Sh-sh-sh-shameless (self promotion)

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:47 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
JSPB22 wrote:
Fios wrote:Also worth remembering that Campbell played quite well in both games, he outplayed Favre and threw for more yardage than Romo

Sean Taylor had a lot to do with Favre's miserable performance that day.

How does that detract from how well JC played?

The point is that JC has the potential, he's shown the flashes it's just all about CONSISTENCY.

To get consistency we need a few things...

1. Consistency in the coaching staff. IF Gibbs stays great. If he leaves don't blow everything up.
2. Time. Collins sucked when he was young, he's been around for 9+ years. Give Jason time.
3. Support.

Very well said.

Great article by Fios as well.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:54 pm

chiefhog44 wrote:Agree with everything. Good article as I was the one who started the first thread. I'm amazed at how many people think Collins is a long term solution. This year yes, next year...no way.

The only thing I don't agree with is #4. In my opinion, JC has been sacked more because he holds onto the ball too long. That can be fixed though. Once he knows the offense better, his reads will move faster and he'll be able to get to the third or fourth option like Collins has in these four games. THAT is the difference. Give him some time to learn.

I think that's partially true. I think that some people tend to exaggerate how long Jason holds onto the ball in the pocket. In 2006 he actually took sacks at a lower rate than Brunell so I don't think that he's hanging out in the pocket all day long like some people make it seem. For example, in the New England game, Campbell was sacked at least twice by Bruschi on plays where he was totally unblocked. Yes there have been times when Jason has held onto the ball for too long, but there have been several games this season in which Jason was basically running for his life because of our offensive line. I really don't think that it can be argued that our offensive line is playing better now than it was earlier in the season. Just like last year.

chiefhog44 · Post by **chiefhog44** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:31 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:Agree with everything. Good article as I was the one who started the first thread. I'm amazed at how many people think Collins is a long term solution. This year yes, next year...no way.

The only thing I don't agree with is #4. In my opinion, JC has been sacked more because he holds onto the ball too long. That can be fixed though. Once he knows the offense better, his reads will move faster and he'll be able to get to the third or fourth option like Collins has in these four games. THAT is the difference. Give him some time to learn.

I think that's partially true. I think that some people tend to exaggerate how long Jason holds onto the ball in the pocket. In 2006 he actually took sacks at a lower rate than Brunell so I don't think that he's hanging out in the pocket all day long like some people make it seem. For example, in the New England game, Campbell was sacked at least twice by Bruschi on plays where he was totally unblocked. Yes there have been times when Jason has held onto the ball for too long, but there have been several games this season in which Jason was basically running for his life because of our offensive line. I really don't think that it can be argued that our offensive line is playing better now than it was earlier in the season. Just like last year.

Yes, but that is my point. An unblocked linebacker is often the fault of the QB not adjusting his blocking at the line. It happened a few times in the preseason as well. He has to get a better understanding of what the defense is running so that he can play within the offense. Right now he is still snapping the ball and being unsure if what he called is correct.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:52 am

Good stuff. Some points I would like to address:

First, while Collins' play has been tremendous, three games is a rather small statistical snapshot.

That's true. But it should be pointed out that Campbell has never had any three game snapshot that comes close to Collins'.

We can tell you with absolute certainty that Jason Campbell is the best and most promising quarterback to play for the Redskins in 13 years, hands down.

Absolute certainty?

How many times did the defense give Jason short field position or fail to make a stop, putting the offense in a bad spot?

I love how dumping on the Campbell to make a case for Collins is bad, but dumping on the defense to make a case for Campbell is fine.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:49 am

That's true. But it should be pointed out that Campbell has never had any three game snapshot that comes close to Collins'.

And JC also hasn't played 3 consecutive games against the 24th, 27th, and 32nd ranked defenses in the NFL. And Collins has played exactly one full game at a very high level. JC was playing well against the Bears before he got hurt. Collins struggled against the Giants (yes it was windy and that was clearly a huge factor in his struggles) so talking about a 3 game snapshot in misleading. He was great against the Vikings but this is a very limited body of work.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:57 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I really enjoyed your article Fios.

