I just don't understand world politics...

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:27 pm

First of all, no one said that we were going to try and recreate a representative democracy.

Second, there is a stabilizing factor that you aren't looking at - one of the main terrorist weapons is money. With the money flow being cut off from that region, and with the posturing cutting off a large chunk (the peaceful method you mentioned) from places like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia (posturing made more effective by our attack in the region), the terrorists have less money to operate with.

That is less money to purchase arms, less to corrupt officials, less for bribes, etc.

There were links from Iraq to several terrorist groups. Did you go and look at the oil voucher list I provided? Look under Palestine - there were a couple or three really big nasty groups getting major funding from Iraq.

Even Clinton had that pegged in the 1999 State Dept. report on terrorism - it wasn't Bush that thought that up - it was there in black and white before he got to the White House.

The fact is, their orginization is worried. They are having problems having to look over their shoulders as well as planning operations with less money, resources and armament.

As to you other point - Radical clerics who raise "Armies" of several hundred men are not nation building killers... they couldn't stop this. There are one or two on the list right now, and they aren't that much of a threat. Bush is sticking to his June 30th turning over of power, and that should tell anyone that we were in there for the right reason.

We went in there for a number of reasons, only one of which was the WMD.

1. WMD
2. Genocide
3. Saddam had invaded two different countries and was a DEstabilizing factor in the region - so much so that Saudis erected a huge base just for our troops to stay there, partially paid for by the other countries to the south of Saudi.
4. Torture and murder
5. Terroristic tendencies and funding
6. Taking away a hidey hole for terrorists such as those up in the northeast mountains of Iraq
7. Aid the Kurds to have some peace in the region
8. Put pressure on Iran to make changes on their own (which they are doing - there is an upheaval for freedom in that country right now)
9. Give the people of Iraq back their country, their oil, their wealth. You can't tell me that all of the people supporting Iraq because of being paid off were less oil hungry than specious accusations that can't be proven about our President being oil hungry. Yes, they have it rough because this sadistic piece of garbage was standing on their necks while building mansions all over the country. You can claim we are in there to force something - I say we are in there to remedy several things.

I don't believe that Iraq will become another Isreal, so to speak, but I think that the government that is put into place over there will stand a good chance of being able to hold it together because a vast majority of the people are glad to be out from under the yoke and don't want to go back.

If you feel that certain peoples have a right to their way of life, religion, their own economy... well then you are actually supporting my point of view and President Bush's. You can't simultaneously hold the position that we shouldn't hurt homosexuals' feelings but it is ok, in the interest of stability in the region, to allow Saddam to brutalize and murder at will. You can't say that they should all be allowed religious freedoms, but yet did they really have that under the guy you are saying we should have let stay in power? No - the mullah's were under house arrest and could and were shot for spreading their religious teachings.

You have to understand that from my point of view, your conflicting standards seem to point right back to emotionalisms... we are attempting to give them back their country - I for one don't believe that Bush or anyone has sovereignty aspirations there.

Rwanda, we could have and should have stopped. Should we not have helped Haiti when they called for it? How about over in Europe with all the Baltic states killing each other off? Millions of refugees have lost it all, and yet this isn't a good enough reason to do the same thing in Iraq for you?

You really need to re-examine your motives, young sir. I am not saying they are bad, but when do you draw the line on a tyrannical ruler? How many people have to die before we go - enough! In Haiti - how many died before Clinton went in? The Baltic states?

There are claims you are making, like it seems to you we are trying to take their way of life or religion. I can tell you now that we don't do that. Shintoism is just as strong today in Japan, and their culture is still strong. Don't kid yourself - if we were really looking for world dominance, the Marshall, MacArthur and now the Iraq and Afghani rebuild projects would never have taken place - we would have kept them beaten, bloody and broken - instead, we helped them up and dusted them off and they are stronger for having our help.

I think you misplace certain beliefs from Hollywood concerning how greedy everyone in America, how power hungry we all are and thus it translates to the White House... Do you realize that we have done what we intended and are now preparing an exit strategy? Something that wasn't done with the Baltic states, the original Haiti incursion or Mogadishu?

Rather than looking at it as "oh poor them" maybe you need to rejoice for the millions that pulled statues down, and are living better today for the evil being gone. The man was an open canker in that area - and I will argue that he was a major part of the instability in order to keep himself in power - keep the focus shifted away through terrorists and other countries being manipulated. He wasn't stable at all.

