At what point does Collins become the starter?

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:25 pm

I want Campbell to be the QB he can be and the QB that Gibbs thinks he will be - Collins is doing well at what he does - he is the back-up QB - Collins is playing because Campbell is not well enough, yet.

We will beat the pukes because of how the team plays not because of who is playing the QB position.

For what you have done already - Thank you Todd and get well Jason - we look forward to seeing you back in B&G as soon as you can.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:19 pm

There were a WHOLE lot of people who thought JC would be a lot farther along now than he is. Most people don't have the intestinal fortitude to remember what they so you can pick apart what I've posted until you're little heart's content. Maybe I had/have lofty expectations for JC, but I've been supportive. People have said, "Let him get 16 games under his belt." Then, it was, " He hasn't had a whole season (16 games this season)." Now it's 2010-2011.
There is a time when he's gotta be held responsible for his execution or lack thereof. Especially since he's went out and Collins has taken over, I think we've seen how it's supposed to execute, and can compare is to how JC has executed so far. Maybe this can be an eye opener for him. Maybe he will take Collins and absorb as much as he can now that Collins has given an example right in front of JC. Who knows. I say next year should be his make or break year. Maybe JC just can't function in this offense.......

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:29 pm

Um, who said 2010 or 2011? Making up arguments that don't exist does nothing to advance this discussion. Jason has played 20 games in the NFL, that doesn't mean he has an open-ended deal but if you don't think that matters, you don't know very much about the NFL. LOTS of things have happened in that 20 game stretch, to simply say "well, he's not a Pro Bowl QB right now, time to worry" is short-sighted. Injuries and miscues, coaching mistakes and pathetic defensive showings are ALL part of the story here, Jason doesn't play in a vacuum. Again, for those who aren't impressed by him thus far, I have no idea what you are watching.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:40 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:There were a WHOLE lot of people who thought JC would be a lot farther along now than he is. Most people don't have the intestinal fortitude to remember what they so you can pick apart what I've posted until you're little heart's content. Maybe I had/have lofty expectations for JC, but I've been supportive. People have said, "Let him get 16 games under his belt." Then, it was, " He hasn't had a whole season (16 games this season)." Now it's 2010-2011.
There is a time when he's gotta be held responsible for his execution or lack thereof. Especially since he's went out and Collins has taken over, I think we've seen how it's supposed to execute, and can compare is to how JC has executed so far. Maybe this can be an eye opener for him. Maybe he will take Collins and absorb as much as he can now that Collins has given an example right in front of JC. Who knows. I say next year should be his make or break year. Maybe JC just can't function in this offense.......

I haven't seen anything that says JC can't function in AS offense. I've seen improvement from last year to this year, was it what I hoped for... No but what did he have to work with? The year he sat on the bench learning his 5th offensive scheme was thown away but this was his second year in the same scheme as the year before. However how much tape could he have had that helped? Old KC tape of Trent Green and a bunch of WR and TE that he don't have playing against mostly AFC defensive schemes (we can only hope the kept the Brunell tapes away from him). I don't know about next year being his make or break year but he now has film of how to properly run this offense with the weapons he has. Standing on the sidelines in street clothes might be a good thing right now for Jason.

Assasin atm · Post by **Assasin atm** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:43 pm

Fios wrote:Um, who said 2010 or 2011? Making up arguments that don't exist does nothing to advance this discussion. Jason has played 20 games in the NFL, that doesn't mean he has an open-ended deal but if you don't think that matters, you don't know very much about the NFL. LOTS of things have happened in that 20 game stretch, to simply say "well, he's not a Pro Bowl QB right now, time to worry" is short-sighted. Injuries and miscues, coaching mistakes and pathetic defensive showings are ALL part of the story here, Jason doesn't play in a vacuum. Again, for those who aren't impressed by him thus far, I have no idea what you are watching.

I agree- just because he recieved alot of hype and alot of media attention when we drafted heim and when he started doesnt mean he's the second coming of jesus. It will take time- he's young and some aspects of his game such as pocket presence and quick judment havent quite matured yet but he still makes good decisions and handles pressure situations well for such a young kid and most those situations could have been avoided with better play calling. And for Collins to be the new face of the redskins is ludacris. He preforms decent in an Al Saunders offense, thats it. He doesnt have the tools to win a game for you or the tools to be a premier quarterback. Jason does- just give it time.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:46 pm

Assasin atm wrote:And for Collins to be the new face of the redskins is ludacris. He preforms well in an Al Saunders offense. He doesnt have the tools to win a game for you or the tools to be a premier quarterback. Jason does- just give it time.

