Betts for Vilma Rumor??

nyjetsfan69 · Post by **nyjetsfan69** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:58 pm

right now i would rather have a whole season of leon washington than 3 games of clinton portis

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:05 pm

BossHog wrote:Betts' contract is extremely reasonable over the length of the contract... but that's what signing bonuses are for... to pro-rate money over a longer time. It isn't 'huge' at all... his extension was 5-years, $11M or so... or $2.2M a season... very reasonable.

Betts' contract was one of the most economical and reasonable contracts in recent Redskins' history, and is very commenserate with his duties as a BACKUP/PLATOON to Clinton Portis.

But since in salary cap land, you have to pay the ENTIRE signing bonus up front if you trade a player, it makes this deal bunk.

So just to be clear for you... great contract... not so great to dump the contract and pay the bonus up front.

Exactly. Put this stupid rumor to bed.

nyjetsfan69 · Post by **nyjetsfan69** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:15 pm

this trade wont happen but vilma is a superior talent than portis and betts. Players like vilma dont come along that often

Cappster · Post by **Cappster** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:20 pm

nyjetsfan69 wrote:this trade wont happen but vilma is a superior talent than portis and betts. Players like vilma dont come along that often

I disagree. Portis is an elite back in the NFL. Not many can change the course of a game like he can. Vilma is good but Portis is better.

nyjetsfan69 · Post by **nyjetsfan69** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:24 pm

I disagree. Portis is an elite back in the NFL. Not many can change the course of a game like he can. Vilma is good but Portis is better.[/quote]

that is because of the position that portis is in. How can a lb change a game except play good team defense and chase down tacklers. Also, what leadership qualities has portis shown

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:24 pm

nyjetsfan69 wrote:this trade wont happen but vilma is a superior talent than portis and betts. Players like vilma dont come along that often

Betts? Yes. Portis? No.

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:26 pm

1) Comparing offensive players to defensive players is difficult
2) Putting aside last year, Portis career rushing numbers compare favorably with the BEST EVER ... go look 'em up. Vilma is outstanding, I'd love to see him in DC, but "superior talent" simply is not accurate

Houligan26 · Post by **Houligan26** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:29 pm

I will take it a step further, saying vilma is a superior talent to portis is just absurd. Portis has pretty much been the mvp of his team every season except this past one. You can't say Vilma is once and a while talent when he is about equal to Lofa Tatupu. While Portis's numbers coming into this season were matched by only people with bust in canton.

nyjetsfan69 · Post by **nyjetsfan69** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:31 pm

Fios wrote:1) Comparing offensive players to defensive players is difficult
2) Putting aside last year, Portis career rushing numbers compare favorably with the BEST EVER ... go look 'em up. Vilma is outstanding, I'd love to see him in DC, but "superior talent" simply is not accurate

portis's careers numbers are only good because he was on a team called the broncos who could run an old lady for 1,000 yards look at droughns did there and then what he did in cleveland. Its like hawaii qb's. Its not the player its the system

Houligan26 · Post by **Houligan26** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:33 pm

[quote="nyjetsfan69"][quote="Fios"]1) Comparing offensive players to defensive players is difficult
2) Putting aside last year, Portis career rushing numbers compare favorably with the BEST EVER ... go look 'em up. Vilma is outstanding, I'd love to see him in DC, but "superior talent" simply is not accurate[/quote]
portis's careers numbers are only good because he was on a team called the broncos who could run an old lady for 1,000 yards look at droughns did there and then what he did in cleveland. Its like hawaii qb's. Its not the player its the system[/quote]

You are being a little ignorant. Please look at portis's numbers as a redskin then please look at the bronco rbs since portis. They still don't have a premier back right now unless you combine both bells into one person. Not to mention, something you don't see in the stats, Portis is one the best blockers in the game

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:38 pm

nyjetsfan69 wrote:portis's careers numbers are only good because he was on a team called the broncos who could run an old lady for 1,000 yards look at droughns did there and then what he did in cleveland. Its like hawaii qb's. Its not the player its the system

