"I just want to get this behind me!"

welch · Post by **welch** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:59 pm

I move to ban this phrase, especially from the cliches (see "Bull Durham") of profesional athletes.

It is:

(a) weightless

(b) a dodge

(c) means "let's forget about what I did"

Can I use that as a defense if I choose not to pay taxes this year? Anybody think the IRS will agree?

Brought to mind by Michael Vick (see Justice Hog's thread, at
http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24219).

It usually links with a defense that "I did it because I was addicted to drugs or alcohol, but now I'm in rehab". (Too many examples to name, but the fattest target is, of course, Rush Limbaugh, followed very closely by that Florida congressman with an affection for Congressional page boys and for speeches about "morality". And so many others...If your're feeling party-sensitive, there was the old-time Southern Democat powerhouse caught frolicing naked and drunk in in a congressional fountain with a well-know prostitute, Fan <Somebody> )

The line usually goes:

- I did it because of alochol abuse...so it wasn't really me

- I'm in rehab

- I've now found Jesus Christ as my personal lord and saviour so forget everything before yesterday (Me, I'm a stubborn Methodist, so his one feels like a greater insult)

- Can't I just put this behind me?

The Vick trick.

Hey, why doesn't he volunteer for the US Army or Marines when he finishes his term? I don't know if he would pass the morals and intelligence tests, but if Patt Tillman could make a serious committment to the country, why can't Vick?

As for the NFL...no. No. Never.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:22 pm

I don't know if he would pass the morals and intelligence tests, but if Patt Tillman could make a serious committment to the country, why can't Vick?

The military, especially the Marines and Army, are bigger team "games" than the NFL ever dreamed of being. There is no "me" in either of them... Vick need not apply.

welch · Post by **welch** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:56 am

CT wrote

The military, especially the Marines and Army, are bigger team "games" than the NFL ever dreamed of being. There is no "me" in either of them... Vick need not apply.

I'm thinking here of my son, who volunteered after 9/11 because he wanted to do something for the country...not just himself. He worried about basic training for the first two or three weeks, when about 1/3 of his platoon wiggled out, but what kept him going -- why he likes the Army, in spite of silly bureaucratic rules -- comes, I think, from the teamwork, mutual support. A team-game with 500,000 regulars and almost as many Guard/Reserve, and many Marines.

Even though basic training was tough (his battalion commander: "We make it tough because you will be put in tough situations, and this is the best way we know to prepare you".)...even so, the spirit seemed to be that the platoon wanted everyone to make it. The recruits did not much respect the guy who could do the most single-armed push-ups. Instead, they all admired an awkward kid from Texas A&M, someone who had hoped to become an Air Force pilot but who had poor eyesite. The Aggie gave advice on the tricky courses, enouraged everyone to think about the last person to crawl though the obstacle course...all that. Everyone (except the superior push-up guy) learned to emulate the Aggie.

They came out of training believing in "an army of one", and loyalty to each other.

It was a drastic contrast to school, where everyone competes for the highest grades, and too many teachers just ignore students they think are "losers".

I think my son learned more in Army (and cross-branch) schools than he did in high school, where it was always "test for this" and "compete for that", and "whoever got the highest score and will go to the fanciest college".

Back to Vick. I don't think he would make it in the military. If he did, he would have to change his personality...become a better citizen. Maybe he would be better off following all the volunteers than whining to get back into pro-football.

I agree, CT. The odds are that Michael Vick wouldn't make it. But if he did, he might be a better peron without ever playing in the NFL again.

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:14 pm

When I was at Marine Boot Camp, Riddick Bowe decided he wanted to be a Marine. We were all warned about the hoopla that would surround such an event. He didn't even make it to the training. He couldn't last through the first day, where you roll in at 2 or 3 am and then fill out paper work and pick up uniforms and supplies and don't sleep for basically two days. Vick wouldn't make it on the bus, IMHO. They yell at you a bit in the airport.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:44 am

Please don't put Vick and the U.S. Military in the same sentence...he doesn't have the heart for it and your insulting our service members.

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:09 am

VetSkinsFan wrote:your insulting our service members.

Huh?

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:26 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:Please don't put Vick and the U.S. Military in the same sentence...he doesn't have the heart for it and your insulting our service members.

Did you read anything in this thread?

By the way, having spent 32 years in the military, I think I have earned the right to make any comparisons I wish...

