Vinny Cerrato PROMOTED?!?!

fredp45 · Post by **fredp45** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:20 pm

Can anyone say -- Snyder is screwing the Skins up? OR shall I say it?

Snyder is screwing our team up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vinnie? You must be kidding me? Earlier, someone called Cerrato a tool -- that's the perfect name for that yes man.

To hear that we may hire Fassel over Greg Wms is craziness. I also read that Cerrato doesn't like Wms. I'm sure he doesn't like Saunders either. Maybe because both of these guys have forgotten more about football than this guy ever knew. First we hire Fassel and then he hires two new Coordinators so we can start over again...what a great idea.

CRAP -- maybe I should just root for the Browns or Steelers, I'm closer to those two teams anyway. Both of those organizations are run by someone with at least 1/2 a brain.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:37 pm

You said it yourself... "semantics". He'll be doing the exact same thing he's been doing since he's been here. So no, this is not a promotion. Call it what you want, his job description remains the same.

How exactly can it be the same job that he's been doing when a lot of the things that he is now responsible for, Gibbs did during the past 4 seasons? Cerrato is going to have a much bigger hand in things than he had when Gibbs was here.

What exactly does is say about the job that you've done when your Redskins bio lists the following as one of your career highlights...

His first
two years in Washington were busy, helping acquire future Hall of Famers Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders, as well as several free agents including Irving Fryar and Mark Carrier.

DaSkins24 · Post by **DaSkins24** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:22 pm

Vinny got more power and an extension. To celebrate, he's going to trade this years 1st rounder and next years 2nd round pick to the Lions to re-acquire T.J. Duckett.

Hopefully Danny boy hires Jim Fassel this week so we can just kiss the rest of the decade goodbye.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:49 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:What exactly does is say about the job that you've done when your Redskins bio lists the following as one of your career highlights...

His first
two years in Washington were busy, helping acquire future Hall of Famers Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders, as well as several free agents including Irving Fryar and Mark Carrier.

Not much... ... ... in hindsight. After those signings, every expert in the country predicted the Skins would make a run at the Super Bowl that year. It's my opinion that these guys got "paid" and did not put forth the effort expected, by everyone. Unfortunately, Vinny took full blame for that, after he was initially praised for those signings, and has never been able to get out from that shadow. In the article I posted in Vin's thread, it became a joke in team meetings, explained by Gibbs, that every loss is Vinny's fault, followed by a good laugh. To date, Vinny admits he misjudged those guys and 2000 was his biggest regret.

Nevertheless, he still doesn't get any credit for the list of FA's and draft picks, since 2000 that turned out to be solid contributors for this organization. It is my opinion, although an admitted unpopular opinion, that the failure to gain some recognition for that is also unfortunate. But that's how it goes, a huge mistake will endlessly over shadow the positives. BTW - I'm not saying Vinny is the greatest football guy ever, but without question, he has become the fall guy for all of the teams misfortunes.

jazzskins · Post by **jazzskins** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:09 am

SkinsFreak wrote:Not much... ... ... in hindsight. After those signings, every expert in the country predicted the Skins would make a run at the Super Bowl that year. It's my opinion that these guys got "paid" and did not put forth the effort expected, by everyone. Unfortunately, Vinny took full blame for that, after he was initially praised for those signings, and has never been able to get out from that shadow. In the article I posted in Vin's thread, it became a joke in team meetings, explained by Gibbs, that every loss is Vinny's fault, followed by a good laugh. To date, Vinny admits he misjudged those guys and 2000 was his biggest regret.

Nevertheless, he still doesn't get any credit for the list of FA's and draft picks, since 2000 that turned out to be solid contributors for this organization. It is my opinion, although an admitted unpopular opinion, that the failure to gain some recognition for that is also unfortunate. But that's how it goes, a huge mistake will endlessly over shadow the positives. BTW - I'm not saying Vinny is the greatest football guy ever, but without question, he has become the fall guy for all of the teams misfortunes.

Hey, why are you making sense? THis isn't the place for that.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:13 am

Sorry...

