AL East is no longer the Tankees domain

[SkinsJock]

I just love the fact that we are now able to watch pure baseball between 2 teams - just a pleasure to have "pure" baseball and not that "manufactured" baseball that involved that bunch from NY

[GSPODS]

I just love the fact that we are now able to watch pure baseball between 2 teams - just a pleasure to have "pure" baseball and not that "manufactured" baseball that involved that bunch from NY

Tonight's first game was purely one-sided. I am anticipating one unhappy Cup tomorrow morning.

[ANT7088]

I just love the fact that we are now able to watch pure baseball between 2 teams - just a pleasure to have "pure" baseball and not that "manufactured" baseball that involved that bunch from NY

For not liking a team, you sure do think about them alot!

I would feel like a pathetic loser making a post about a baseball team I don't like on a football web site! You should Man-Up and go on a Yankees board & talk your crap, but I know neither of you would! You like the unfair odd 100-1.

Keep mocking the Yanks, you only have a few more months.

I guess from your point of view it must not be "pure" baseball, a team that wins as much as we do & make the playoffs as much as we do, wow you must feel like they're robots! I mean real people can't be as great as we are!


So are you another "bottom feeder" O's fan? Or do you convert after you realize your team is horrible. It's sad when your team hasn't made the Post Season for as many years as we have been making it!

The Yankees & Redskins are the 2 best francises in the world. We may not win championships every year, but our owners work the same way & really try to put a competitive team on the field every year! Anyone with 1/2 a brain knows it's impossible to win the whole thing every year. But to make the playoffs as often as the Yanks have is an accomplishment by itself.

Show me another team that has done what the Yanks have (besides Atlanta)?

Until then watch out for those Lobsters on the bottom!

[welch]

Look carefuly. The Yankees are not as "maufactured" as they appear. And the Red Sox look like equal dabbers in over-priced free agents.

[Deadskins]

Just because prospects come through the farm system, doesn't mean that the Yankees didn't outspend other teams to get them, or that their scouting department is not much larger than small market teams. Also they can afford to keep home-grown talent on the roster when other teams have to let players go for financial reasons. I'm not a Yankees hater, but to say that the system is fair is ludicrous.

[ANT7088]

Just because prospects come through the farm system, doesn't mean that the Yankees didn't outspend other teams to get them, or that their scouting department is not much larger than small market teams. Also they can afford to keep home-grown talent on the roster when other teams have to let players go for financial reasons. I'm not a Yankees hater, but to say that the system is fair is ludicrous.

What's not to understand?? With the amout of fans that come to each game 48,000/game (that's average, 55,000 for a good series) multiply that by say $20.00/person (for tickets), then multiply that by 81 home games. It's about $77 million. Now that doesn't include drinks, food, apparel, yearbooks, fun stuff (bats, balls, etc.) and most importantly parking. We all know the average person spend more then just $20.00/game, so the math is pretty easy!

The Yankees make enough money to pay there players what they want.

Then you have a team like the Red Sox which is impossible to make as much money because Fenway only has like 35,000 seats.

Ant then there's Tampa Bay & the O's who have plenty of seats, but face it, who want to watch 1 of those teams. I think they average 10-15,000 fans/game.


Bottom line, George unlike alot of other owners puts the money into the team, not only in his pockets! Just like Danny Boy!

[GSPODS]

Your math is missing so many variables your post makes no sense. First of all, ticket sales nowhere near cover the Yankees payroll. Good thing ticket sales are not the only source of revenue. Advertising revenue from the $3 Billion YES network is also revenue. There are also numerous other revenue sources. Secondly, your math does not take into account piddly things like federal tax, stadium tax, county tax, city tax, luxury tax.

George paid $10 Million for the Yankees and built the worth to $1.2 Billion. No one with any sense would argue he is an excellent businessman.

In any case, there is a markedly enormous difference between spending money and spending money wisely. George should simply sign the checks and keep his mouth shut.

Remember this:
On July 30, 1990, commissioner Fay Vincent banned Steinbrenner from baseball for life after he paid Howie Spira, a small-time gambler, $40,000 for "dirt" after Winfield sued him for failing to pay his foundation the $300,000 guaranteed in his contract.