Now to the McVeigh thing. He was insane. He took many innocent lives for no reason. He is part of a viral infection of sick twits in this country who think they are soldiers. These are the same kind of idiots who blow up abortion clinics and assassinate doctors to show life is precious.

Both of these examples - Saddam and McVeigh are both sick men who, as a result of their actions killed innocents and destroyed not only the lives of the people they killed, but everyone who depended on them, who loved them.

I will ask you a standard question - if there is a prisioner of war being held by the enemy, tortured, starved, and mistreated - how many lives would you give up in an attempt to save that person?

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:54 pm

I'll agree there are some good reasons for this, but there are also some not so good reasons for this.

Yes, Saddam is an evil man, and giving Iraqis back their country is a good thing. (My friend Chris sent me a letter about how some of the people of Iraq give soldiers the thumbs up sign and cheer for them as their convoy passes by, so people obviously appreciate this.) But now that Saddam is gone these clerics have come out of the woodwork. I think you're downplaying the danger of these small armies. They have IED's, AK-47's, and other weapons at their disposal and any faction that can wage battles with US troops that last a week is potentially very dangerous. These types of people will do anything to keep the west out of Iraq and we have to be very careful.

But back to the idea that we need to free an oppressed people... why not make a few stops on our way home? The Chinese have mistreated, starved and tortured the Tibetans for over 50 years! Not only that but religious freedom has been squashed... if Tibet had something we wanted (coughoilcough) we'd be in there like a flash.

Maybe I'm just disenchanted with this whole idea of invading Iraq, to me, I think we have good intentions but we didn't entirely think this through.

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:08 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:Ignorance is the same as being uninformed, that is not an insult, it is an observation. Some people have the very same opinions but they can back them up. Saying everyone in the middle east is crazy... that's an ignorant statement.

Sometimes there is no choice other than war, and you need to weigh the pros and cons of taking such drastic action... I just fail to see where the pros are... to me we're opening up a pandora's box in the middle east, what possible good can come of this? How many years will it take? Are we prepared to go into a war of Biblical proportions taking hundreds of years?

Well, from what I've observed, your leftwing, dramatic, and brainwashed by your liberal professors. At first I told myself not to post on this topic because I didn't want to get in an argument with a liberal. But I'm sick of the Bush bashing going on and I couldn't resist. To say that the middle east isn't full of religious extremest is IGNORANT ON YOUR PART. Not all the people from the middle east are suicide bombers, but most of them feel that it's justified and celebrate in the streets when Jews or Americans are killed. If Saddam wasn't paying Palestinians to blow themselves up to kill jewish civilians, didn't have a history of gasing Kurds and if he would of complied with UN resolutions, then maybe we should have thought about not going to Iraq. Saddam was warned time after time to comply. He would stall and make excuses. Then after 9-11, the government realized what a serious situation we were in and decided to act. I've been biting my tongue in arguing with you because this is the lounge and not the smack room. Why don't you join the peace corp and plant flowers in the desert. Are you really Jane Fonda?

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:18 pm

Brandon777 wrote:
Skinsfan55 wrote:Ignorance is the same as being uninformed, that is not an insult, it is an observation. Some people have the very same opinions but they can back them up. Saying everyone in the middle east is crazy... that's an ignorant statement.

Sometimes there is no choice other than war, and you need to weigh the pros and cons of taking such drastic action... I just fail to see where the pros are... to me we're opening up a pandora's box in the middle east, what possible good can come of this? How many years will it take? Are we prepared to go into a war of Biblical proportions taking hundreds of years?
Well, from what I've observed, your leftwing, dramatic, and brainwashed by your liberal professors. At first I told myself not to post on this topic because I didn't want to get in an argument with a liberal. But I'm sick of the Bush bashing going on and I couldn't resist. To say that the middle east isn't full of religious extremest is IGNORANT ON YOUR PART. Not all the people from the middle east are suicide bombers, but most of them feel that it's justified and celebrate in the streets when Jews or Americans are killed. If Saddam wasn't paying Palestinians to blow themselves up to kill jewish civilians, didn't have a history of gasing Kurds and if he would of complied with UN resolutions, then maybe we should have thought about not going to Iraq. Saddam was warned time after time to comply. He would stall and make excuses. Then after 9-11, the government realized what a serious situation we were in and decided to act. I've been biting my tongue in arguing with you because this is the lounge and not the smack room. Why don't you join the peace corp and plant flowers in the desert. Are you really Jane Fonda?

ROTFALMAO i coudn't agree more. and I WON'T post anything other than this on this topic.