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:16 pm

While I still believe that Cerrato is a tool I will say that if this new position is a way of giving the team a means of evaluating his performance then I am all for it - if he can be fired for making mistakes then I'm all for that - I have always wanted to get a GM and if this is basically that then that IMHO is a good thing because he can now be let go if he continues to make the sort of mistakes that have been "credited" to him in the past.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03341.html

this is an article about the hiring from Wilbon - interesting take :lol:

he also feels this about Cerrato - "His advice as to what to do was wiser in several instances than the course of action the Redskins took." :shock:

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:14 pm

Nevertheless, he still doesn't get any credit for the list of FA's and draft picks, since 2000 that turned out to be solid contributors for this organization. It is my opinion, although an admitted unpopular opinion, that the failure to gain some recognition for that is also unfortunate. But that's how it goes, a huge mistake will endlessly over shadow the positives. BTW - I'm not saying Vinny is the greatest football guy ever, but without question, he has become the fall guy for all of the teams misfortunes.

Well to be fair to Vinny, with the way the front office has been set up, a lot of the blame is placed on him simply because he is Snyder's friend and because of the 2000 debacle. A valid (and intriguing) point was raised on the Riggins show yesterday. They said that the 2004, 2005, and 2006 offseasons were terrible from the player acquisition standpoint, but the 2007 offseason showed a change of philosophy and was largely successful. And it's not outside the realm of possibility that Vinny was given more authority and played a larger roll in the 2007 offseson than in the previously unsuccessful ones. So even though there are some troubling past mistakes with Vinny, perhaps he will surprise people and do a good job.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:26 pm

I will agree and the fact that he is now more than just a token target that we can all find fault with his position has been clarified by this appointment :roll:

He was blamed for everything - now he has a job title and by extension a position that can be shown to be successful or not. In the past he was viewed primarily as a Snyder yes man. Cerrato is now in a position that his actions can be judged. :twisted:

for the teams sake I hope he does a whole lot better than has been reported in the past. :roll:

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:26 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:Well to be fair to Vinny, with the way the front office has been set up, a lot of the blame is placed on him simply because he is Snyder's friend and because of the 2000 debacle. A valid (and intriguing) point was raised on the Riggins show yesterday. They said that the 2004, 2005, and 2006 offseasons were terrible from the player acquisition standpoint, but the 2007 offseason showed a change of philosophy and was largely successful. And it's not outside the realm of possibility that Vinny was given more authority and played a larger roll in the 2007 offseson than in the previously unsuccessful ones. So even though there are some troubling past mistakes with Vinny, perhaps he will surprise people and do a good job.

I'm willing to buy that a couple of those seasons were terrible, but not all of them. 2005 was a good offseason for us. 2004 was a mixed bad, considering the mess that the team was in when Gibbs stepped in. 2006 was not good for us. All along the way too many draft picks were used.

2005 and 2007 were good offseasons because they were the least splashy. But when you look at our roster, it is more or less the product of the 2004 and 2005 offseasons. . .so calling all of them terrible can't be near the truth, considering that we went to playoffs after losing our best player and half of our starters to injury.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:44 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:Well to be fair to Vinny, with the way the front office has been set up, a lot of the blame is placed on him simply because he is Snyder's friend and because of the 2000 debacle. A valid (and intriguing) point was raised on the Riggins show yesterday. They said that the 2004, 2005, and 2006 offseasons were terrible from the player acquisition standpoint, but the 2007 offseason showed a change of philosophy and was largely successful. And it's not outside the realm of possibility that Vinny was given more authority and played a larger roll in the 2007 offseson than in the previously unsuccessful ones. So even though there are some troubling past mistakes with Vinny, perhaps he will surprise people and do a good job.

I'm willing to buy that a couple of those seasons were terrible, but not all of them. 2005 was a good offseason for us. 2004 was a mixed bad, considering the mess that the team was in when Gibbs stepped in. 2006 was not good for us. All along the way too many draft picks were used.

2005 and 2007 were good offseasons because they were the least splashy. But when you look at our roster, it is more or less the product of the 2004 and 2005 offseasons. . .so calling all of them terrible can't be near the truth, considering that we went to playoffs after losing our best player and half of our starters to injury.

Just what I was going to point out. 2006 we also drafted McIntosh, which looks like a good pick.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:59 pm

PulpExposure wrote:Just what I was going to point out. 2006 we also drafted McIntosh, which looks like a good pick.

As a general rule our higher-round picks have been good. The last true 'bust' that we've had from the first 3 rounds goes back to 2003 (I know that Carlos Rogers is the predictable objection here, but at the very least he's debatable).

