VA crazy fees

[BnGhog]

For those who don't live in VA and may drive through, you want to make sure you dont get any tickets. Below is parts of an article in a local paper."Showcase"

For Driveing 15 miles over the speed limit, you can be assessed as much as $3550 and up to one year in jail. Part of the fine includes a mandatory $1050 tax and 6 driving points. If your conviction leaves the driver with 8 or more points, an additional fee of $100 plus $75 for each point over 8,PER YEAR so long as the driver has 8 or more points. Considering that coming to a rolling stop at a stop sign earns 3 points that stay on your record for 3 years, these anuall fees could be enormous and never ending for some.

In one glaring example of the abusiveness of these new laws, a driver who fails to stop at a weigh station when instructed faced $35 fine and $61 court costs. The new law, the driver would be assessed an additional $900 over 3 year. That's a 2500% increase in the penalty, not to mention any additional fines for points. The fees will net the state between $65 and $120 million.

Some of the fees....

Driving on a suspended license: $250 upon conviction and $250 due 14 months after, AND $250 due 26 months after.

Reckless driving: $350 upon conviction and $350 due 14 months after, AND $350 due 26 months after.

DUI: $750 upon conviction and $750 due 14 months after, AND $750 due 26 months after.

All, plus additional fines for points once over 8. These fees could be up to $700 PER YEAR, depending on the number of points.

Cost of car registration is increased by $10 a year.

The tax on diesel fuel is boosted by 1.5 cents per gallon.

Children younger than 8 have to be in a booster seat unless they are 4'9". $50 fine. NOTE: According to the U.S. Center for Disease Control, 4'9" is the average height for an 11 year old boy.

Driving on bald tires could cost you up to $900.

Approved Localities Statewide can monitor intersections with robotic cameras that photograph people running stop lights...Side NOTE: Instead of saving lives, however, the VDOT found in 2005 that the state's original camera program caused an increase in number of injury crashes of up to 24%. The total number of crashes also increased by 17% at the intersections monitored by traffic cameras.

So, Do you really think they are after saving lives or after the money???


Pros I see...
Make drivers think twice..
Raises money...
Saves Lives(questionable on some cases)

Cons I see..
Clog the courthouses because people will fight charges more...
Hardship on people owing fines, for longer than just one time fees..
Will police chases increase???
Maybe cause accidents and road rage...

[frankcal20]

I'm not driving in Va. Thank god for Metro.

[Irn-Bru]

see my sig. . .

[Redskins Rule]

All that stuff is true! But if you think getting caught speeding in Virginia is bad.....................if you wreck your car in virginia and its your fault. Just stand by, you're about to become one MISERABLE dude!

[Countertrey]

BnGhog
Hog


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 438
Location: Danville VA
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject: VA crazy fees

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For those who don't live in VA and may drive through, you want to make sure you dont get any tickets.

Hey... you live in VA... Don't you vote?

[ChocolateMilk]

yeah i heard about these.. they are definently after the money. i mean this state is so strict on the laws they have and most of the laws are just retarded.. i mean if you are under the age of 18 why cant you be on the phone? i mean what is the difference between a 16 or 17 year old talking on a phone and a 25 year old? and how can they even tell the difference? i have a friend whos 27 but looks 15.

[Gibbs' Hog]

I live in MD. A relative of mine that lives in VA told me that this crazy fine system only applies to residents of VA...

ok, I've found the proof - out-of-staters don't have to worry as much (for now anyway):

One twist that has Virginia drivers enraged is that the state can't charge fees on out-of-state drivers or revoke their licenses. For now, the fees apply only to residents.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/Advice/VirginiasNewSpeedingTicket.aspx

[trey53]

Also of note the primary delegate responsible for the new laws, Dave Albo, happens to be a lawyer. Guess what laws his office specialize in...traffic laws. Conflict of interest anyone?

[Steve Spurrier III]

i mean what is the difference between a 16 or 17 year old talking on a phone and a 25 year old?

Other than that 16 and 17 year-olds are significantly worse drivers than 25 year-olds?

I don't really mind the fees in principle (they only punish irresponsible drivers), but they aren't supported by basic economics. What ends up happening is that the poorer people can't pay the high fines and lose their license altogether. Instead of increasing revenue, the result is a higher number of unlicensed drivers.

Also, I'm pretty sure the fines only apply to in-state drivers, which is complete baloney - and may even be illegal. In the ends, it was just a terrible decision all the way around, and I wouldn't be surprised if it gets overturned soon.

[Countertrey]

I don't really mind the fees in principle (they only punish irresponsible drivers)

That is a load of crap. The fines now make it profitable to stop and ticket those doing 5 over. There are many towns and small city PD's (pushed by their respective town governments) to increase petty traffic enforcement.

