Your Draft Thoughts!

Washington Football Game Day discussions for 2003, 2004, and 2005
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Post by Redskin in Canada »

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01121.html

I feel that they do not acknowledge enough the value of our 6 pick and I hope that this season proves them wrong but they identify many of the same problems mentioned in this board before ... :cry:
Flying by the Seat Of Their Pants

By Les Carpenter
Sunday, April 29, 2007; Page E10

Approximately 2 1/2 hours after the start of the NFL draft, a great wind blew at Redskins Park, rotors hummed and a helicopter rose from behind the headquarters, whisking Coach Joe Gibbs to a FedEx Field draft party. Around the rest of the league, other coaches buried themselves in their war rooms scouring player lists, making picks, building futures. But the moment Washington filled its glaring holes on the defensive line with a safety, the priority became a party 30 miles away.

Who needs a silly old draft anyway?

And so as the coach chop, chop, chopped into the sky, banking right over the parking lot and soaring over the trees, the Redskins' draft board for the next two hours was left to scouts and assorted underlings. For the Redskins of Gibbs's second tour here, this seemed as good a plan as any they've had.

Around the rest of the NFL, team executives hear the word "Washington" and their faces cloud. They lean in and ask the question they mull internally all the time: "Who makes the decisions there?" Is it Gibbs? Vinny Cerrato? Daniel Snyder? Anybody? Every team must have a master plan, they say, a framework upon which all decisions are made and a direction is plotted. They wonder if this franchise has one and suggest it does not.

Four years into Gibbs II, they are still slapping names on a roster, gushing about talent even when they don't seem to know if that talent fits best with the other players on the team. For weeks the Redskins tried desperately to rid themselves of Saturday's first round, maybe of the whole first day of the draft altogether by trying to trade for yet another starting player developed by another team, figuring that throwing $20 million more in guaranteed money for Chicago linebacker Lance Briggs was a better bet than trying to develop from within.

Briggs is a talented defender, a good player who may or may not be an overrated product of playing on the same defense as Brian Urlacher, who could be the most dominant defensive player in the league. Either way, he is not a $20 million player. Nor would he have solved the pass rush and tackling problems that plagued the Redskins up front. Not to mention what taking on such a contract would do to the salary cap long term.

By now it should be clear that the Gibbs Redskins are not into franchise building. The master plan the other teams wonder about has been to slap pieces together in hopes that somewhere they find a magic mix of players and get Gibbs his one last Super Bowl before he jumps back into the helicopter and flies away for good. It would be a charming thought if the NFL hadn't changed so much the last few years.

The salary cap rules all decisions today. It's an understanding that has settled into every team headquarters but this one and perhaps Oakland. With the cap constantly rising, teams are able to keep their best players, meaning fewer and fewer top free agents come onto the market, thus limiting the pool of elite, experienced players. That the Redskins were ready to throw $20 million in bonus money at Briggs shows how limited the field of immediate replacements really is.

Once again a draft day came and the Redskins, having dealt most of their picks, were mostly bystanders. They did hold onto their No. 6 choice and used it to take LaRon Landry, who is considered a solid tackler. With 4.3 speed, he can run down ballcarriers. If he progresses as most in the league believe, he should soon be a starter and might just give the Redskins a building block for the future.

But as most of the other teams in the league put together their defenses in the mold now considered most effective, by building with draft picks and filling an occasional hole with a free agent, the Redskins have reversed the process, loading up with free agents and filling in with draftees. With the pick of Landry, Washington now has two players on whom it can rebuild for years to come -- Landry and Sean Taylor. Both are safeties -- not shutdown corners, not pass-rushing defensive ends, not run-stuffing linebackers.

Before he boarded the helicopter, Gibbs dropped by an auditorium to sum up the team's first day of the draft. He did not seem concerned that the team still does not have a dependable tackler in the middle, saying the coaching staff remains excited about Kedric Golston and Cornelius Griffin. He also said they are prepared to rely on Phillip Daniels and his three sacks last season to deliver the pass rush.

On a day when hope normally abounds, enthusiasm was muted around Redskins Park. Gibbs said by the time they arrived at headquarters in the morning the coaches were resigned to not trading their top pick. He talked about getting the best value for the pick, implying that the pass rushers and tackles were not as good as Landry, which may well be true.

