Hognostications TRAITORS or misunderstood souls?

[Justice Hog]

JH, you know that we're buds, but I cannot back you up on this.
Are you a skins fan? yes
Are you fully committed to the skins? If you pick against them then I'd say the answer is no.

Okay, and I know this is gonna be tough for some of you. Let's look at the big picture here. This will be the last attempt I make at convincing you folks.

If you are searching for a committed Redskins fan, it will be hard for you to find someone more committed than I.

Remember, this is just a "for fun" football pool. This is certainly not a guage on how to rate one's Redskins fandome.

To suggest that I am not committed to the Redskins simply because I pick against them one week in a stupid football pool in a year is just ths stupidest damn thing I've ever heard.

Then again, you all have the right to have your opinions - no matter how stupid or brainless those opinions are.

Now, if you want to call me a "non-loyal" Redskins fan for this one week, I'll eat crow on that statement and agree that I did, in fact, pick against the Redskins. Hard to fight that comment.

To suggest that I am not a "committed" Redskins fan because I picked against them once is just ludicrous.

Do I want the Skins to win this week even though I picked against them? You're damn right I do!!! If I said I do not, then you could claim I was not "committed" to the Redskins.

[GSPODS]

JH, you know that we're buds, but I cannot back you up on this.
Are you a skins fan? yes
Are you fully committed to the skins? If you pick against them then I'd say the answer is no.

Okay, and I know this is gonna be tough for some of you. Let's look at the big picture here. This will be the last attempt I make at convincing you folks.

If you are searching for a committed Redskins fan, it will be hard for you to find someone more committed than I.

Remember, this is just a "for fun" football pool. This is certainly not a guage on how to rate one's Redskins fandome.

To suggest that I am not committed to the Redskins simply because I pick against them one week in a stupid football pool in a year is just ths stupidest damn thing I've ever heard.

Then again, you all have the right to have your opinions - no matter how stupid or brainless those opinions are.

Now, if you want to call me a "non-loyal" Redskins fan for this one week, I'll eat crow on that statement and agree that I did, in fact, pick against the Redskins. Hard to fight that comment.

To suggest that I am not a "committed" Redskins fan because I picked against them once is just ludicrous.

Do I want the Skins to win this week even though I picked against them? You're damn right I do!!! If I said I do not, then you could claim I was not "committed" to the Redskins.

JH, I think there is, or at least there should be a clear line drawn between being a committed Redskins fan and being a Hognosticator / "Hognostitraitor". For the purposes of this argument, the term "Hognostitraitor" only applies to the THN football pool, and not to one's caliber of commitment to the Redskins overall. One would be hard-pressed to find a Redskins fan more committed to attending home games, harrassing opponent's fans, and proudly displaying the Burgundy & Gold than yourself. If you'll pardon the legal reference, THN has the photographic evidence.

The primary reason for debate on the Hognostications issue is more or less a non-issue. We win nothing by blindly selecting the Redskins each week. And, conversely, we should lose nothing, including the respect of our fellow Redskins fans, for choosing not to blindly select the Redskins each week. You play to win the game. An element of competition is removed if the pool is handicapped by every member selecting the same team each week.

Fios and I disagree on this point. He has stated that because there is no money or award involved, he cannot understand anyone picking against the Redskins. From my perspective, if there were money or a valued award involved it would be less understandable to pick against the Redskins. I believe one should never place a wager against one's own team. Personal difference, no more, no less.

I, for one, do not question your commitment to the Redskins. I do, however, enjoy breaking balls when given the opportunity. From having read both this thread and the Hognostications thread in their entirety, I get the sense that other posters may take this issue more seriously than it deserves to be taken.

[Fios]

Well, that was a lot of tap-dancing. 1niksder sees no reason why they can't win, Redskins in Canada expects them to win, Fios thinks they can win.

Kudos to JSPB22 for the straight answer. Although I forgot you were psychic, so you have an unfair advantage.

