Who says Gibbs doesn't know football?

[JPFair]

Anyone who says that Gibbs doesn't know the rules of football are out of their minds. In addition, those that will inevitably say that it wasn't Gibbs who caught the 12 man infraction need to look at it from the proper perspective. The QC coaches job is to transmit that type of information to Gibbs, and it is Gibbs who makes the decision whether to challenge it or not. Passing that type of information to Gibbs happens all game long, and Gibbs is the one who has to decide in a split second whether to challenge it or not. In this case, it was his knowledge of the rules, i.e. whether you can even challenge such a call, that proved to be the winner in this case.

In other words, look at it this way....there were two officials within yards of the player who didn't get off the field in time, and they didn't throw a flag. So, the probability is that this type of thing happens all day long, but credit Gibbs's decision making at the right time that made this challenge work.

Kudos to the QC Coach, but ultimately it's Gibbs who should take the majority of credit for the challenge.

Anyway, the challenge in and of itself did not cost the Vikings the game, and conversely, it didn't seal the Redskins victory. The Redskins dominated every facet of that game, save for a few minutes momentum shift in the 3rd/4th quarter. Even if the challenge didn't work, the Redskins were in position to either get a field goal, or at a minimum, pin the Vikings deep in their own territory with a huge mountain to climb. The game did not hinge on this challenge at all...it is just all part of the game, and Gibbs should, although he probably won't, get credit for such decision that was pure genius!!

[DEHog]

Good point JP...they blasted him for not knowing the rule in the Bills game. Where is the credit for this call??

[Chris Luva Luva]

Good point JP...they blasted him for not knowing the rule in the Bills game. When is the credit for this call??

I think I read somewhere that the quality control coach noticed it. And then some other cat had visual proof and then Joe made the final call.

Not that I disagree with the OP (original poster).

[VetSkinsFan]

From Redskins.com

Joe Gibbs credited offensive quality control coach Bill Khayat and assistant video director Todd Davis for noticing there were 12 Vikings players on the field during a critical sequence in Sunday's game.

Todd Collins had completed a 23-yard sideline pass to Moss near midfield, but the Vikings appeared ready to challenge the play to determine if Moss had both feet in bounds.

Collins got to the line of scrimmage quickly to run a play before Minnesota could challenge, but Collins and Casey Rabach mishandled the snap. The fumble was recovered by the Vikings.

Khayat noticed that the Vikings had 12 players on the field, an infraction. Davis, who takes video shots of each play, quickly reviewed the film and counted 12 players on the field.

The information was delivered to Gibbs's headset, and the head coach tossed a challenge flag.

Replay revealed that a Vikings player had not been able to get off the field in time for the snap. And instead of a costly fumble, the Redskins had the ball in Vikings territory.



If you have someone talking in your ear saying "THEY HAD 12 MEN ON THE FIELD, CHALLENGE IT!!!" from the guy who's SUPPOSED to catch that stuff, how on earth can you take credit for that. JG did the honorable(which we know JG will do) and gave credit where credit is due.

I'm not slamming JG outright, but you can't call him arbiter of all things football b/c someone else saw (and verified by a second) this act and he threw his little flag. He could have thrown his little red flag and it not be able to be challneged, b/c I've seen that before, too.

And let's not even get STARTED on the officiating the past couple of years. How about the chokehold on GB linebacker, Barnett!!

[JPFair]

If you have someone talking in your ear saying "THEY HAD 12 MEN ON THE FIELD, CHALLENGE IT!!!" from the guy who's SUPPOSED to catch that stuff, how on earth can you take credit for that. JG did the honorable(which we know JG will do) and gave credit where credit is due.

I'm not slamming JG outright, but you can't call him arbiter of all things football b/c someone else saw (and verified by a second) this act and he threw his little flag. He could have thrown his little red flag and it not be able to be challneged, b/c I've seen that before, too.

And let's not even get STARTED on the officiating the past couple of years. How about the chokehold on GB linebacker, Barnett!!