It's hard to look at this first day of the draft and feel any better about the Redskins. They appear to be better in the secondary and have added a desperately needed leader in linebacker London Fletcher, but for a team that needs to win now before Gibbs leaves for good, they still don't have a pass rush and have left the offense in the hands of a quarterback with just seven NFL starts.

The coach may have been climbing, but on what is usually a significant day for most teams, there was still little reason to believe the franchise was rising with him.
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Post by joebagadonuts »

Like most of you, I'm baffled by the lack of attention paid to the DE position during free agency and the draft. But the interest in Briggs, the selection of Landry, the selection of Sartz (a small, quick LB), and the anticipated return of K. Campbell leads me to believe that perhaps Williams will try to put pressure on the QB with the LBs and safeties this year, rather than using a stud DE.

That's the only explanation I can offer. I can't imagine that a playmaker pass rusher with a low price tag will fall into our laps come June 1.
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Post by Snout »

I am sure than Landry will be a great player for the Redskins, but that misses the point. The Redskins need balance on defense. They need a dominant guy on the front line to complement the talent they already have at LB and in the secondary. Without a playmaking fear-inspiring gamechanging presence on the line, our outstanding linebackers and defensive backs are going to be just average.

Landry will not be starter on opening day and none of the other picks will make the 53-man roster.

I rate this draft C-
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Post by Gibbs4Life »

Sartz Blades Palmer Ecker



ALL MAKE THE TEAM
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Post by frankcal20 »

I would say that Ecker is going to be in all end zone packages. Who cares if he's slow, he only has to run 5 yards. Hell, he's 6'6.
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Post by John Manfreda »

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
John Manfreda wrote:This is typical Redskins draft, lets not adress our needs instead take a safety, than a bunch of Lb's. When is Snyder going to realize he needs a GM and can't pick the players himself. We didn't draft a guard and didn't get D-line help, Laundry probably will be good, I would rather draft a D-lineman especially since the game is won in the trenches.


I seriously doubt Snyder picked the players himself. What are you basing that on?[/quote
Think what you like but I doubt Snyder isn't picking the players.
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Post by 1niksder »

John Manfreda wrote:This is typical Redskins draft, lets not adress our needs instead take a safety, than a bunch of Lb's. When is Snyder going to realize he needs a GM and can't pick the players himself. We didn't draft a guard and didn't get D-line help, Laundry probably will be good, I would rather draft a D-lineman especially since the game is won in the trenches.


I think needs were address:

LaRon Landry:

The argument *** The Redskins should have traded down instead of drafting at a position that wasn’t a “need” position.
This wasn’t a need because the NFL Network had a graph and safety didn’t have a little thingy, so it must not have been a need. This might be true if AA had worked out. He didn’t and the position was a spot that needed a guy that will be here for years.

My opinion ** Of all the players in the draft I think he has the best chance to come in and provide help for this team. Safety became a obvious need with the performance of AA last year causing him to be shipped out and there is no guarantee that PP will be 100% The Redskins did well in selecting LL at number six. As far as trading down, who was there to trade down with? Atlanta was the only one to call so they did what they needed to do. It’s not like they drafted Levi Brown or Ted Ginn Jr. (both went higher than they should have). The Vikings didn’t come up to get Adrian Peterson once the Browns went with Thomas and the Bills just wanted one of the top 2 RBs. No one that was expected to target Quinn wanted to trade up for him; they won’t even take him when the pick came up. Trading down wasn’t a option and grapping a D-lineman at number six would have been like taking Ginn at #9 or Brown at 5.

The Linebackers:

The argument *** The Redskins should have drafted defensive lineman. DE & DT each had their own thingy that made it a no brainer at worst they should have gotten an OL (another thingy owner on the NFL network).
The defense line needs to be addressed because it wasn’t address during free agency.