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:25 pm

Ok I have to speak again. I have to ask you guys, who makes the decisoin as to when we stop terrorists? Do we have to wait until they attack us? Do we have to wait until they kill 5000 of our citizens? I just wonder if you are the same people blaming our governement for not acting before Sept 11th. We do it now or we have another Sept 11th. To me that is an easy choice. If you choose the other option, the only thing I have to say to you is obviously the majority of this country disagrees with you. Our congress and our president, who were elected, by the majority, decided we need this. I support it 100%. And I want you to know that I have a personal stake in the military. Scott (JansenFan), my husband was a Marine, he was from a long line of Marines in his family. So in 18 years I will probably be the mother of a Marine. And I'm ok with that. I will still support military actions, I will still support our president. Freedom comes at a cost. And if no one is willing to pay that price, you would not have the right to type this ANYWHERE!

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:28 pm

NikiH wrote:Ok I have to speak again. I have to ask you guys, who makes the decisoin as to when we stop terrorists? Do we have to wait until they attack us? Do we have to wait until they kill 5000 of our citizens? I just wonder if you are the same people blaming our governement for not acting before Sept 11th. We do it now or we have another Sept 11th. To me that is an easy choice. If you choose the other option, the only thing I have to say to you is obviously the majority of this country disagrees with you. Our congress and our president, who were elected, by the majority, decided we need this. I support it 100%. And I want you to know that I have a personal stake in the military. Scott (JansenFan), my husband was a Marine, he was from a long line of Marines in his family. So in 18 years I will probably be the mother of a Marine. And I'm ok with that. I will still support military actions, I will still support our president. Freedom comes at a cost. And if no one is willing to pay that price, you would not have the right to type this ANYWHERE!

ok, i said i'd make one post on this thread and disappear.... i lied. nikki that was so well put together i have to give you a big

Now i'm done :twisted:

Justice Hog · Post by **Justice Hog** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:16 pm

Wow NikiH, that was eloquent. I thought I heard the Stars and Stripes Forever playing in the background as I read your post. Well said!

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:18 pm

I of course support the troops, but blindly following the decisions of the government is stupid. People need to think for theirselves. It's prefectly fine to think for yourself and then come to the conclusion that what we're doing is right... but what's NOT okay is to label anyone who disagrees with you as "left-wing" or a "queer".

We should conduct ourselves the same way we would if we were having a conversation about football, the true emotionalism that shows up is when someone breaks their normal character and begins namecalling and insulting because they feel too strongly about their point that they become incapable of explaining why they do.

Me calling someone ignorant for saying all middle easterners are crazy is the correct usage of the word, saying someone is ignorant because they disagree with your views is incorrect.

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:23 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:I of course support the troops, but blindly following the decisions of the government is stupid. People need to think for theirselves. It's prefectly fine to think for yourself and then come to the conclusion that what we're doing is right... but what's NOT okay is to label anyone who disagrees with you as "left-wing" or a "queer".

We should conduct ourselves the same way we would if we were having a conversation about football, the true emotionalism that shows up is when someone breaks their normal character and begins namecalling and insulting because they feel too strongly about their point that they become incapable of explaining why they do.

Me calling someone ignorant for saying all middle easterners are crazy is the correct usage of the word, saying someone is ignorant because they disagree with your views is incorrect.

Will you just drop this subject. You won't change my views and I won't change yours. This is pointless.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:42 pm

NikiH wrote:If you choose the other option, the only thing I have to say to you is obviously the majority of this country disagrees with you. Our congress and our president, who were elected, by the majority, decided we need this.

This is just plain incorrect, I respect the way you feel about pretty much everything else, but to think the president is elected by the majority is just plain gullibility.

-Take out anyone 17 or under, that eliminates a huge chunk of the population.

-Slightly more than 50% of eligable voters register, take out another HUGE chunk of the population

-Slightly more than 50% of THOSE people vote!

-Then you have to cut it in half again (it was about half and half in the last election) to get the number of people who voted for Bush.

So when you look at the facts, Bush was elected by a small, small percentage of people out there. That doesn't mean people agree or disagree with him, but he was not elected by a majority.

I am not saying I am for or against Bush, I haven't yet, but what I am saying is just because he's our president doesn't mean we aren't allowed to question him! People faught and died not only for US to have the right to question our leaders, but we've faught wars all over the world to provide other nations with this privlige! supposedly this is also our goal in Iraq...