First of all, do we know for certain that Khayat actually said "THEY HAD 12 MEN ON THE FIELD, CHALLENGE IT"? Somehow, I don't see a Quality Control Coach actually telling Joe Gibbs what to do (no disrespect meant to Khayat). But, he does not dictate what Gibbs does, and doesn't do. In my post, I said that Gibbs should get the "majority" of the credit, as I think he should. It is not so much that they noticed 12 men on the field, as I think that's one of the things that Khayat is tasked with monitoring, but what the real issue here, in my opinion, is the DECISION to challenge it.

I can't speak for everyone on this site, or in the media, but I, for one, didn't even know that you were allowed challenge such a fact. Did you? Kudos to you if you did. Steve Mariucci of the NFL Network, and former Coach of San Francisco and Detroit, admitted that he didn't know teams were allowed to make a challenge of this type. Specifically, he wasn't challenging a play, per se, he was challenging something that resulted in a penalty on the Vikings. John Madden and Al Michaels appeared to not only wonder what Gibbs was challenging, but also if you could even challenge the fact that 12 men were on the field.

So, you're right, as we all know, it's not like Joe Gibbs to accept all the credit without giving credit to the people responsible for it. So, yeah, Bill Khayat SHOULD be credited for spotting 12 men on the field. It's highly unlikely that Gibbs, or any other head coach, would spot such an infraction while he's concentrating on other things. That's where Khayat comes in. Yes, he gets credit for spotting it, but to say that he told Gibbs to challenge it might be stretching it a little.

My point is this...it's the DECISION to challenge it that should be acknowledged even more than the actual infraction itself, and only Gibbs has that authority. Having said that, Gibbs shouldn't be crowned the greatest coach ever (even though he is) because of one challenge, but this simply goes to show that contrary to what a lot of people are suggesting, Gibbs is not out of touch with modern day football. Gibbs knew he could challenge that there were 12 men on the field, and he made the split second decision to challenge it. That, to me, deserves a lot of credit!!!

[Jeff Rhodes]

Your argument that Gibbs should get as much credit for getting the Viking challenge right as he did for getting the timeout call wrong against the Bills is flawed.

The Redskins employ a small army of people who observe and analyze situations like the 12-man call, and in this case the process worked as it should. The violation was noticed and Gibbs was advised to challenge the call, which he did. Score one for the good guys.

In the case of the second timeout call, however, Gibbs also had an army of people who were capable of consulting a rule book and not one of them recognized something that was so obvious even the play-by-play announcer realized it.

The point is, Gibbs is among the highest paid -- if not THE highest paid -- coaches in the league because he's expected to do smart things on the sideline. When he did something smart against the Vikings, he was just doing what he's being paid to do. When he did something stupid against the Bills, he wasn't -- and that, by definition -- is far more newsworthy.

[CanesSkins26]

First of all, do we know for certain that Khayat actually said "THEY HAD 12 MEN ON THE FIELD, CHALLENGE IT"? Somehow, I don't see a Quality Control Coach actually telling Joe Gibbs what to do (no disrespect meant to Khayat). But, he does not dictate what Gibbs does, and doesn't do. In my post, I said that Gibbs should get the "majority" of the credit, as I think he should. It is not so much that they noticed 12 men on the field, as I think that's one of the things that Khayat is tasked with monitoring, but what the real issue here, in my opinion, is the DECISION to challenge it.

Whoever noticed that there were 12 men on the field deserves the vast majority of the credit for this. If the coaches in the booth noticed that there were 12 men on the field then the decision to challenge the play was a no-brainer. Why wouldn't a coach challenge a play like that if he information about the 12 men?

So, yeah, Bill Khayat SHOULD be credited for spotting 12 men on the field. It's highly unlikely that Gibbs, or any other head coach, would spot such an infraction while he's concentrating on other things. That's where Khayat comes in. Yes, he gets credit for spotting it, but to say that he told Gibbs to challenge it might be stretching it a little.