My opinion ** I think we could have used a DE but I also thought Wynn was out of here only to visit the NFLPA site the other night and realize he had reworked his contract. Still don’t know if any years were added to his contract or not. At any rate this makes it obvious that we don’t know everything that’s going on this off-season. Stocking up linebackers actually makes a lot of sense for a team that was injury riddle at the spot last year, and went into the draft with only 6 on the roster. Marcus Washington’s health was an issue at the end of last season, Lemar Marshall was dinged most of the season, and Rocky had issues with his knee. That leaves Khary Campbell and newcomers LFB and Anthony Trucks. Williams likes to use a lot of LB and he didn’t have enough. I don’t know much about Sartz other than I’ll need a nickname for him if he makes the team, HB Blades is a nice pick and they both may contribute on special teams.

Jordan Palmer:

The argument *** The Redskins should have drafted any position other than QB. They’ve got Campbell, Brunell and Collins to go along with the guy (Casey Bramlet) playing in Europa or whatever it’s called now. This wasn’t a need and he stands no chance to make the team. Yeap you guessed … QB was thingy-less on the NFL network.

My opinion ** Bramlet is getting more playing time overseas year after year for a reason. Brunell will be gone next year and Collins would save the team $1,000,000.00 if he isn’t here this year. He seems to be a safe player to stash on the practice squad while he learns the game. His brother didn’t do too badly, after spending time on the bench. Campbell hopefully will be the starter for years to come but there isn’t anyone on the roster that can be counted on it he goes down in 2009. Let’s not forget it was the sixth round.


Tyler Ecker:

The argument *** not much discussion about this guy other than the pick should have went to DL, TE did have a thingy and it was listed as filled. That may explain it.

My opinion ** Not a bad pick but I wouldn’t list this spot as filled, if anything the OL thingy should be listed as filled with this pick. Buges will add about 25-30 pounds to this kid and make him a “Dirtbag”. We still need a blocking TE that can be counted on to catch an occasional
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Post by 1niksder »

And they stood pat with no picks in rounds 2,3,and 4 without shipping out any of next years picks!!!!!
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Post by Countertrey »

Nicely done, redskin1. Thanks.
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Post by 1niksder »

Countertrey wrote:Nicely done, redskin1. Thanks.

They did pretty good if we look at the big picture
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Post by jazzskins »

WE HAVE ALL OUR PICKS IN 2008! WHOO HOO! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Post by HEROHAMO »

OVerall I am pleased. I think we have two late round gems. In Dallas Sartz , and H B Blades. Blades is excellent against the run. Sartz excells in blitzing and coverage.
Sean Taylor starting free safety Heavens team!

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Post by skinsfan#33 »

jazzskins wrote:WE HAVE ALL OUR PICKS IN 2008! WHOO HOO! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


Maybe not! NO one ever could answere weather we still have to give Denver our 4th for Two Tears in a Duckett.

If so we have used a 3rd and a $th to aquire both B. Lloyde and T J Duckett and one isn't on the team and the other is didn't score a single YD.

Heck the Patriots just got Randy Moss for a forth and the 49ers (who rooked us for Lloyde) got Darnell Jackson for a forth. Why are we throwing inthe extra 3rd. Why didwe even give the 4th?
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Post by 1niksder »

skinsfan#33 wrote:
jazzskins wrote:WE HAVE ALL OUR PICKS IN 2008! WHOO HOO! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


Maybe not! NO one ever could answere weather we still have to give Denver our 4th for Two Tears in a Duckett.

If so we have used a 3rd and a $th to aquire both B. Lloyde and T J Duckett and one isn't on the team and the other is didn't score a single YD.

Heck the Patriots just got Randy Moss for a forth and the 49ers (who rooked us for Lloyde) got Darnell Jackson for a forth. Why are we throwing inthe extra 3rd. Why didwe even give the 4th?

The Duckett Deal is done, and the Skins have a full boat in 2008
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Post by brad7686 »

I am disgusted, but glad we got blades. However, he has nowhere to play but the middle. And Fletcher has that locked up for at least a few years probly. So i dunno. I'm still 98 percent disgusted.
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Post by skinsfan#33 »

1niksder wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:
jazzskins wrote:WE HAVE ALL OUR PICKS IN 2008! WHOO HOO! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


Maybe not! NO one ever could answere weather we still have to give Denver our 4th for Two Tears in a Duckett.