I love America, and all it has done for us. I love the basic values we have, and while I don't like having to work everyday to make capitalism work, I realize that this is the best way to build a great industrialized nation and all the perks that come with that. However, patriotism is more than just holding your hand over your heart when the president speaks, or getting choked up when you hear the "Star Spangled Banner" played. It's having a genuine interest in what your country is doing, how and why we act the way we do as a nation... seeing what direction the country is going in... and if you don't like it, trying to change it... or at least understand it!

Just letting people spoonfeed you your conclusions is not the way to go, and by saying that, I am not accusing anyone in particular... and the idea perpetuated by others that I have had my conclusions spoonfed to be by queer, left-wing, liberal professors is insulting and assinine. I have taken the information given to me and tried to form my own conclusions on the subject and I have asked for imput from many of you, but so far I have mostly been met with rudeness and "patriotic" speach. Can anyone else besides SFIR give me honest opinions on what good this is doing without using the words "because Bush said so, and he is always right!"

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:48 pm

Brandon777 wrote:Will you just drop this subject. You won't change my views and I won't change yours. This is pointless.

I can't possibly hope to change your entire thinking on the subject of the middle east, but you shouldn't be so stubborn not to change your views on the appropriateness of generalizing everyone who disagrees with you as a queer or as being fruity. I am trying my best to find out and understand about differing views and you are trying your best to shut down differing opinions by belittling them.

THAT is where I can hope to change your views

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:51 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:
NikiH wrote:If you choose the other option, the only thing I have to say to you is obviously the majority of this country disagrees with you. Our congress and our president, who were elected, by the majority, decided we need this.

This is just plain incorrect, I respect the way you feel about pretty much everything else, but to think the president is elected by the majority is just plain gullibility.

-Take out anyone 17 or under, that eliminates a huge chunk of the population.

-Slightly more than 50% of eligable voters register, take out another HUGE chunk of the population

-Slightly more than 50% of THOSE people vote!

-Then you have to cut it in half again (it was about half and half in the last election) to get the number of people who voted for Bush.

So when you look at the facts, Bush was elected by a small, small percentage of people out there. That doesn't mean people agree or disagree with him, but he was not elected by a majority.

I am not saying I am for or against Bush, I haven't yet, but what I am saying is just because he's our president doesn't mean we aren't allowed to question him! People faught and died not only for US to have the right to question our leaders, but we've faught wars all over the world to provide other nations with this privlige! supposedly this is also our goal in Iraq...

I love America, and all it has done for us. I love the basic values we have, and while I don't like having to work everyday to make capitalism work, I realize that this is the best way to build a great industrialized nation and all the perks that come with that. However, patriotism is more than just holding your hand over your heart when the president speaks, or getting choked up when you hear the "Star Spangled Banner" played. It's having a genuine interest in what your country is doing, how and why we act the way we do as a nation... seeing what direction the country is going in... and if you don't like it, trying to change it... or at least understand it!

Just letting people spoonfeed you your conclusions is not the way to go, and by saying that, I am not accusing anyone in particular... and the idea perpetuated by others that I have had my conclusions spoonfed to be by queer, left-wing, liberal professors is insulting and assinine. I have taken the information given to me and tried to form my own conclusions on the subject and I have asked for imput from many of you, but so far I have mostly been met with rudeness and "patriotic" speach. Can anyone else besides SFIR give me honest opinions on what good this is doing without using the words "because Bush said so, and he is always right!"

Just to make one thing clear, I always look at both sides of the story. After I do that, I make a choice to what I feel is right. I am not a puppet to the government. Hell, I use to question Bill Clinton's behavior all the time.

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:57 pm

I still do Brandon

I do have core philosophies SF55... I think you and I will have to agree to disagree. I don't think for a moment you would think I was just being spoonfed my thoughts, now would ya?

I am very serious when it comes to my beliefs. I debated on whether or not to even express my opinions on here - I know they are strong. And like most strong opinions, I know that can be abrasive to a lot of people. I know I have probably irked a few on here with my strong minded football opinions :grin:

As long as we all stay patriotic to the B & G - we can work the rest out... even if I have to get you drunk to do it

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:59 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:
Brandon777 wrote:Will you just drop this subject. You won't change my views and I won't change yours. This is pointless.

I can't possibly hope to change your entire thinking on the subject of the middle east, but you shouldn't be so stubborn not to change your views on the appropriateness of generalizing everyone who disagrees with you as a queer or as being fruity. I am trying my best to find out and understand about differing views and you are trying your best to shut down differing opinions by belittling them.