But since we are not betting our lives, or our life savings here, but instead only bragging rights, I see no logical reason to pick against the Redskins ever in hognostications. Why can't the hognostitraitors wrap their minds around that concept?

Because some people think it's silly to change their true predictions based on the color jersey they wear. I understand why you guys feel like you do, I just think it's pretty lame.

But what bugs me, and the reason I inserted myself into this in the first place, is how you guys go about dealing with people who see things differently. You're bullies. I know - if people don't like how they are being treated, they don't have to play, or don't have to pick against the Redskins. But that's just the same as the playground bully saying if kids don't want to get beat up, they don't have to use the slide.

Bullies? Who has bullied you? Are you prevented from posting in any way? Have your picks been invalidated? I have maybe 10 posts on this topic, one of them being a response to your question. You are picking against the Redskins on a Redskins fan site in a contest that is virtually meaningless. Further still, there are Redskins fans volunteering their time to run this contest (not to mention this site) so you can participate. What kind of reaction did you expect?

[Steve Spurrier III]

Bullies?

Bullies.

Who has bullied you?

Seriously? You don't consider name-calling, public humiliation and intimidation bullying? We're interacting over the internet - no one can issue wedgies or a purple nurples. If this isn't bullying, what is?

Do you think there are posters who choose not to play or do pick the Redskins every week to avoid being hassled by Redskin in Canada? Because I would be shocked if there weren't.

Are you prevented from posting in any way? Have your picks been invalidated?

No, I haven't, and they haven't. I never said or implied that was the case.

I have maybe 10 posts on this topic, one of them being a response to your question.

That's true, and I should have been more specific. Not everyone is bullying, and you certainly aren't one of those.

You are picking against the Redskins on a Redskins fan site in a contest that is virtually meaningless.

I think the meaninglessness is debatable. It's very clear that this contest means a lot to a lot of people here.

Further still, there are Redskins fans volunteering their time to run this contest (not to mention this site) so you can participate.

And I appreciate it.

What kind of reaction did you expect?

Exactly the one I got. That doesn't make it appropriate. I'm not saying anyone broke any rules - they haven't. I just don't like seeing others bullied.

[Jake]

Remember, this is just a "for fun" football pool. This is certainly not a guage on how to rate one's Redskins fandome.

To suggest that I am not committed to the Redskins simply because I pick against them one week in a stupid football pool in a year is just ths stupidest damn thing I've ever heard.

Agreed.

[Redskin in Canada]

Who has bullied you?

Seriously? You don't consider name-calling, public humiliation and intimidation bullying? We're interacting over the internet - no one can issue wedgies or a purple nurples. If this isn't bullying, what is?

Do you think there are posters who choose not to play or do pick the Redskins every week to avoid being hassled by Redskin in Canada? Because I would be shocked if there weren't.

Oh please cry me a river, better yet, make it an ocean.

You are not and have never even been part of the Hognostications Tournament. If you recall, you came to this week's competition -specifically- to calling to be inducted in the HALL OF SHAME. Remember?

This is about you trying to make a point. You have made it. The evidence provided by several reasoned positions on both sides of the debate are listed above for all to see. That is why the thread was created in the first place.

My conclusion is that you lost this debate. This is not a civil rights movement. This is not about the "Freedom to Hognosticate", much less the "Freedom to Post" issue.

This is a Redskins Board in which SPORTSMANSHIP is valued, and when it is not honoured, posters are called for it by other posters.

1) Nobody compelled you to be a poster here.
2) Nobody compelled you to enter the Hognostications Tournament.
3) Nobody compelled you to enter this week's competition.
4) Nobody compelled you to pick against the Redskins.
5) Nobody compelled you to participate in the Hognostications Thread.
6) Nobody compelled you to participate in the Hognostications Poll thread.

