Al Saunders to St. Louis

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:08 pm

Comcast Sportsnight just said that Saunders to St. Louis is done and they are just working out the details of the contract.

Jeremy81 · Post by **Jeremy81** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:24 pm

i wish him the best. i think he was done wrong here and wasn't given and fair opportunity or enough time to showcase his play book or his play calling

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:26 pm

Jeremy81 wrote:i wish him the best. i think he was done wrong here and wasn't given and fair opportunity or enough time to showcase his play book or his play calling

I agree. St. Louis knows first hand what he can do and they acted very quickly in locking him up. Kind of crazy how we paid him all this money but didn't really let him do his thing. JLC had a blog the other day talking about how Saunders and Lazor were the odd men out among the offensive staff.

Haven · Post by **Haven** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:40 pm

Too bad about him leaving, but yeah I wish 'im luck at St. Lou!

HardDawg · Post by **HardDawg** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:46 pm

Thanks Al! I for one will miss ya. I wish him all the best!

Snout · Post by **Snout** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:51 am

Jeremy81 wrote:i wish him the best. i think he was done wrong here and wasn't given and fair opportunity or enough time to showcase his play book or his play calling

We had too many cooks in the kitchen. Good luck to Al in St. Louis. I know that three years from now St. Louis will likely have a very potent offense . . .

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:46 am

Making a change between a proven and successful offensive coordinator with a winning track record wherever he has gone in the NFL for an unproven guy who has never been an offensive coordinator and whose play calling abilities go back to the time when he was a losing QB with the Seahawks ...

It is not as if anybody can guarantee the success of one and the failure of the other but this is a big gamble.

Good luck to Al Saunders !!!

Sir_Monk · Post by **Sir_Monk** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:46 am

any word if G. Williams is going to coach 'em up in the 'Lou next season?

Good luck to Al Saunders, I wanted to see him stay around afew more seasons.

roybus14 · Post by **roybus14** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:50 am

I wish Al the best of luck in St. Louie and I know that they will let him do his thing. It's a real shame that he was not allowed to give us what he gave the Chiefs for five years and it appears that the insanity that is the Redskins Front Office still continues.

I am willing to bet that the Rams will pick up his offense alot faster than we did hear if he is given full control (which I suspect he will) there. He's getting an offense that has a stud at RB and two proven veteran WRs (Holt and Bruce). If he can get the line to keep Bulger upright, they will flourish.

Wow, I'm talking about what another team can with Al on this board.... Damn.....

jeremyroyce · Post by **jeremyroyce** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:07 pm

Jeremy81 wrote:i wish him the best. i think he was done wrong here and wasn't given and fair opportunity or enough time to showcase his play book or his play calling

He was given 2 years and our offense SUCKED. He had enough time to drill the players in their head his 700 page playbook. There is no excuse we couldn't hold a lead if our life depended on it.

TeeterSalad · Post by **TeeterSalad** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:23 pm

jeremyroyce wrote:
Jeremy81 wrote:i wish him the best. i think he was done wrong here and wasn't given and fair opportunity or enough time to showcase his play book or his play calling

He was given 2 years and our offense SUCKED. He had enough time to drill the players in their head his 700 page playbook. There is no excuse we couldn't hold a lead if our life depended on it.

He had to work with Mark Brunell the first year he called the plays... :roll:

and J.C. wasn't developed enough by the 2nd year.
We saw his offense work when Todd Collins stepped in.

Anyway, good luck in St. Louis Al.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:26 pm

jeremyroyce wrote:
Jeremy81 wrote:i wish him the best. i think he was done wrong here and wasn't given and fair opportunity or enough time to showcase his play book or his play calling

He was given 2 years and our offense SUCKED. He had enough time to drill the players in their head his 700 page playbook. There is no excuse we couldn't hold a lead if our life depended on it.

I don't buy the the "Fan" and "media" propaganda that we went into a shell and got conservative in the second half or that Gibbs hand cuffed him.

The run/pass ratio wasn't significantly different in the second half, what was different was how the players executed the plays. Maybe that was how well the other team's D adjusted, maybe the Skins' players "tightened up", but the play calling was not significantly different.

I know I am going to get flamed and told I'm crazy, but unless someone can provide stats (other than what we scored) to back up the "conservative" claim, I am sticking w/the players just didn't get it done.

I wish Al all the best and I don't think he or Gibbs were the problem with our second half woes.

jeremyroyce · Post by **jeremyroyce** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:30 pm

TeeterSalad wrote:
jeremyroyce wrote:
Jeremy81 wrote:i wish him the best. i think he was done wrong here and wasn't given and fair opportunity or enough time to showcase his play book or his play calling

He was given 2 years and our offense SUCKED. He had enough time to drill the players in their head his 700 page playbook. There is no excuse we couldn't hold a lead if our life depended on it.