It will happen. Just watch.

[Steve Spurrier III]

That is a load of crap. The fines now make it profitable to stop and ticket those doing 5 over.

Please. There aren't enough hours in the day to pull over everyone who is doing 20 over. And even if they did start ticketing everyone doing five over, everyone always has the option of actually obeying traffic laws. God knows there are worse ways to generate revenue.

But like I said, the economics just aren't there. It's a truly stupid idea, made even stupider by the fact that other states have already tried programs like this and watched them fail miserably. It would be like a football team signing some loser wide receiver who had just been discarded by two other teams in the last two seasons. That's right, a Todd Pinkston reference.

[Irn-Bru]

That's right, a Todd Pinkston reference.

[Gibbs' Hog]

Please. There aren't enough hours in the day to pull over everyone who is doing 20 over.

There are for VA Staties... driving through that state is no joke!

And for those that live in MD, I think we might have it a little easier. I can't seem to find a source yet, but I remember reading about a year or two ago that MD police are some of the easiest-going in terms of handing out speeding tickets. Yeah, we've all gotten tickets at one point or another, but I've definitely driven 80 mph down 270 (55 mph zone) right past some speed traps (granted, the rest of the traffic was doing the same speed) and not had a problem. In fact, I wait for someone to get pulled over about every single day when I see an officer sitting behind someone going at least 75 mph - only to see that person change lanes and the officer just zooms right past 'em.

[JansenFan]

Please. There aren't enough hours in the day to pull over everyone who is doing 20 over.

There are for VA Staties... driving through that state is no joke!

And for those that live in MD, I think we might have it a little easier. I can't seem to find a source yet, but I remember reading about a year or two ago that MD police are some of the easiest-going in terms of handing out speeding tickets. Yeah, we've all gotten tickets at one point or another, but I've definitely driven 80 mph down 270 (55 mph zone) right past some speed traps (granted, the rest of the traffic was doing the same speed) and not had a problem. In fact, I wait for someone to get pulled over about every single day when I see an officer sitting behind someone going at least 75 mph - only to see that person change lanes and the officer just zooms right past 'em.

Unless you're from out of state. A few years back, I read a story that said my hometown Calvert County led the COUNTRY in out of state drivers ticketed.

[Gibbs' Hog]

Wow, JF. Guess they don't like the tourists!

Well, about 20 min. after I left the last post, I went to a doctor's appointment - heading up 270 about 80 mph - and wouldn't ya know it, I see a county po po in my rear view. There was another guy next to me doing about 3 - 5 mph faster, and I'm watching him thinking, ironically enough, "watch this guy get caught..." Sure enough, as usual, the guy slows to about 75, moves over, and the copper just rolls right by. But hey, as long as all the other traffic is going 20 mph over the speed limit, it should be all good for me too, right?

[Countertrey]

That is a load of crap. The fines now make it profitable to stop and ticket those doing 5 over.

Please. There aren't enough hours in the day to pull over everyone who is doing 20 over. And even if they did start ticketing everyone doing five over, everyone always has the option of actually obeying traffic laws. God knows there are worse ways to generate revenue.

But like I said, the economics just aren't there. It's a truly stupid idea, made even stupider by the fact that other states have already tried programs like this and watched them fail miserably. It would be like a football team signing some loser wide receiver who had just been discarded by two other teams in the last two seasons. That's right, a Todd Pinkston reference.

You're ignoring an awful lot of history. There are localities that base portions of their incomes on traffic tickets... and that's at fine rates a lot lower. Little towns have speed traps for a reason... they are profitable.

Speed limits are unreasonably low anyway. No rural interstate should be lower than 75, and most should be 80. Add the traditional 12 mph grace, and I should be able to do my Maine to DC trip in about 7 hours... and I don't even have to avoid the profiteers in "The Old Dominion" (Patrick Henry must be rolling in his grave!)

As it USED to be.

[Irn-Bru]

I couldn't agree with you more on speed limits, CounterTrey. Our roads and the laws governing driving were built for the 1950's.

This is especially frustrating in Annapolis and Rt. 50 to DC, where they actually built the road curved instead of straight in order to slow people down, but nowadays it just causes major traffic in the same place. . .every morning and afternoon. . .

That's enough. . .I can't take much more negative energy today.

[Countertrey]

I couldn't agree with you more on speed limits, CounterTrey. Our roads and the laws governing driving were built for the 1950's.

This is especially frustrating in Annapolis and Rt. 50 to DC, where they actually built the road curved instead of straight in order to slow people down, but nowadays it just causes major traffic in the same place. . .every morning and afternoon. . .

That's enough. . .I can't take much more negative energy today.