You CHOSE to do all of the above at all times. You wanted and looked for this debate and you got it. We all have provided arguments and our opinions. You may still choose to disagree. It is everybody' prerogative to do so. After all, it is only the SPORTSMANSHIP status of a poster in front of its fellow posters that it is at stake. Call it meaningless if you wish. Some of us think differently.

And yes, there is complete freedom to pick against the Skins.

[Redskin in Canada]

Now, if you want to call me a "non-loyal" Redskins fan for this one week, I'll eat crow on that statement and agree that I did, in fact, pick against the Redskins. Hard to fight that comment.

Agreed.

[Jake]

This is a Redskins Board in which SPORTSMANSHIP is valued....

So you call people names every week when they don't envision the same outcome of a future game as you? That's real sportsmanlike to me.

Makes real sense.

[UK Skins Fan]

Frankly, I think there's as much guff spouted on this one topic as there is on anything else on these boards. Sometimes, methinks we try to intellectualise too much.

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

One would be hard-pressed to find a Redskins fan more committed to attending home games, harrassing opponent's fans, and proudly displaying the Burgundy & Gold than yourself...I, for one, do not question your commitment to the Redskins. I do, however, enjoy breaking balls when given the opportunity.

Way to stick to your guns:

...the only thing most of us have in common is the Washington Redskins. When we no longer have even that in common, it's open season. I may as well be talking to a Dallas fan at that point.

I think you deserve a refund. Here you go:

[Deadskins]

This is a Redskins Board in which SPORTSMANSHIP is valued....

So you call people names every week when they don't envision the same outcome of a future game as you? That's real sportsmanlike to me.

Makes real sense.

Well, to be fair, he only calls people names who pick against the Redskins. It's not like he called you out for picking St. Louis over Cleveland.

[Jake]

This is a Redskins Board in which SPORTSMANSHIP is valued....

So you call people names every week when they don't envision the same outcome of a future game as you? That's real sportsmanlike to me.

Makes real sense.

Well, to be fair, he only calls people names who pick against the Redskins. It's not like he calls you out for picking Indy over Carolina.

My point still remains. It doesn't change the fact that it's unsportsmanlike.

[Deadskins]

This is a Redskins Board in which SPORTSMANSHIP is valued....

So you call people names every week when they don't envision the same outcome of a future game as you? That's real sportsmanlike to me.

Makes real sense.

Well, to be fair, he only calls people names who pick against the Redskins. It's not like he calls you out for picking Indy over Carolina.

My point still remains. It doesn't change the fact that it's unsportsmanlike.

Way to quote me before I could look up an actual instance where he didn't "envision the same outcome of a future game as you."
How sportsmanlike is that?

[Redskin in Canada]

This is a Redskins Board in which SPORTSMANSHIP is valued....

So you call people names every week when they don't envision the same outcome of a future game as you? That's real sportsmanlike to me.

Makes real sense.

Well, to be fair, he only calls people names who pick against the Redskins. It's not like he calls you out for picking Indy over Carolina.

My point still remains. It doesn't change the fact that it's unsportsmanlike.

JSPB,

Do not waste your time trying to clarify "little generalisations" in his post. It does not matter how many people (not only me but also fellow staff and other serious posters) try to explain to him in many different intelligent ways and tones that picking against your team is wrong from a SPORTSMANSHIP perspective, he will stick to a proud and stubborn position that places him picking against HIS team and trying to defend it in front of all.

And I thought that Jake had potential to grow in several ways. Obviously not yet. Definitely not yet.

[Steve Spurrier III]

You are not and have never even been part of the Hognostications Tournament. If you recall, you came to this week's competition -specifically- to calling to be inducted in the HALL OF SHAME. Remember?

That's right. It bothers me how you treat people who disagree with you, and I felt this was as good a week as ever to say something.

This is about you trying to make a point. You have made it.

That's right, I have. This will be my last post on the topic.

My conclusion is that you lost this debate.

