We Suck

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:44 am

666 said it pretty simple.. we need a GM.. Snyder obviously can't make those decisions and neither can his "yes man" Cerrato. They are just horrible indeed. Still though, Snyder's our owner and even though his decision making is off, we have to support him because look how much revenue he's bringing in.. :roll:

*jerk*

I'd like to put my $8 bottle of beer up his you know what!

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:01 pm

hailskins666 wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:Is the temper tantrum over yet? All I see is something I'd ground my 7yo for... throwing a fit.....
maybe you should beat his ass while you're at it, big guy.

You're the one throwing the tantrum there, Mr Glock .40, not me, and not my 7yo.....

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:06 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:If the Redskins took about 3 years to rebuild with strong drafts and young free agents we could be a powerhouse again.

I do not think that the lynching MOB of whiners and complainers is ready for ANY period of 3 years to wait on team building. They will be throwing anybody and everybody to the lions a lot sooner than that.

Th lynching MOB is already so ANGRY, FRUSTRATED and DESPERATE that after a year or two of "re-building" they will ask to "blow" the team yet again.

Happily, Joe Gibbs will be here next year whether the lynching MOB likes or not. MOBS have never been the best or most intelligent way to advance the course of any organization in history.

andyjens89 · Post by **andyjens89** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:08 pm

At least we aren't Miami :lol:

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:15 pm

andyjens89 wrote:At least we aren't Miami

Oh my gosh your so right!!!

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:17 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:
Skinsfan55 wrote:If the Redskins took about 3 years to rebuild with strong drafts and young free agents we could be a powerhouse again.
I do not think that the lynching MOB of whiners and complainers is ready for ANY period of 3 years to wait on team building. They will be throwing anybody and everybody to the lions a lot sooner than that.

Th lynching MOB is already so ANGRY, FRUSTRATED and DESPERATE that after a year or two of "re-building" they will ask to "blow" the team yet again.

Happily, Joe Gibbs will be here next year whether the lynching MOB likes or not. MOBS have never been the best or most intelligent way to advance the course of any organization in history.

I don't want Gibbs coaching this team past this season and I would be more than happy to wait through a rebuilding process that allowed this franchise to have sustainable success.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:45 pm

Fios wrote:I don't want Gibbs coaching this team past this season and I would be more than happy to wait through a rebuilding process that allowed this franchise to have sustainable success.

Gladly, Joe is a man of his word and he will fulfill his contract. Five years was his commitment to this team and five years is my commitment to him.

I really do not know and I really doubt that things will get radically better next year. My problems with the team remain the same:

1) Owner and front office structure with the wrong personnel;

2) Recruiting and signing priorities; and

3) Public relations with the fans.

Taking Joe Gibbs out of the equation DOES NOT FOR ONE SECOND change anything of substance above. Perhaps even the opposite:

a) The owner and his geniuses go back to recruit and play fantasy game;

b) The few voices who have btrought some good players go away; and

c) The fans will get even more of the wrong end of the stick if not the WHOLE of it.

Why do you people INSIST in making Joe responsible for the FUNDAMENTAL problem affecting this team?

Surely, Joe being his worst critic, will agree with you that he has not done the best job he could. He will tell you that he is responsible for everything. He will be glad to accept all blame. Truth be told, he deserves PART of it. But certainly the most FUNDAMENTAL problems of this franchise have a lot less to do with him than with others.

This season has been a tragedy from several perspectives. Injuries have crippled us, now tragedy, execution of plays has been abysmal, etc etc. You in all honesty can not lay all blame on Joe. If anything, he has been a person saving this franchise from the abyss. People forget what kind of shape we ere in when he came back.

Just to pick an example, most people want to lynch Joe because he made a mistake last Sunday. He did. It was a terrible one. I only ask one question:

How about the play before the time out sequences which allowed the Bills to come within FG range, the lack of pressure on the Bills QB, the interceptions, the fumbles, the lack of holes for an otherwise 1,500 yard RB, the lack of fairly easy interceptions not made, etc etc???

There have been a few lessons taught by Philthy and the Raisins. If you have a strong and aggressive DL, you can put even Tom Brady in trouble. If you do not, well, we all know what happens when he gets a few more seconds. I BEGGED over the entire offseason to ADD some help for our DL.

YOU and Skinsfreak argued ENDLESSLY that if the coaches had decided otherwise, they knew better. Who were we to judge otherwise, right???

Well, dear friend, among people who respect each other's intellect and honesty: Is it not TIME for you to accept that you were WRONG instead of changing allegiances now???

You ask for honesty in the media to accept their mistakes when they make them. Is this good enough for others or is it good enough for you too???

Just asking.

Oh! I forgot. Do you want me to bring back the threads where we discussed these issues? Just asking again ...