If so we have used a 3rd and a $th to aquire both B. Lloyde and T J Duckett and one isn't on the team and the other is didn't score a single YD.

Heck the Patriots just got Randy Moss for a forth and the 49ers (who rooked us for Lloyde) got Darnell Jackson for a forth. Why are we throwing inthe extra 3rd. Why didwe even give the 4th?

The Duckett Deal is done, and the Skins have a full boat in 2008


Bram Whinstien asked Larry Michaels about that, because neither knew and Larry thought that the Skins were on the hook for the 08 4th.

I can't understand why, but that what he said. And Gibbs has said that it will be nice to have all of our choices for 08 and then corrected himself and said "almost all".

I wish I new for sure but I can't find anything that says one way or the other!

But the point I was making is we toss in that "extra" forth that people get good players for, WITHOUT adding the 3rd. You can't tell me that Duckett or Lloyde are more tallented than R. Moss or Darnell Jackson.

In the whole line of "XXXXX for Dummies" books is there a "Trade Value for Dummies", because if there is, one of us should send it out to Redskins Park!
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Post by PulpExposure »

brad7686 wrote:I am disgusted, but glad we got blades. However, he has nowhere to play but the middle. And Fletcher has that locked up for at least a few years probly. So i dunno. I'm still 98 percent disgusted.


He gets a few years to develop and learn how to call a defense from someone who has been the leader of his defense everywhere he's gone.

That's not a bad thing at all.
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Post by trey53 »

I think the Skins did a good job considering they had 5 picks. Landry was considered the best defensive player on the board. Blades, simply put, was a freakin steal in the fifth. Have to admit wasn't too stoked about the QB pick...but at least his brother's good...hopefully he's not the runt of the litter like Eli. :) Nice big TE to block. Oh and as others have pointed out...2008 is intact. Not bad.
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Post by John Manfreda »

jazzskins wrote:WE HAVE ALL OUR PICKS IN 2008! WHOO HOO! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

That is definetly good news.
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Post by 1niksder »

skinsfan#33 wrote:
1niksder wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:
jazzskins wrote:WE HAVE ALL OUR PICKS IN 2008! WHOO HOO! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


Maybe not! NO one ever could answere weather we still have to give Denver our 4th for Two Tears in a Duckett.

If so we have used a 3rd and a $th to aquire both B. Lloyde and T J Duckett and one isn't on the team and the other is didn't score a single YD.

Heck the Patriots just got Randy Moss for a forth and the 49ers (who rooked us for Lloyde) got Darnell Jackson for a forth. Why are we throwing inthe extra 3rd. Why didwe even give the 4th?

The Duckett Deal is done, and the Skins have a full boat in 2008


Bram Whinstien asked Larry Michaels about that, because neither knew and Larry thought that the Skins were on the hook for the 08 4th.

I can't understand why, but that what he said. And Gibbs has said that it will be nice to have all of our choices for 08 and then corrected himself and said "almost all".

I wish I new for sure but I can't find anything that says one way or the other!

Now that I think about it, the trade had a lot of different options.

Swapping No.1s depending on how each team finished
Swapping No.1s and giving them the 3rd rd. pick in 2007 depending on how each team finished
Swapping No.1s and giving them the 4th rd. pick in 2008 depending on how each team finished
I'm not sure but the 3rd option may have been a 3rd in 2007 and 4th in 2008.

Considering we didn't swap no.1s this year Larry may be right I'll have to look into that.

**EDIT**

NFL 2008 Draft Picks Traded

2nd Round
Atlanta from Houston - QB Matt Schaub

3rd Round
Buffalo from Baltimore - RB Willls McGahee final payment with two '07 draft picks

4th round
Denver from Washington - WR Ashley Lelie (final part of deal - Atlanta)


5th round
Philadelphia from Cleveland - OC Hank Fraley

7th round
Minnesota from St. Louis - OT Adam Goldberg -
Buffalo from Philadelphia - Takeo Spikes/ Kelly Holcomb for Darnell Walker trade

Conditional Trades
Oakland from the Jets - DE Bobby Hamilton
Baltimore from Indianapolis - LB Ryan LaCasse (6th rd '06 NFL Draft)
Jets from Minnesota - QB Brooks Bollinger
Philadelphia from Seattle - FB Josh Parry
Denver from Tampa - QB Jake Plummer (retired)
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Post by SkinsFreak »

After thinking about it for a day or so, I really thought the entire draft was a little strange this year. Even Gibbs made mention about there not being a deep draft class overall this year. A lot of other crazy stuff happened as well. It just felt weird to me, all the way around.