1. I support Jason.
2. I support Collins.

Interesting read Fios - just stirring the cup as usual?
Like Chris, I also support both Collins and Campbell - as welch has indicated a number of times - we should support whoever is under center (as QB) for our team.

Right now, we as a team are playing very well - we could surprise some of these guys - none of the NFC teams are playing together as well as we are.

Next year we should have an interesting scenario at QB - Campbell will hopefully benefit from this off-season more than he did from the last - despite what some have said, I did not think he looked as "sharp" as he should have been, given that he was "going to do whatever it took to be the best he could be" last off-season. Some progress sure but he was not up to speed and he has not improved that quickness you need as a QB in the NFL and that has caused the mistakes that we have not seen from Collins.

I think Campbell is going to be awesome and we will have one of the better QB situations in the NFL next year - I presume the salary cap implications mean that we can now let Brunell go?

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:18 am

Some are posting like there is a choice here - Right now, given that Campbell is not ready to play, Collins is the starter.

IF Campbell were ready to play, Gibbs, in my opinion, would play the QB that gives him the best chance at winning that game. There are some that think that Campbell should be given the chance to play and continue progressing as soon as he is able - that is a different scenario than what we are facing right now.

I hope and think Gibbs, today, tomorrow and next year, will play the QB that gives him the best chance at winning the next game.
Heaven forbid we have to see Brunell but if that happens I'll be supporting him too

BnGhog · Post by **BnGhog** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:03 pm

We all know how Gibbs loyalty to Brunell, keep him in the game too long.

I think his loyalty to JC would be the same. Weather Todd is playing best or not, I think he will play JC if he was 100%.

Not saying thats the best way to go, but that's what I see Gibbs doing.

I think Brunell could do really well comming into a game if he has to. I don't think he could play well for 3 or 4 games. But right now he is fresh and has plenty of experionce and knowlege of the system.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:35 pm

BnGhog wrote:We all know how Gibbs loyalty to Brunell, keep him in the game too long.

I think his loyalty to JC would be the same. Weather Todd is playing best or not, I think he will play JC if he was 100%.

Not saying thats the best way to go, but that's what I see Gibbs doing.

I think Brunell could do really well comming into a game if he has to. I don't think he could play well for 3 or 4 games. But right now he is fresh and has plenty of experionce and knowlege of the system.

Joe has a tendency to go with the veteran in the playoffs. See the 87 season situation with Jay Schroeder and Doug Williams if you have any doubts.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:20 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:And JC also hasn't played 3 consecutive games against the 24th, 27th, and 32nd ranked defenses in the NFL.

1: Neither has Collins:

Code: Select all

         YPG   PTS/G
Bears     28     16
Giants     6     14
Vikings   19     10

AVG       18     13

2: Campbell has absolutely played three consecutive games against teams with an average rank of 18th in YPG. Weeks 5, 6 and 7, for example, Campbell faced the Lions (32), Packers (10) and Cardinals (20). For the record, Campbell had an 87.4 quarterback rating, and the team went 2-1.

CanesSkins26 wrote:And Collins has played exactly one full game at a very high level. JC was playing well against the Bears before he got hurt. Collins struggled against the Giants (yes it was windy and that was clearly a huge factor in his struggles) so talking about a 3 game snapshot in misleading. He was great against the Vikings but this is a very limited body of work.

1: I don't know how you define "very high level", but Collins was outstanding against the Bears (15-20, 224, 2/0) and much more effective than Campbell (10/16, 100, 0/0).

2: Yes, it's a small snapshot. My point is that Collins' small snapshot is better than any small snapshot Campbell has ever had. Campbell's played twenty games in his career with the Redskins, and never won more than two in a row. Collins has played three, and won three in a row. If the question is who is more likely to win four consecutive games in the playoffs, the answer has to be Collins.