Then there's the whole discussion of what we've done with rounds 4-7.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:01 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:Well to be fair to Vinny, with the way the front office has been set up, a lot of the blame is placed on him simply because he is Snyder's friend and because of the 2000 debacle. A valid (and intriguing) point was raised on the Riggins show yesterday. They said that the 2004, 2005, and 2006 offseasons were terrible from the player acquisition standpoint, but the 2007 offseason showed a change of philosophy and was largely successful. And it's not outside the realm of possibility that Vinny was given more authority and played a larger roll in the 2007 offseson than in the previously unsuccessful ones. So even though there are some troubling past mistakes with Vinny, perhaps he will surprise people and do a good job.

I'm willing to buy that a couple of those seasons were terrible, but not all of them. 2005 was a good offseason for us. 2004 was a mixed bad, considering the mess that the team was in when Gibbs stepped in. 2006 was not good for us. All along the way too many draft picks were used.

2005 and 2007 were good offseasons because they were the least splashy. But when you look at our roster, it is more or less the product of the 2004 and 2005 offseasons. . .so calling all of them terrible can't be near the truth, considering that we went to playoffs after losing our best player and half of our starters to injury.

2005 wasn't bad, but it wasn't exactly good either. The Moss/Coles trade worked out for us and while I wanted to keep Smoot, the money he wasnted was ridiculous. Drafting Campbell was also a great move imo. However, the rest of our draft that year was terrible. Yes Rogers played better this season, but he wasn't worthy of a top 10 pick and doesn't look like he is going to live up to his draft position. The rest of our draft picks that year haven't contributed in a meaningful fashion....Manuel White Jr (4th round), McCune (5th), Newberry (6th), and Nemo (7th).

We did add Rabach in free agency, which was a great move. However, we lost Antonio Pierce and we didn't find his replacement until this offseason. Patten didn't work out here and Prioleau hasn't really been all that successful here and probably should be cut before next season. So I wouldn't agree with Riggins and Co. that it was a terrible offseason, but I also wouldn't exactly brag about it if I was a member of the Redskins front office.

My biggest concern with Vinny though is the draft decisions that we have made in the last few years. I am convinced that this team isn't going to be anything more than a mediocre NFL franchise until we start keeping our draft picks and do a better job when using them.

HanburgerHelper · Post by **HanburgerHelper** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:02 pm

SkinsJock wrote:...I could not care less what they call him, what his title is or what he does - the biggest problem here remains the same - Snyder and Cerrato are like an alcoholic that refuses to believe he has a drinking problem - the team needs a GM that makes the real decisions.

I loved this quote. Yes, I think someone is in denial here. Although I've heard many respected sources (including Gibbs) say that Cerrato has a great football mind and that many of his personnel suggestions were not taken to the Redskins peril, I can't help but think this guy isn't all cracked up to be what people say about him.

I do acknowledge that the personnel decisions since Cerrato came in are getting better, as is the overall strategy for the draft and free agent signings. We are not signing guys for big dollars who are way past their prime (Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith, Mark Brunell, Brandon Noble).

Generally, the front office is no longer getting royally screwed on deals and God help them if they ever get suckered into signing marginal players for decent picks (e.g., TJ Duckett costs us our #4 this year and we never got him the ball). And yes, don't make deals with Denver! They're far too shrewd for us. Not sure how they wormed a #2 pick out of us in the Portis/Bailey deal to get Tatum Bell. It should have been even up or a much later pick added on.

Drafts? More picks please! And I didn't understand trading up for JC-- I think they could have gotten him later. I am personally not sold on either of the two Auburn guys but like Campbell's work ethic and hope he rebounds. I'll give him another chance. Picking LaRon Landry last year was safe and smart. In retrospect it was genius. If they don't draft this year (or obtain thru FA) a pash rushing DE, an OL (or two), an OLB, a run stuffing DT, and a rangy WR (un-smurflike), I'll be back throwing my usual rotten tomatoes.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:15 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:Well to be fair to Vinny, with the way the front office has been set up, a lot of the blame is placed on him simply because he is Snyder's friend and because of the 2000 debacle. A valid (and intriguing) point was raised on the Riggins show yesterday. They said that the 2004, 2005, and 2006 offseasons were terrible from the player acquisition standpoint, but the 2007 offseason showed a change of philosophy and was largely successful. And it's not outside the realm of possibility that Vinny was given more authority and played a larger roll in the 2007 offseson than in the previously unsuccessful ones. So even though there are some troubling past mistakes with Vinny, perhaps he will surprise people and do a good job.