[SkinsJock]

I just love the fact that we are now able to watch pure baseball between 2 teams - just a pleasure to have "pure" baseball and not that "manufactured" baseball that involved that bunch from NY

When I first saw this post, I was convinced that I must have made a mistake - this was posted after many drinks on South Beach, Miami and while I remain an anti NY Yankee baseball fan, in all fairness I must retract the allusion to the Yankees playing "manufactured" baseball, whatever the hell that is. My apologies for that!




However - IMO - Friday night's game and the first 8 innings of last night's game were fun playoff games and I am still glad that this post-season baseball does not include any NY hyperbole and exagerations

[GSPODS]

I just love the fact that we are now able to watch pure baseball between 2 teams - just a pleasure to have "pure" baseball and not that "manufactured" baseball that involved that bunch from NY

When I first saw this post, I was convinced that I must have made a mistake - this was posted after many drinks on South Beach, Miami and while I remain an anti NY Yankee baseball fan, in all fairness I must retract the allusion to the Yankees playing "manufactured" baseball, whatever the hell that is. My apologies for that!




However - IMO - Friday night's game and the first 8 innings of last night's game were fun playoff games and I am still glad that this post-season baseball does not include any NY hyperbole and exagerations

Why apologize? As of this moment, if any of the Yankees are playing baseball, it would be the EA Sports variety. I would call that manufactured.

[ANT7088]

Your math is missing so many variables your post makes no sense. First of all, ticket sales nowhere near cover the Yankees payroll. Good thing ticket sales are not the only source of revenue. Advertising revenue from the $3 Billion YES network is also revenue. There are also numerous other revenue sources. Secondly, your math does not take into account piddly things like federal tax, stadium tax, county tax, city tax, luxury tax.

George paid $10 Million for the Yankees and built the worth to $1.2 Billion. No one with any sense would argue he is an excellent businessman.

In any case, there is a markedly enormous difference between spending money and spending money wisely. George should simply sign the checks and keep his mouth shut.

Remember this:
On July 30, 1990, commissioner Fay Vincent banned Steinbrenner from baseball for life after he paid Howie Spira, a small-time gambler, $40,000 for "dirt" after Winfield sued him for failing to pay his foundation the $300,000 guaranteed in his contract.

Maybe you missed this?

Now that doesn't include drinks, food, apparel, yearbooks, fun stuff (bats, balls, etc.)

R U Serious??? Do you think I was going to factor in taxes????

Why don't you just post & stop trying to be the board principle??

I was making a point about the amount of money BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF FANS THAT COME TO YANKEE STADIUM.

Your acting like the taxes stopped us from doing anything!

Let me make this clear for YOU, with ALL the fans that come to the game, the Yankees can pay a $200 million dollar payroll & pay all there taxes! Understand?

I was comparing to a team like the "bottom feeding" O's that will never ba able to do that because of there fan that don't go to the game!

Maybe if you read the point the poster is trying to make instead of trying to find your own point, you'll have an easier time with things making "sense" to you?

You can talk to me again when your team has a winning record, a pitching coach & a superstar who wants to stay on the team! Poor Tejada!

[GSPODS]

I was comparing to a team like the "bottom feeding" O's that will never ba able to do that because of there fan that don't go to the game!

The point I am making is spending revenue has more to do with other sources of income than it does with selling tickets. Baseball payroll even for the Yankees would be under $50 Million from ticket sales alone.

Therefore, your post is flat out incorrect. Ticket sales are not the reason George spends more than any other team. You pointed out yourself that Boston has far less seats, yet they are second only to New York in payroll.

[ANT7088]

I was comparing to a team like the "bottom feeding" O's that will never ba able to do that because of there fan that don't go to the game!

The point I am making is spending revenue has more to do with other sources of income than it does with selling tickets. Baseball payroll even for the Yankees would be under $50 Million from ticket sales alone.

Therefore, your post is flat out incorrect. Ticket sales are not the reason George spends more than any other team. You pointed out yourself that Boston has far less seats, yet they are second only to New York in payroll.