How is that a stretch? The most likely scenario is that Khayat or whoever else was in the booth noticed the 12 men and advised Gibbs to challenge the play.

[welch]

but you can't call him arbiter of all things football b/c someone else saw (and verified by a second)

OK, I'll simply call Joe Gibbs the best living football coach. With Lombardi and Brown, one of the three all-time best. Period.

If that's an "arbiter of all things football", then so be it.

Why? Follow the team preparation, no matter whether Gibbs has The Hogs or has patched together second and third-stringers on OL. Whether he has Monk-Clark, or Monk-Brown, or little Moss and somebody else.

Whether he has an over-powering John Riggins, a Clinton "Jet" Portis, or an in-between-sized Ernest Byner.

Simply the best.

(How impressive was Belicheek with Testaverde at Cleveland?)

Simply: how many coaches get so much from their players?

[JPFair]

The Redskins employ a small army of people who observe and analyze situations like the 12-man call, and in this case the process worked as it should. The violation was noticed and Gibbs was advised to challenge the call, which he did. Score one for the good guys.

Please post the link that shows Gibbs was "advised to challenge the call". From what I've read, and maybe I just haven't seen the reporting that you have, but I've only heard that he was "advised" that there were 12 men on the field. I haven't heard anything about him being "advised" to challenge the ruling.

Please post the link where it says that he was advised to challenge the ruling.

[Deadskins]

First of all, do we know for certain that Khayat actually said "THEY HAD 12 MEN ON THE FIELD, CHALLENGE IT"? Somehow, I don't see a Quality Control Coach actually telling Joe Gibbs what to do (no disrespect meant to Khayat).

Well yes, we do know that. Not only was it reported that way (Check the Inside slant thread), but Joe, himself, said it happened that way.

[JPFair]

How is that a stretch? The most likely scenario is that Khayat or whoever else was in the booth noticed the 12 men and advised Gibbs to challenge the play.

It's a stretch because Bill Khayak's job is to spot things like that, and to notify Gibbs. Khayak doesn't tell Gibbs to challenge a play or not to challenge a play. He might give Gibbs the information, but the decision to challenge a play, or just as important, NOT to challenge a play, rests with Gibbs alone. Similarly, Al Saunders calls in the next play for the Offense, and Gibbs can, and often does, veto that play.

Do you think Khayak has ever provided information to Gibbs, for instance, suggested that he might challenge a play, and Gibbs didn't challenge it? I think so! The point is, the decision to challenge the ruling is the issue, at least in my opinion. Gibbs has rightfully credited Khayak with noticing that there were 12 men on the field. However, Gibbs could just as easily refused to challenge it as he could challenge it. In this case, he challenged the ruling...I think not because he was told to challenge it, but because he was told there were 12 men on the field and it was captured on video.

Kudos to Khayak for noticing it, but Khayak didn't challenge the ruling...Gibbs did.

[JPFair]

First of all, do we know for certain that Khayat actually said "THEY HAD 12 MEN ON THE FIELD, CHALLENGE IT"? Somehow, I don't see a Quality Control Coach actually telling Joe Gibbs what to do (no disrespect meant to Khayat).

Well yes, we do know that. Not only was it reported that way (Check the Inside slant thread), but Joe, himself, said it happened that way.

Where's the quote?

[JPFair]

First of all, do we know for certain that Khayat actually said "THEY HAD 12 MEN ON THE FIELD, CHALLENGE IT"? Somehow, I don't see a Quality Control Coach actually telling Joe Gibbs what to do (no disrespect meant to Khayat).

Well yes, we do know that. Not only was it reported that way (Check the Inside slant thread), but Joe, himself, said it happened that way.

Where's the quote?

Here's the "Inside Slant" thread that you refer to.....

Sitting in the coaches' box with Khayat, video assistant Todd Davis quickly confirmed Khayat's belief with pictorial evidence. So Gibbs challenged Collins' fumble and the ball soon returned to the Redskins, who were in danger of having the Vikings fully gain momentum having just scored to cut the lead to 25-14.

