Irn-Bru wrote:crazyhorse1 wrote:Both Christians and liberals are pragmatists. Christians act in fear of hell and hope of heaven, and liberals act because they believe their behavior wil create a more secure and democratic society in which they can share.
In short, both believe that they are subject to Karmic law: What goes around, comes around.
I don't think you understand the Christian faith very well. . .
Christians are flat out compelled by diety to behave in particular ways. If they satisfy certain reguirements they are rewarded; if they do not, they are punished or not rewarded. They have the free will to behave as they choose, according to doctrine, but are not free to behave as they will without consequence.
Christians have burned tens of thousands for non-compliance on earth in order to save their souls, and in relation to the eternal, believe only belief in Christ and acceptance of him and sometimes good works can save them from hell and deliver them into heaven. The decision to accept Christ as a personal savior then is a pragmatic one and preached as such from Rome to Alabama.
Is your problem with my statement the use of the term "Karmic" law in relation to Christian theology?
Here a definition of "Karma" from Merriam-Webster:
1often capitalized : the force generated by a person's actions held in Hinduism and Buddhism to perpetuate transmigration and in its ethical consequences to determine the nature of the person's next existence
Christianity is not Hinduism or Buddhism of course, but the active meaning of the word may obviously be applied to Christianity, the transmigration being the soul's passage from earthly existence to eternal existence's heaven or hell or pergatory based on ethical precepts.
The similarities of Christianity and Eastern religions are believed by Egyptologists to have come about through the agency of the Egyptian Sun God, Horan, as a personification of a cosmic view developed as a result of astrological discoveries in ancient Egypt involving the sun and constellations. As astrology spread to Rome and to Asia alike, so did the cosmic view embodied by Horan.
Horan was born on December 25 th of a virgin mother, had a star and stars called "three kings" mark his birth place, became a teacher as a child, had 12 disciples, performed miracles, was martyred, and rose from the dead after 3 days. Sound familiar.
The metaphoric life of Horan traced the sun's path throught the zodiac, e.g., Virgo (the virgin), etc.. Horan was the light of the world, the King of Kings, etc.
But, I begin to digress. The Karma of Hinduism and Buddhism and Christianity have a common origin and even today the concept is identical in all three. That accounts for the essential pragmatism of all three religions. The Karmic force is the force of the cosmos, the will of all things or God, if you will. The objective is to flow with it, to flow with the will of God or be crused. What goes around, comes around. Even pre- and post Christian agans under the influence of these ideas specified that a person would be punished three fold for flowing against the will of the universe.
To flow with the will of the universe means to flow in harmony with the natural world and man. Hence such teachings as "Do unto others as ye would have them do unto you, or the injunctions to all everyone is his brother's keeper.
This collective unity is obedience to Karma and increases one's personal power. It is the original of the effigacy of congregational worship and fellowship. Christ and his disciples were models of this drive for unity and the first Christian colonies in America faced the wilderness armed with the concept and so survived.
These notions have been part of our essential cultural and polical heritage for well over two thousand years and have led us respect for equality, democracy, etc. and are part of the foundation of Liberal thought. The forces against it or disrespect of it are disinterest in the collective good, fascism, war, Kings, and other anti-democratic forces.
Christianity and Liberalism are hand in glove and pragmatic. True conservatism, in that it supports traditions and serves as a check against too quick evolution of government and irresponsible war making and spending, is also responsibility pragmatic.
Phony conservatives, such as those that presently inhabit the halls of power, are in direct opposition to the collective will of this country and the world. They are anti-Christian, anti-democatic, profligate in spending, war making by choice, torturers, and oblivious to the effect of their policies on others and eventually themselves. They are anti-pragmatists, and proceed by denying reality.
Every year, the sun works it way to death and then resurrection, symbolically. Symbolically, it is purpose driven, or pragmatic. A current best-selling Christian screed is titled "The Purpose Driven Life."
It is very revealing the phony conservative of today supports President Bush.
Bush is still changing his mind about why he has invaded Irag and done almost nothing but destroy the finer thing about our country. One thing's for certain: he has never acted in obedience to the collective will, even though he has tried to dishonestly mold it.
Most likely, the war is simply a byproduct of trying to grab wealth and power for himself and his friends, which is also why he has been quite aggessive in shattering the environment and the economy, as well as in regard to attacking valued concepts finding expression in the Bill of Rights.
That's not what is meant by "The Purpose Driven Life."
JSPB22 wrote:If you'll give me an honest answer as to your libertarian views of these two quotes from the time-line, I'll leave you alone.
