When The Offense......

[roybus14]

Went Bad and Then Worst.....

The offense went bad when Joe Gibbs came back and decided that he would trade, at the time, the best cover corner in the game for a running back that is not a "Redskins Football" type of running back. Instead of sending Bailey to the Jets for Lamont Jordan (a definite Redskins type of back) and possibly John Abraham (a need at DE) and another player, he opted for Portis. Now I'm not saying Portis is a dog or sucks or anything like that but he's just not a "Redskins Football" type of RB, IMO.

Then Joe Gibbs decides that he would bring in Mark Brunell who was well passed his prime and on the down swing of his career, pushing Patrick Ramsey aside and never really giving the kid a chance, nor looking for any other QBs.

Then you saw what happened. We wallowed thru that season and "squeaked" into the playoffs only to lose because the offense could not get it going and Mr. Rogers dropped a sure Int. for touchdown that may have sealed the game.

Then without any notice to the players, as evident by their grumbling of why they were getting away from what they had at the end of the season, Joe Gibbs goes and signs Al Saunders. Al Saunders offense is differently different from Joe Gibbs' offense and the players were not sold it. The offense struggled with Al's offense and at the same time Gibbs was still meddling with the offensive game plan. Well you know the rest of the story for that season.

Now, the offense has gotten worse even though we have a new, young, strong-arm QB. Why? Partly because of injuries but mostly because Gibbs has still not relinquished control of the offense to Al and this team is struggling with this "mixed bag." Add on the failure by Gibbs to make in-game and half-time adjustments, which he was famously known for in the past. Yes, I said Gibbs and did not say Saunders or Gibbs and Saunders. Why? Because Joe has his hands all in Al's cookie jar. Top all of that off with the fact that you have young QB who's just going through the motions and not being put into position to really lead this offense. Partly because of his demeanor and partly because of Gibbs' ultra-conservative nature.

So to sum it all up:

This offense went from bad to worse because of the decision making of the HC. Yes, folks have been saying "well what about the players?" Yes the players do have some fault in all of this but it's up to the HC to lead them, get them disciplined and on the same page, and get them ready to win each Sunday. That's why you have coaches in sports. Someone has to manage the game and the players, otherwise you would have total chaos. It's up to the coaches to game-plan and instruct these guys on what to do and if these players can't get it done, cut them loose.


Your thoughts.....

[Deadskins]

That non-"Redskins Football" type of running back owns the single season rushing record for this franchise. He earned this record despite missing the final two and a half games with an injury, so you can't even say he did it over 16 games where past RBs only had 14 games in a season.

According to you, our bad offense in 2004 (30th in the league), went to worse in 2005 (11th in the league) and 2006 (13th in the league).

Maybe you should get back on that bus, Roy.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Your thoughts.....

[crazyhorse1]

Went Bad and Then Worst.....

The offense went bad when Joe Gibbs came back and decided that he would trade, at the time, the best cover corner in the game for a running back that is not a "Redskins Football" type of running back. Instead of sending Bailey to the Jets for Lamont Jordan (a definite Redskins type of back) and possibly John Abraham (a need at DE) and another player, he opted for Portis. Now I'm not saying Portis is a dog or sucks or anything like that but he's just not a "Redskins Football" type of RB, IMO.

Then Joe Gibbs decides that he would bring in Mark Brunell who was well passed his prime and on the down swing of his career, pushing Patrick Ramsey aside and never really giving the kid a chance, nor looking for any other QBs.


This seems to me to be an accurate summary of the last four years, unfortunately, the most fatal of the elements being Gibbs' failure to adapt to the new NFL and his acquistion of Brunell. His handling of personel, in particular his insistence on forcing players into his system rather than exploiting their talents, has been damaging, even more than his losing players and wasting players on the bench.
Then you saw what happened. We wallowed thru that season and "squeaked" into the playoffs only to lose because the offense could not get it going and Mr. Rogers dropped a sure Int. for touchdown that may have sealed the game.

Then without any notice to the players, as evident by their grumbling of why they were getting away from what they had at the end of the season, Joe Gibbs goes and signs Al Saunders. Al Saunders offense is differently different from Joe Gibbs' offense and the players were not sold it. The offense struggled with Al's offense and at the same time Gibbs was still meddling with the offensive game plan. Well you know the rest of the story for that season.