LOL... I was on 50 just last week, having decided to take the Bay Bridge back from my visit with my daughter in Pax River. I hit is at 5 AM, so there was no traffic. Funny... the bridge seemed so much longer 45 years ago...

[Steve Spurrier III]

You're ignoring an awful lot of history. There are localities that base portions of their incomes on traffic tickets... and that's at fine rates a lot lower. Little towns have speed traps for a reason... they are profitable.

Speed limits are unreasonably low anyway. No rural interstate should be lower than 75, and most should be 80. Add the traditional 12 mph grace, and I should be able to do my Maine to DC trip in about 7 hours... and I don't even have to avoid the profiteers in "The Old Dominion" (Patrick Henry must be rolling in his grave!)

As it USED to be.

I agree with all of that. My only point was that in principle, I would rather have my state/county/whatever raise additional money through increased traffic fines than through tolls or raised taxes. But the economics has to be there.

[skins#1fan]

im waiting for someone to get on here and somehow blame bush for this...

[ChocolateMilk]

so i was driving with my sister on 95... and she was going 80 and got pulled over. and the cop didnt even go back to his car or anything. just asked if her backround was clean and then let her go.

[Cappster]

You're ignoring an awful lot of history. There are localities that base portions of their incomes on traffic tickets... and that's at fine rates a lot lower. Little towns have speed traps for a reason... they are profitable.

Speed limits are unreasonably low anyway. No rural interstate should be lower than 75, and most should be 80. Add the traditional 12 mph grace, and I should be able to do my Maine to DC trip in about 7 hours... and I don't even have to avoid the profiteers in "The Old Dominion" (Patrick Henry must be rolling in his grave!)

As it USED to be.

I agree with all of that. My only point was that in principle, I would rather have my state/county/whatever raise additional money through increased traffic fines than through tolls or raised taxes. But the economics has to be there.

It would be nice if our federal and local government had "fiscal responsibility". I work for a local county government and trust me, I see taxpayer money go to waste. Some ideas that my bosses have I just don't understand why they want to blow so much money on something that just isn't going to pay the returns. Price/performance ratio is irrelevant in government.

On a side note, the fines that are in effect are ridiculous! It is hard enough to live in Northern VA minus the fine for speeding. EVERYONE speeds at some point be it on purpose or accident. I am looking to see more 55mph speed zones that all of a sudden turn into 35mph speed traps.

[skinsfan#33]

You're ignoring an awful lot of history. There are localities that base portions of their incomes on traffic tickets... and that's at fine rates a lot lower. Little towns have speed traps for a reason... they are profitable.

Speed limits are unreasonably low anyway. No rural interstate should be lower than 75, and most should be 80. Add the traditional 12 mph grace, and I should be able to do my Maine to DC trip in about 7 hours... and I don't even have to avoid the profiteers in "The Old Dominion" (Patrick Henry must be rolling in his grave!)

As it USED to be.

I agree with all of that. My only point was that in principle, I would rather have my state/county/whatever raise additional money through increased traffic fines than through tolls or raised taxes. But the economics has to be there.

Traffic fines are supposed to be a tool used by the state to encourage people to obey the traffic laws and ensure public safety and to punish those that don't. They are NOT supposed to be used to increase state revenue, that is what taxes are for!

However, traffic fines (mostly speeding tickets) are big business. The state makes millions of dollars in revenue and insurance companies lobby to keep speed limits set at unreasonable speeds. Not because they don't want to lose money from accidents, but because they make an insane amount of extra money when they get to raise their rates for the poor unlucky schmucks that hits the ticket lottery.

It would be different if the speed limits were set at reasonable speeds but they are not. The interstate system was built to handle 2 ton vehicals going 75 mph with drum brakes and small bias ply tires. To have to drive a 2500 - 3500 pound car with disc brakes, ABS, stability control, and large speed rated radial tires on those same roads at 55 mph is just rediculous.

If the state's motive is public safety then I have no problem with the speed being low, but people don't drive the speed limit unless it is a reasonable speed and the state's motive is not public safety it is income revenue generation.

Some good info on how speed limits don't effect the speed that people drive can be found here at the Md DoT website:
http://www.sha.state.md.us/safety/oots/trafficsignalsandlaws/speedlimits2.asp

Here is a sample:

Will crashes increase if the speed limit is raised?
Probably not. Research has shown that the posted speed limit has little effect on the speeds at which most motorists drive. Raising the speed limit does not significantly raise the speeds at which motorists drive, and lowering the limit generally does not appreciably decrease their speeds. However, the more motorists learn from their experiences that speed limits are set at speeds that they consider safe and reasonable the greater the chances that the motorists will heed them. Speed limits significantly lower than the 85th percentile speed are ignored by many drivers and difficult to enforced