A little friday debate.... read and respond

[TopHawg]

You missed my ponit entirely joe. This is THEIR country, not ours.

Not true. Amerca stole this land fair and square. Just like they stole the islands from Hawaii but no-one says the Islands belong to the Hawaiians which is why white's and the Japanese own it all. Do you see us complaining, no. Why? Because if we weren't part of America we would be part of some other country that's not america because our land is valuable and we'd rather be part of America than someone else. The same is true for Native America except they complain alot more.

[BringThePain!]

My great grand-daddy's, pap-pee's, sissy's hubby was a Buccaneer....that makes me something like 1/28th Buccaneer...

AND I DON'T LOOK LIKE THIS!!!!!



I'm petitioning that they change there mascot...

WHO'S WITH ME!??!?!!

[joebagadonuts]

okay, i see your point champsturf, and agree that the intentions amy have been honorable at the time (we're talking 1932 here). back then, maybe redskin was a complimentary way of describing native americans. just like negro was in the 60's. but you can't change team names as often as society changes what is acceptable. and i fully agree that there does not appear to be any disrespect whatsoever on the part of the redskin organization or fans. in fact, all i've seen would point to the contrary. it just seemed in your post that you were arguing that a derogatory team name could inspire people to educate themselves about a culture. i apologize if i came off as angry, but this stuff tends to get my panties in a bunch, so to speak.

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

SIDENOTE: Is there any truth to the rumor I heard two seasons ago that the real reason behind the "70th Anniversary" was that the Danny was fighting to keep his trademark registered?? I heard this somewhere, and it made sense. A little help, please??


Oh yeah, the name must stay.

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

Plus, if you change the name, you have to consider changing the whole darn thing, considering doesn't even play in Washington. I'm a Marylander, and I dislike the fact that my "home team" is the Ravens, since the Landover-based Skins are from "Washington".

Just something to think about. Can you note the sarcasm?

[Redskins1974]

Not true. Amerca stole this land fair and square. Just like they stole the islands from Hawaii but no-one says the Islands belong to the Hawaiians which is why white's and the Japanese own it all. Do you see us complaining, no. Why? Because if we weren't part of America we would be part of some other country that's not america because our land is valuable and we'd rather be part of America than someone else. The same is true for Native America except they complain alot more.

Dude, you can't be serious. You obviously know nothing about history (and I'm for keeping the 'skins name as is)...I hope you were being sarcastic.

[frankcal20]

Lets hope he/she is kidding. I mean that would be the most outragious, blinded viewpoint i have ever hear. And I grew up in North Carolina.

[tcwest10]

I am not one to concern myself with matters that do not impact me or my family directly. It is of no one's concern what my ethnicity is, so I won't state it here. I am hopefully judged by what I write and what my views are, and categorized accordingly. As such, I judge and categorize each and every one of you in the same way. It's colorless, but for the B&G.
What you look like and where you're from has no place in Football. If some deem our insignia to be an offensive caricature, no amount of pleading to the contrary will change their view. They won't suddenly look at it from another view and say, "Yeah, I can see how this honors my descendants. You're right."
It was meant to signify a "brave on the warpath", not to demean. People are people though, and people have their opinions.
Don't make me get cute and say, "Opinions are like..."

[frankcal20]

I agree TC. I wouldnt want anyone getting offended by anything that I love but I think really in this case it isnt anything to be feel belittled about. Teams choose mascots because of strength. Do you ever see a team have a mascot called the Fairy's or the Wimps. Teams take on mascots that show pride, strength and determination. There are some teams that no one can make sense of. (ex: stanford, whats the tree all about.)

[Amberion]

(ex: stanford, whats the tree all about.)

frankcal - havent you read Lord of the Rings (or seen the movies)

Those Ents are strong enough to crack stone

Back on topic - I am not a native american and therefore dont profess to know how insulting the name Redskins is. I think you have to be on the receiving end of this your whole life to really know

That said I dont want them to change the name of my favourite team, but I will respect their right to their opinions. Is not US supposed to be the land of free speech so I say they should be allowed to debate this if they feel offended

[tcwest10]

Amberion, I both read the books and saw the first two films. Also saw the animated version many years ago. Aside from the very, very cool Smeagol/Gollum from the films, I'm gonna say the books were the best in my opinion.
Of course, there are those who will say that the new generation hasn't the time to read the books, and so the films were better. Don't forget the seventies folks whose introduction to the genre was the animated "Hobbits" specials that came on tv back then. That is the standard-bearer for them, and it is hard to overcome a childhood preference in adulthood.
You see ? Everybody is going to have their own favorite version. Some will say the film shorts the fullness of the characters established in print many years before, assuming the world already knows the backgrounds.
Others...blah, blah, blah.
And, oh yes. "Ents" are amazingly strong. I'm sure that isn't debated anywhere.

[skinsfaninroanoke]

I have several friends who are native American and are die hard Redskin fans - what more do I need say?