They were talking about Brady Quinn on NFL Live today and were trying to compare him head-to-head with other young, recently drafted QB's already in the league. They possed the question of who they thought would have a better NFL career; Brady Quinn or Jason Campbell. Everyone agreed that Campbell will most likely have a better pro career.

Not that I give a rats behind what those fools have to say, but that was my assessment as well. :wink: :lol: :lol: Anyway, just thought that was intereting.
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Post by The Hogster »

I think we made the best pick possible at 6. Landry could be a perennial pro-bowler.

I was a little perplexed about the second day. But its early. If those guys make the roster at LB and contribute, then I will be happy.

I just look back on the LB's we draft and get nothing out of i.e. Robert McCune, Kevin Simon, Spencer Havner...I hope this year is different, but i'll take the wait and see approach. I would have liked to see us give a Defensive End with at least one pick. Perhaps a division II....standout with upside.
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Post by Gibbs4Life »

I like the fact that we have all our picks next year....



IT REALLY SUX that dallas has their whole draft plus cle's #1
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Post by HEROHAMO »

brad7686 wrote:I am disgusted, but glad we got blades. However, he has nowhere to play but the middle. And Fletcher has that locked up for at least a few years probly. So i dunno. I'm still 98 percent disgusted.
At least let the season play out. You cant write these guys off yet.
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Post by RayNAustin »

So much gloom and doom about the D-Line??? I say that our problems last year were mostly due to injuries to Springs and Prioleau, and the abysmal play of Archuletta coupled with nagging injuries to the d-line and a lack of production from the LB's. This also effected Taylor's play as he seemed to be pressing to do too much and consequently being out of position and late on mid and deep routs.

Williams, in turn, didn't employ nearly as much safety pressure in the pass rush as had been the Redskin trademark the previous two seasons.

I agree with Gibbs assessment that coverage in the secondary was the most pressing need to correct....as often as d-line pressure assists the secondary in turnovers, good coverage also leads to more sacks. Some people have forgotten about the term "coverage sack", and from what I saw last year, we didn't exactly excell in that department.

Of course the upgrades to LB corp will also help more than some expect. Holdman was a leak on the weakside, and Marshall was not an overpowering presence in the middle. Fletcher will make a huge impact, as will Rocky be ready to take the next step.

I believe having your FS leading in tackles is not the way you want your free safety to be used. That shows that the LB's are not getting the job done, nor is your SS. Look at the best defenses and see who is making the tackles.....your Mike and Sam LB should be your leaders, followed by your SS.

For example, Talor had 111 tackles....compare that to Ed Reed (59 tackles). When the FS is the leading tackler, that says one of two things...(neither of them good) 1) opposing offenses are getting too many deep penetrations into the secondary either by run or pass, or 2) the run defense is so leaky that the third line of defense is having to make the plays.

Fletcher is going to make a larger difference in the overall performance of the defense than any of the available d-lineman that were available in the draft. He has the speed to go sideline to sideline which will allow more pass rush from Washington from the outside. Landry is also a rocket that will likely be a safety blitz monster, as well as a playmaker in coverage situations.

Far from being the big question mark here, the d-line will be fine if injuries remain manageable, and I expect the overall defense to return to 2004-2005 form. The real question mark will be if Campbell can step up to the next level this year. If he does (and I think he will) the Skins have as good a shot at the NFC East title as anyone else.

Superbowl? Probably not this year. But a deep run in the playoffs is very possible. A few surprises happen? Like maybe Lloyd steps up and performs to his ability, and this offense starts to score 24 points a game...anything is possible!

I expect the Skins to give the odds makers in Vegas heartburn all year as the sleeper.

And don't discount the possibility that something big could still happen in the trade department before camp starts.

That's my 2 pennies.
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