Are you really a "True" Fan?

[Fios]

I am a false prophet, does that count?

[skinsfan#33]

I don't care if you're a "true" fan or not. You have to look at your self in the mirror. What I don't like is how the mood of some of the people that post here swings like a 13 year girl during her first few "cycles".

It is just so pathetic! I mean everyone here was hopeful about next year before Gibbs retired and in the month since the only thing that has happened is Snyder conducted a HC search and waited to interview everyone on his original list. During the mean time he hired one person. Zorn. And was so impressed w/him he eventually ended up giving him the HC job.

What is so bad about that? I have no idea if Zorn will be good, great, or stink the place up and neither does anyone else.

I told someone that they were crazy during the ride to the Chicago game. The guy I was riding w/wasn't a Skins fan and is in the Navy like me. He said out of the several NFL towns he had been around he said that the Skins fans are the most fair weather fans he had ever seen. Not that they would not come to the games, but they turned negative faster than any other fans. I told him he was crazy.

After this past month or so I have changed my mind. He was absolutely right. There has been so much ridiculous whining and ranting since Gibbs stepped down that I am ashamed of how these so called "fan" have acted!

If this strikes a nerve in you, good! That means there is hope. But if you are still self righteous and still think the sky is falling then there truly is no hope for you.

Either way, I am saddened by how fair weathered the Skins' "fans" really are. I don't know if I will ever be able to argue that we aren't any more to anyone.

Just sad!

[VetSkinsFan]

I have waited for the news of our new coach, and have read nothing but negative comments about how our owner runs his team. Is it the high tech era that allows people to think they actually know what and why things are happening? I remember not knowing anything except when the nightly news made the official announcment. I am really not concerned about what some individuals "think" about what is going to happen. I just look forward to the guys who actually play,coach or LOVE the Redskins. I love my SKINS whether they lose or win. I have been thru the thick and thin. It just aggravates me all I hear is the negativty. Please lets just show positive attitudes. Thanks

I'm with you dude. I'm tired of the negative B.S. We need to be patient and actually give Dan Snyder a chance

How many 'chances' can you give someone before you actually have an opinion of them? I've seen enough of Danny to have an opinion as a lot of people have. If you choose to be part of the herd, then do so, but do not criticize others for having their own opinion contrary to yours.

Everyone I've talked to at work seem to be of the same opinion: Danny's playing fantasy football with the Washington Redskins, dragging our good name through the mud. He needs to take a step back and make sound business decisions as he's done to make his money. This moneypot he's buoght will become less lucrative soon if he keeps dragging it down and toying with it like a hobby.


As for being a 'true fan,' who makes the decision that any one individual is more of a 'fan' than others??! We all have our own opinions and ideals of what makes us and others 'true fans.' You think because I come here and vent (maybe moreso than some people think is reasonable) with people with a like interest and discuss what I've known and loved for more than 20 years, that I'm not a true fan?? You're sadly mistaken, sir. My two boys(7yo and 2mo) even got their Christmas picture in Redskins garb. Baby's 1st Christmas is Redskins...tell me I'm not a fan.......

First off I'm was not being critical of anyone. However the nagative B.S. is going overboard. There are alot worse owners in the league then Dan Snyder. Dan Snyder has made mistakes like everyone else has in their lifetime. Our you without mistakes? Well, give Dan Snyder a break. Dan Snyder did a wonderful job in hiring Joe Gibbs and Joe Gibbs made this team much better then when he came here. Its not Dan Snyder fault that Gibbs retired. Dan Snyder has tried to make this team better. What, do you want Dan Snyder to go out there and play to? The coaches tell Dan Snyder I want this player or I want that player and then Snyder goes out there and gets the player the coaches want and then he signs the check.
GW is a perfect example he wanted Adam Archuleta and we all know whan happened. Dan Snyder signed the check and paid the man the money and what happened? By next year they had to get rid of him. So, why don't we blame the coaches? Dan Snyder has given our coaches full control to say hey I want him or I want this dude, there was a time when we had Marty Schottenheimer and Dan Snyder wanted Santana Moss and Snyder made that clear with Marty but what did Marty do he drafted Rod Gardner instead. Well even know that Snyder wasn't happy about it he still paid the man and now where is Rod Gardner? Well, Dan Snyder finally got Santana Moss.

