job, then he should come out and say it. That way, fans such as myself won't criticize him as much. If nobody wants to come here and GM this team after he has made the effort to bring them in, then it is what it is.

Besides, how much longer should an owner realistically have to learn??? After all, he's not trying to learn a 700 page playbook....

Good point Roy.. NFL Football experience wanted, apply within..

GSPODS · Post by **GSPODS** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:37 am

Snyder is rapidly becoming the second generation of Al Davis.

Negative enough?

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:17 am

Snyder will show us soon whether he has learned from his experiences of the past. He initially made many mistakes but hopefully the recent years have taught him some things.

I'm willing to give him a couple more months to show if his recent actions (or more importantly, his inactions) will continue.
His handling of the coaching change was very worrying but if he lets the guys in place do their jobs and behaves as he has recently then I will be a lot happier.

We may need some time for the new coaches to get things going BUT Snyder needs to fire Cerrato soon. No matter what happens this year, I just wish he would hire a GM and fire Cerrato. I don't care if Cerrato finds 6 players this year that are all MVP candidates - he has been a huge mistake and needs to go as soon as possible, nothing he does (or the team does because of him) can make up for the mistakes, NOTHING.

I have nothing against Snyder personally - I do not care about how much he charges because we all have choices - I do not care how good a businessman he is - I only care about what and how he does as far as the team (players and coaches) are concerned.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:45 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:I think that free agency and the draft will tell us a lot about how much Snyder has really learned over the past few years.

That's where I sit on this matter.

I can't tell if he learned anything from Gibbs, until we see how he acts in FA and the draft.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:18 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:ARE wasn't such a bad acquisition. Maybe a little overpaid, but he's been a solid contributor on the 'skins.

ARE hasn't even close to being worth the money that we spent on him. Statistically he has been one of the worst punter returners in the NFL over the last two seasons and has been mediocre as a receiver.

chiefhog44 · Post by **chiefhog44** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:26 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Yea, he's made some mistakes, but he's learning.

The coaching search was unorganized, as evidenced by hiring Zorn to be the OC and then a week later making him the HC. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that before.

I felt this way too, but why was it unorganized? Because took his time, couldn't find a coach among a list of crap candidates, and he ended up selecting the most respected up and coming coaches in the league? Just because you've never seen it before makes it unorganized? What's the guy to do, hire Fassell so it doesn't seem unorganized?

RedskinsFreak · Post by **RedskinsFreak** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:03 pm

I'm still looking for one example of football success -- on any level -- for which Cerrato was primarily responsible.

May his kid's Pop Warner team ....

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:23 pm

chiefhog44 wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
Yea, he's made some mistakes, but he's learning.

The coaching search was unorganized, as evidenced by hiring Zorn to be the OC and then a week later making him the HC. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that before.

I felt this way too, but why was it unorganized? Because took his time, couldn't find a coach among a list of crap candidates, and he ended up selecting the most respected up and coming coaches in the league? Just because you've never seen it before makes it unorganized? What's the guy to do, hire Fassell so it doesn't seem unorganized?

This has been argued many times on this board and I don't want to get into it all over it, but a perfect example of the lack of organization is the Byner situation. They hired Zorn, knowing that they would be switching to a West Coast offense. Despite knowing this, they extended an offer to Byner. Then all of a sudden Zorn is the HC, now he wants to bring in his own people (like any new HC would want), and all of a sudden Byner's offer is gone. Sorry, but that isn't very organized.

chiefhog44 · Post by **chiefhog44** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:05 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
Yea, he's made some mistakes, but he's learning.

The coaching search was unorganized, as evidenced by hiring Zorn to be the OC and then a week later making him the HC. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that before.

I felt this way too, but why was it unorganized? Because took his time, couldn't find a coach among a list of crap candidates, and he ended up selecting the most respected up and coming coaches in the league? Just because you've never seen it before makes it unorganized? What's the guy to do, hire Fassell so it doesn't seem unorganized?