THAT is where I can hope to change your views

I never called you queer. I refered to your PROFESSORS as having FRUITY views.

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:10 am

Wow Skinsfan you have alot to learn. First of all anyone not registered to vote or not exercising the right to vote does not have a say period. The president is elected by the majority of voters! Voters do not include anyone under 17 for good reason. And it does not include anyone who is so irresponsible they decide not to vote. Voting is a right, a right that people need to utilize it. So you can say what you want BUT..... I have backed my words up with facts. And I like everyone else who is now beating their head against a brick wall decided not to respond to this, at first. I do not need to list the reasoning of my support here. I have gone back and forth with you on this. And I DO NOT appreciate you acting as though you are superior because you've taken time to list the reasoning here on this board. Get back to me when you have a household to run and a child to raise. I do not have time or inclination to change your opinion.
I do however have to correct you on a few things. Patriotism is about loving your country, on whatever level that means. I don't see you wearing a uniform so obviously your way of loving this country is different then some others.
Secondly you cannot believe everything and anything you read in the media is the full truth. There is inteligence none of us knows and for good reason. There are still men in uniform risking their lives over there. After this is over, you can look back with the rest of us and thank goodness the President acted when he did. I like you and I'm not going to hold your attitude here against you. But I do not like being talked down to. I've made my decision on this topic and you've made yours. Another thing that makes this country great. However I don't appreciate being talked to like I am a drone that runs around agreeing with everything our president says.
I don't agree with his stance on gay marriage, I don't agree with his opinion on abortion. I could get into all of that but that would open a whole new can of worms. Just believe me when I say it's just as unfair for you to assume that the ones who disagree with you are spoonfed their opinions as it is for someone to say you are only influenced by your liberal instructors.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:10 am

SFIR, of course I don't believe you were being spoonfed opinions, and I hope that you showed me the same respect of not thinking I am just spewing back whatever I was told in class. I disagree with my professors all the time, but that's neither here nor there.

What is important is that we both (and I really think more than just the both of us, probably everyone in this thread) share a common bond, we want what's best for the country. We disagree in what should be done to make the country better but I think we understand each others stances better, and I have enjoyed discussing (and learning about) this issue.

What I don't like is labeling and stereo-typing. After all, if the entire middle east was whacked and full of lunatics why would we waste our time trying to help them?

You know, speaking of sterotyping I had a friend who came over and was reading over my shoulder while I typed in a reply earlier this afternoon, and he laughed out loud at the idea of me being a "left-wing liberal queer", labeling doesn't do anyone any good and it's only a method of belittling someone elses opinion, and people only do that when they A.) Don't feel their argument is strong enough but they can't back down because they are in too deep. B.) they don't know why they feel like they do, it's just a gut feeling.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:28 am

-"And I DO NOT appreciate you acting as though you are superior"
-"Wow Skinsfan you have alot to learn."

Conversely I do not appreciate someone else acting superior. You may or may not have meant anything by the 2nd statement, but saying someone has a lot to learn because they don't see things the way you do is condecending and is really the problem I am seeing with the arguments being made here.

"I do however have to correct you on a few things. Patriotism is about loving your country, on whatever level that means. I don't see you wearing a uniform so obviously your way of loving this country is different then some others."

Has this not been my stance on patriotism all along? Patriotism is loving your country, but you don't have to agree with it! I hate how the word patriotism has been used to make people complacent with new policies. Patriotism is loving your country and wanting the best for it.

"Secondly you cannot believe everything and anything you read in the media is the full truth. There is inteligence none of us knows and for good reason. There are still men in uniform risking their lives over there. After this is over, you can look back with the rest of us and thank goodness the President acted when he did."

You're assuming that this is the 100% correct thing to do. What possible reason could they have for not making their true motives known? What possible information could their be that would instantly change my mind on this subject that hasn't been disclosed?! If there is information out there like this, then it does NO good to keep it a secret, we could have worldwide support if such information was available.

"Just believe me when I say it's just as unfair for you to assume that the ones who disagree with you are spoonfed their opinions as it is for someone to say you are only influenced by your liberal instructors."

This is just a paraphrase of what appeared in my post! I said that: "Just letting people spoonfeed you your conclusions is not the way to go, and by saying that, I am not accusing anyone in particular... and the idea perpetuated by others that I have had my conclusions spoonfed to be by queer, left-wing, liberal professors is insulting and assinine." completely the same sentiment as what I said!