[Steve Spurrier III]

I had a teacher who was a Lakota Indian and a war hero, and without a doubt, he is one of the most amazing people I have ever met. He said he had been called dozens of times by other Native Americans who tried to get him to come protest the name "Redskins" outside the stadium. He said the name does not offend him one bit, and those people who called him were just angling for money. I will never know how offensive it really is to Native Americans, but from my perspective, I really don't see anything wrong with it...

[Redskin006]

The majority of Native Americans that I know are not offended by the name Redskins. It was never intended to be a racial slur of any type. Look at other teams, the cowboys for example, i have never heard any people say that calling a team the cowboys was degrading to cowboys. . .

[Steve Spurrier III]

I don't know, if I was a cowboy I'd be mad after those three straight 5-11 seasons...

[frankcal20]

I just got off the phone with a fellow 'skins fan who is native american and told him about this forum. His response was and i quote, "i'm not going to waiste my time discussing this, as you can see i'm still a redskin fan and always will be so i hope that these people get off their high horse and shut the he!! up." Well, thats enough reassurance for me.

[Champsturf]

sounds like what i first said....sit down and shut up

[Pudgeman37]

In technical terms among Indians, Redskins is a racist term. But, think about it, you think Washington gave that name, they should blame Boston and the pilgrims up north (I know, 1930s). However, here's an interesting thought. I think the Redskins had a racist meaning, but when years past by, people only thought of Redskins as in Washington. If you read the book by Kennedy's "N*****" he mention the n-word has evolved in the past years because of hip-hop. Now, I disagree about Kennedy's term because his book has arrongance all over it, but he did raise a good question about meaning. No hip-hop star would know the actual definition of the N-Word is. This is probably the same example for Redskins. I think the Redskins should keep its name, The logos are fine since they show warrior spirit, but chief wahoo has to go.

Tracy

[SoCalSkinFan]

i would be very $^*%$*@)(*$#& off if the small minority gets there way and changes the name. if i remember right, wasn't the a judgement of something that ruled that the Skins did not have to change their name. i am getting soooooooooooooooooooooo sick and tired that the minoity is telling the majoity what to do in this county:ie gay marriage, god in the pledge. you know that they will get some sensitive judge to rule on this and the judge will force the Skins in changing theur name. that is how the liberal minority does it. they do not go to the public. they have a judge do their work because they know that most of the population is against their agenda.

[skinsfaninroanoke]

A couple of historical facts -

The Skins started as the Boston Braves.

It was renamed the Redskins in HONOR of their coach of the time William "Lone Star" Dietz who was an American Indian.

It was originally named the Boston Braves after the city's failed baseball franchise.
They moved to Fenway and changed the name to the Redskins.

They moved the 1936 championship game to the Polo Grounds in NY due to poor fan attendance and changed permanently in 1937 when they moved to Washington.

[DEHog]

We really hammered this one around a few months ago. I know Burgundyand Gold has some strong feeling about the term Redskin. I for one am not offended, but that doesn't mean it's not offensive. i understand why some may be. I don't understand how one can be a fan of something that offends them?? I would not drop a dime into anytihing that offened me.

We need to be carful about a name change...I personally know more people who are offended by the name Wizards than were ever offended by the name Bullets!

[hailskins666]

We really hammered this one around a few months ago. I know Burgundyand Gold has some strong feeling about the term Redskin. I for one am not offended, but that doesn't mean it's not offensive. i understand why some may be. I don't understand how one can be a fan of something that offends them?? I would not drop a dime into anytihing that offened me.

We need to be carful about a name change...I personally know more people who are offended by the name Wizards than were ever offended by the name Bullets!

i was in the middle of arguing with LRB&G in that thread, and we both agreed to disagree.....

i'd hate to see a name change.

[patrickg68]

As much as I hate the redskins, I think I hate the politically correct goons even more. I like George Carlin's idea for team names. Call the Fighting Irish the "short dicked, thick skulled, brawling irish," and create teams called the "Bargaining Jews" and the "Murdering Italians."

[hailskins666]

carlin is great.

[CHAZZ777]

[i was going to stay out of this argument, because, 'bleeding heart liberal' or not, i don't think it's my place (white american male) to decide what's offensive to another culture. but this is a most ridiculous argument. that's like saying that calling a team 'The Negroes' (or worse) would promote education of black history in this country. and you could further argue that 'The Negroes' only represent the honorable and glorious struggle that blacks have fought against racism. i don't buy it. 'redskin' is a racial slur, and that's a fact. it places the emphasis on the color of someone's skin. that may not be important. what's important is whether enough people find it offensive to change it. that, obviously, hasn't happened.

can anyone honestly tell me that if a new team were started called the 'Blackskins' that there would not be outrage from all corners of the country? and that the name would not be changed? i doubt it.[/quote]


I am sitting here reading through the post wondering if anyone who LOVES our team would recognize the offence and like I have ignore it for the LOVE of the team.... I thank you for your truth