"Give credit to Bill Khayat and Todd Davis upstairs for seeing the 12 men on the field," Williams said. That was the big play in the game."

Where does it say that Khayat advised Gibbs to challenge the ruling? I see that it says Khayat and Davis confirmed that there were 12 men on the field with pictorial evidence, but I can't see where it says they told Gibbs to challenge the ruling?

[Deadskins]

First of all, do we know for certain that Khayat actually said "THEY HAD 12 MEN ON THE FIELD, CHALLENGE IT"? Somehow, I don't see a Quality Control Coach actually telling Joe Gibbs what to do (no disrespect meant to Khayat).

Well yes, we do know that. Not only was it reported that way (Check the Inside slant thread), but Joe, himself, said it happened that way.

Where's the quote?

Here's the "Inside Slant" thread that you refer to.....

Sitting in the coaches' box with Khayat, video assistant Todd Davis quickly confirmed Khayat's belief with pictorial evidence. So Gibbs challenged Collins' fumble and the ball soon returned to the Redskins, who were in danger of having the Vikings fully gain momentum having just scored to cut the lead to 25-14.

"Give credit to Bill Khayat and Todd Davis upstairs for seeing the 12 men on the field," Williams said. That was the big play in the game."

Where does it say that Khayat advised Gibbs to challenge the ruling? I see that it says Khayat and Davis confirmed that there were 12 men on the field with pictorial evidence, but I can't see where it says they told Gibbs to challenge the ruling?

I don't have te quote; I heard it at the Gibbs' presser. But you are saying that Inside slant quote doesn't say they told Joe to challenge the ruling? Are you serious? They had pictoral proof, radioed down to Joe, and then said, "I don't know, maybe you should make the call whether or not to challenge. I've got visual evidence, but you can't always trust a photograph to tell the truth. Anyway, it's totally your call, do you want Minnesota to keep the ball?"

[DarthMonk]

Anyone who says that Gibbs doesn't know the rules of football are out of their minds......In this case, it was his knowledge of the rules, i.e. whether you can even challenge such a call, that proved to be the winner in this case.

No one knows if he actually knew this was challengeable. Well, I guess Joe knows if he knew.

Anyway, the challenge in and of itself did not cost the Vikings the game, and conversely, it didn't seal the Redskins victory.

True.

Even if the challenge didn't work, the Redskins were in position to either get a field goal,

This does not make sense.

or at a minimum, pin the Vikings deep in their own territory with a huge mountain to climb. The game did not hinge on this challenge at all...it is just all part of the game,

What yard line were they on? The Redskins 47 I think. The huge mountain was a TD (with 2 pointer) and a FG with 8:59 to go. They could have been within 3 points in the next minute - easily.

and Gibbs should, although he probably won't, get credit for such decision that was pure genius!!

The best line I heard was in my living room. Let's be honest, when Joe threw the flag we all went "Wazzah?? When the ref said what he was challenging my buddy said "This would redeem him on so many levels."

He is now redeemed for the 2 timeout gaffe - if we beat the Cowboys.

DarthMonk

[JPFair]

First of all, do we know for certain that Khayat actually said "THEY HAD 12 MEN ON THE FIELD, CHALLENGE IT"? Somehow, I don't see a Quality Control Coach actually telling Joe Gibbs what to do (no disrespect meant to Khayat).

Well yes, we do know that. Not only was it reported that way (Check the Inside slant thread), but Joe, himself, said it happened that way.

Where's the quote?

Here's the "Inside Slant" thread that you refer to.....

Sitting in the coaches' box with Khayat, video assistant Todd Davis quickly confirmed Khayat's belief with pictorial evidence. So Gibbs challenged Collins' fumble and the ball soon returned to the Redskins, who were in danger of having the Vikings fully gain momentum having just scored to cut the lead to 25-14.