He had to work with Mark Brunell most of the first year
and J.C. wasn't developed enough by the 2nd year. We saw his offense work when Todd Collins stepped up.

Anyway, good luck in St. Louis Al.

It does not matter who was the QB. When he is getting paid almost head coach money his job is to produce and our offense actually starting to play football after Sean Taylor died. Before that there was no improvement. We have excellent receivers and there was no reason and no excuse why our offense should have SUCKED as much as it did. So, as alot of people say and I'm sure Snyder said, I would LOVE to say to Al Saunders good riddance.

SKINFAN · Post by **SKINFAN** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:35 pm

TeeterSalad wrote:
jeremyroyce wrote:
Jeremy81 wrote:i wish him the best. i think he was done wrong here and wasn't given and fair opportunity or enough time to showcase his play book or his play calling

He was given 2 years and our offense SUCKED. He had enough time to drill the players in their head his 700 page playbook. There is no excuse we couldn't hold a lead if our life depended on it.

He had to work with Mark Brunell the first year he called the plays...
and J.C. wasn't developed enough by the 2nd year.
We saw his offense work when Todd Collins stepped in.

Anyway, good luck in St. Louis Al.

Don't forget, TC had mostly 2nd string line working for him.

Kentucky Fried Hog · Post by **Kentucky Fried Hog** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:14 pm

So, Al to St. Louis, is TC next to follow him?

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:31 pm

Posted at 2:51 PM ET, 01/27/2008
Gregg And Al (Reunited in St. Louis, And It Feels So Good?)

Would not be surprised to see both of these back with new teams before the Redskins sort their search out.

Both are highly in demand. At least 4 teams contacted Williams shortly after he was released from his contract yesterday and he's expected to begin interviewing for jobs this week. Tennessee and St. Louis were already granted permission to speak to him, and several other teams have called since Williams was let go.

Several players called me today to say how shocked they were that Williams was gone, especially in light of the way the unit bonded in the aftermath of Sean Taylor's death, how much they loved playing for him. "It was a shock to me and the rest of my teammates," one veteran said. "That part is tough to take." Keeping it in-house with Blache helps, but it remains to be seen what's in store for long-time Gregg Williams coaches like Jerry Gray, Steve Jackson and Danny Smith.

The team is putting out the word they want everyone back, but if Williams leaves for another coordinator position some coaches could follow. And some of these staff members will be gone regardless in all likelihood.

As for Al, St. Louis is deep into talks with him for its vacant offensive coordinator position, but some league sources believe that if the Raiders head coaching job opens he could be a possibility there as well. Saunders would be a perfect fit in St. Louis, having been there during the glory years with Dick Vermeil.

Daniel Snyder was negative about the performance of Saunders and QB coach Bill Lazor to many people this off season and several sources involved in the hiring process believe they would be let go no matter who the coach was. (Yesterday the team confirmed that Lazor was fired, then un-confirmed it a few hours later, saying the next coach could pick his QB coach. As of this morning no one had the courtesy to tell Lazor one way or the other. The Redskins have trouble keeping things straight. Does Cerrato control the roster or doesn't he? Oh, the contradictions in that press release).

Anyway, I feel bad for Al because he was always handcuffed here by Gibbs and his long-time assistants. Team sources said Saunders was not even a part of some planning meetings and there were very much two factions within the offensive staff, players and coaches said, with Saunders, his son Bob and Lazor often the outsiders. Gibbs and his guys set the table and had strong feelings about offensive philosophy that did not always mesh with Al's system ... yet Al was the guy calling the plays.

And Al did call the plays, but Gibbs made it clear what he believed in, with the heavy emphasis on the run game in certain game plans, etc. Gibbs also picked the Qbs, etc. So again, the deck was stacked against Al. But I also think Saunders should have found a way to focus more on the assets of young QB, eliminate chunks of the playbook and focus more on what fit the personnel.

There was too much volume, veteran players said, with hybrids of West Coast stuff, Coryell stuff, power running. If you get it down, it's awesome. But these guys never got it fully.

"It's a great system, it really is," one veteran said. "We were getting there but we pulled from so many different things. So it takes time to grasp it all." Saunders's footprints are already in St. Louis, though.

Also, the practices were not nearly catered enough to a young QB, players and coaches aid, as I wrote about in the paper late in the season. That's on Gibbs - was his domain - and no one else. The special situations late in games, going live in those pressure situations in practice and focusing on what was acrushing the team late in games was not emphasized nearly enough, numerous players and coaches said.