The owner should entrust the HC he picks out to run the day to day operations for the NFL team. Isn't that what Vinny and the HC and the rest of the coaching staff is for? I've never not blamed the coaching staff. In fact, I think I was chastised for being overly critical of the coaching staff this year. It DOES seem that Danny boy, by a lot more than just me, meddles in more than he really should. I guess hiring a coaching staff before hiring the HC is the genius that is Danny, too. I guess HC don't need THEIR OWN coaching staff to be successful, they just need to work with what's given to them.

If anyone chooses to be blindly supportive of the 'skins and have no opinion except GO SKINS, then go ahead. I will continue to discuss my opinions, whether negative or positive, with my fellow 'skins fans. If any individual thinks that any of us are 'going overboard', then use your given rights to abstain from such 'negative' threads from 'negative people.'

[Chris Luva Luva]

I am a false prophet, does that count?

You are the arbiter of all things good and beautiful. Positive knowledge spills from your lid, truth pours from your spout. Your condensation is love.

[jeremyroyce]

I have waited for the news of our new coach, and have read nothing but negative comments about how our owner runs his team. Is it the high tech era that allows people to think they actually know what and why things are happening? I remember not knowing anything except when the nightly news made the official announcment. I am really not concerned about what some individuals "think" about what is going to happen. I just look forward to the guys who actually play,coach or LOVE the Redskins. I love my SKINS whether they lose or win. I have been thru the thick and thin. It just aggravates me all I hear is the negativty. Please lets just show positive attitudes. Thanks

I'm with you dude. I'm tired of the negative B.S. We need to be patient and actually give Dan Snyder a chance

How many 'chances' can you give someone before you actually have an opinion of them? I've seen enough of Danny to have an opinion as a lot of people have. If you choose to be part of the herd, then do so, but do not criticize others for having their own opinion contrary to yours.

Everyone I've talked to at work seem to be of the same opinion: Danny's playing fantasy football with the Washington Redskins, dragging our good name through the mud. He needs to take a step back and make sound business decisions as he's done to make his money. This moneypot he's buoght will become less lucrative soon if he keeps dragging it down and toying with it like a hobby.


As for being a 'true fan,' who makes the decision that any one individual is more of a 'fan' than others??! We all have our own opinions and ideals of what makes us and others 'true fans.' You think because I come here and vent (maybe moreso than some people think is reasonable) with people with a like interest and discuss what I've known and loved for more than 20 years, that I'm not a true fan?? You're sadly mistaken, sir. My two boys(7yo and 2mo) even got their Christmas picture in Redskins garb. Baby's 1st Christmas is Redskins...tell me I'm not a fan.......

First off I'm was not being critical of anyone. However the nagative B.S. is going overboard. There are alot worse owners in the league then Dan Snyder. Dan Snyder has made mistakes like everyone else has in their lifetime. Our you without mistakes? Well, give Dan Snyder a break. Dan Snyder did a wonderful job in hiring Joe Gibbs and Joe Gibbs made this team much better then when he came here. Its not Dan Snyder fault that Gibbs retired. Dan Snyder has tried to make this team better. What, do you want Dan Snyder to go out there and play to? The coaches tell Dan Snyder I want this player or I want that player and then Snyder goes out there and gets the player the coaches want and then he signs the check.
GW is a perfect example he wanted Adam Archuleta and we all know whan happened. Dan Snyder signed the check and paid the man the money and what happened? By next year they had to get rid of him. So, why don't we blame the coaches? Dan Snyder has given our coaches full control to say hey I want him or I want this dude, there was a time when we had Marty Schottenheimer and Dan Snyder wanted Santana Moss and Snyder made that clear with Marty but what did Marty do he drafted Rod Gardner instead. Well even know that Snyder wasn't happy about it he still paid the man and now where is Rod Gardner? Well, Dan Snyder finally got Santana Moss.

The owner should entrust the HC he picks out to run the day to day operations for the NFL team. Isn't that what Vinny and the HC and the rest of the coaching staff is for? I've never not blamed the coaching staff. In fact, I think I was chastised for being overly critical of the coaching staff this year. It DOES seem that Danny boy, by a lot more than just me, meddles in more than he really should. I guess hiring a coaching staff before hiring the HC is the genius that is Danny, too. I guess HC don't need THEIR OWN coaching staff to be successful, they just need to work with what's given to them.

