I'm upset with our offseason thus far because of one thing..

Redskins4Life · Post by **Redskins4Life** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:13 pm

Alright, i'm gonna come out and say it. This has not been a very good offseason for us. Sure we got an EXCELLENT RB in Clinton Portis, but we also lost the leagues best cornerback in Champ Bailey. We replaced him with pro bowl caliber CB Shawn Springs, but Springs has had major issues with injuries his last few seasons. We lost a great blocking FB in Bryan Johnson, and even though Cartwright is awesome, his blocking skills are nowhere near B.Johnson's level. We signed young, speedy LB Marcus Washington who was a great pickup, but we let go one of the teams most steady and solid players in Jessie Armstead which made me kind of angry. We also lost two very valuable draft picks, our 2nd and 3rd rounders as part of the Portis trade, and for M.Brunell which I personally think was a bad acquisition. Defensive line was a major priority coming into this offseason and yet we really haven't upgraded it much at all. Cornelius Griffin is a GOOD player, not great (at least yet) but he makes one out of the 4 people who are going to be on our DLine. Phillip Daniels is no upgrade over either Upshaw or Wynn, theyre all big slow run stopping DE's; we need pass rushing DE's. We signed P Tom Tupa which might have been one of the smartest acquisitions all offseason, but he's a little old and he's definitely not a permanent solution at Punter. I'm hoping we'll sign an undrafted rookie Punter after the draft. The draft is coming up and we have only THREE selections! Our 1st round pick is probably going to be the only player who will make an impact on the team this season. Hopefully it will be Sean Taylor because he is the Ray Lewis of the Safety position, and the next Ronnie Lott. To top it all off, Jeremiah Trotter is on the trading block and it looks like we're not gonna get anything for him. I'll go crazy if the Skins cut him and not get anything for return; he played just fine last season and was coming off an ACL tear which is a horrible injury, we should give him one more shot. The only way I can see this offseason getting better is if we acquire a pass rushing DE... I don't know how but if we do, we will instantly become contenders. What do you guys think?

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:22 pm

Im not glad that Champ is gone :^o

but am happy, that Portis is here :wink:

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:43 pm

I think I think that I have to go with whatever the coaching staff says is the way to go with personnel. I'd love Taylor, but I'd also love to trade that # 5 to OAK for the #2 and then trade THAT to the NYG for everything they have coming in the draft, which isn't entirely out of the question.
Wait and see, bud. It'll work out.
It has to.

fands57 · Post by **fands57** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:53 pm

Redskins4Life said:

Phillip Daniels is no upgrade over either Upshaw or Wynn, theyre all big slow run stopping DE's; we need pass rushing DE's.

I have to strongly disagree with you here. Daniels is a solid pick-up. He has had some great sack numbers recently and he was one of Greg Blache's favorite players in Chicago. Upshaw is awful and Wynn is not as productive as he should be with the money we are giving him. I agree we need one more pass rusher, but in Gregg Williams defensive system the pressure comes from the linebackers and with Arrington at strong side, Washington moving to middle, and the almost imminent Holdman signing, I think that we should get a lot more sacks. We should be able to find a few stud pass rushers after June 1 and we will have money to sign them with the releasing of Trotter. We should draft Taylor and then wait for June 1.
Check Daniels stats:
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/3323

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:13 pm

I DEFINATELY want Bailey back. But he didn't want to be here so it wasn't possible. It wasn't Bailey, it was the orginanization which made him want to leave. If we had some direction, I don't think it would have panned out like this.

Im kind of happy to see Portis here, I like Stephen Davis sized RB's. But theres no doubt that he's a great addition.

I was surprised to see Trotter leave, I think he's a great player.

Armstead I didn't mind leaving.

Brunell, I don't know what to think, Im trusting Gibbs on this one, but he may flourish under this system.

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:27 pm

I like our off season moves. I think Brunell is a really good pick-up. He's a solid QB. He needed to leave Jacksonville and I think the change of location will benefit his career. I think he'll have a good year with us.

Magoo · Post by **Magoo** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:48 pm

Let me give some tough love here. Here's what I'm not going to miss - the 8-8 season, the next 8-8 season, the 7-9 season, or the 5-11 season.