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 4:33 pm

I was a US Marine for 4 years. I spent time in North Carolina and Okinawa, Japan. I did so because I beleive in what this country stands for. I believe in freedom. I believe in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We all have to realize that we are having this great debate. Do you know what would have happened if Saddam Hussien was our leader and we were caught having this debate? Prison? Death? The murder of our entire families. That is what the people of Iraq lived with on a dialy basis.

Joe, you have your opinion and I respect that. As an American it is your right to do so. You can be a patriot without agreeing with our foriegn policy. That is why America is the greatest country on the face of the earth.

I just want everyone in this thread to remember that if it wasn't for the people of the military and their bravery, this conversation would not be possible. With the help of the brave men and women sacrificing everyday in Iraq, the Iraqis will someday have that same freedom. George Bush acted as he thought he must. Had America taken a premptive strike at Afghanastan, maybe September 11th could have been prevented. We will never know. If we had let the Iraq government continue to rub elbows with Bin Laden, maybe nothing would have happened. I for one would rather rid the world of a tyrant and maybe prevent another September 11th than to wait until after another tragedy to occur to act.

God Bless America, God Bless Freedom, and Hail to the Redskins!

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:04 pm

55...Come out to Dover and spend one day at work with me in the mortuary....I hope and pray that your friend and I never meet!! But if we do will his service have been in vain?

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:41 pm

I hope you never have to meet Chris too, at least not at work anyway...

But I don't think soldiers lives are wasted, obviously we're accomplishing SOME positives over there. I just wonder how many more soldiers will be taken before it's all over

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:36 pm

Sorry if my post made it sound like I was talking down to you. I was tired and frustrated. I obviously feel strongly about this subject. I meant no insult to you and I'm sorry if it came off that way.

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:18 pm

JansenFan - you make me proud man! I used to get worked up if people said they didn't vote - now I'm thankful they don't. I'm very thankful for any person serving our country in the military. I've got friends over there now - and I pray for their safe return. I also pray that the evil bastards hiding among the real people are found, burried deep and forgotten. Saddam was a terrorist :banker, friend, harborer and paid blood money to Hammas suicide killers. No question he was prime for a thumping. Still, I'd rather hear whining that we were being too harsh - than 'are we being sensative enough.' The more asswhipping the better. Word to good Iraqui's - point out the punks and stand far away!

Texas Hog · Post by **Texas Hog** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:27 am

nah...they're not "whacked"

BASRA, Iraq - Suicide attackers detonated simultaneous car bombs against police buildings during rush hour Wednesday, killing 68 people, including children, in the bloodiest attacks to hit this southern, mainly Shiite city since the U.S.-led occupation began a year ago.

AP Photo

Reuters
Slideshow: Iraq

Al-Sadr Halts Attacks on Spanish Troops
(AP Video)

Latest headlines:
· Car Bombs Leave 68 Dead in Southern Iraq
AP - 3 minutes ago
· St. Louis Reporters See Fierce Iraq Fight
AP - 5 minutes ago
· 68 killed in Iraq bombings as deadly battles rage in Fallujah
AFP - 5 minutes ago
Special Coverage

Iraqis pulled charred and torn bodies from mangled vehicles in front of the Saudia police station, located by Basra's crowded main street market — one of three stations and a police academy hit by a total of five car bombs, according to Basra's governor.

About 200 people were wounded, officials said.

Two vans passing the Saudia station were destroyed — one carrying kindergartners, the other taking girls to middle school. Dead children, burned beyond recognition, were taken to hospital morgues.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:30 am

You can't say EVERY person from a large region of people is insane.

Yes, that is a terrible tragedy, but those responsible represent a tiny portion of the people of Iraq.

redskinz4ever · Post by **redskinz4ever** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:31 am

i don't vote but we live in america and that alone gives me and who ever else who whats to speak thier minds can.so with that i say... we tried to help which at the time i thought was the right choice and still do.but at the same time from where i stand seems to me that a lot of people from iraq don't. want our help any more.so we tried to be the big brother and with over 600 deaths right now, when is enough...ENOUGH.don't give me that i'am not american cause i don't vote crap.i support the armed forces very much and i love what they do for "MY COUNTRY"so you have freedom to vote and i have the freedom to not vote if i chose not to.i understand the way of life overseas but guess what... what gives us the right to change thier way of life or who or what someone believes in.we got saddam hussien and thats great!!!but its time to bring our troops home-don't let this become another vietnam war where we tried to make a difference and lost a lot of lives.so in closing i hope we are doing the right thing by standing our ground overseas.REDSKINZ4EVER!!!!