Well I guess that settles it. My conclusion is that you lost the debate.

This is a Redskins Board in which SPORTSMANSHIP is valued, and when it is not honoured, posters are called for it by other posters.

You and I have a very different view of sportsmanship, respect and honor.

Let me just, say, I'm not upset as to how I personally was treated - I knew exactly what I was getting into. I'm upset how you treat others, people who aren't necessarily looking for a fight. Obviously, this isn't my board, and I like it enough to stick around. I'm not accusing you of breaking the rules or the moderators of not enforcing them. But the fact still remains that you spit venom dissenters, people who are supposedly your fellow fans. Who are you to tell others how they need to behave as fans?

[Redskin in Canada]

Well I guess that settles it. My conclusions is that you lost the debate.

Look at the Poll above ...

Who are you to tell others how they need to behave as fans?

Obviously a poster equally qualified to express a view about sportsmanship just as you did above. Nothing more but nothing less.

This is not the first time that we disagree. We had a very different perspective on the qualifications of Art Monk to be inducted in the HOF. You lost that one and if you were looking for any vindication here, well, according to -you-, you found it!

Try harder next time.

[Justice Hog]

The simple truth, I think is this:

We all are hard-core Redskins fan. We all, for the most part, bleed burgundy and gold. That goes without saying.

When it comes to a simple contest where we pick who we think will win each week, we should all be entitled to pick who we think will win each game without being called names like traitor, etc.

Now, if I were a bettin' man, I would venture to bet that anyone, like me, who picked the Pats to win this week - in a stinking little contest - would love to lose that bet and actually see the Redskins kick some Patriots ass!!!

I am certanily one of those people.

No matter who I pick in the little contest......I want the Redskins to win.

Go Redskins!

Can we all, at least, agree on that?!?!?!

[Redskin in Canada]

No matter who I pick in the little contest......I want the Redskins to win.

Go Redskins!

Can we all, at least, agree on that?!?!?!

Yes, I thought we did.

As you correctly pointed out, everybody is FREE to pick ANYTHING they want. But also as you pointed out, it should not come as a surprise, in a Redskins Board, if some amount of ridicule is handed out.

By the way, "stinking little contest" ???

Man, I am going after you regardless of who wins in Foxboro this week !!!

It is only appropriate that everybody has heard about the "curse of the Bambino". You are only beginning to become acquainted with the "Curse of RiC":

Anybody who picks against the Skins on any given week during that season does not win the Hognostications Tournament.

To be politically correct, perhaps we should not call posters yellow coward TRAITORS. Maybe we should use a more politically correct, gender unbiased, sexual orientatiuon free, non-religious term. Perhaps:

"The SPORTSMANSHIPLESS Awards" would be less colorfoul but more appropriate. We could hold a thread to hand the Awards like the Oscars or the Tonys.

How about "The Jakes" ??? But I am open to other suggestions.

... or we could still continue to call them you know what.

[Deadskins]

Now, if I were a bettin' man

If you were a bettin' man you would be being spotted 16.5 points. Would you still pick the Patsies? I wouldn't, but I think the 'Skins will win outright.

[HEROHAMO]

I got to say I do not consider these guys traitors, I mean alot of these guys have been posting on this site for years. The simple fact that they take time out of there lives to post on our site tells me the obviously are a fan of the Redskins.

I for one never pick against the Skins, but I always go with my heart. I wont call these guys who pick against the Skins traitors, because alot of these posters I have seen on this site for years and I know they are Skins Fans.

It is just dissapointing that some would pick against the Skins thats all. I am sure your mind is saying no way the Skins can win, but your heart is telling you somehow someway the Skins can do it.

[Jake]

This is a Redskins Board in which SPORTSMANSHIP is valued....

So you call people names every week when they don't envision the same outcome of a future game as you? That's real sportsmanlike to me.

Makes real sense.