"Give credit to Bill Khayat and Todd Davis upstairs for seeing the 12 men on the field," Williams said. That was the big play in the game."

Where does it say that Khayat advised Gibbs to challenge the ruling? I see that it says Khayat and Davis confirmed that there were 12 men on the field with pictorial evidence, but I can't see where it says they told Gibbs to challenge the ruling?

I don't have te quote; I heard it at the Gibbs' presser. But you are saying that Inside slant quote doesn't say they told Joe to challenge the ruling? Are you serious? They had pictoral proof, radioed down to Joe, and then said, "I don't know, maybe you should make the call whether or not to challenge. I've got visual evidence, but you can't always trust a photograph to tell the truth. Anyway, it's totally your call, do you want Minnesota to keep the ball?"

IMO, you're inferring that Gibbs was told to challenge the ruling, when in fact, no-one, including Gibbs, has said that he was told to challenge the ruling. You're not getting the point that I'm making, which is that Gibbs made the challenge based on the information he received. It was HIS decision to challenge it, NOT the Coaches in the booth. If Gibbs had challenged it and lost, would you have blamed the personnel in the booth, or would you have said it was Gibbs' fault for challenging it?

And, as far as the presser goes, I saw it too, and Gibbs mentioned that he was told that they saw 12 men on the field, not that he should challenge the call. After that, it's up to Gibbs whether to challenge it or not.

[Fios]

First of all, do we know for certain that Khayat actually said "THEY HAD 12 MEN ON THE FIELD, CHALLENGE IT"? Somehow, I don't see a Quality Control Coach actually telling Joe Gibbs what to do (no disrespect meant to Khayat).

Well yes, we do know that. Not only was it reported that way (Check the Inside slant thread), but Joe, himself, said it happened that way.

Where's the quote?

Here's the "Inside Slant" thread that you refer to.....

Sitting in the coaches' box with Khayat, video assistant Todd Davis quickly confirmed Khayat's belief with pictorial evidence. So Gibbs challenged Collins' fumble and the ball soon returned to the Redskins, who were in danger of having the Vikings fully gain momentum having just scored to cut the lead to 25-14.

"Give credit to Bill Khayat and Todd Davis upstairs for seeing the 12 men on the field," Williams said. That was the big play in the game."

Where does it say that Khayat advised Gibbs to challenge the ruling? I see that it says Khayat and Davis confirmed that there were 12 men on the field with pictorial evidence, but I can't see where it says they told Gibbs to challenge the ruling?

I don't have te quote; I heard it at the Gibbs' presser. But you are saying that Inside slant quote doesn't say they told Joe to challenge the ruling? Are you serious? They had pictoral proof, radioed down to Joe, and then said, "I don't know, maybe you should make the call whether or not to challenge. I've got visual evidence, but you can't always trust a photograph to tell the truth. Anyway, it's totally your call, do you want Minnesota to keep the ball?"

IMO, you're inferring that Gibbs was told to challenge the ruling, when in fact, no-one, including Gibbs, has said that he was told to challenge the ruling. You're not getting the point that I'm making, which is that Gibbs made the challenge based on the information he received. It was HIS decision to challenge it, NOT the Coaches in the booth. If Gibbs had challenged it and lost, would you have blamed the personnel in the booth, or would you have said it was Gibbs' fault for challenging it?

And, as far as the presser goes, I saw it too, and Gibbs mentioned that he was told that they saw 12 men on the field, not that he should challenge the call. After that, it's up to Gibbs whether to challenge it or not.

Come on man, clearly they passed that information along to Gibbs with the intent of encouraging him to challenge the call. Did anyone literally command him to make the challenge? No, of course not. You are engaging in an endless splitting of hairs here. Greg Williams is quoted giving the guys in the box credit, let it go.

