Punting out of bounds to be illegal?

BearSkins · Post by **BearSkins** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:29 pm

Interesting thought but I dunno that it will fly. I kinda like to see guys aim for the ol' coffin corner although most guys seem incapable these days. Still, an interesting idea. Any thoughts?

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-071206pompei,1,1601877.column?coll=cs-home-headlines

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:52 pm

I never did understand why that was illegal on kickoffs but not on punts. Although I fully support kicking it wayyyyyyyyy out of bounds when Hester is returning punts

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:04 pm

I think it should stay the way it is. I see kickoffs and punts as totally separate things and please don't ask me why or how.... lol

This is just another ploy for them to drive up ratings and the "excitement" factor.

LOSTHOG · Post by **LOSTHOG** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:25 pm

I think they way it was wrote by the columnist was interesting. I wouldn't mind a rule as long as they did exclude inside the twenty yard line. Also, it is my humble opinion that the fair catch should be trashed on punts. Mike Nelms never used it, but now you see it on probably as much as 70% of all punt returns.

BearSkins · Post by **BearSkins** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:20 pm

LOSTHOG wrote:I think they way it was wrote by the columnist was interesting. I wouldn't mind a rule as long as they did exclude inside the twenty yard line.

Yeah, that could be interesting, teh 20yd thing. I love to see a punt being downed inside the 20 or going out of bounds at the 1 - and that's just as much a skill as punt returning is.

RedskinsFreak · Post by **RedskinsFreak** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:57 am

No. To this day, I've never understood the infatuation with pooch punting, when going for the coffin corner has been around for ages -- and serves the same purpose.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:34 am

That's absurd. Kickoffs are designed to start play. Punts are designed for teams to gain field position.

Now, I'd be interested in entertaining the XFL punt rules. I believe they were the punt returner was granted a five-yard halo with no fair-catches allowed, and any punt past twenty-five yards was a live ball. That's old-school right there.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:06 pm

Steve Spurrier III wrote:That's absurd. Kickoffs are designed to start play. Punts are designed for teams to gain field position.

Now, I'd be interested in entertaining the XFL punt rules. I believe they were the punt returner was granted a five-yard halo with no fair-catches allowed, and any punt past twenty-five yards was a live ball. That's old-school right there.

I'm intrigued by the live-ball rule—that would essentially make NFL punting plays look a little more like Rugby punting plays.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:01 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:I'm intrigued by the live-ball rule—that would essentially make NFL punting plays look a little more like Rugby punting plays.

Yeah, it was an interesting twist - teams would occasionally quick-kick on third down in attempts to recover. The rule didn't feel like something "Xtreme", but rather a throw-back, 1920's type rule. I liked it, although I'm not entirely sure I'd want the NFL to adopt it.

On a semi-related not, does anyone know if a drop-kick is legal past the line of scrimmage? I believe it's not, although it might be in Canada. That would be a neat rule.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:36 pm

The drop-kick is legal from anywhere on the field. If it goes through the uprights, it's 3 points.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:45 pm

Steve Spurrier III wrote:I believe it's not, although it might be in Canada

You NEVER know what those crazy Canadians are going to do, everything's mixed up there. Gotta love 'em though. My favorite States are Hawaii and Canada.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:17 pm

JSPB22 wrote:The drop-kick is legal from anywhere on the field. If it goes through the uprights, it's 3 points.

That's awesome. If a team is down by one, but out of field goal range, I could envision a situation where after advancing the ball through traditional means, they could lateral back to the quarterback and attempt a game-winning drop kick. That would be incredible.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:17 pm

JSPB22 wrote:The drop-kick is legal from anywhere on the field. If it goes through the uprights, it's 3 points.

Where are you seeing that? I've heard it before, but I'm looking over the (poorly laid out) rule digest at NFL.com, and I can't find anything on that. One intriguing sentence is this one:

On a safety kick, the team scored upon puts ball in play by a punt, dropkick, or placekick without tee. No score can be made on a free kick following a safety, even if a series of penalties places team in position. (A field goal can be scored only on a play from scrimmage or a free kick after a fair catch.)

It even mentions the bizarre and, as far as I know, never-used rule of the free kick, but not dropkicks. I can't find any evidence that a drop kick in the middle of the field, if it goes through the uprights, will count for 3 points.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:21 pm

Well, I just found this:

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/relea ... se_id=1481

Maybe the NFL.com's rulebook digest is incomplete. (I also might simply be missing it).

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:25 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
JSPB22 wrote:The drop-kick is legal from anywhere on the field. If it goes through the uprights, it's 3 points.

Where are you seeing that? I've heard it before, but I'm looking over the (poorly laid out) rule digest at NFL.com, and I can't find anything on that. One intriguing sentence is this one:

On a safety kick, the team scored upon puts ball in play by a punt, dropkick, or placekick without tee. No score can be made on a free kick following a safety, even if a series of penalties places team in position. (A field goal can be scored only on a play from scrimmage or a free kick after a fair catch.)