If anyone chooses to be blindly supportive of the 'skins and have no opinion except GO SKINS, then go ahead. I will continue to discuss my opinions, whether negative or positive, with my fellow 'skins fans. If any individual thinks that any of us are 'going overboard', then use your given rights to abstain from such 'negative' threads from 'negative people.'

I'm not saying that people can't voice their opinions. But when you have a million threads and they all have to do with negativity towards Daniel Snyder then it gets old. I never said anything about people not being able to discuss things about the Redskins other then Go Redskins all I'm saying is get off Dan Snyders back give the man a break. If people can't stand Dan Snyder and they are going to waste their time complaining and flooding the message boards about him then maybe its time to find another team and move on.

[SkinsFreak]

I am a false prophet, does that count?

You are the arbiter of all things good and beautiful. Positive knowledge spills from your lid, truth pours from your spout. Your condensation is love.

I'm starting to wonder about you two.

[yupchagee]

I am a false prophet, does that count?

A false profit? Does that make you a loss?

[VetSkinsFan]

I'm not saying that people can't voice their opinions. But when you have a million threads and they all have to do with negativity towards Daniel Snyder then it gets old. I never said anything about people not being able to discuss things about the Redskins other then Go Redskins all I'm saying is get off Dan Snyders back give the man a break. If people can't stand Dan Snyder and they are going to waste their time b**chin and complaining and flooding the message boards about him then maybe its time to find another team and move on.

I'm a 2nd gen 'skins fan raising two 3rd gen 'skins fans. I was born here, I went to school here, and I came back here after I got out of the Army after 9 years. Just because Dan is the owner, does not mean he gets a free ride. I've followed the 'skins longer than I can remember and I will continue, much like the majority here, to follow my beloved 'skins. Does that mean blind obedience with no criticism? Heck no! If any individual dislikes the tone that some posters or some boards, said individual has the right, the CHOICE, to abstain from the posters or boards that so offend them. That's the beauty of the thing, THE CHOICE!!!!!! To whine about others whining puts ALL whiners in the same category IMO.....

[jeremyroyce]

I'm a 2nd gen 'skins fan raising two 3rd gen 'skins fans. I was born here, I went to school here, and I came back here after I got out of the Army after 9 years. Just because Dan is the owner, does not mean he gets a free ride. I've followed the 'skins longer than I can remember and I will continue, much like the majority here, to follow my beloved 'skins. Does that mean blind obedience with no criticism? Heck no! If any individual dislikes the tone that some posters or some boards, said individual has the right, the CHOICE, to abstain from the posters or boards that so offend them. That's the beauty of the thing, THE CHOICE!!!!!! To whine about others whining puts ALL whiners in the same category IMO.....

I never said that Dan should get a free ride. Dan has made mistakes but he is trying to make this team better. Would you rather have an owner that moves his team to another city and renames the team and then you don't have what you grew up watching?

[welch]

Dan has made mistakes but he is trying to make this team better. Would you rather have an owner that moves his team to another city and renames the team and then you don't have what you grew up watching?

I would rather have an owner who hires a competent team president and general manager, and who then restricts himself to being an owner.

Putting it simply: Cooke did it right, the Mara family has almost always done it right, and Snyder does it wrong.

[skinsfan#33]

Dan has made mistakes but he is trying to make this team better. Would you rather have an owner that moves his team to another city and renames the team and then you don't have what you grew up watching?

I would rather have an owner who hires a competent team president and general manager, and who then restricts himself to being an owner.

Putting it simply: Cooke did it right, the Mara family has almost always done it right, and Snyder does it wrong.

Here is a novel fact that most Skins' fans over look during their Snyder bashing.

The first six years of Snyder's ownership were more succesful than the last six of the Cooke family.

Nit pick and make any excuses you want the records speak fof themself.

Snyder is learning and not doing any worse then when John Cooke ran the team.

[Snout]

Dan has made mistakes but he is trying to make this team better. Would you rather have an owner that moves his team to another city and renames the team and then you don't have what you grew up watching?

I would rather have an owner who hires a competent team president and general manager, and who then restricts himself to being an owner.

Putting it simply: Cooke did it right, the Mara family has almost always done it right, and Snyder does it wrong.

Here is a novel fact that most Skins' fans over look during their Snyder bashing.

