At what point does Collins become the starter?

wormer · Post by **wormer** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:22 am

Ok- so I know this is a long shot, not to mention a LONG way off, but seriously, at what point would YOU make Collins the starter going into next year?

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:04 pm

wormer wrote:Ok- so I know this is a long shot, not to mention a LONG way off, but seriously, at what point would YOU make Collins the starter going into next year?

At some point after he signs a contract :wink:

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:17 pm

When Jason Campbell receives a career ending injury and whatever QB we got to replace him for next year gets hurt.

skinsRin · Post by **skinsRin** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:18 pm

Never! He should only start for the remainder of this season. Jason is our future!

welch · Post by **welch** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:23 pm

Three games ago. :lol:

I sense that Collins is a better QB right bnow than Campbell. However, Campbell will never learn if he sits.

Does anyone else feel that, given the difference in the way the two handle the offense, the Redskins would have a could more wins if Collins had started all year? Of those, like me, does anyone else feel that starting Collins all year would throw away the future?

Does anyone else think that Gibbs knows so thoroughly what it takes that he ignores all squeals from the fair-weather fans? That Gibbs wants to settle the foundation -- which is Jason Campbell -- no matter how many ignorant newspaper columns are written to say that he has suddenly lost his mind?

absinthe1023 · Post by **absinthe1023** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:46 pm

welch wrote:Three games ago.

I sense that Collins is a better QB right bnow than Campbell. However, Campbell will never learn if he sits.

Does anyone else feel that, given the difference in the way the two handle the offense, the Redskins would have a could more wins if Collins had started all year? Of those, like me, does anyone else feel that starting Collins all year would throw away the future?

Does anyone else think that Gibbs knows so thoroughly what it takes that he ignores all squeals from the fair-weather fans? That Gibbs wants to settle the foundation -- which is Jason Campbell -- no matter how many ignorant newspaper columns are written to say that he has suddenly lost his mind?

I agree with you that Campbell is the future. I also think that his development has been delayed as a result of a pared-down playbook when he's in the lineup.
Saunders calls a vastly different game with respect to passing when Collins is in the game.
There were more deep passes in the Chicago game and Minnesota game than in all of Campbell's combined starts.

At some point, this coaching staff needs to take the training wheels off and let Campbell have access to the entire playbook.
He needs the freedom to make the inevitable mistakes that come with the learning process.
In Dallas, Romo is given the freedom and the breadth of playcalling to put up the occasional 5 INT game, but the game experience he gains from these experiences allows him to post many 3 TD 0 INT games as well. It seems like the 'Skins are attempting to shield Campbell somewhat. As long as this trend in playcalling continues, we'll see more ho-hum performances from Campbell; he won't be "allowed" to throw 3 INTs but the same conservative mindset will also prevent him from throwing 3 TDs.

We all know that he has an immensely strong arm, but how will he ever develop more touch on the long ball or more rapport with Moss if he's only allowed to go deep 1-3 times per game?

welch · Post by **welch** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:01 pm

We all know that he has an immensely strong arm, but how will he ever develop more touch on the long ball or more rapport with Moss if he's only allowed to go deep 1-3 times per game?

Next season, I think. Bit by bit, watching film, and loosening up.

My impression isn't that Collins is throwing long so much as that he sees more options than Campbell. Collins has studied this offense for ten years (or so).

Next year, a little more.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:35 pm

This is the most stupid poll I've seen since my old friend ATV left.

1fan4ramsey · Post by **1fan4ramsey** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:48 pm

You ride Collins out for this year, he has earned it, and you start next year with Campbell at qb. Is there any other way to look at it, seems pretty clear to me.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:24 pm

1fan4ramsey wrote:You ride Collins out for this year, he has earned it, and you start next year with Campbell at qb. Is there any other way to look at it, seems pretty clear to me.

Agreed completely.

jeremyroyce · Post by **jeremyroyce** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:53 pm

In my opinion Jason Campbell is the starter, however I would think that maybe Collins should finish off the year as the starter, and allow Campbell to heal

welch · Post by **welch** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:43 pm

Right. Next year, when his knee is healed fully. Then he studies, and, I hope, begins to pick his receivers quicker.