Portis set the Redskins single-season rushing record and the Redskins have had a decent running back or two.

nyjetsfan69 · Post by **nyjetsfan69** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:42 pm

Houligan26 wrote:
nyjetsfan69 wrote:
Fios wrote:1) Comparing offensive players to defensive players is difficult
2) Putting aside last year, Portis career rushing numbers compare favorably with the BEST EVER ... go look 'em up. Vilma is outstanding, I'd love to see him in DC, but "superior talent" simply is not accurate

portis's careers numbers are only good because he was on a team called the broncos who could run an old lady for 1,000 yards look at droughns did there and then what he did in cleveland. Its like hawaii qb's. Its not the player its the system

You are being a little ignorant. Please look at portis's numbers as a redskin then please look at the bronco rbs since portis. They still don't have a premier back right now unless you combine both bells into one person. Not to mention, something you don't see in the stats, Portis is one the best blockers in the game

but portis is injury prone as always and portis's numbers were pretty good but hes not an allpro back and he never will unless he can avoid an injury. Vilma would be a top3 lb if the jets were in a 4-3 and you guys know that

nyjetsfan69 · Post by **nyjetsfan69** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:46 pm

Fios wrote:
nyjetsfan69 wrote:portis's careers numbers are only good because he was on a team called the broncos who could run an old lady for 1,000 yards look at droughns did there and then what he did in cleveland. Its like hawaii qb's. Its not the player its the system

Portis set the Redskins single-season rushing record and the Redskins have had a decent running back or two.

1.John Riggins
2. Larry Brown
3. Stephen Davis
4. Terry Allen
5. Earnest Byner
those are some of the best hb's that i have seen for the skins. those guys are avg at best for alltime rb's

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:48 pm

Yes, injury prone as always would explain how he missed ONE game during the 2004 and 2005 seasons. Do you even know how he hurt himself last season? NO ONE here is knocking Vilma, you've just made up your mind about Portis, facts and stats be damned.

nyjetsfan69 · Post by **nyjetsfan69** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:49 pm

stats are better than my opinion i was just bored and wanted an arguement

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:50 pm

nyjetsfan69 wrote:
Fios wrote:
nyjetsfan69 wrote:portis's careers numbers are only good because he was on a team called the broncos who could run an old lady for 1,000 yards look at droughns did there and then what he did in cleveland. Its like hawaii qb's. Its not the player its the system

Portis set the Redskins single-season rushing record and the Redskins have had a decent running back or two.

1.John Riggins
2. Larry Brown
3. Stephen Davis
4. Terry Allen
5. Earnest Byner
those are some of the best hb's that i have seen for the skins. those guys are avg at best for alltime rb's

Your opinion is duly noted

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:52 pm

Dude, is just grasping for straws...... :wink:

Houligan26 · Post by **Houligan26** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:05 pm

At this site arguments that make no sense aren't wanted. Your senseless Portis bashing was just annoying

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:21 pm

Houligan26 wrote:At this site arguments that make no sense aren't wanted. Your senseless Portis bashing was just annoying

Yea jetsfan, I know you are new to the board and all, but everybody here i guess thinks any arguments against portis are quote "portis bashing" because he is god or something apparently. So ill save you some time in telling you not to make any of these arguments because i know from experience no one will take them into consideration.

* Portis' yards per carry has dropped well over a yard per carry since leaving Denver.

*Portis' yards per carry were substantially less than betts' in the time that portis saw last year (granted portis played some tougher d's, but it was also a really big difference in ypc between the two so i dunno)

*Betts and Portis were only drafted like 5 picks apart, Its not like Portis was considered to be an elite talent out of college. Now all of a sudden he is god because he went to denver.

*He is impatient with block development and doesn't have the best vision.

*He comes out of games immediately if he gets nicked up and he gets nicked up often.

*Don't mention names like droughns, an aging terrell davis, Tatum Bell, Mike Bell ( I mean really, who had heard of Mike Bell) or Mike Anderson.