Now, the offense has gotten worse even though we have a new, young, strong-arm QB. Why? Partly because of injuries but mostly because Gibbs has still not relinquished control of the offense to Al and this team is struggling with this "mixed bag." Add on the failure by Gibbs to make in-game and half-time adjustments, which he was famously known for in the past. Yes, I said Gibbs and did not say Saunders or Gibbs and Saunders. Why? Because Joe has his hands all in Al's cookie jar. Top all of that off with the fact that you have young QB who's just going through the motions and not being put into position to really lead this offense. Partly because of his demeanor and partly because of Gibbs' ultra-conservative nature.

So to sum it all up:

This offense went from bad to worse because of the decision making of the HC. Yes, folks have been saying "well what about the players?" Yes the players do have some fault in all of this but it's up to the HC to lead them, get them disciplined and on the same page, and get them ready to win each Sunday. That's why you have coaches in sports. Someone has to manage the game and the players, otherwise you would have total chaos. It's up to the coaches to game-plan and instruct these guys on what to do and if these players can't get it done, cut them loose.


Your thoughts.....

[roybus14]

That non-"Redskins Football" type of running back owns the single season rushing record for this franchise. He earned this record despite missing the final two and a half games with an injury, so you can't even say he did it over 16 games where past RBs only had 14 games in a season.

According to you, our bad offense in 2004 (30th in the league), went to worse in 2005 (11th in the league) and 2006 (13th in the league).

Maybe you should get back on that bus, Roy.

Thanks for letting me know about "that bus" which was fifteen minutes late by the way.....

Know matter how many rankings you pull up from year to year, right now this team is in trouble offensively. It's good to be at 5-3 but I think that this city deserves more than that, especially since the guy running the show is a HOF Coach with three rings. I guy with that resume and going on three years into the job should have this team rolling. Right now, we should be at the top of the NFC with Dallas and one of those teams in the league with only one loss. It's like people are scared or don't want to set an expectation for Joe Gibbs and this team because he got us three championships over 15-16 years ago.

Let's be real now.... This team and especially this offense should rolling and be consistent at this point. What more has this version of Joe Gibbs done in terms of wins, losses and rings for this team that the coaches prior to him coming have done???? Then he brings in one of the best offensive minds in football only to have earn about 1/3 of the $2.5 million dollars that he's getting paid. The other 2/3's is made sleeping at the wheel. Yeah I said 1/3, because that's about all this offense has done with what Al brings to the table, if that. Joe Gibbs didn't get buy-in from the players on Al and IMO, that's why alot was made at Redskins Park about this being such a "complicated" offense because these guys never really bought into, IMO. It's year two with Al's offense and it looks nothing like it. Players that played in his offense in the past said that it will take about a year to absorb it but after that year, things should start clicking.

Let's not sugar coat this; pull out rankings and stats; make excuses; etc. It is what it is. This offense continues down this path, we'll be looking at another season of "Why Joe?"

[joebagadonuts]

I think perhaps it's not that the offense has gotten wrose (which rankings prove is not the case), but that it has not gotten significantly better. We were expecting something more, and didn't get it.

[GSPODS]

I think perhaps it's not that the offense has gotten wrose (which rankings prove is not the case), but that it has not gotten significantly better. We were expecting something more, and didn't get it.

I don't know who WRose is, but can he catch?
You make an excellent point. This was not going to turn into a 35 point per game offense during one offseason. Anyone who thought or expected as much was fooling themself. It may still happen but certainly not overnight.

[riggofan]

Not really buying all of this argument.

Injuries aside, Portis has been a decent Redskin.

I'll share your frustration though about the Brunell fiasco. We wasted a lot of time there and still can't throw the ball downfield it seems.

[joebagadonuts]

Anyone who thought or expected as much was fooling themself. It may still happen but certainly not overnight.

Well, I think roy's argument is that we've had three-plus years under Gibbs, and one-plus under Saunders so far. After all that time, we should be seeing that significant improvement we were expecting. Which won't happen until they give this W. Rose guy a shot.

[cleg]

Not really buying all of this argument.

Injuries aside, Portis has been a decent Redskin.

I'll share your frustration though about the Brunell fiasco. We wasted a lot of time there and still can't throw the ball downfield it seems.

Not only did the horrible decision to bring Mark Brunell in here waste time but effectively ruined Gibbs II. The reason is not only did the team waste time and draft picks on Brunell but did not have a yound QB in the wings preparing to come in. We'd have been much better off with Patrick Ramsey and another QB like J. Camp.

Oh, hell I am not making sense....

Brunell sucked, that's all and I hated every game he played for us.