[CanesSkins26]

It's a stretch because Bill Khayak's job is to spot things like that, and to notify Gibbs. Khayak doesn't tell Gibbs to challenge a play or not to challenge a play. He might give Gibbs the information, but the decision to challenge a play, or just as important, NOT to challenge a play, rests with Gibbs alone. Similarly, Al Saunders calls in the next play for the Offense, and Gibbs can, and often does, veto that play.

Are you serious? What coach in their right mind would have refused to challenge that play after being given information that there were twelve men on the field? Do you think that Khayat radios down to Gibbs after every play and tells him how many men are on the field? He saw 12 men and called down to Gibbs because the play was challengeable (not sure if this is actually a real world). Why else would he have told Gibbs about there being twelve men on the field?

[crazyhorse1]

Anyone who says that Gibbs doesn't know the rules of football are out of their minds. In addition, those that will inevitably say that it wasn't Gibbs who caught the 12 man infraction need to look at it from the proper perspective. The QC coaches job is to transmit that type of information to Gibbs, and it is Gibbs who makes the decision whether to challenge it or not. Passing that type of information to Gibbs happens all game long, and Gibbs is the one who has to decide in a split second whether to challenge it or not. In this case, it was his knowledge of the rules, i.e. whether you can even challenge such a call, that proved to be the winner in this case.

In other words, look at it this way....there were two officials within yards of the player who didn't get off the field in time, and they didn't throw a flag. So, the probability is that this type of thing happens all day long, but credit Gibbs's decision making at the right time that made this challenge work.

Kudos to the QC Coach, but ultimately it's Gibbs who should take the majority of credit for the challenge.

Anyway, the challenge in and of itself did not cost the Vikings the game, and conversely, it didn't seal the Redskins victory. The Redskins dominated every facet of that game, save for a few minutes momentum shift in the 3rd/4th quarter. Even if the challenge didn't work, the Redskins were in position to either get a field goal, or at a minimum, pin the Vikings deep in their own territory with a huge mountain to climb. The game did not hinge on this challenge at all...it is just all part of the game, and Gibbs should, although he probably won't, get credit for such decision that was pure genius!!

No offense, but you fail to make your point. If Gibbs was told by a spotter upstairs that there were too many Vikes on the field at that point, it was an absolute no-brainer to throw the flag. I'd have done it in a heartbeat, and I'm an old slow-thinking man.

Also, it probably did cost the Vikes the game. Without the penalty, we would not have retained the ball to kick a field goal or punt, as you seem to think. The fumble would have given the Vikes the ball and there would have been an extremely high probability they could have continued running through us like we weren't there and scored another touchdown.


That, of course, might have eliminated our last scoring drive, which occured chiefly because the Vikes gave up and played horrible defense after receiving the killing blow. Our last score was essentially a gift. That penalty you think unimportant caused a fourteen point swing.

[Snout]

In the case of the second timeout call, however, Gibbs also had an army of people who were capable of consulting a rule book and not one of them recognized something that was so obvious even the play-by-play announcer realized it.

Didn't Joe ask the official in the Bills game whether he could call a second timeout? I thought he said that he asked the official and the official (erroneously) told him "Yes." Officials are not required to answer questions about the rules during games, and when they do answer, there is no guarantee that they will answer correctly.

The point is that he asked someone who supposedly knew the answer, and he relied on the information he received.

Would it have been better to ask another member of the coaching staff? Or is it better to try asking one of the officials directly? How many coaches doublecheck what an official tells them before making a call?

It is testament to Joe's character that he blamed himself when he could have made a much bigger deal about how the official gave him the wrong information.

[DarthMonk]

In the case of the second timeout call, however, Gibbs also had an army of people who were capable of consulting a rule book and not one of them recognized something that was so obvious even the play-by-play announcer realized it.

Didn't Joe ask the official in the Bills game whether he could call a second timeout? I thought he said that he asked the official and the official (erroneously) told him "Yes." Officials are not required to answer questions about the rules during games, and when they do answer, there is no guarantee that they will answer correctly.

Though this one did. See below.

The point is that he asked someone who supposedly knew the answer, and he relied on the information he received.