Saunders is very bright and motivated and he has a great system. I imagine they could do special things with some of the cogs with the Rams. Williams has built elite defenses everywhere he's been. Someone will be landing a heck of a football coach.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:33 pm

Kentucky Fried Hog wrote:So, Al to St. Louis, is TC next to follow him?

Great question. I think TC is also gone. Of course, that will spark the ontroversy with Marc BUlger.

Also, I think it's interesting that, for once, we're not seeing our talented players go to another team and flourishInstead, it's the coaches now.

:puke:

jeremyroyce · Post by **jeremyroyce** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:00 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Posted at 2:51 PM ET, 01/27/2008
Gregg And Al (Reunited in St. Louis, And It Feels So Good?)

Would not be surprised to see both of these back with new teams before the Redskins sort their search out.

Both are highly in demand. At least 4 teams contacted Williams shortly after he was released from his contract yesterday and he's expected to begin interviewing for jobs this week. Tennessee and St. Louis were already granted permission to speak to him, and several other teams have called since Williams was let go.

Several players called me today to say how shocked they were that Williams was gone, especially in light of the way the unit bonded in the aftermath of Sean Taylor's death, how much they loved playing for him. "It was a shock to me and the rest of my teammates," one veteran said. "That part is tough to take." Keeping it in-house with Blache helps, but it remains to be seen what's in store for long-time Gregg Williams coaches like Jerry Gray, Steve Jackson and Danny Smith.

The team is putting out the word they want everyone back, but if Williams leaves for another coordinator position some coaches could follow. And some of these staff members will be gone regardless in all likelihood.

As for Al, St. Louis is deep into talks with him for its vacant offensive coordinator position, but some league sources believe that if the Raiders head coaching job opens he could be a possibility there as well. Saunders would be a perfect fit in St. Louis, having been there during the glory years with Dick Vermeil.

Daniel Snyder was negative about the performance of Saunders and QB coach Bill Lazor to many people this off season and several sources involved in the hiring process believe they would be let go no matter who the coach was. (Yesterday the team confirmed that Lazor was fired, then un-confirmed it a few hours later, saying the next coach could pick his QB coach. As of this morning no one had the courtesy to tell Lazor one way or the other. The Redskins have trouble keeping things straight. Does Cerrato control the roster or doesn't he? Oh, the contradictions in that press release).

Anyway, I feel bad for Al because he was always handcuffed here by Gibbs and his long-time assistants. Team sources said Saunders was not even a part of some planning meetings and there were very much two factions within the offensive staff, players and coaches said, with Saunders, his son Bob and Lazor often the outsiders. Gibbs and his guys set the table and had strong feelings about offensive philosophy that did not always mesh with Al's system ... yet Al was the guy calling the plays.

And Al did call the plays, but Gibbs made it clear what he believed in, with the heavy emphasis on the run game in certain game plans, etc. Gibbs also picked the Qbs, etc. So again, the deck was stacked against Al. But I also think Saunders should have found a way to focus more on the assets of young QB, eliminate chunks of the playbook and focus more on what fit the personnel.

There was too much volume, veteran players said, with hybrids of West Coast stuff, Coryell stuff, power running. If you get it down, it's awesome. But these guys never got it fully.

"It's a great system, it really is," one veteran said. "We were getting there but we pulled from so many different things. So it takes time to grasp it all." Saunders's footprints are already in St. Louis, though.

Also, the practices were not nearly catered enough to a young QB, players and coaches aid, as I wrote about in the paper late in the season. That's on Gibbs - was his domain - and no one else. The special situations late in games, going live in those pressure situations in practice and focusing on what was acrushing the team late in games was not emphasized nearly enough, numerous players and coaches said.

Saunders is very bright and motivated and he has a great system. I imagine they could do special things with some of the cogs with the Rams. Williams has built elite defenses everywhere he's been. Someone will be landing a heck of a football coach.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/

Ok. This idea of Al Saunders being handuffed by Gibbs is BS. Joe Gibbs went out there to get Al Saunders because Gibbs felt that Al Saunders could help this offense instead it hurt our offense. I don't feel bad for Al Saunder, Build a bridge and get over it.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:11 pm

Ok. This idea of Al Saunders being handuffed by Gibbs is BS. Joe Gibbs went out there to get Al Saunders because Gibbs felt that Al Saunders could help this offense instead it hurt our offense. I don't feel bad for Al Saunder, Build a bridge and get over it.