[Deadskins]

Brunell sucked, that's all and I hated every game he played for us.

Even the two Cowpie games in 2005?

[cleg]

Brunell sucked, that's all and I hated every game he played for us.

Even the two Cowpie games in 2005?

An aberration. I am tired of having that be the highlight of the last 15 years of Redskin football too.

[Deadskins]

Brunell sucked, that's all and I hated every game he played for us.

Even the two Cowpie games in 2005?

An aberration. I am tired of having that be the highlight of the last 15 years of Redskin football too.

May be, but you said you hated every game he played for us. And sad as it may be, those two games and the blocked kick game last season, are the highlights from the last 15 years of the rivalry.

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

Brunell sucked, that's all and I hated every game he played for us.

Even the two Cowpie games in 2005?

An aberration. I am tired of having that be the highlight of the last 15 years of Redskin football too.

May be, but you said you hated every game he played for us. And sad as it may be, those two games and the blocked kick game last season, are the highlights from the last 15 years of the rivalry.

Don't forget the 5 in a row or we don't go feat, also QB'd by Brunell.

[cleg]

Brunell sucked, that's all and I hated every game he played for us.

Even the two Cowpie games in 2005?

An aberration. I am tired of having that be the highlight of the last 15 years of Redskin football too.

May be, but you said you hated every game he played for us. And sad as it may be, those two games and the blocked kick game last season, are the highlights from the last 15 years of the rivalry.

Don't forget the 5 in a row or we don't go feat, also QB'd by Brunell.

Big whoop.

[redskingush]

I have to agree with alot roybus has said, and from what i read from the rebutals, we are all hanging onto 2005, not really understanding the team is having troubles on the offensive side of the ball since the playoffs began in 05. The club has not played there best football in 07 and we are 5-3, and in a good spot in the NFC. I hope things are gonna move forward this week vs the eagles and further after that.

[PulpExposure]

Brunell sucked, that's all and I hated every game he played for us.

Even the two Cowpie games in 2005?

An aberration. I am tired of having that be the highlight of the last 15 years of Redskin football too.

May be, but you said you hated every game he played for us. And sad as it may be, those two games and the blocked kick game last season, are the highlights from the last 15 years of the rivalry.

Don't forget the 5 in a row or we don't go feat, also QB'd by Brunell.

Big whoop.

The problem with you is you live in Philly, and you've been infected with Phillyitis.

Phillyitis: Unreasonable fan expectations.

[roybus14]

Anyone who thought or expected as much was fooling themself. It may still happen but certainly not overnight.

Well, I think roy's argument is that we've had three-plus years under Gibbs, and one-plus under Saunders so far. After all that time, we should be seeing that significant improvement we were expecting. Which won't happen until they give this W. Rose guy a shot.

Jooooeeeeeyyyy!!!! My man...... Finally someone see's through my written novel.....

[aswas71788]

First, Bailey was not going to stay with the Redskins no matter what. Everyone seems to forget that fact. Clinton Portis has been everything that the Redskins could want in a running back. As for Brunell, I agree with the sentiment. He may have given the best he had at the time but he was long past his production years. I still have misgivings about the way Gibbs handled the Ramsey affair. Ramsey got a raw deal from Spurrier, who painted a bulls-eye on him and said to the other teams, Come and get him! Gibbs handling of the Ramsey affair was very unprofessional, at best. Gibbs seemingly was right about Ramsey's ability since Ramsey has not been very effective with other teams. However, that incident seems to be the indication of things to come; Bailey, Pierce, Archuleta, Arrington, Lloyd, etc. Every year internal problems seem to be the norm in the Redskins. If it was one player, one year, I can agree that it is the player. But when there is a player(s) every year, I think it is the fault of the coaches.

Injuries have had been a big part of the offenses problem but all teams suffer injuries and are expected to find a way to counter those injuries. Al Saunders offense has worked everywhere he has been except here after the first year. The difference here is that Joe Gibbs continues to tweek(?), interfere (?) in the offensive scheme. Why should the players buy into Saunders scheme when they know that Gibbs doesn't?

Gibbs has done some good things, Portis, Moss, Fletcher, Taylor, Landry. But, I am not impressed with Gibbs 2. The team is disfunctional.

[langleyparkjoe]

I have so much hatred for the cowpunks that plays like the 2 passes Brunell had, Lavar ending Aikman's career, and Santana catching those 2 passes mean alot to me! Heck, this week I was telling someone that I remember those 2 catches like it was yesterday!!!.. Wait, what was the thread about again? lol

GO SKINS !!! KILL DA EAGLES !!!