To repeat myself...other young Gibbs QB's dropped into a lineup with the Hogs, George Rogers/John Roggins/Kelvin Bryant running, and Monk and frinds as receivers.

Campbell has none of those benefits.

Quick question: Joe Theiosmann was badly hurt, and Jay Schroeder immediately completed a 40 yard pass. Who caught it?

Art Monk. The Future Hall of Famer. Imagine Art Monk on this team, and imagine how much better Campbell would look.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:49 pm

welch wrote:Imagine Art Monk on this team, and imagine how much better Campbell would look.

You got that right!

That being said, I will play the what if game:
> What if Collins play well against the Cowturds and the Skins make the playoffs and Campbell is physically ready to play the first play off game?

Do you start him in Seattle in that extremely loud crowd.

> What if he isn't ready for the Chawks and Collins plays well again and Campbell is ready for the Cowturds?

Do you start Campbell in Texas stadium after Collins has just won 5 straight?

I think the answer to all of those questions is HECK NO!

Campbell gets a chance to get his job back after the last game of this season for the Skins, regular or post season!

wormer · Post by **wormer** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:38 am

KazooSkinsFan wrote:This is the most stupid poll I've seen since my old friend ATV left.

That's why I gave you the "smoking" option :-)

wormer · Post by **wormer** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:40 am

So seriously....

If Collins leads the Skins to a Super Bowl victory many of you don't think he should be/will be the starter next season?

welch · Post by **welch** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:51 am

To answer the questions, I would start Collins for the rest of the year, and let Campbell heal. No matter what, I don't believe optimistic reports of knee injuries.

Furthermore, Collins understands the offense. Campbell is still learning. Go with Collins...

if we beat Dallas!

RedskinsFreak · Post by **RedskinsFreak** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:45 am

There's no way JC starts any game that's left to be played this season.

This playoff run has been made on the heart and resolve of the players, the class of Joe Gibbs and the inate comfort level of Todd Collins at the wheel of this offense.

SKINS#1 · Post by **SKINS#1** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:52 pm

I hope Competition determines who is the starter. As of today it is Collins. Next year I hope both QB have an opportunity to prove himself and let the best man win. The QB has to prove himself with the receivers he has on the team. Good luck to both.

old-timer · Post by **old-timer** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:10 pm

When should Collins be the starter? Three games ago.

That's no joke. Collins should have been the starter since game 1 based on his performance in the pre-season. I said it then and people scoffed. Honestly, if Collins had been the starter since then, how many more games would we have won without Campbell's rookie mistakes? I think at least two or three. I don't see how anyone who has objectively watched the complete turnaround of this team under Collins could come to any other conclusion. This team is like the Gibbs teams of old with Collins under center, which should tell us why Gibbs always prefers vets.

I sense that Collins is a better QB right bnow than Campbell.

Right now, Collins is the better QB by far and he has been since preseason. Campbell is still learning and he may or may not turn out to be a pro QB; leaving him in at this stage is just setting him up for bad game experience and leaving him exposed to career ending injuries. It's bad timing to push him in as a starter. Collins' preseason performance was no fluke; he has won every game he started, plus one in relief. I say he starts until he starts to sputter or is injured.

Does anyone else feel that, given the difference in the way the two handle the offense, the Redskins would have a could more wins if Collins had started all year? Of those, like me, does anyone else feel that starting Collins all year would throw away the future?

We would have won at least two or three more with Collins and without Jason's poorly thrown long balls, bad decisions, and fumbles. Not starting Campbell when he is not ready is not throwing away the future; it's preserving it. Collins will only be usable for a couple more years at most, and Campbell needs to learn from him if he is going to be the best he can be and not another wasted talent.

Does anyone else think that Gibbs knows so thoroughly what it takes that he ignores all squeals from the fair-weather fans? That Gibbs wants to settle the foundation -- which is Jason Campbell -- no matter how many ignorant newspaper columns are written to say that he has suddenly lost his mind?