You're crazy if you don't think that Al was handcuffed by Gibbs. Do you really think that Al wanted Brunell as his starter in 2006? Go back and watch Al's offense in Kansas City and compare what we had in DC over the past 2 seasons. It isn't even close to being the same offense. We never saw Al's offense here. What we saw with the Redskins was an ineffective blend of the Gibbs/Saunders offense. You really think that it was Al's idea to run all of those heavy jumbo packages in the red zone? Even the players have come out an said that Al wasn't totally in charge of the offense. Last off-season Clinton Portis said Gibbs was in charge of the running game and Al was in charge of the passing game. That is no way to run an offense. There were too many cooks in the kitchen and too many people adding in their input.

roybus14 · Post by **roybus14** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:16 pm

jroyce,

You got players saying it and even Gibbs said it during the season that everything goes through him on the play-calling. There were other signs out there that Al did not have full control like Portis saying in the off-season that he don't even talke to Al. Which leds right into the separate meetings and Al being left out of alot.

The only reason why this team flourished in the last part of the season is because Gibbs finally realized that he had no other choice but to let Al do his thing. It was even more evident when JC went down and TC stepped into. That run we made when JC got hurt on offense, had Al's name written all over it. It was really hammered home in the Minnesota game when we went play-action and hit Moss over the top when everyone thought we were going to run for the first down to control the clock.

Because Gibbs kept everything hush-hush at the Park, you are only hearing snippets now of what happened there because Gibbs is now gone. It is not impossible to think that even though Joe bought him here that Joe still did not handcuff the man. This guy has a proven track record in KC and STL when he's given full control. Here, he didn't have it until the end of this season which was so obvious to those who know a little about football and this team.....

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:23 pm

jeremyroyce wrote:Ok. This idea of Al Saunders being handuffed by Gibbs is BS. Joe Gibbs went out there to get Al Saunders because Gibbs felt that Al Saunders could help this offense instead it hurt our offense. I don't feel bad for Al Saunder, Build a bridge and get over it.

This post deserves to be laughed at. :lol:

TeeterSalad · Post by **TeeterSalad** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:42 pm

Kentucky Fried Hog wrote:So, Al to St. Louis, is TC next to follow him?

If Saunders, G.W. and Todd Collins end up in St. Louis we're really gonna be kicking ourselves by the next 2 seasons. T.C. + A.S. combo has proven to equal decent offensive production, they could be in the playoffs by next season with a good defense.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:49 pm

TeeterSalad wrote:
Kentucky Fried Hog wrote:So, Al to St. Louis, is TC next to follow him?

If Saunders, G.W. and Todd Collins end up in St. Louis we're really gonna be kicking ourselves by the next 2 seasons. T.C. + A.S. combo has proven to equal decent offensive production, they could be in the playoffs by next season with a good defense.

I know there's some crazy insane Todd Collins love on this board, but do you really think TC is going to unseat multiple Pro Bowl QB Marc Bulger?

Collins has had a nice 4 game stretch. Bulger's had a nice career.

RedskinsFreak · Post by **RedskinsFreak** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:02 pm

And, of course, Rams-Redskins at FedEx in 2008.

Break out the computers, caluculators and abaci (plural of abacus?) Half a hundred?

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:53 pm

roybus14 wrote:jroyce,

You got players saying it and even Gibbs said it during the season that everything goes through him on the play-calling. There were other signs out there that Al did not have full control like Portis saying in the off-season that he don't even talke to Al. Which leds right into the separate meetings and Al being left out of alot.

The only reason why this team flourished in the last part of the season is because Gibbs finally realized that he had no other choice but to let Al do his thing. It was even more evident when JC went down and TC stepped into. That run we made when JC got hurt on offense, had Al's name written all over it. It was really hammered home in the Minnesota game when we went play-action and hit Moss over the top when everyone thought we were going to run for the first down to control the clock.

Because Gibbs kept everything hush-hush at the Park, you are only hearing snippets now of what happened there because Gibbs is now gone. It is not impossible to think that even though Joe bought him here that Joe still did not handcuff the man. This guy has a proven track record in KC and STL when he's given full control. Here, he didn't have it until the end of this season which was so obvious to those who know a little about football and this team.....

First, the players weren't getting the job done and then they blamed Gibbs for hamstringing Al.

Second, the offense started playing better when Moss and ARE got healthy and then went into overdrive once Collins replaced Campbell. The same type of plays were called, TC just executed better than Campbell!

Third, of course Gibbs said he was being too conservative. The media was saying it, the fans were saying it, and his player started too say it too because it was easier than admitting they were not getting the job done.

And said he MAY have been too conservative! Diverting the blame from his players. What was he supposed to say "No it wasn't to conservative, the players just didn't get the job done!"