This has been argued many times on this board and I don't want to get into it all over it, but a perfect example of the lack of organization is the Byner situation. They hired Zorn, knowing that they would be switching to a West Coast offense. Despite knowing this, they extended an offer to Byner. Then all of a sudden Zorn is the HC, now he wants to bring in his own people (like any new HC would want), and all of a sudden Byner's offer is gone. Sorry, but that isn't very organized.

They offered Byner a contract and he went down to interview with the Bucs. When he found out that the Bucs didn't want him, he came back up and the offer was no longer on the table. Offers are not good for life. Come on, you should know that.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:25 am

chiefhog44 wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
Yea, he's made some mistakes, but he's learning.

The coaching search was unorganized, as evidenced by hiring Zorn to be the OC and then a week later making him the HC. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that before.

I felt this way too, but why was it unorganized? Because took his time, couldn't find a coach among a list of crap candidates, and he ended up selecting the most respected up and coming coaches in the league? Just because you've never seen it before makes it unorganized? What's the guy to do, hire Fassell so it doesn't seem unorganized?

This has been argued many times on this board and I don't want to get into it all over it, but a perfect example of the lack of organization is the Byner situation. They hired Zorn, knowing that they would be switching to a West Coast offense. Despite knowing this, they extended an offer to Byner. Then all of a sudden Zorn is the HC, now he wants to bring in his own people (like any new HC would want), and all of a sudden Byner's offer is gone. Sorry, but that isn't very organized.

They offered Byner a contract and he went down to interview with the Bucs. When he found out that the Bucs didn't want him, he came back up and the offer was no longer on the table. Offers are not good for life. Come on, you should know that.

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that when Zorn was hired they knew we were going to be a West Coast team. They didn't offer Byner a contract until AFTER Zorn was named the offensive coordinator. Knowing that we were going in a different direction offensively, why even offer Byner a contract? Zorn obviously wanted to bring in his own rb coach, so why did Snyder/Vinny offer Byner? It didn't make sense at all. They never should have offered Byner a contract until after the HC was in place. The situation with him is a perfect example of why you don't go hiring coordinators and assistants BEFORE you have a head coach. What would they have done if Byner had originally accepted the offer? Fired Byner a week later or forced Zorn have somebody other than who he wanted for his rb coach?

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:50 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:ARE wasn't such a bad acquisition. Maybe a little overpaid, but he's been a solid contributor on the 'skins.

ARE hasn't even close to being worth the money that we spent on him. Statistically he has been one of the worst punter returners in the NFL over the last two seasons and has been mediocre as a receiver.

The passing game as a whole was subpar at best. NOONE excelled, so I really don't think it's fair to hold ARE's performance, which was in line with Moss, both of which were hurt this season for multiple games, against him. I DO agree on the PR stance and I DO agree that he was overpaid. I think that with his salary adjustment, he's more in line with his output. I look forward to the next two years to see what the offense can put out.

I think that ARE will excel as a slot receiver IF we can get a solid #2. He is NOT a wideout and I don't think he ever was tagged as such. Time will tell I suppose.....

An afterthought: Would you rather have ARE's performance or Lloyd's performance :?:

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:32 am

No matter what happens with Snyder and the team the "reports" on how things are handled are always going to be interpreted by everyone both here and in the media to suit their own agenda.

Some here are never going to change and any reports that show Snyder in a good light regarding the team will never be portrayed with as much "fanfare" as the many "mistakes" or bad judgments are "interpreted" as "more of Snyder's stupidity" :shock:

by his detractors both here and in the media.

As I have said, I am of the opinion that Snyder is not nearly as bad as he was and may in fact be getting better at running the team and the FO. I think that he has changed BUT I still think the one key thing he needs to do which will really show how much he has learned is to get rid of Cerrato and bring in a GM - this GM must also have the same support to get the job done that Cerrato has now. - Unfortunately - that is most likely, a very remote possibility :cry:

IF there is one long term benefit to Cerrato's recent position change it is now a "job" where if he does not do well he can be let go :wink:

IMO - no matter how well Cerrato handles the upcoming FA market and the draft - he should still be fired :lol:

roybus14 · Post by **roybus14** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:47 am

SkinsJock wrote:No matter what happens with Snyder and the team the "reports" on how things are handled are always going to be interpreted by everyone both here and in the media to suit their own agenda.