Welch is a Blue Star dad (as am I)... and he can speak with credibility from that perspective, as well.

Both of us have said the same thing as you... but neither of us will seek your approval to say it.

I won't accept that anything either of us have said is "insulting" to our troops.

:roll:

Mursilis · Post by **Mursilis** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:30 pm

Countertrey wrote:Welch is a Blue Star dad (as am I).

Haven't seen that term before, although I've heard of Gold Star mothers (women who lose children in the service). I'm guessing Blue Star dads are fathers with children in service - correct?
Oh, and =D>

to your sons, and all who served.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:52 pm

I served in the US Army so I'm not anti-military. But why in the heck would Mike Vick join up if according to every poll, just about 75 percent of the people here hate his guts?

Just a question.

Also who are we to judge someone finding God? Maybe people facing over a year in a place like this have a reason to get on their knees and pray.

Its easy to keep dumping on Mike Vick. What he did was reprehensible, but he's lost his career, freedom, reputation, and millions of dollars. Can't he at least find religion? Or is that to much to ask.

As for playing in the NFL again, I don't know what these Joe American's do for a living, however, be reasonable. A felony conviction would probably lead to you being fired, but it wouldn't lead to you never being able to work again at your craft. If an employer does a background check and will still give you a job, whats the problem? It's the team that choses to take a chance on him that has the problem to deal with, not us.

welch · Post by **welch** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:42 am

Hogster wrote

ts easy to keep dumping on Mike Vick. What he did was reprehensible, but he's lost his career, freedom, reputation, and millions of dollars. Can't he at least find religion? Or is that to much to ask.

Sure, he can find religion.

I've noticed that every celebrity who gets caught doing something wrong immediately announces "I have an alcohol problem. I'm in rehab. I've found God".

It seems false. (And in Vick's case, I didn't know that he would announce his conversion. I'ts just part of the "script".)

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:57 am

welch wrote:Hogster wrote
ts easy to keep dumping on Mike Vick. What he did was reprehensible, but he's lost his career, freedom, reputation, and millions of dollars. Can't he at least find religion? Or is that to much to ask.

Sure, he can find religion.

I've noticed that every celebrity who gets caught doing something wrong immediately announces "I have an alcohol problem. I'm in rehab. I've found God".

It seems false. (And in Vick's case, I didn't know that he would announce his conversion. I'ts just part of the "script".)

I'm sure that Vick has hired the best publicist availible, who has rehearsed him ad nauseum on all the right things to say... "make sure you place your new relationship with Jesus (wink, wink) in a prominent spot... "

On the other hand, what if this was just Vick's dyslexia raising it's head... perhaps he meant to say "I've found DOG"

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:50 pm

welch wrote:Hogster wrote
ts easy to keep dumping on Mike Vick. What he did was reprehensible, but he's lost his career, freedom, reputation, and millions of dollars. Can't he at least find religion? Or is that to much to ask.

Sure, he can find religion.

I've noticed that every celebrity who gets caught doing something wrong immediately announces "I have an alcohol problem. I'm in rehab. I've found God".

It seems false. (And in Vick's case, I didn't know that he would announce his conversion. I'ts just part of the "script".)

Isn't part of Christianity that in horrible times, you can turn to Jesus to get you through? I am not the biggest fan of "rehab" or "finding Jesus", however, I don't think its irrational to do a lot of praying when you're about to go to the big house. Unless any of us have actually been in prison, its hard to say what you would do when you were REALLY facing the prospect of sitting in an 8 x9 every day with another felon.

I just think that people are going waaay too far on the dude...and for what. In America, the punishment should fit the crime. In this case, the guy has lost his career, freedom, respect, fans, and any sort of reputation in the mainstream community. The average person in America would have gotten a misdemeanor for the same crime. Don't you think that's enough for dogfighting?

If you committed the same crime, you may lose your job, maybe pay a fine....but 75 percent of the country would not be holding signs saying "Castrate Welch" or "Hang Welch"....its just pretty ridiculous how worked up people are "acting" like they are all upset.

Who is going to march at the SPCA when the dogs get seized from his property get eutanized next week? Nobody. I just find it dissapointing how people don't realize how PETA and all these other groups are just capitalizing on a famous person's case for their interest. And typically, Americans fall in line.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:41 pm

The Hogster wrote:As for playing in the NFL again, I don't know what these Joe American's do for a living, however, be reasonable. A felony conviction would probably lead to you being fired, but it wouldn't lead to you never being able to work again at your craft. If an employer does a background check and will still give you a job, whats the problem? It's the team that choses to take a chance on him that has the problem to deal with, not us.