We've been lame team for a decade now. Changes had to be made. IMO it doesn't matter who goes because there was no must keep player on the team Gibbs inherited - they put themselves in that position by losing and losing some more.

This off-season has been the re-birth of a team that makes moves that make sense - they may not be fan friendly (Champ, Johnson) and invalidate a lot of the past few seasons of off-season work (Trotter, Armstead) - but I truly believe that Coach Gibbs and his team of coaches will build one amazing team that will more than replace the guys that we lost.

And this time next year we'll giving major props to Portis, Bruenell, Washington, Daniels, and Springs.

njskinsfan · Post by **njskinsfan** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:12 pm

We overpaid in $ and picks for Brunell.

We over-traded for Portis (2nd rounder?)

Daniels has good sack #'s Fands57? When... in college?

We had no choice with Johnson.

We had no need for Thrash for that high a pick and a million per.

Armstead had at least one more good year in him, especially at that price and could platoon with Pierce. Look to next year for a more permenant replacement there.

We now have three new CB's with a history of injury problems.

No depth at middle LB.

We overpaid for a guy (Griffin) coming off a bad year not a stellar year.

Washington was a good pick up but not at a need position.

There were several good safeties available this year as UFA's and we got none.

We have no picks this year to provide depth at middle LB, DL or safety. (we can safely assume that we will fill one of those holes with our first rounder).

Hey Redskins4life I guess Old Man Tupa is looking like our best pick up this offseason and I am not happy about that.

RedskinsRule56 · Post by **RedskinsRule56** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:13 pm

I want us to trade down and draft Kenechi Udeze!! 16.5 sacks last year! We do not need Sean Taylor! Iffy is solid. Bowen is average at best. But the weakest part of our team is still our D-line! Udeze would be a great pick for us! I was reading today on Nfl.com about Udeze! He seems like a very smart guy. He has studied up on all the DE's in the league and can tell you all there moves.

ImissRFK · Post by **ImissRFK** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:29 pm

Champ Bailey did not want to be a Redskin anymore so out the door he went. Washington offered him a very hefty deal and he decided he did not want it. I have seen Bailey get burned plenty of times....when was the last time you saw one of our backs bust one for 60 and take it the house....that is what Portis brings to the table....would you have wanted Canidate back or singed disgruntled Dillon. Portis...."WILL LEAD THE NFC IN RUSHING". Fred Smoot is ready to step up and while Springs is not what he use to be he can still fill the hole. Armstead was way overpaid...name me a linebacker from 93-94 when Armstead came... in that is still productive today and do not say Seau he is dimishing big time. Marcus Washington is like Cornelius Griffin in that they are in the prime of their careers and ready to explode....

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:35 pm

njskinsfan wrote:We overpaid in $ and picks for Brunell.

We over-traded for Portis (2nd rounder?)

Daniels has good sack #'s Fands57? When... in college?

We had no choice with Johnson.

We had no need for Thrash for that high a pick and a million per.

Armstead had at least one more good year in him, especially at that price and could platoon with Pierce. Look to next year for a more permenant replacement there.

We now have three new CB's with a history of injury problems.

No depth at middle LB.

We overpaid for a guy (Griffin) coming off a bad year not a stellar year.

Washington was a good pick up but not at a need position.

There were several good safeties available this year as UFA's and we got none.

We have no picks this year to provide depth at middle LB, DL or safety. (we can safely assume that we will fill one of those holes with our first rounder).

Hey Redskins4life I guess Old Man Tupa is looking like our best pick up this offseason and I am not happy about that.

NJSKINFAN, i have been saying this, but i guess it is easier to take from a skins fan.

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:43 pm

njskinsfan wrote:We overpaid in $ and picks for Brunell.

We over-traded for Portis (2nd rounder?)

Daniels has good sack #'s Fands57? When... in college?

We had no choice with Johnson.

We had no need for Thrash for that high a pick and a million per.

Armstead had at least one more good year in him, especially at that price and could platoon with Pierce. Look to next year for a more permenant replacement there.