:wink:

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:51 pm

Moving to "Smack" anyone? This convo would be sooo much better with profanity.. :twisted:

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:00 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:Moving to "Smack" anyone? This convo would be sooo much better with profanity..

I disagree. We are quite capable to deal on issues of substance without the distractions of childish insults. This is for real.

Gnome · Post by **Gnome** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:24 pm

Okay. Today is a good day to talk about why we suck, again, for the 15th year in a row (minus a few 10-6 odditys)

I agree with Redskins in the Great White North. Losing Joe isn't the answer. Mainly for the top 3 unchangable reasons.

But Gibbs is not a great game day coach right now. He's got too much on his plate dealing with his role as President of the team.

The Skins need Gibbs as team President. And a new head coach on the sidelines who has tunnel vision on the game, who the players fear, and who can master game day strat. And it's not Greg Williams. He's the head coach of the D and they just flat out get beat too often when the game is on the line. Sunday and that late long pass is the perfect example. He's making just as many bad calls. But there's the pickle. Gibbs' steps up and someone else get the HC role and Greg quits and we're in a mess.

Maybe I'm being a homer or a dreamer, but I'd love to see Russ Grimm as the HC at Redskins Park to put some anger and passion back in this team. Gibbs is the nicest, hardest working man on the face of the planet. And obviously that doesn't work unless you have Peyton Manning running your team. Grimm is young and aggresive and is primed to be the man.

Would you trade Williams for Grimm though? And would JG as President solely be good for the team? I don't know. But something has got to give. They are who they are. 26-34 over the past 3 and 3/4 seasons.

Time for Joe to make a change. And also a few recievers who actually get open and Defensive ends who do more than dance with the offensive line might help too.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:12 pm

Fios wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:
Skinsfan55 wrote:If the Redskins took about 3 years to rebuild with strong drafts and young free agents we could be a powerhouse again.
I do not think that the lynching MOB of whiners and complainers is ready for ANY period of 3 years to wait on team building. They will be throwing anybody and everybody to the lions a lot sooner than that.

Th lynching MOB is already so ANGRY, FRUSTRATED and DESPERATE that after a year or two of "re-building" they will ask to "blow" the team yet again.

Happily, Joe Gibbs will be here next year whether the lynching MOB likes or not. MOBS have never been the best or most intelligent way to advance the course of any organization in history.

I don't want Gibbs coaching this team past this season and I would be more than happy to wait through a rebuilding process that allowed this franchise to have sustainable success.

I agree with you, Mr. Cup.

EasyMoney · Post by **EasyMoney** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:21 pm

How many times can all of us say "man, that was a tough way to lose"? Too many for me to count. Everyone is justified in their frustration. I sincerely thought this was a 9 to 10 win team and I can't help but think that someone or something is holding them back.

How many times in the last few years can we say "well, the margin of victory in all of our losses is 8 points or less?" That would lead you to believe that this team was very close in turning the corner into becoming a consistently good team. We're just missing a few pieces right? You'd think that after 4 years a coach would field a team he believes in. Joe Gibbs believes in this team. But when you're getting consistently bad results with teams that you believe in why wouldn't you think that what you're doing isn't working? It's easy to put 2 and 2 together.

What Redskins fan doesn't hold a place in their heart for Joe Gibbs? We all do. But I think its ridiculous for anyone who is a fan of their team to accept and appreciate losing seasons regardless of what direction the franchise is headed. Is the team better now than it was before Gibbs? Of course. Has the team been spinning it's proverbial wheels for the last few years? Yes. I also don't understand how its more acceptable for a team to fight hard and lose versus a team who doesn't fight hard and lose. Isn't the end result the same? Three words come to mind when I think about that. (Not good enough)

I think the only reason people are clinging to Gibbs at this point is because he is the epitomy of class. He doesn't blame anyone but himself. If it was the other way around and Gibbs was pointing fingers no one would be having this conversation right now. Think about this, the most classless coach in the world is on his way to a perfect 19-0 season. Does that mean I want Belechick on the sidelines? No. But I think that speaks volumes about what todays NFL is like and how you have to be to get the most out of your players. X's and O's are the same but the players certainly aren't.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:27 pm

I'm fairly sure that Gibbs will be the coach again next year because he made a commitment BUT we probably should look into getting a coach just because we need to change - anyone can do the job, we just need some players, like:
1) a couple of offensive lineman that will give Campbell as much time as he needs (kind of like we saw from NE, last night);
2) a big, tall WR with speed;
3) a new safety, and a shut down CB
4) a QB killing DE and a huge run stuffing DT

there that will do it - now it really wont matter who the coach is - we just have to show up :lol:

LORD GIBBS · Post by **LORD GIBBS** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:35 pm

hailskins666 wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:One of the worst and most untimely threads ever. I wish you had viewed the Funeral Service. I did. It helped me a lot.

whatever man. i've moved on. hate me for it if you want.

it still doesn't change anything i just posted. we suck.

what, you don't like to hear bad news when you're all sad? cry me a freakin river. thats life, it sucks. but life goes on for the rest of us.Why do people like this come here it makes me sick to read this crap belive it or not we are so close to turning the corner we will overcome this mess and we will be back to to the promise land keep the faith brother

GO SKINSSSSSSSSSSSS

Bob 0119 · Post by **Bob 0119** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:37 pm

I have finally lost the faith...