Again I think you missed this & you read what YOU wanted to read.

I said the tickets, with the average person paying $20.00 a seat, that comes to around $77 million,

THEN I SAID:

Now that doesn't include drinks, food, apparel, yearbooks, fun stuff (bats, balls, etc.) and most importantly parking

What I was COMPARING to Boston was with only 35,000 seats it's impossible to make as much money, that's all. Fenway (I think) sells out every game, if they had more seats, that would bring in more money & they'd be able to spend some more (on whatever).

These are all round #'s, I didn't pull out the calculator or anything....

So (are you ready?) $77 million + all the money from the clothes, food, drinks, yearbooks, parking & whatever else they sell over there (minus) Luxury Tax (you know the money we have to give to the "bottom feeders" just so they'll have a team). Obviously equals over $200 million a year (payroll). Oh and I read in the NY Post (today) that George is worth $2 Billion, so he making a little profit along the way toooooooo!

If I'm "incorrect", what's your reason why the Yankees have so much money & are able to have a $200 million dollar payroll?

If you don't understand, sorry I can't help you anymore. I feel like I'm "beating on a dead horse" with this conversation!

Besides today is Redskins Day, baseball season is over for us!

[Deadskins]

Just because prospects come through the farm system, doesn't mean that the Yankees didn't outspend other teams to get them, or that their scouting department is not much larger than small market teams. Also they can afford to keep home-grown talent on the roster when other teams have to let players go for financial reasons. I'm not a Yankees hater, but to say that the system is fair is ludicrous.

What's not to understand?? With the amout of fans that come to each game 48,000/game (that's average, 55,000 for a good series) multiply that by say $20.00/person (for tickets), then multiply that by 81 home games. It's about $77 million. Now that doesn't include drinks, food, apparel, yearbooks, fun stuff (bats, balls, etc.) and most importantly parking. We all know the average person spend more then just $20.00/game, so the math is pretty easy!

The Yankees make enough money to pay there players what they want.

Then you have a team like the Red Sox which is impossible to make as much money because Fenway only has like 35,000 seats.

Ant then there's Tampa Bay & the O's who have plenty of seats, but face it, who want to watch 1 of those teams. I think they average 10-15,000 fans/game.


Bottom line, George unlike alot of other owners puts the money into the team, not only in his pockets! Just like Danny Boy!

Where do I ever say I don't understand? My point is that the Yankees dominance over the past 100 years is a direct reflection on their ability to spend more money on their team than any other team in history. Brag all you want about their success over the years, just don't fool yourself into thinking that the playing field was, or is now, level.

And then you posted this two posts later:

Maybe if you read the point the poster is trying to make instead of trying to find your own point, you'll have an easier time with things making "sense" to you?

[ANT7088]

Just because prospects come through the farm system, doesn't mean that the Yankees didn't outspend other teams to get them, or that their scouting department is not much larger than small market teams. Also they can afford to keep home-grown talent on the roster when other teams have to let players go for financial reasons. I'm not a Yankees hater, but to say that the system is fair is ludicrous.

What's not to understand?? With the amout of fans that come to each game 48,000/game (that's average, 55,000 for a good series) multiply that by say $20.00/person (for tickets), then multiply that by 81 home games. It's about $77 million. Now that doesn't include drinks, food, apparel, yearbooks, fun stuff (bats, balls, etc.) and most importantly parking. We all know the average person spend more then just $20.00/game, so the math is pretty easy!

The Yankees make enough money to pay there players what they want.

Then you have a team like the Red Sox which is impossible to make as much money because Fenway only has like 35,000 seats.

Ant then there's Tampa Bay & the O's who have plenty of seats, but face it, who want to watch 1 of those teams. I think they average 10-15,000 fans/game.


Bottom line, George unlike alot of other owners puts the money into the team, not only in his pockets! Just like Danny Boy!

Where do I ever say I don't understand? My point is that the Yankees dominance over the past 100 years is a direct reflection on their ability to spend more money on their team than any other team in history. Brag all you want about their success over the years, just don't fool yourself into thinking that the playing field was, or is now, level.

It seems that you don't understand that the fault is on the team you like & there fans. The Yankees aren't "playing on a level field" why? because threw thick & thin the fans support the team and keep going to games (even after that 1st half we had). That make it unfair? You act like we're cheating or something!

Did you watch the last regular season series Yanks vs. O's? I watched probably 150+ games this season (+ all the games I've watched my whole life), I have never heard of an away team having more fans in a Stadium then the home team did. The Yankee fans in Baltimore were amazing & made me feel embarrassed for the Orioles & there fans. How can an away team take over like that? If Baltimore fans supported there team they'd be alot better & it wouldn't be cheating!

That'll be the day when you go to Yankees Stadium or Fenway Park & hear the away teams fans cheering over the home fans, LOL!

Supporting your team isn't only watching them on TV, go to a few games, buy a hat & a jersey, do what NY Yankees fans do for there team & then maybe you'll (at least) have a winning record!

[GSPODS]

NEW YORK (Ticker) - The George Steinbrenner era is apparently all but over.

According to a report in the New York Post, the "Boss" has handed over control of the New York Yankees to his sons Hank and Hal Steinbrenner as he faces up to declining health.

George Steinbrenner, 77, was seldom seen at Yankee Stadium this season, attending only three games as his health kept him away

[welch]

- Yes, the Yankee dynasty through 1961 or '62 was built out of money. They played in a stadium that seated 66,000 in an era when gate receipts wre the prime source of a team's rvenue. When TV came along, it helped the Yankees that every away game and about half the home games were televised. I doubt many other teams came close. The Dodgers and Giants played in stadiums about half the size of Yankee Stadium.

- Since the early '60's, the Yankees have had two good stretches: 1976-1980 and '95 until now. They have won the championship six times. That's far less often than in the Ruth/DiMaggio/Mantle era

- While Fenway holds only about 35,000, the Red Sox can raise prices as high as they like (almost). Most teams are pressing cities to build them ball parks of 40- 45,000, with many luxury boxes. Cleveland seems to have three layers of luxury boxes. Steinbrenner has been pushing NYC to build a smaller stadium with losts of luxury boxes as well.

- The Yankees make a lot of money from owning their own TV network -- so does Boston, and Angelos would like to do the same.

- The Yankees also make a lot from hats, shirts, etc ... because they are so popular.

- Money, however, does not buy baseball wins these days. At most, it allows a team to (a) keep a good scouting staff, (b) sign the players they draft, (c) teach them in the minors, and, very important, re-sign their players who make the major-league team. That's how the Braves have had a winning season for about the last 17 years, and won the NL East about 16 years in a row.

- The Yankees management built a home-grown team into winners in 1996, and kept most of their players. George Steinbrenner impulsively added many expensive players since 2000 -- Giambi, Pavano, ARod, Clemens half season, others -- but that hasn't worked nearly as well as Brian Cashman's decision to stop trading away good young players.

- Will the Yankees be back in the playoffs next year? If they continue Cashman's strategy, then probably, yes. If George S does a classic George S routine, who knows? They were mediocre in the 80's and early '90s thanks to George's work.

- Money??? The Yankees sit in the biggest market. They exploit that market every way they can. If they use the money foolishly, they lose games. Same with Boston, which has a smaller market but still a rich one. The Nats also have a big market, and with skilled management, they will win a lot of games in about two or three years. Edward Bennett Williams figured out the DC market 40 years ago, and that's why the Redskins are one of the richest franchises in sports.

- The Yankees, Red Sox, Cowboys, and Redskins don't do anything that many other teams could not do.

- Sure, some cities are deadlocked small-market cities. They are minor-league cities with big-league teams because either the league got greedy for an expansion fee or the locality wanted to look bigger than they are. Can't be helped.

- The rest can compete pretty well if they really try.

[ANT7088]

Regarding Joe Torre and the Yankees, there are three numbers that demand attention.

They are 12; 4,271,083; and 942,555,000. This last number is in dollars.

World Champions

The first number is easy. Torre has been manager of the Yankees for 12 seasons, and in each of them he has managed to get the team into the post-season playoffs.

You can almost stop right there. Even with a roster full of All-Stars, getting to the post-season 12 times is remarkable.

Of course, you don't just have All-Stars. Not with the Yankees. You have All-Stars, oldsters, and head-cases, not to mention a handful of kids, upper management that is meddling at the best of times, and a press corps that is ravenous.

This leads us to the second number: 4,271,083.

That, according to Major League Baseball, is how many fans the Yankees pulled in during the 2007 regular season.

That was first in the American League's Eastern Division, first in the American League over all, and tops in the majors. Nobody else comes close.

In terms of attendance, then, the Yankees won it all in 2007. Their closest competitor, the Los Angeles Dodgers, brought in 3,857,036 fans.

You don't get more than 4 million people to come out to the ballpark if the team is playing bad baseball. In New York especially, where everything is a big deal. It's not as if a New Yorker finds himself in the Bronx one day and says, Well, here I am at 161st Street, let me stop in to the old ballpark.

Luxury Suites

That 4-million plus figure for fans happens to be the most bondy number in the lot. Perhaps the biggest risk in municipal bonds is commodity risk. The commodity involved is people. If you don't have enough of them, your town or your project or your credit rating or your bonds are in trouble.

This leads us to our last number, $942,555,000.

That's the amount of bonds the New York Industrial Development Agency sold to help build a new Yankee Stadium with 50,000 seats and 60 luxury suites. The agency sold the bonds in 2006, and the Yankees repay them with something called ``payments in lieu of taxes.'' The new stadium is slated to open in 2009.

The official statement to the bonds contains a compelling little table on page 62, showing ``tickets sold'' and ``ticket and suite revenue'' from 1997 to 2005, all Torre years.

And just look how the numbers do add up! In 1997, 2,580,839 tickets were sold; ticket and suite revenue amounted to $52.1 million. In 1999, more than 3 million tickets were sold; revenue was $80.2 million. In 2005, a little more than 4 million tickets were sold; revenue was $156.7 million. Up and up and up!

Hot Dog!

You don't bring in those kinds of numbers with a team that is losing, or that goes into a long swoon after the All-Star break and never comes back.

Going to the old ballpark is fun on its own, of course, and when the stands are empty the food vendors pay more attention to you and it is easy to get your doggie and ales. Watching your team lose again and again, however, gets old fast, as the fair- weather friends of the Florida Marlins (2007 attendance: 1,370,511), the Tampa Bay Devil Rays (1,387,603) and even the Baltimore Orioles (2,164,822) can tell you.

On page 28 of the Yankees official statement, ``Annual Debt Service Requirements'' are listed. There is a long column of numbers going out to 2047, when the last bond is scheduled to be retired, and when Joe Torre will be 107, and almost all of them are $51 million.

If I am the boys in Tampa, I am not thinking about firing Joe Torre. I am wondering how long I can get him to run the team.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home

[Deadskins]

Just out of curiosity, what were the attendance numbers BT (before Torre)?

[ANT7088]

Just out of curiosity, what were the attendance numbers BT (before Torre)?

I have no clue, I just wanted to post this for the people who thought that the $156.7 million (from 2005) in tickets & revenue wasn't being used for part of the payroll, because other people seem to think that the Yankees only make around $50 million from tickets.

[Deadskins]

Just out of curiosity, what were the attendance numbers BT (before Torre)?

I have no clue, I just wanted to post this for the people who thought that the $156.7 million (from 2005) in tickets & revenue wasn't being used for part of the payroll, because other people seem to think that the Yankees only make around $50 million from tickets.

The only reason I ask, is because the article makes a big deal about how other teams, deemed to be less successful due to lack of product on the field, don't make as much money from ticket sales. I want to know if the Yankees down years saw a significant drop in attendance, or whether the market is big enough and past success guarantees them success at the turnstiles. A perfect example of this is the Redskins continuing to sell out games, in the largest stadium in the NFL, despite having only two playoff teams since the stadium opened.

[ANT7088]

Just out of curiosity, what were the attendance numbers BT (before Torre)?

I have no clue, I just wanted to post this for the people who thought that the $156.7 million (from 2005) in tickets & revenue wasn't being used for part of the payroll, because other people seem to think that the Yankees only make around $50 million from tickets.

The only reason I ask, is because the article makes a big deal about how other teams, deemed to be less successful due to lack of product on the field, don't make as much money from ticket sales. I want to know if the Yankees down years saw a significant drop in attendance, or whether the market is big enough and past success guarantees them success at the turnstiles. A perfect example of this is the Redskins continuing to sell out games, in the largest stadium in the NFL, despite having only two playoff teams since the stadium opened.

My opinion, I wouldn't think that the attendance had much of a drop then. Just like the Redskins do, the Yankees try to put a great team on the field year in & year out. That counts for alot!

Here's our roster from 1995:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamsta ... 1995&t=NYA

Even though they didn't win it, with those players we sure thought we would, LOL!

[ANT7088]

Here ya go.....

This is up to 2003, scroll toward the bottom:

http://ultimateyankees.com/yankeestadiuminfo.html

[SkinsJock]

Get with it ANT - The fact is that no matter what the Yankees make from gate receipts the TV revenue is where the teams make their money - as Welch pointed out, in the old days the teams made most of their revenue from the gate receipts - I just wanted to point this out to you as all those posts about how many people watch the Yankees means very little to the point others were making.

Snyder has the biggest stadium in the NFL (92,000) that is "sold out" each week, and even with enormous gate receipts from everything he "sells" that amount is nothing compared to the TV revenues

[GSPODS]

After three pages it has become more than apparent that no amount of proof to the contrary is convincing enough that ticket revenues are not the primary source of income for any professional sports franchise.

Ticket sales do not pay for player salaries. Ticket sales pay for concessions and concessioneers, service staff, maintainence and upkeep of owner's luxury suites, and other expenses related to the stadium itself.

Franchises claiming to lose revenue for any particular fiscal year do not do so based upon ticket sales for that year. The New York Yankees are estimated to be worth $1.2 Billion based upon the belief that someone would pay that amount to purchase the team. Anything is only worth what someone will pay for it.

The Yankees have a $210 Million player payroll. The cost of stadium operation for one "season" is approximately $160 Million. Ticket sales of $165 Million cover the cost of stadium operation of $160 Million. Ticket sales are $50 Million short of player payroll, not including coaching staff payroll. This means even the Yankees would be operating at a loss without TV revenue. TV revenue is based upon the advertising market. New York is a top-tier advertising market.

Move the Yankees to any other market and their revenue would plummet.

[ANT7088]

Get with it ANT - The fact is that no matter what the Yankees make from gate receipts the TV revenue is where the teams make their money - as Welch pointed out, in the old days the teams made most of their revenue from the gate receipts - I just wanted to point this out to you as all those posts about how many people watch the Yankees means very little to the point others were making.

Snyder has the biggest stadium in the NFL (92,000) that is "sold out" each week, and even with enormous gate receipts from everything he "sells" that amount is nothing compared to the TV revenues

Get with what? Why don't you get a clue??

1- I never said that's ONLY where they get money, I said that's where they get alot of it! And I was making an example just comparing tickets & revenue to the other team because no other teams have there own TV network.

2- The Yes Network mades it's debut in 2002, so how'd there payroll get paid before that? You make it sound like we'd have a roster like the Orioles & Tampa Bay if we didn't have the YES Network (like I said before, "get a clue"

3- Do the math pal, Snyder could "sell-out" the stadium for 5 years straight & it still WOULD NOT equal 1 season worth of people that go to Yankees stadium. Get it? Let me explain....92000x8=736,000 per year x 5 years=3,680,000 Understand? Now the Yankees (and I'm only going to use the average people, not even sold out....48,000x81=3,888,000 that 1 year!!!!

So according to what you think with almost (over) 4 million people buying tickets & revenue PER YEAR none of that goes to payroll (because it's not enough) & we pay the payroll only from money from the Yes Network which started 5 years ago?

By the way the Yankees probably get more cars parked in there lots per season then the Redskins get fans! No offense to the Redskins of course, but "it is what it is", you're comparing 81 (games) to 8!