Would it have been better to ask another member of the coaching staff? Or is it better to try asking one of the officials directly? How many coaches doublecheck what an official tells them before making a call?

It is testament to Joe's character that he blamed himself when he could have made a much bigger deal about how the official gave him the wrong information.

Nothing wrong with the official's info. Notice the timeout call was honored as play was stopped. Joe just needed to ask one more question.

"OK. So I can call another timeout. Will we be penalized for it?"

Joe flat out blew that one. He got the 12 man one right.

DarthMonk

[Irn-Bru]

Nothing wrong with the official's info. Notice the timeout call was honored as play was stopped. Joe just needed to ask one more question.

"OK. So I can call another timeout. Will we be penalized for it?"

Joe flat out blew that one. He got the 12 man one right.

An incomplete truth can be deceptive. In my opinion the ref should have told him that consecutive timeouts are a penalty, although I admit (like everyone else, including Gibbs) that he wasn't under obligation to do so.

That's why this is a non-issue and non-debate, really. Gibbs has taken the blame for it. All people are pointing out in this thread is that it's understandable how it happened, which is why "flat out blew it" (even though Gibbs himself would accept that description) isn't the whole story—nor is it very precise.

[VetSkinsFan]

What good would it have done to blame the official? Nothing would have come out of it; he knew that. The officials aren't there as consultants to the HC, they are there to officiate the onfield action. It would have been nothing but whining if he would have cried about the official. I've never dounted JG's character, and never will. It's the playtime decisions that have me wondering....

[Bob 0119]

I don't think the official "erroniously" told him yes. I think the official told him yes, as in "yes, you can" but left out the part about the 15 yard penalty.

Everyone made such a big deal about that, and it amazes me how fluent everyone else seemed to be on the rules. I didn't know you would get a 15 yard penalty for calling a second timeout.

Don't even try to say "oh, well I play Madden, so that's how I knew" I play Madden too, and I know it won't let you call two consecutive timeouts, but I didn't know about the 15-yard penalty.

On top of all of that, there seems to be a general misconception, that it was that 15-yard penalty that cost us the game. The kicker nailed it on the first timeout, he would have nailed it again.

What cost us the game was the defense giving up that big pass play that put them in field goal range.

The argument that the refs aren't responsible for "explaining the rules" may be true, but they do it all the time. The most common is on challenges. You'll see them pick up the coaches' red flag, walk over to the sideline and explain why they can't challenge the call on the field. They don't charge them a timeout, they don't charge them a challenge, they simply say "hey coach, you can't challenge this play" and then explain why. That's the most common example of the refs explaining the rules to the coaches, but watch NFL Films sometime and you'll see it's pretty common for coaches to ask the officials about what they can, and can't do.

Sure, it may not have been the refs' job to explain it to Gibbs, but it was shady of him to say "sure" knowing he was setting the coach up for a penalty. It would have been just as easy for him to say "sure, but it'll cost you 15-yards." If the ref told him "erroniously" then which is more disturbing the coach for not knowing the rules, or the ref (who is supposed to enforce them) not knowing the rules?

Gibbs may not have been soley responsible for challenging the 12 men on the field, but who knew that was even challengable? I thought you could only challenge possesion, and forward progress. He trusted his coaches in the booth, and made the right decision.

[Snout]

An incomplete truth can be deceptive. In my opinion the ref should have told him that consecutive timeouts are a penalty, although I admit (like everyone else, including Gibbs) that he wasn't under obligation to do so.

Exactly. Most people when they ask "Can I do this?" mean "Can I do this without being penalized?"

Reminds me of Chris Webber trying to call timeout against North Carolina when Michigan didn't have any timeouts left. Can you call for time out when your team doesn't have any timeouts left? Sure you can! But it is a technical foul . . .

In context of the game, the circumstances that the question was asked, and the way the answer was going to be interpreted, the official's response was a wrong answer -- even if it was technically correct.