These last three games have reminded me that Gibbs has forgotten more football than any football fan ever knew. He should ignore us all completely and I'm sure he does.

People forget that under Gibbs QB's have always had to fight for playing time or wait until an injury gives them their chance. For some reason, Campbell had the starting job given to him before he was ready. IMHO Gibbs 2.0 stayed too long with Brunell and he made a mistake picking Campbell over Collins. Campbell still has huge difficulty with the long ball, for example, and his mechanics with regard to holding the football are obviously suspect. He clearly has huge talent, more than Collins, but it is raw talent and not there yet. It takes a lot more than physical talent to make a great QB. Campbell will benefit greatly from this chance to sit back down and work and think through the things about his game that need to be improved. He'll be ready when he gets his chance next time, I think, but that should not be until next season unless Collins gets hurt.

aswas71788 · Post by **aswas71788** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:32 pm

I would stick with Collins because right now he is doing a very creditable job. There is no hurry to get Campbell back in. Let him rest his knee and get it fully recovered and be ready for next year. He can learn a lot in the remainder of this year by watching Collins run Saunders offense the way it is supposed to be run.

I have noticed several things with Collins as the quarterback; first there are fewer dropped passes, second the pass rush is less because he gets rid of the ball faster, third he throws to a spot rather than the receiver, fourth the variety of plays called is greater, fifth we are scoring more points per game, and sixth we are more agressive in the second half of the games.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:35 pm

2 weeks ago I would have thought the following opinion was impossible :shock:

I think that Collins is the starting QB for the rest of this season unless he plays badly and Campbell is fit enough to get back in - I really hope that Campbell is seeing what can happen when you do what Collins is doing - Campbell has all the potential BUT he better get a lot more comfortable with what Saunders and Gibbs want from their QB or we are going to have to look elsewhere.

Collins is the starter until Campbell or someone else can come in and do a better job - Campbell will get that opportunity next season but not for long if he does not do what Collins has showed can be done with this offensive line and this scheme.

welch · Post by **welch** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 6:23 pm

I have noticed several things with Collins as the quarterback; first there are fewer dropped passes, second the pass rush is less because he gets rid of the ball faster, third he throws to a spot rather than the receiver, fourth the variety of plays called is greater, fifth we are scoring more points per game, and sixth we are more aggressive in the second half of the games.

Yes to all, and to the immediate post that suggested Collins starts training as number one.

The last is hard to accept, but probably correct. Campbell still has a lot to learn, and the rest of the team is not strong enough to give him the time.

What I notice most is that Collins seems to know where to throw. A quick scan.

Assuming that can be learned -- and I don't think that Gibbs and Bugel believed Ramsey could learn it -- then Campbell is still the future.

But (hands shaking as I type) maybe Collins keeps the job until Campbell outplays him.

(Something I would never have imagined six months ago!)

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:33 pm

Collins is the starter now, obviously, and will be the starter as long as he keeps it up. He's won one NFL offensive player of the week award and there's reason to hope he'll win a second for last week's game.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:44 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:Collins is the starter now, obviously, and will be the starter as long as he keeps it up. He's won one NFL offensive player of the week award and there's reason to hope he'll win a second for last week's game.

The other benefit is that he now has HUGE credibility with Campbell as a mentor in this system. You can be sure that, when he speaks, Campbell will be listening.

While Collins has low mileage, he is still an older QB, who can't be expected to last a lot longer.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:39 am

Campbell will hopefully learn from this experience - he has all the physical attributes and hopefully will be a lot more comfortable with the game plan and what is required of him for that to work like he is seeeing on the field.

Campbell will get a lot of support from Collins and Collins I'm sure is getting a lot of support from both Saunders and Gibbs - these 2 will know which of the 2 gives them the better chance of success for now.

There is little point in thinking about or planning for next year - that will be here soon enough :wink:

Collins is getting ready to start - the D will be fired up to pressure Romo - It's Dallas week in ol' DC - bring it on - this is just unbelievable that we should be playing so well together - I'm sure the players will be sky high on Sunday as will the fans
can you imagine the noise if the Saints have lost and the stupid Broncos start beating the Vikings :lol:

The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era