We now have three new CB's with a history of injury problems.

No depth at middle LB.

We overpaid for a guy (Griffin) coming off a bad year not a stellar year.

Washington was a good pick up but not at a need position.

There were several good safeties available this year as UFA's and we got none.

We have no picks this year to provide depth at middle LB, DL or safety. (we can safely assume that we will fill one of those holes with our first rounder).

Hey Redskins4life I guess Old Man Tupa is looking like our best pick up this offseason and I am not happy about that.

Are you really Len Pastabelly?

Skins56 · Post by **Skins56** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:46 pm

i gotta say that even if some of us do not agree with the players we have gotten and will get, its not like spurrier is the one picking these players. you gotta remember that it is joe gibbs. i have confidence in any player he wants to get. he picks all his players for a reason and he has forgotten more about football in the last 10 minutes than any of us will ever know.

milkbone · Post by **milkbone** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:48 pm

Do we really need to draft a safety? I think we have more important needs.

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:57 pm

milkbone wrote:Do we really need to draft a safety? I think we have more important needs.

Like what? Our D-line. So we draft a D-lineman. Chances are he won't, if ever develop this year. It usually takes D-lineman longer to develop in the NFL. I think alot of people are assuming that Udeze is going to get 16.5 sacks next year. Anything's possible, but it's highly unlikely. Sean Taylor will have more of an immediate impact and will be way better than Bowen or Iffy.

Smithian · Post by **Smithian** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:57 pm

Since the days I watched the 'Skins play... I have seen to many QBs, to many losses, to many promises, to many great players leaving and succeeding... I started watching since Brad Johnson was here. I watched Stephen Davis leave.

Now, I am watching our QB of the future lose his starting job to a better, but much older, QB.

Champsturf · Post by **Champsturf** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:53 pm

What the heck was that, Smithian?? Maybe it's me, but I didn't see a point at all in your post. I've been watching for ALOT longer than that and I have to say that what you've seen is Dan Snyder in action. We now have a great coach that will shape this team up.
No, I do not agree with all of his decisions, but I don't get paid to make them. Anyone here can tell you how I feel about Champ leaving(and no, he didn't want to be a Redskin because they weren't going anywhere. That alone should tell you it wasn't all about the $$.)
I'm not crazy about the Brunell pickup, especially for what it is costing us, but I think it may waork out. I can't believe you even said that he is much better than Ramsey. Are you smoking something right now that you shouldn't be? Ramsey is young and inexperienced and still would have been excellent if he had ANY time to throw or if the D would've kept our leads.
HTTR

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:10 pm

I couldn't figure out which one was the one thing that upset you Redskins4life....seems like it was multiple things....

Redskins4Life wrote:Alright, i'm gonna come out and say
it. This has not been a very good offseason for us.

What?!?

We improved our RB position, did we not? C. Portis arguably the best RB in the NFL

We improved our QB depth, did we not? You can't say Brunell's worse than Ramsey.... there atleast even.... we haven't had a 2-combo punch w/ QB's this past couple of years w/ the likes of Wuerful, Matthews, R. Johnson, etc.

We improved a little at WR depth w/ Thrash, and our O-Line w/ Raymer, did we not?

We improved our D-line (maybe not as much as some of us would like, but it's still an improvement definetly from last year), is it not?

Armstead and Trotter were nice guys... but they haven't helped us the past couple of years get over the hump, and now we brought in a faster higher rated LB in Washington, did we not?

Yes, we lost Champ, but he didn't want to be here, if we paid him everything he wanted then we wouldn't have been able to sign half the guys we got this offseason.... Plus, as long as Springs stays healthy..... he is close to being as good as Champ....

And the biggest Offseason move of all is JOE GIBBS, and one of the best O-Line guys in the business w/ Bugel, and Greg Williams is a Top Defensive Guru.... i think a couple of you are too young to remember JG and the way he coached a game... but let me just say this.... you never felt like you were out of it when he was coaching a game..... it was a thrill almost every gameday

The only positions I see that we haven't improved that need improving are TE, a Pass-Rushing Defensive End, and Safety.... which were gonna improve one of those positions with the 5th pick in the Draft....Plus there's still 4 more month's we can fill the other holes we need....