It even mentions the bizarre and, as far as I know, never-used rule of the free kick, but not dropkicks. I can't find any evidence that a drop kick in the middle of the field, if it goes through the uprights, will count for 3 points.

A free kick means you can kick in any fashion (by a punt, dropkick, or placekick without tee). The rule you cited is just saying if your free kick happened to go through the opponents uprights, no field goal would be scored. I'll try to find you the exact rule pertaining to drop-kick being allowed anywhere on the field.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:30 pm

On a safety kick, the team scored upon puts ball in play by a punt, dropkick, or placekick without tee.

On this note - I don't understand why teams always opt for a punt. Wouldn't teams be able to generate more distance on a placekick without a tee?

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:57 pm

Apparently I was wrong about a drop kick being legal beyond the LOS.

Kicks From Scrimmage
Any kick from scrimmage must be made from behind the line to be legal.

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/kicksfromscrimmage

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm

Steve Spurrier III wrote:
On a safety kick, the team scored upon puts ball in play by a punt, dropkick, or placekick without tee.

On this note - I don't understand why teams always opt for a punt. Wouldn't teams be able to generate more distance on a placekick without a tee?

I would think that too, but w/o a tee means that you would need a holder, which is one less man in coverage immediately headed downfield, and also bunched in the middle with the kicker.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:02 pm

True, but that doesn't seem to be a significant problem when a man has to hold a ball due to wind.

Also, look at these rules pertaining to extra-points:

1. After a touchdown, the scoring team is allowed a try during one scrimmage down. The ball may be spotted anywhere between the inbounds lines, two or more yards from the goal line. The successful conversion counts one point by kick; two points for a successful conversion by touchdown; or one point for a safety.

2. The defensive team never can score on a try. As soon as defense gets possession or the kick is blocked or a touchdown is not scored, the try is over.

Can someone reconcile this? If the defensive team can't score, and the play is dead once the defense gets possession (rules I don't care for, but that's a separate matter) - how could a team score on a safety? Surely the don't mean if the offensive team takes an intentional safety they get a point?

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:04 pm

Steve Spurrier III wrote:True, but that doesn't seem to be a significant problem when a man has to hold a ball due to wind.

That is still off a tee. FGs are w/o tees, but the longest still travel farther than most punts. But punts also provide more hang-time, and allow the coverage to get downfield.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:12 pm

JSPB22 wrote:FGs are w/o tees, but the longest still travel farther than most punts.

Sure. But a kickoff without a tee would go farther than even field goals, as the kicker can take a longer stride.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:10 pm

Steve Spurrier III wrote:
JSPB22 wrote:FGs are w/o tees, but the longest still travel farther than most punts.

Sure. But a kickoff without a tee would go farther than even field goals, as the kicker can take a longer stride.

I'm guessing it's the hang-time thing.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:50 pm

Steve Spurrier III wrote:
2. The defensive team never can score on a try. As soon as defense gets possession or the kick is blocked or a touchdown is not scored, the try is over.

Can someone reconcile this? If the defensive team can't score, and the play is dead once the defense gets possession (rules I don't care for, but that's a separate matter) - how could a team score on a safety? Surely the don't mean if the offensive team takes an intentional safety they get a point?

I saw that while looking for rules on dropkicks and it confused me as well. I'm interested to hear the rationale for that. (Actually, I have several questions about the way things are worded in the rule book.)

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:42 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
Steve Spurrier III wrote:
2. The defensive team never can score on a try. As soon as defense gets possession or the kick is blocked or a touchdown is not scored, the try is over.

Can someone reconcile this? If the defensive team can't score, and the play is dead once the defense gets possession (rules I don't care for, but that's a separate matter) - how could a team score on a safety? Surely the don't mean if the offensive team takes an intentional safety they get a point?

I saw that while looking for rules on dropkicks and it confused me as well. I'm interested to hear the rationale for that. (Actually, I have several questions about the way things are worded in the rule book.)

In this case a safety must be scored by losing posession to the defense outside the endzone, then having the defender cross the goal line of his own volition and be tackled in the endzone for a safety.

welch · Post by **welch** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:13 am

It used to be that a team could try a FG and the opponent got the ball wherever the kick stopped. Usually, a FG attempt will run through the back of the endzone.

In those days, the defender would station a returner in the endzone just in case. In fact, it used to be (still is???) legal to jump and swat a kick away from the cross-bar. Seems to me that San Francisco had a DB who could really jump; they tried he blocked FG sometimes.

The current rule says, I think, that a missed FG returns to the point of the kick. Thus, it can't be used in place of a punt. If you miss from 50 yards out, you miss big.