The NFL isn't any other employer and when the felony has anything to do with gambling, he's going to have problems getting re-instated. Not saying he won't but it'll be hard. Regardless of how much time he does in the pen he'll still owe Goodell at least a year. What kind of shape will he be in to go along with his felony conviction for what is basically organized crime 3 years from now?

That photo of the cell in Alcatraz (didn't they close that place?) doesn't give much room for him to work out

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:42 pm

The average person in America would have gotten a misdemeanor for the same crime.

You keep repeating this theme... Would the "average person" in America really purchase a prime home on a large, multi-acre wooded lot, and then bankroll it's use as a haven for feloneous activity?

What an interesting world you live in.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:55 pm

A felony conviction would probably lead to you being fired, but it wouldn't lead to you never being able to work again at your craft.

If I am convicted of most felonies, I lose my professional license to practice. I would never... that is NEVER... be able to work in my profession again. I have no problem with that. Doing what I do, I should be held to a higher standard of conduct.

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:12 pm

Countertrey wrote:
A felony conviction would probably lead to you being fired, but it wouldn't lead to you never being able to work again at your craft.

If I am convicted of most felonies, I lose my professional license to practice. I would never... that is NEVER... be able to work in my profession again. I have no problem with that. Doing what I do, I should be held to a higher standard of conduct.

Doesn't explain why my fries are cold :twisted:

Mursilis · Post by **Mursilis** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:40 pm

Countertrey wrote:
A felony conviction would probably lead to you being fired, but it wouldn't lead to you never being able to work again at your craft.

If I am convicted of most felonies, I lose my professional license to practice. I would never... that is NEVER... be able to work in my profession again. I have no problem with that. Doing what I do, I should be held to a higher standard of conduct.

Just curious, what profession are you talking about?

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:03 pm

Mursilis wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
A felony conviction would probably lead to you being fired, but it wouldn't lead to you never being able to work again at your craft.

If I am convicted of most felonies, I lose my professional license to practice. I would never... that is NEVER... be able to work in my profession again. I have no problem with that. Doing what I do, I should be held to a higher standard of conduct.

Just curious, what profession are you talking about?

I am currently a Registered Nurse.
I was also an officer in the Military for 20 of my 32 years in the service. A felony conviction would have cost me that, as well.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:05 pm

Fios wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
A felony conviction would probably lead to you being fired, but it wouldn't lead to you never being able to work again at your craft.

If I am convicted of most felonies, I lose my professional license to practice. I would never... that is NEVER... be able to work in my profession again. I have no problem with that. Doing what I do, I should be held to a higher standard of conduct.

Doesn't explain why my fries are cold

I thought you had a "personal" relationship with Frylock... why don't you talk to him?

welch · Post by **welch** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:02 pm

- a felony conviction will get you fired from most jobs. Consider how many job applications ask if you've ever been convicted of a felony.

- In Vick's case, setting dogs on each other for the pleasure of watching their pain is a level of evil somewhere above child abuse, but not far. "Possible sociopath" comes to mind.

- If he has turned to religion, then that's good, but it is not a defense. What strikes me is that (OK, this is the last time I'll say it) so many big-names defend themselves by saying "I have an alcohol problem, and I'm now in rehab, and I've found God". I've probably forgotten a few defenses...oh, right, "I'm taking anger management classes"...

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:49 pm

The Hogster wrote:

Wow they get that much room! You would have 3-6 surface ship Sailors or 5-10 submariners living in a room that big! That is as big as an officer's stateroom.

Go Navy, Semper Fi, (and whatever catch phrases the Army and Air Force use - not being disrespectful, I just don't know them!)

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:36 am

Countertrey wrote:
The average person in America would have gotten a misdemeanor for the same crime.

You keep repeating this theme... Would the "average person" in America really purchase a prime home on a large, multi-acre wooded lot, and then bankroll it's use as a haven for feloneous activity?

What an interesting world you live in.

So what? This has nothing to do with whether or not he can find religion, or anything else for that matter. The crime is the crime, whether committed in a back alley or a mansion.

I really wonder what kind of "world" you live in. Then again, nah i don't.