Some here are never going to change and any reports that show Snyder in a good light regarding the team will never be portrayed with as much "fanfare" as the many "mistakes" or bad judgments are "interpreted" as "more of Snyder's stupidity" by his detractors both here and in the media.

As I have said, I am of the opinion that Snyder is not nearly as bad as he was and may in fact be getting better at running the team and the FO. I think that he has changed BUT I still think the one key thing he needs to do which will really show how much he has learned is to get rid of Cerrato and bring in a GM - this GM must also have the same support to get the job done that Cerrato has now. - Unfortunately - that is most likely, a very remote possibility

IF there is one long term benefit to Cerrato's recent position change it is now a "job" where if he does not do well he can be let go
IMO - no matter how well Cerrato handles the upcoming FA market and the draft - he should still be fired

Your whole point can be summed up in a few short words. "This team needs a qualified front office." Just because you are the owner of a team does not mean you are qualified to make front office decisions. Look at how this whole HC thing was handled. One of things that hurts this ownership is all of this secrecy that goes on at Redskins Park. Fans like us only have to speculate, wonder, imagine, etc. what's going on there because everything over there is so hush-hush.

Time will tell though. I don't have anything against Jim Zorn. I thought he was a pretty good player when he teamed with Largent in Seattle but I don't have anything to go on as far as his HC experience and what he can and cannot do in that position. Time will tell though.

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:35 am

Well, I guess this beats having a QB controversy. Sorta.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:11 pm

SkinsJock wrote:No matter what happens with Snyder and the team the "reports" on how things are handled are always going to be interpreted by everyone both here and in the media to suit their own agenda.

Some here are never going to change and any reports that show Snyder in a good light regarding the team will never be portrayed with as much "fanfare" as the many "mistakes" or bad judgments are "interpreted" as "more of Snyder's stupidity" by his detractors both here and in the media.

This can be summed up even easier. You just described an "opinion." That's all we have is an "opinion" since we're not directly involved in this situation. Twist it, sugar coat it, put it in neat, long winded description, it's still the same; an "opinion."

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:11 pm

SkinsJock wrote:No matter what happens with Snyder and the team the "reports" on how things are handled are always going to be interpreted by everyone both here and in the media to suit their own agenda.

Some here are never going to change and any reports that show Snyder in a good light regarding the team will never be portrayed with as much "fanfare" as the many "mistakes" or bad judgments are "interpreted" as "more of Snyder's stupidity" by his detractors both here and in the media.

This can be summed up even easier. You just described an "opinion." That's all we have is an "opinion" since we're not directly involved in this situation. Twist it, sugar coat it, put it in neat, long winded description, it's still the same; an "opinion."

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:14 pm

This team will always be over analyzed by the fans and especially the media because it is one of the top (in my opinion, the best) sports franchise in the world. NO matter who controls this team they will be inordinately scrutinized and mostly criticized for everything that goes on here. If we were to be constantly winning the criticism would still be we need to win more - nothing would be good enough for most critics of this team because it is the Washington Redskins and it is located in Washington DC :celebrate:

Even a bad Washington Redskins team is still a better team than most other NFL teams :wink:

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:26 pm

IF you find it too hard to take being a fan you can always choose to occupy your leisure time and energy on something else - like being a coach of a kids team or whatever makes you happy :roll:

- as frustrating as it might be sometimes I will never give up supporting and hoping for better times again - it sure beats whining and moaning about everything. :wink:

plus all the complaining has seemed to have little to no effect in my opinion. :lol:

Some call it homerism but to me its just being a Redskins' fan during a down time

nobody can convince me we are suddenly not competitive after what we saw our team do the last 4 weeks of the season and 2 of those victories were against the pukes and the stupid giants

nobody can convince me we cannot win our division after what I saw happen in the NFC playoffs

nobody can convince me we do not have as good a chance as most when the really bad giants dominate a team that everyone expected to win and was considered by most knowledgeable NFL people as possibly the greatest team EVER :shock:

We just need a GM instead of Cerrato - Snyder will suddenly be a genius :lol: