Lloyd Talks to Junkies About His Role

num1skinsfan · Post by **num1skinsfan** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:04 pm

I'm sorry, Brandon Loyd has had "more" that ample chances to play more, he has underachieved big time. Someone has to police the team and Gibbs did the appropriate thing. Now as time goes on and he "works hard" then I believe good things will happen for BL. But he has not earned the trust of the coaching staff....

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:08 pm

Thanks for your input Coy

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:13 pm

As they say in the investment world, past behavior (recent and a decade ago) isn't necessarily predictive of future performance.

That is certainly true... for the financial markets. However, in the world of human behavior (my world), we say, the most reliable predictor of future behavior is past behavior. This isn't the stock market.

That said, a review of posts will reveal that I am a fan of B Lloyd's, and I still think that he is something special. Frankly, I am astonished that he has not become a major part of our offense.

All I am pointing out is that, we only have part of the story. Gibbs keeps his disagreements in house, does not air laundry, and does not make negative comments about his players... even when they need their teeth kicked in. Again, there is more to this story than we know, and more than we WILL know. What may have happened behind closed doors, we just can't know.

The conjecture that Gibbs is behaving like a petulant child is nothing more than that. Conjecture. Can I say "it's not true"? No. Heck, maybe he is behaving as a petulant child... but, given the lack of facts... "Past behavior is the most reliable predictor of future behavior".

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:18 pm

Fios wrote:What!?!? What point are you trying to make? Do you bother to read what I write? Cherry picking isn't helpful, I said past performance isn't NECESSARILY predictive. I mean for god's sake, you quoted my post and still got it wrong. I've said IN THIS VERY THREAD that the lack of information from Gibbs leaves us to speculate, fairly or not. Statements like "what we have to rely on thus far" are purposeful, yet you find some definitive conclusions that I CLEARLY avoided. And, regardless of anything else, there is, in fact, a chance that Gibbs has handled this badly. I have enough time on my hands to choose my words carefully, you clearly didn't take the time to read them.

Instead of arguing about what was typed or not, or what was intended or not, it suffices to me that you make your position clearly enough now in a way that it does not lend itself to misinterpretations in a single post.

But in addition, if I misinterpreted, I take it all back. No problem.

SKINFAN · Post by **SKINFAN** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:04 pm

I for one put stock on what the player has done in the past (success or failure) to guage what he can or cannot do. Yah they can get better, but I'd want proof that he can do what people say he can do. Bloyd was pretty good in SF, it doesn't guarantee that he will do good here but at least you know up front what he can do. Now even if we are not using him RIGHT NOW, we still have him, he's sitting on the pine and available if we decide to give him a chance.. I feel better about that than say Reche Caldwell that does good and chokes when it matters most. I would still play Bloyd before Reche "bright-eyes" Caldwell. If it was up to me....

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:22 pm

BossHog wrote:Like I said, when you don't WANT to see it, you never will.

It's fine to say that we only have one side of the story, but EVERY week Joe is given an opportunity to provide a reason - he just chooses not to. And when you leave something open for interpretation - you either don't CARE if people come to wrong conclusions, or you're not handling issues to the point that they're no longer issues- either way, you're missing the boat.

Well, you may say that I'm in denial, and that may well be the case, because of Joe's previous history. But I still don't understand why you think he owes it to you, any other fan, the press, or just the general public, to air the team's dirty laundry in a press conference. Why should he care if outsiders come to the wrong conclusion? Maybe he wants Brandon's teammates to come to his defense to build camaraderie. We just don't know, and we probably never will. Is it frustrating? Definitely! Does it seem dysfunctional? Absolutely! Is it childishness or pigheadedness? I don't know, and neither do you.

SKINFAN · Post by **SKINFAN** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:26 pm

You can question Gibbs all you want but there's a good chance that in the end your gonna see why Gibbs did what he did. Kinda like when he told his players to stay out and don't cross the pickett lines. He's got his way of doing things, sometimes it's unconventional, but know this, it is always for the good of the team.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:49 pm

It's pretty amazing how much attention this whole Brandon Lloyd saga is getting. Sure it would be nice to get more of a contribution from a guy we traded 2 draft picks for and who we gave a large contract to, but I think what is getting lost in all of this is that so far in his career Lloyd has been nothing more than an average NFL receiver. In his best NFL season, Lloyd only had 48 catches and 733 yards, which was good for being 37th in the NFL in yards and 43rd in receptions, putting him behind such "superstars" as David Givens, Antonio Chatman, Travis Taylor, and Brian Finneran.

Additionally, everyone is piling up on Gibbs for this situation, but there is clearly fault on both sides here. Lloyd admittedly dogged it after the int against Miami, so Lloyd deserves his fair share of criticism. I'm not sure if this is contributing to how Gibbs is treating Lloyd, but one thing that has surprised me about Lloyd is his unwillingness to say that he has messed up. After his outburst last season against Atlanta, Lloyd never really apologized and didn't sound too contrite about it. This is what he said...

"I never regret anything I've ever done," Lloyd said after meeting with Gibbs. "I've made some pretty good decisions in my time, and nothing so bad that I would regret it. It happened, and I've got to own up to it and move on.

"I've had this personality since I was, like, 5 years old, and I never thought it was a problem," Lloyd said. "If I thought it was a problem, I would have changed it 20 years ago."

And listening to the Junkies interview, Lloyd acknowledged that he didn't give full effort after the int but didn't say that he regretted what happened. If this is the type of attitude that he has shown behind closed doors with his team and Gibbs, then I'm not surprised that he is still in the dog house.

And in his time here it's not like Gibbs is the only person on the team that Lloyd has had trouble with. CP had issues with Lloyd last season and while he didn't refer to Lloyd by name, Campbell seemed less than thrilled with Lloyd after the Dolphins game. So I'm sure that all of these things are at issue in this situation. I highly doubt that it is just the one play against Miami that has landed Lloyd in the dog house. There have been other incidents and even a team mate (Portis) seemed to suggest that Lloyd needs to do better in practice.

So yes this is a problem and yes both sides are to blame, but it's a little ridiculous to just claim that Gibbs is being pigheaded and that this is mostly his fault. Lloyd, by his behavior, got himself into this situation so I can't say that I really have any sympathy for the guy. Hopefully this situation can get worked out and Lloyd can contribute more, but if he spends the rest of the season on the sidelines I'm not too worried about the impact that that would have on our passing game.

hermitkid · Post by **hermitkid** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:01 pm

Even assuming that this is a personal issue between Gibbs and Lloyd, I'm more willing to give Gibbs the benefit of the doubt than some wannabe rapper that's been known as a distraction at his previous stint with the 49ers.

Back then we were quick to dismiss this with a player being upset with the constant losing, but ask yourself, what kind of selfish jerk complains about the losing rather than trying to be part of the solution?

Lloyd just strikes me as the type of guy that isn't accountable and how exactly are you going to coach somebody that has the attitude that nothing is his fault?

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:40 pm

I think 'most' here are making some valid points.

I'll just add this, and I seriously doubt anyone would disagree with it...

If I'm the coach of a sports teams, and I've personally witnessed a player 'loaf' in practice, and especially in a game, to the point that it can be considered to be a detriment to the team as a whole, and said player acts as though he's done nothing wrong or it's no big deal, makes no effort to redeem himself... ... ... I don't care how much money said player is making, that guy is going to remain on the bench. I don't care how nice of a guy he is, or how much he's liked by his teammates, the coach is ultimately responsible for what happens on the field. I don't pretend to have all the facts, but like a few others, I would tend to give Gibbs and the coaching staff the benefit of the doubt.

Lloyd admitted he loafed and I seriously doubt it was the first time. And if he exudes an attitude of not caring rather than contrition, then he belongs in the doghouse. That's not the type of character I'd want in the locker room.

No one person is larger than the organization itself. No offense, but a lack of contrition in a team sport clearly indicates to me where the pigheadedness stems from. If my employer tells me I screwed up, whether I think I'm right or wrong, I'm going to do everything possible to remedy the situation. That's the professional thing to do.

That said, I'm all about 2nd chances in life. I genuinely hope everyone can work this out and Brandon becomes a solid contributor.

Edit - like I said in a previous post, maybe last week is the first step made by those involved to right the ship and move forward.

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:42 pm

hermitkid wrote:Even assuming that this is a personal issue between Gibbs and Lloyd, I'm more willing to give Gibbs the benefit of the doubt than some wannabe rapper that's been known as a distraction at his previous stint with the 49ers.

Back then we were quick to dismiss this with a player being upset with the constant losing, but ask yourself, what kind of selfish jerk complains about the losing rather than trying to be part of the solution?

Lloyd just strikes me as the type of guy that isn't accountable and how exactly are you going to coach somebody that has the attitude that nothing is his fault?

Sigh ... I so love it when people skip all of the relevant information and back-and-forth in a healthy argument so they can rush to the end and add nothing. Also, hermitkid, your post has been edited since profanity is not permitted in this forum.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:08 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:That said, I'm all about 2nd chances in life. I genuinely hope everyone can work this out and Brandon becomes a solid contributor.

Edit - like I said in a previous post, maybe last week is the first step made by those involved to right the ship and move forward.

I am with you bro.

Joe Gibbs is not a vindictive person. He is a fair man, always has been. I have no doubt that he will give chances to Brandon, not as quickly and abundantly as some may wish but he will. It will be up to Brandon to act on those chances and he will be a better person and player for it.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:28 am

This is a week where we need him on the field and not James Thrash our our #3 WR....

The slot WR is going to be the difference maker and I can't see many slot WR's being able to handle Brandon.

SKINFAN · Post by **SKINFAN** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:13 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:This is a week where we need him on the field and not James Thrash our our #3 WR....

The slot WR is going to be the difference maker and I can't see many slot WR's being able to handle Brandon.

Mostly coz there's no studying him, no-one has film on this guy. Which is why he's our "secret Weapon". Like an overhand right that you throw when you get tagged with a left hook, they'll never see it coming.

GSPODS · Post by **GSPODS** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:15 pm

SKINFAN wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:This is a week where we need him on the field and not James Thrash our our #3 WR....

The slot WR is going to be the difference maker and I can't see many slot WR's being able to handle Brandon.

Mostly coz there's no studying him, no-one has film on this guy. Which is why he's our "secret Weapon". Like an overhand right that you throw when you get tagged with a left hook, they'll never see it coming.

I don't think it takes much film to figure out that a safety or a linebacker will have trouble covering a speed receiver. My 2 cents

SKINFAN · Post by **SKINFAN** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:17 pm

ah, but just how speedy is he? Does he tend to cut in, or out? single or double? What are his tendencies in a given situation so you know from to give help.

GSPODS · Post by **GSPODS** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:24 pm

SKINFAN wrote:ah, but just how speedy is he? Does he tend to cut in, or out? single or double? What are his tendencies in a given situation so you know from to give help.

Tendencies don't make much difference unless you happen to be in a Cover 0 defense. Not many teams play a straight man defense so the objective is fairly simple.

Receiver - find the hole in the zone.
Defender - beat the receiver to the spot.

Zone defenses are a foot race between the receiver and the defender to the "hole" in the zone, and the defender has to cover a lot more area than the receiver does.

Man defense is simply a footrace. Either way, with the Redskins receivers I think they win this matchup.

SKINFAN · Post by **SKINFAN** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:54 am

WHat you say is true, but I still say it helps if noone has seen him play. I've seen so many Farve specials over the weekend, and man does he know his recievers, he looks down and he sees his man covered, depending on where the CB is, he will throw it over shoulder high or inside low, him and driver has got this thing where in any given situ, he knows what Driver's gonna do.... "tendency"...
that's all, I'm not saying it makes a game breaking difference, I'm just saying it could give the advantage to the reciever in catching the ball. And we all know Bloyd can twist and do somersaults in air while going up for a pass.