Follow those guidelines and this thread will go much more smoothly.

It's not that i dislike portis, he does run hard, block well, and he is very athletic but it isn't like he is impervious to criticism like everybody thinks. He is not much better than betts if he even is.

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:38 pm

brad7686 wrote:
Houligan26 wrote:At this site arguments that make no sense aren't wanted. Your senseless Portis bashing was just annoying

Yea jetsfan, I know you are new to the board and all, but everybody here i guess thinks any arguments against portis are quote "portis bashing" because he is god or something apparently. So ill save you some time in telling you not to make any of these arguments because i know from experience no one will take them into consideration.

* Portis' yards per carry has dropped well over a yard per carry since leaving Denver.

*Portis' yards per carry were substantially less than betts' in the time that portis saw last year (granted portis played some tougher d's, but it was also a really big difference in ypc between the two so i dunno)

*Betts and Portis were only drafted like 5 picks apart, Its not like Portis was considered to be an elite talent out of college. Now all of a sudden he is god because he went to denver.

*He is impatient with block development and doesn't have the best vision.

*He comes out of games immediately if he gets nicked up and he gets nicked up often.

*Don't mention names like droughns, an aging terrell davis, Tatum Bell, Mike Bell ( I mean really, who had heard of Mike Bell) or Mike Anderson.

Follow those guidelines and this thread will go much more smoothly.

It's not that i dislike portis, he does run hard, block well, and he is very athletic but it isn't like he is impervious to criticism like everybody thinks. He is not much better than betts if he even is.

Well, that's riddled with inaccuracies and errors in fact that have been refuted so often on this site that I won't bother to do it now

DaRealistJoka · Post by **DaRealistJoka** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:43 pm

Does this rumor have any legs? Did a fan start this rumor were is this coming from. I would love to have Vilma but that price is too much. I would give them Betts(dont want to see him go) and 2nd round next year, because 6 to 25 is too much.

As for who is a better player I dont see how you can put Vilma in the same sentence as Portis, Vilma is good but not elite (not yet, he will be). In my opinion elite is top 5. This is the only season Clinton been hurt this bad, one season dont make you prone.

1. LT
2. LJ
3. Clinton
4. Tiki
5.Shaun Alexander

1. Urlacher
2. Al Wilson
3. Ray Lewis
4. Zach Thomas
5. Mike Peterson
I would say Dan Morgan when he is healthy .

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:24 pm

I think Vilma would be another high priced free agent who would need to be signed to an outrageous new contract. Personally, I'd rather keep Betts, forget about Vilma and pursue trading Portis for draft picks. Then regain some youth and depth that is sorely lacking right now. We could retain Duckett at a much lower price as Betts backup. Trading Portis would free up cap space and gain draft picks. I imagine teams like the Jets, Texans and Packers would come calling.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:51 pm

A trade involving Portis or Betts is not going to happen for a number of very good reasons that have been brought up here.

IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

how is it possible to discuss this further with those reasons, all well explained, above?

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:11 pm

Can you point out the reasons Portis won't be traded? I've read the whole thread and unless I just totally missed it, cannot find any mention of a reason why Portis would not be a trade target, bonus money, salary cap or otherwise. He counts considerably against the cap, is coming off an injury, is at a position where the Skins could afford to lose him and would garner much trade attention amongst the league. It needs to be considered.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:19 pm

fleetus wrote:Can you point out the reasons Portis won't be traded? I've read the whole thread and unless I just totally missed it, cannot find any mention of a reason why Portis would not be a trade target, bonus money, salary cap or otherwise. He counts considerably against the cap, is coming off an injury, is at a position where the Skins could afford to lose him and would garner much trade attention amongst the league. It needs to be considered.

You are partially right about the Portis reference but to me that trade also is not going to happen because I think Gibbs really values Portis ability and I am sure he was very much involved in keeping Betts - Gibbs seems to me to be very anxious to have these 2 in our backfield next year and that is in place to happen
We are not trading a back as great as Portis or someone who has been as good a team leader as he has here.