I've been on record a HUGE Gibbs supporter, and don't get me wrong, I still love the man, but I just don't think we can win with him anymore.

This loss is the one that got me.

Yes, the team had a tough week with the passing of Sean Taylor. Yes, they probably SHOULD have lost this game just due to the distraction of that alone...

However, this loss was the exact same as every other loss other than our loss to the Patriots.

We built up a halftime lead, we came out with a plan not to turn the ball over, and we watched the lead evaporate.

Y'know, if we'd have been blown out, I would have said "Ah well, the team had a lot on it's mind, and they didn't get a chance to properly prepare, etc."

But this, ladies and gentlemen was "Redskins Football". If you edit out all of the Sean Taylor stuff and watch just the game, this is the same game we've seen played all year, in every one of our losses.

I don't know what the answer is. All I know, in my less than scientific opinion, is that what we have isn't working...

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:14 pm

Personally, talking about football, even ranting as usual, helps me deal with Sean's death. I'm sure others feel the same. As human beings, we're driven to get on with our business, in grief or not.

We didn't lose last Sunday because we were in mourning. We had the usual number of player failings-- I discount those because they are pretty much a constant and are with teams forever.

Last Sunday was lost by bone-headed decisions of the coaches, Period. They should not have happened, especially the decision not to go for that first down. Pathetic.

So, I'm ranting again. So what? I think Sean approves. From what I hear, he never took losing well.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:14 pm

Personally, talking about football, even ranting as usual, helps me deal with Sean's death. I'm sure others feel the same. As human beings, we're driven to get on with our business, in grief or not.

We didn't lose last Sunday because we were in mourning. We had the usual number of player failings-- I discount those because they are pretty much a constant and are with teams forever.

Last Sunday was lost by bone-headed decisions of the coaches, Period. They should not have happened, especially the decision not to go for that first down. Pathetic.

So, I'm ranting again. So what? I think Sean approves. From what I hear, he never took losing well.

Bishop Hammer · Post by **Bishop Hammer** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:32 pm

Sean "Meast" Taylor (1983-2007) R*I*P

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

That is the clinical definition of Insanity and surprise, sursprise that describes Snyder's approach to running the Redskins. People often say Snyder wants to win but he has done the same exact thing over and over and over again and it has never worked.

The first season when Snyder went on his shopping spree I thought it would work and bring the Skins back to being a dominate franchise;after the umpteenth time it failed and the Skins missed the playoffs, common sense would dictate that what he is doing isn't working and it is time to do something else. Unfortunately Dan the man is not going to because he wants to continue to play "Fantasy Football" and grab the biggest names on the market, regardless of team chemistry and if they are rigth fit for the offenseive and defensive systems of the coaching staff.

Most importantely, Snyder has found a way for the Skins to be a very profitable team, despite the Skins being mediocre (at best), and is more concerned with making money than ensuring the Redskins will ever win another super-bowl or being a half way decent and respectable team.

If Snyder does relent and hire a General Manager I can guarantee that he will not give him the time he needs build a good football team and will fire him after two or three seasons (at the most).

So it will not matter if Gibbs stays or if Bill Cower comes out of retirement and comes here. The bottom line is as long as Dan Snyder continues to interfere the Skins will be a horrible football team.

Although with the passing of Sean Taylor it all seems so trivial, that it is not worth workin oneself into a lather about.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:37 pm

I did not think it could get any worse but it has. Now, we stand divided as Washington Redskins fans. What a mess ... :roll:

As long as the players and coaches are united, we will be fine. We shall see ... :!:

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:51 pm

Bishop Hammer wrote:Unfortunately Dan the man is not going to because he wants to continue to play "Fantasy Football" and grab the biggest names on the market, regardless of team chemistry and if they are rigth fit for the offenseive and defensive systems of the coaching staff.

Who did they get last year?

London Fletcher Baker (an acknowledged leader who had played MLB for Williams), and Fred Smoot (a great locker room guy, who played CB for Williams).