The first six years of Snyder's ownership were more succesful than the last six of the Cooke family.

Nit pick and make any excuses you want the records speak fof themself.

Snyder is learning and not doing any worse then when John Cooke ran the team.

Not only that, but Jack Kent Cooke first invested in the team in 1961, did not become majority owner until 1974, and did not win a Superbowl until 1983. That was a long wait for anyone who was paying attention. What's more, Cooke did not "restrict himself to being an owner". He was involved in personnel decisions and always cast the tiebreaking vote.

[welch]

Not only that, but Jack Kent Cooke first invested in the team in 1961, did not become majority owner until 1974, and did not win a Superbowl until 1983. That was a long wait for anyone who was paying attention. What's more, Cooke did not "restrict himself to being an owner". He was involved in personnel decisions and always cast the tiebreaking vote.

Some misconceptions, I think.

1. The Redskins rebuilt after new management took over the team in 1963, later having their first winning season in about a dozen years (1956 - 1969); then becoming a consistent winner in the 1970's, going to the playoffs about four times in an era when only four teams per conference went.. That was big stuff.

No one thought that the Redskins were failures because they did not win the SB during that stretch.

2. If Joe Gibbs had not coached the Redskins these last four years, is Snyder so accomplished? Oh, and it is incredible how many frequent posters sneered at Gibbs even while he took the fragments of a team, given by Snyder and Spurrier, and built them into playoff contenders


3. Looking carefully at who owned the Redskins, who ran them, and how:

- George Preston Marshall, showman, loudmouth, founder of the permanent NFL, racist, ran the team until he suffered a stroke in 1963. Marshall, like Snyder, was the front office. He selected Sammy Baugh, sensing that Baugh's bullet-style passing would make a more interesting game. He also persuaded the other owners to change the "five-yard" rule, so passers could be m ore effective. The forward pass became a part of the normal offense, rather than a piece of desperation. That said, Marshall also fired all his coaches, drafted on his marketing whims, and proudly refused to accept black football players. He skipped Jim Brown, even though the great Maryland coach, Jim Tatum, called Brown "The greatest football player I have ever seen".

- Edward Bennett Williams persuaded Harry Wismer to sell his roughly 25% share in the team to himself and to Jack Kent Cooke. Wismer got about $250,000, which he needed to fund his New York franchise in the AFL, the Titans/Jets.

- Williams had power-of-attorney over the Marshall estate, and ran the team until Cooke got divorced and had to leave Los Angeles about 1978. During that time, Williams picked the coach/GM, and provided the money -- the annual Redskin profits that Marshall had been hiding. Williams used part of the profits to buy back Marshall's shares, so Marshall's sons owned almost nothng of the team when GPM died in 1969. Sleazy lawyering, but Williams made the Redskins a modern team.

- Williams hired Otto Graham to run the team, replacing "Toot", who had no use for the run game or defense, with Vince Lombardi. After Lombardi died (skipping the interim Bill Austin year), Williams hired George Allen as HC and GM. Allen, like Lombardi and Graham, made the decisions.

- When Allen took a job with the Rams, Williams hired the Bears cvoach, and Redskin hero, Jack Pardee. That year, Coocke came east, and hired Bobby Beathard as GM. Williams bought the Baltimore baseball team.

- Beathard and Pardee, and then Beathard and Gibbs, and later Casserly and Gibbs ran the Redskins.

- Cooke sat in his owners box, entertained celebrities, made speeches when he received the SB trophy, and, at most, acted as referee between Gibbs and the GMs when, sometimes, they disagreed. Cooke did not select players; under Plan B, he provided money so Carlie Casserly could sign other team's expensive reserves, but Cooke never pretended to be more than the king who selected his principal ministers, and let them work. That's how it ought to be done.

To repeat myself, Snyder likes to dress up in Redskin jackets, be flown around in a Redskin plane, play at being a football man. He's not. That's dangerous and sad.

I call it "sad" because I lived through the last Marshall years, and they were miserable times for Redskin fans.

[Countertrey]

Some misconceptions, I think.

The Redskins Gospel according to Welch...






It is right to give glory to the Gibbs.

[Irn-Bru]

I always love hearing the good news.

[welch]

...just back from a week at a "sales kickoff" in Europe, so I'm still on European time. I start writing about the Redskins and I'm too sleepy to shut up, and too off-kilter to go to sleep!