[roybus14]

First, Bailey was not going to stay with the Redskins no matter what. Everyone seems to forget that fact. Clinton Portis has been everything that the Redskins could want in a running back. As for Brunell, I agree with the sentiment. He may have given the best he had at the time but he was long past his production years. I still have misgivings about the way Gibbs handled the Ramsey affair. Ramsey got a raw deal from Spurrier, who painted a bulls-eye on him and said to the other teams, Come and get him! Gibbs handling of the Ramsey affair was very unprofessional, at best. Gibbs seemingly was right about Ramsey's ability since Ramsey has not been very effective with other teams. However, that incident seems to be the indication of things to come; Bailey, Pierce, Archuleta, Arrington, Lloyd, etc. Every year internal problems seem to be the norm in the Redskins. If it was one player, one year, I can agree that it is the player. But when there is a player(s) every year, I think it is the fault of the coaches.

Injuries have had been a big part of the offenses problem but all teams suffer injuries and are expected to find a way to counter those injuries. Al Saunders offense has worked everywhere he has been except here after the first year. The difference here is that Joe Gibbs continues to tweek(?), interfere (?) in the offensive scheme. Why should the players buy into Saunders scheme when they know that Gibbs doesn't?

Gibbs has done some good things, Portis, Moss, Fletcher, Taylor, Landry. But, I am not impressed with Gibbs 2. The team is disfunctional.

I hear you. But check it:

Portis is not the back, IMO, for Redskins Football but he is the back for Al Saunders' football. Yes, I will not deny the fact that Clinton has proved himself here but with his size in "Redskins Football" he was bound to start breaking down. In Al's system, yes Holmes and Johnson carried the ball alot but the punishment they did take worked out because they averaged 1300-1500+ yards a year and their offense scored points with and off that in bunches. Now, if you take the KC offense from 2000 to 2005 and put our defense or the Baltimore Ravens defense behind it, you'd get a least 2-3 SB's if not more out of that time period.

And you proved my point about the "buy-in" and it shows that this Joe Gibbs needs to go. That was and is still continuing to an inept decision and job..... There's no other way to point it. How other way do you put it when the HC, a HOF HC at that, meddles, tweaks, and handcuffs an OC that has a proven track record for running offenses?????

That's why folks are starting to call for Billick's head in Baltimore. He's had a dominating defense since 2000 and failed miserably to put a solid and consistent offense behind it. Yeah they had a good year last year but they gambled with McNair, got that good year out of him and now he and that offense is done.....

[BnGhog]

One things for sure, Gibbs stands by, what he believes in.

My only question would be why hire a OC when you know you don't like his style? He had to have known he didn't want him calling plays like that when he hired him.

At the time, made sense to me. We went to the Playoffs. Our problem that year was if we got behind we stayed behind (most of the time). And Gibbs plays didn't work when trying to come from 2 score down.(I know, I know.. except in that one game).

Al could have helped. But it seems Gibbs don't let him help. The whole thing just baffles me.

[welch]

My only question would be why hire a OC when you know you don't like his style? He had to have known he didn't want him calling plays like that when he hired him.

How do we know that Gibbs doesn't like Saunders' style? We know that Saunders learned his offense from the same "school" that taught Gibbs, or, as Dick Vermeil told the Post, the Saunders offense is the Gibbs offense with variations.

What else?

[hailskins666]

what i just don't get with the offense is why the hell we don't run those timed pattern throws that keep defenses on their heels. i understand that they are risky in the fact that passes can be picked off in the blink of an eye, but it is extremely hard for defenses to adjust to those on the spot passes. i know gibbs is a 'protect the football' type guy. but, you have to take a few chances to win in todays nfl. this just brings up the gibbs vs. saunders debate even more. saunders O in KC threw a TON of timed routes. he doesn't here. is it gibbs fear of a turnover, or is it a young QB that the coaches don't trust to make that decision, in game?

either way, the on field offense is putrid.

[Montana Redskin]

I still think we have to wait it out a bit and see how this W Rose guy turns out. I mean, how do we know , he could be an Art Monkish guyish move the chains animal or a Gary Clark type, hit em deep.

W Rose, I think, Is going to help out a ton, take the heat off double teams on Moss.

Maybe he'll catch the first WR TD this year, this weekend?

I don't know squat about him, can't find him, but Roybus knows something we don't!