Yep, sure went after the biggest names on the market (they're mid-level names in all honesty), got them without a regard for team chemistry (both are great chemistry guys, and they KNEW this), and they sure didn't know if they'd fit with the defensive system (both played for Williams and excelled for him before).

Uh huh.

Welcome to 2007. Time to change that tired mantra.

vwoodzpusha · Post by **vwoodzpusha** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:51 pm

thye need to hire a REAL GM and Synder needs to stay out of ALL football aspects of operation.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:02 pm

Well, what constitutes sucking? Does a team that would rank, say, around the mid-point of the league suck? Does a team have to be a Superbowl contender not to suck? If the answer to those last two questions is "yes", then it's a no-brainer. I don't think anyone is under the impression that this team has a chance at the Superbowl. But where should this team rank? Does anything short of the playoffs count as sucking? At what point has a team crossed that line?

Consider that the Redskins have has had a tough schedule that probably ranks in the top 5 of the league. (The analysts at Football Outsiders, for example, who have developed complex statistical models to rank teams and their schedules, put the Redskins as having the 3rd hardest schedule. Take a look at how other teams with tough schedules have fared.) We also play in a very tough division, where even the other bottom-feeder gave New England a run for their money, played Green Bay tough, and crushed Detroit. (Heck, we crushed Detroit.) Consider that the Redskins — even if this is due to problems with our training and conditioning staff — have had far more than their fair share of injuries this year. Name me another team that could lose 3 starters on the offensive line without losing their ability to run the ball and protect the quarterback.

Consider that, aside from the New England game, we have yet to be truly outplayed by a team. Even in our ugly wins where we probably didn't deserve the W, the other team wasn't looking pretty either. In fact, we've had mostly ugly games this year, win or lose, and the closeness of these matchups shouldn't be overlooked (one way or the other!).

Consider further that Sean's injury and then tragic death probably guarantees an additional 2-3 losses that we wouldn't have had otherwise, since we have human beings coaching and human beings playing, and it's impossible to imagine this not affecting their performance. Jason Campbell is having growing pains, but he continues to improve. Remember when we didn't have a passing game? Well, that's been solved for the most part — now our real trouble is that we can't seem to finish drives with touchdowns.

So, back to the original question. Do we suck? I guess if you think any team not in the top 1/3rd of the league is terrible, then you will include the Redskins in that category. But I'd place the Redskins somewhere at the mid-point of the NFL. We can beat most of the teams in this league, and we have been getting consistently more healthy in the past couple of weeks (a trend that I expect will continue). Jason Campbell has developed this season, and will continue to do so. We are getting Randy Thomas back. My answer is a definite "no" in this case.

Gnome · Post by **Gnome** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:03 pm

Isn't there an official hire a GM thread? Since it's a mantra here at THN?

And the retort is - it ain't gonna happen. And if it did - he'd still report to Snyder. And GM's don't call plays, catch passes, or sack QB's.

The Skins drafts are decent. The free agents have been better lately. But the passion, intensity, and play calling on both sides of the ball have been under .500 at best.

BUT. I'm finally ready to admit that my hero, Joe Jackson Gibbs, should leave the sideline - but not leave the Skins. And for crying out loud. Don't turn the wheel over to Williams. He'd be a five year trainwreck.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:04 pm

We also did not go after the money guys that we used to - some teams did exactly what we are always criticized for and the critics were silent :shock:

this team is heading in the right direction, it is just taking a little longer than some of us thought and there are a lot here who will never be happy no matter what Snyder does because he is just too successful at making money and letting Gibbs run his football team.

We have a number of draft picks next year and Gibbs will hopefully find some guys who we can develop into starters soon.

I also hope we spend a fortune on "proven" defensive and offensive linemen - we tried being cheap - let's buy everyone. We don't have time to wait for them to develop, just get the best available. :wink:

GSPODS · Post by **GSPODS** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:16 pm

"We Suck"? Speak for yourself.
I do none of the following:

suck /sʌk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Pronunciation[suhk]
–verb (used with object) 1. to draw into the mouth by producing a partial vacuum by action of the lips and tongue: to suck lemonade through a straw.
2. to draw (water, moisture, air, etc.) by or as if by suction: Plants suck moisture from the earth. The pump sucked water from the basement.
3. to apply the lips or mouth to and draw upon by producing a partial vacuum, esp. for extracting fluid contents: to suck an orange.
4. to put into the mouth and draw upon: to suck one's thumb.
5. to take into the mouth and dissolve by the action of the tongue, saliva, etc.: to suck a piece of candy.
6. to render or bring to a specified condition by or as if by sucking.
–verb (used without object) 7. to draw something in by producing a partial vacuum in the mouth, esp. to draw milk from the breast.
8. to draw or be drawn by or as if by suction.
9. (of a pump) to draw air instead of water, as when the water is low or a valve is defective.