I just can't understand how you can say we've had a bad offseason :hmm:

Champsturf · Post by **Champsturf** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:48 am

Point well taken BTP. I don't know why we all seem to expect not only to make it to the playoffs, but all the way. We were 5-11 lat year. Almost anything would be an improvement. It will take time. You say we need pass rushing DE, safety and TE. We will fill ONE of those holes and that is all. That with all of the other changes and we will be competitive. THAT is what I want to be. If we can be in every game, then we are almost there. Let's give Gibbs a little time folks. I know he is one of the best, best he has to work it.

HTTR

ChiliPalmer · Post by **ChiliPalmer** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:50 am

I agree with BTP. I think the Skins are better everywhere but at corner. Maybe about the same at TE, LB and safety. Drafting Taylor or Winslow (I'm hoping Taylor) and you've solved one of them. Sure, I'd like to have seen Jevon Kearse instead of James Thrash, and I'd like to have a pick or two in each round, but the league is about "parity" now, so you're a bit limited.

I was watching an old game video, and after the game Joe Gibbs said, "I had to beg Mr. Cooke to spend $475,000 for Doug Williams. It's alot of money, but he did it." Dan Snyder would've said "Make it $8 million and takes our draft picks until the end of time." Especially if he'd known it would be a Super Bowl winning move.

Speaking of the old days, can the league go one strike for just one week? Then the Skins would be a lock to win it all.

RedskinsFanInTX · Post by **RedskinsFanInTX** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:09 am

Hey! With the return of Joe Gibbs all is right.

Smithian · Post by **Smithian** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:42 am

Champsturf wrote:What the heck was that, Smithian??

Me trying to be dramatic.

Basically;
-I've watched... Alot of bad or medium seasons.
-We're hoping Brunnell can come in and help us when we should give Patrick Ramsey a chance.
-I'm still wondering how Spurrier pulled off that Week 17 loss to the Eagles so badly that we were nearly shut out.
-I'm convinced we might of won at Miami if Spurrier hadn't been trying to test out his new passer.

Also, I think Brunnell is only a bit better because he does have the experience. Patrick Ramsey would probably be just as good if Spurrier would of just given him the starting job instead of pulling him in and out all last year and had given good blocking assignments this year so that Patrick Ramsey wouldn't of been smashed quite as bad.

NC43Hog · Post by **NC43Hog** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:14 am

Smithian wrote:Since the days I watched the 'Skins play... I have seen to many QBs, to many losses, to many promises, to many great players leaving and succeeding... I started watching since Brad Johnson was here. I watched Stephen Davis leave.

Now, I am watching our QB of the future lose his starting job to a better, but much older, QB.

And now you can start watching them win!

skins75 · Post by **skins75** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:27 am

Fellas - Just let the man do his job. You will be pleasantly surprised with the results. It is still the offseason and the draft hasnt even happpend yet and people are saying we have had a bad offseason. Give it time.

No matter what people are saying about the Brunell P/U...it was a great move. Ramsey is our future but he has alot to learn. He will be a better QB having Brunell here to guide him.

whomp-em · Post by **whomp-em** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:59 am

Champsturf wrote:Point well taken BTP. I don't know why we all seem to expect not only to make it to the playoffs, but all the way. We were 5-11 lat year. Almost anything would be an improvement. It will take time. You say we need pass rushing DE, safety and TE. We will fill ONE of those holes and that is all. That with all of the other changes and we will be competitive. THAT is what I want to be. If we can be in every game, then we are almost there. Let's give Gibbs a little time folks. I know he is one of the best, best he has to work it.

This hits the nail completely on the head. You can't expect to fill every need in one offseason no matter how many people you sign or how much money you spend (unless you're an expansion team I guess :wink:

). You just have to build piece by piece over time and eventually you'll get it right. If it was possible to come away with the perfect team every offseason everyone would be 16-0, or rather 0-0-16...

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I'm upset with our offseason thus far because of one thing..

I'm upset with our offseason thus far because of one thing..

Re: I'm upset with our offseason thus far because of one thi