Well, to be fair, he only calls people names who pick against the Redskins. It's not like he calls you out for picking Indy over Carolina.

My point still remains. It doesn't change the fact that it's unsportsmanlike.

Way to quote me before I could look up an actual instance where he didn't "envision the same outcome of a future game as you."
How sportsmanlike is that?

Then put it in your post before you cllick submit.

This is a Redskins Board in which SPORTSMANSHIP is valued....

So you call people names every week when they don't envision the same outcome of a future game as you? That's real sportsmanlike to me.

Makes real sense.

Well, to be fair, he only calls people names who pick against the Redskins. It's not like he calls you out for picking Indy over Carolina.

My point still remains. It doesn't change the fact that it's unsportsmanlike.

JSPB,

Do not waste your time trying to clarify "little generalisations" in his post. It does not matter how many people (not only me but also fellow staff and other serious posters) try to explain to him in many different intelligent ways and tones that picking against your team is wrong from a SPORTSMANSHIP perspective, he will stick to a proud and stubborn position that places him picking against HIS team and trying to defend it in front of all.

And I thought that Jake had potential to grow in several ways. Obviously not yet. Definitely not yet.

There you go again. Sidestepping the fact that the way you act on this board towards others has been irresponsible and UNSPORTSMANLIKE.

"Potential to grow." Whatever. Have you even been to a game? And don't even go on a spiel telling me you're "geographically challenged" and that you're waiting for the Bills future schedule to come out and hopefully they'll play the Skins in Toronto.

Have you ever been to a game screaming your ass off for this team to the point where you get a skull splitting headache that's so bad that it forces tears out of your eyes????? I highly doubt it.

I spend my hard earned money on season tickets to cheer on this team and support them every week. Because that's what I do every week in the hopes that the Redskins WIN.

Aren't you supposed to be the adult here? Then act like it instead of calling people "traitor" every week because you have nothing better to do.

[Jake]

I am sure your mind is saying no way the Skins can win, but your heart is telling you somehow someway the Skins can do it.

Exactly. I know the Skins can do it. They have the talent but I just don't see it happening realistically. I grew up in the Norv Turner era so victories, like if we happened to beat NE, are seldom.

[HEROHAMO]

Since this is such a hot topic, I propose next years Hognostications will exclude the participants from being able to choose the outcome of the Skins game.

[1niksder]

Since this is such a hot topic, I propose next years Hognostications will exclude the participants from being able to choose the outcome of the Skins game.

Then we wouldn't have this raging debate

[Redskin in Canada]

Have you even been to a game?

Have you ever been to a game screaming your ass off for this team to the point where you get a skull splitting headache that's so bad that it forces tears out of your eyes????? I highly doubt it.

I spend my hard earned money on season tickets to cheer on this team and support them every week. Because that's what I do every week in the hopes that the Redskins WIN.

... you have nothing better to do.

Oh! Jake, how appropriate. Let us start from the beginning:

1) That would be a low blow. Yes, I am geographically "challenged" and "disadvantaged". No Jake, I may have never attended games that I would have liked to.

2) I am a fan with a quiet, stern, solemn and calm behaviour. I would not scream any part of my body. Actually, the -whole- sections around me would have to behave in the same way from the start of every game.

3) I am hoping to receive great seats for free every week. I work very inefficiently and I would certainly could use a bit of more money.

4) You may have a better job (and better things to do) than the ones I have (and the things I have to do).

But let me ask you a question here ... IF

1) I had attended quite a few Redskins games in years past and some games during this season; and

2) I had been wearing burgundy and gold, singing Hail to the Redskins and joining the crowd in what the crowd does best; and

3) I had had to pay every time for international plane tickets, several days worth of hotel accommodation in DC and elsewhere, tickets to the games wearing as much burgundy and gold as any while singing Hail to the Redskins to the top of our lungs; and

4) I had better jobs than you do.

Would you then consider me to be a better fan than I am now in your view?