Correct. Collins has perfected THIS offense. What happens if Al leaves? Then what? We dust Jason off and put him in a new offense for a year and after he hasn't put up Brady stats after being shelved for 2 years we cut him and repeat this retarded process?

Give Jason time...

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:06 pm

Fios wrote:Um, who said 2010 or 2011? Making up arguments that don't exist does nothing to advance this discussion.

To be fair Irn-Bru did bring up those dates in another thread, but he was saying it may be that long before Jason is in the prime of his career, not until he started performing up to expectations.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:15 pm

JSPB22 wrote:
Fios wrote:Um, who said 2010 or 2011? Making up arguments that don't exist does nothing to advance this discussion.

To be fair Irn-Bru did bring up those dates in another thread, but he was saying it may be that long before Jason is in the prime of his career, not until he started performing up to expectations.

Yes, I was just trying to put some perspective on things. If Campbell is the man of our expectations, and if he peaks around 2010 or 2011, then these early struggles won't even be a shadow of a memory for Redskins fans. That's all I was really trying to say with that. (That, and I wanted to point out the somewhat obvious that it will take patience to be content with Campbell until he reaches that point in his career.)

I would say that expecting Campbell to start executing in some of those crucial moments—like the come-back drives this year that never seemed to work out—within the next two seasons isn't unreasonable. In that respect I would agree with VetSkinsFan, but I do think that he's jumping the gun by wondering out loud this early. I also think that he's not giving Campbell enough credit for his progress.

LOSTHOG · Post by **LOSTHOG** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:21 pm

Campbell will be fine. He can make all the throws required to run this offense. If he continues to work as hard in future offseasons as he did this past one, he too will soon master the offense. I think it is an Absolute must for Moss to stay in DC with him instead of hanging out in Miami. He had Pennington throwing to him in NY. He had MB04 throwing to him here. Neither one of these guys are known for their velocity. Now with JC he struggles with the hard pass. Collins comes in with a softer pass and Moss is again a factor. Bottom line, Moss and JC need time together for this offense to take off.

nnskinsfan · Post by **nnskinsfan** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:33 pm

If we win the SB with Collins I don't see how you could go into next year with him as the backup. JC has plenty of time to regain the starting role. That is, basically, I think they stand a chance of losing the team if Collins won the SB only to have him benched next season. Afterall, it's performance that counts and not draft status, age, etc.

What I expect though, is for us to make the playoffs but don't really pose a threat to win it all. In that case, I think you have to go with JC next year since he has the most potential.

SKINS#1 · Post by **SKINS#1** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:06 pm

Many of you are probably to young to remember when we had Billy and Sonny as Redskin QB's. Based on talent the contest wasn't close but we did very well with Billy at QB.

Collins may be the next Billy for the Redskins, do whatever it takes to win.

welch · Post by **welch** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:17 pm

"Too young..."!!!! Speak for yourself, young 'un! :lol:

"I'm a Redskin fan and I like Sonny"

(Was that a People's Drugstore campaign???)

(Oh, and I only wish we had a choice of Sonny or Billy right now. My gut feel is that Joe Gibbs thought Brunell might be a sort of modern Billy...tough, experienced, and a leader, even without a Sonny-like throw. Difference, maybe, is that Billy could wing it when he got a good grip on the ball..."small hands", even Billy said. Also that Charley Taylor, Roy Jefferson, and Jerry Smith were about twice as good as any team's receivers today.)

Assasin atm · Post by **Assasin atm** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:17 pm

SKINS#1 wrote:Many of you are probably to young to remember when we had Billy and Sonny as Redskin QB's. Based on talent the contest wasn't close but we did very well with Billy at QB.

Collins may be the next Billy for the Redskins, do whatever it takes to win.

YOU ARE ABSOLUTLY RIGHT

Im too young.

gibbsfan · Post by **gibbsfan** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:19 am

he,s the starter now aint he.....you go with whats working now and todd(aka phil ) collins is your starter unless his performance shows us otherwise.

go with todd for now.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:39 pm

The "starting QB" is whoever the coach determines will "start" and to answer the question of "At what point ..." regarding Collins specifically I would say that would happen when Campbell is not our "starting" QB

Campbell is our "starting" QB right now! Collins is our back-up and he will start this weekend and until Gibbs thinks Campbell is ready to play again

The QB who is on the field will be that player who gives the team the best chance to be successful - every team has 53 players that win or lose together - a team is as good or as bad as the whole team.

The most important part of our success recently is not because of who is "starting" at any position but because we are playing better as a team and the coaches are coaching and game planning better as a whole.

That is why we will win this next game - this team believes they will win and is playing very well together.