I'm willing to buy that a couple of those seasons were terrible, but not all of them. 2005 was a good offseason for us. 2004 was a mixed bad, considering the mess that the team was in when Gibbs stepped in. 2006 was not good for us. All along the way too many draft picks were used.

2005 and 2007 were good offseasons because they were the least splashy. But when you look at our roster, it is more or less the product of the 2004 and 2005 offseasons. . .so calling all of them terrible can't be near the truth, considering that we went to playoffs after losing our best player and half of our starters to injury.

Just what I was going to point out. 2006 we also drafted McIntosh, which looks like a good pick.

Irn-Bru wrote:Then there's the whole discussion of what we've done with rounds 4-7.

Well, we also drafted Montgomery, Doughty and Golston that year, in the fifth and sixth rounds respectfully. Those three have been solid contributors for this team. Vinny headed up the scouting department then and played a role in drafting them. H.B. Blades was a sweet pick in the 6th last year too. Does Vinny get credit for that? Not all late round picks will make any team with a 53-man roster limit.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:39 pm

Obviously every team is going to hit on same late rounders and the front office did a good job with guys like Montgomery and Doughty. But check out our drafts since 2000 and it becomes painfully obvious why this team hasn't had proper depth for a long time and hasn't had young players ready to come in and play the way teams like the Colts, Steelers, and Pats have. Obviously not all Vinny's fault, but he has played a large roll in scouting college players and in the draft.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=5110&type=team

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:56 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:Well, we also drafted Montgomery, Doughty and Golston that year, in the fifth and sixth rounds respectfully. Those three have been solid contributors for this team. Vinny headed up the scouting department then and played a role in drafting them. H.B. Blades was a sweet pick in the 6th last year too. Does Vinny get credit for that? Not all late round picks will make any team with a 53-man roster limit.

I'm the first, or at least one among many on THN, to defend our good picks in recent years. However, I think it has been adequately shown that we consistently gave away 3rd or 4th round picks for players that didn't work out, and if you go back more than a couple of years our lower-round drafting looks worse and worse. The combination of losing most of our picks, along with mixed success in the ones we retained, is what I'm referring to.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:03 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:Well, we also drafted Montgomery, Doughty and Golston that year, in the fifth and sixth rounds respectfully. Those three have been solid contributors for this team. Vinny headed up the scouting department then and played a role in drafting them. H.B. Blades was a sweet pick in the 6th last year too. Does Vinny get credit for that? Not all late round picks will make any team with a 53-man roster limit.

I'm the first, or at least one among many on THN, to defend our good picks in recent years. However, I think it has been adequately shown that we consistently gave away 3rd or 4th round picks for players that didn't work out, and if you go back more than a couple of years our lower-round drafting looks worse and worse. The combination of losing most of our picks, along with mixed success in the ones we retained, is what I'm referring to.

I agree Irn-Bru, and you have been one of the few here to defend our good picks. I have recognized that.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:07 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:I agree Irn-Bru, and you have been one of the few here to defend our good picks. I have recognized that.

There are plenty of us that have because it's an understandable, rational response.

We can defend what's good about the Redskins while admitting there have been weaknesses (and likewise for criticizing while admitting some things went well). That's why I react to very strong statements that are, in my view, unwarranted. Calling all of our recent offseasons "terrible" would be one example, but so would saying that we have, as a general rule, used our draft picks well. So, I understand where you are coming from on this.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:19 pm

Agreed on all points, Irn.

BossHog · Post by **BossHog** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:52 am

The more things change - the more they stay the same. :roll:

My Cousin Vinny holds the top spot in the organization - awesome.

He's proven himself so capable. :puke:

markshark62 · Post by **markshark62** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:03 pm

Vinny is the biggest yes-man in all of sports. He gets promoted because he will do whatever Danny wants, when he wants it. He allows Danny to have a say in (if not total say) picking players. Danny is unqualified to say the least. I do place a lot of blame on Danny for our problems as a franchise. What Danny is good at, he has done well, which is market the franchise. What he is not good at, and what he has failed miserably in, is football. He should allow the people that know the game inside and out to run it. I wouldn't put Vinny in that category however.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:45 pm

cleg wrote:I am growing more concerned by the hour with the direction of this football team. I guess The Danny did not learn a damn thing from Coach Gibbs.

Amen.