Nate Clements

[Redskins Rule]

I hope we overpay for him! This guy would shore up our defense so much so that we won't set an NFL Record for Interceptions! Or won't lead the NFL in 20+ yard pass plays. With Clements......we'll actually have a corner that can cover the opposing teams number 1 guy! And he'll be able to tackle very well too!! Man, Almost seems to good to be true........

[SkinsJock]

I hope we overpay for him! This guy would shore up our defense so much so that we won't set an NFL Record for Interceptions! Or won't lead the NFL in 20+ yard pass plays. With Clements......we'll actually have a corner that can cover the opposing teams number 1 guy! And he'll be able to tackle very well too!! Man, Almost seems to good to be true........

not to worry - this thread is about "Clemons", not Clements

[Redskins Rule]

uhhhhhh.......uhhhhhh.....I hope we overpay for Clemons as well!

[HEROHAMO]

ooohh boy. looks like danny boy hasnt learned his lesson, a source says he will be in hot pursuit for Nate Clemons this off season and i doubt he wont get him. is this good? i dont know about this, there have also been rumors that we might trade our 1st rounder for him[/u]

If we give up a first for him I am going to throw a shoe through my tv! Good player but no way we should give up first rounder for him.

[1niksder]

ooohh boy. looks like danny boy hasnt learned his lesson, a source says he will be in hot pursuit for Nate Clemons this off season and i doubt he wont get him. is this good? i dont know about this, there have also been rumors that we might trade our 1st rounder for him[/u]

If we give up a first for him I am going to throw a shoe through my tv! Good player but no way we should give up first rounder for him.

Clements was "Tagged" last year with the understanding it wouldn't happen this year.

[Irn-Bru]

We replaced him Preileau, who unfortunately got hurt.

Most people forget that we even had Pierson Prioleau at the beginning of last year. In fact, our safety position was so packed with personnel that we also let Omar Stoutmire get away in addition to Ryan Clark. I still think that it was a mistake to let Clark go, so I'm not with you for your entire argument Kazoo. However, I'd say that Clark, Prioleau, and Stoutmire were all roughly the same in terms of talent, and obviously the Redskins FO figured that they would have their bases covered by not overpaying for Clark, keeping Prioleau, and getting a stud safety in AA.

As it turns out, the star was a dud, and Prioleau unexpectedly was gone for the entire season after the very first play.

I just thought that I would note the history as I see it, since what I see most often on the boards is something like "the Redskins stiffed Clark and had no backup plan when AA didn't work out!" The Redskins did have a plan B (even a plan A, really) in Prioleau. And who knew that Archuleta was going to be that terrible?

[Mursilis]

And who knew that Archuleta was going to be that terrible?

Anybody who actually watched tape of him, I reckon. I thought that's why this team pursued free agents over draft choices so much; the team was going after proven commodities, not rookie gambles.

[KazooSkinsFan]

We replaced him Preileau, who unfortunately got hurt.

I still think that it was a mistake to let Clark go, so I'm not with you for your entire argument Kazoo. However, I'd say that Clark, Prioleau, and Stoutmire were all roughly the same in terms of talent, and obviously the Redskins FO figured that they would have their bases covered by not overpaying for Clark, keeping Prioleau, and getting a stud safety in AA.

I'm a little confused. It seem like you made the exact same argument I did. I would like to have kept Clark, but I didn't see him as an outstanding talent, just a decent player. We had other players of similar talent. Pittsburgh overpaid him because they found a rookie and his backup to be as good only cheaper.

Then you said you weren't entirely with me because you wanted to keep him. But I did too, just not for what Pittsburgh paid. Are you saying you would match Pittsburgh? And remember you have to answer that question without knowing AA would end up sucking and Preileau would go out the first play of the season.

[sch1977]

I pray that those rumors about us trading a 1st rounder for him are untrue.

That would be a horrible decision.


If we can get his as a FA then I'd be fine with it. He is a solid corner and he played under Gregg Williams in Buffalo.

sucks to give up a pick we could use on lamar woodley, but since he was already with williams at some point, i'm happy about that.

Lamar Woodley? Umm no!! He is looking at being a 2nd rounder

[Houligan26]

This is a terrible rumor we are all putting too much stock into. I have been terribly upset with a bunch of their moves but this would truly devastate me. I would take money out of my wallet to take a chance on Adams, Branch or Anderson over getting Nate Clements.

[Irn-Bru]

And who knew that Archuleta was going to be that terrible?

Anybody who actually watched tape of him, I reckon. I thought that's why this team pursued free agents over draft choices so much; the team was going after proven commodities, not rookie gambles.

If anyone who actually watched tape of him would think that he was terrible, then Gibbs & co. wouldn't have pursued him. Lovie Smith apparently wanted Archuleta, I'd think he wouldn't have wanted him either. Adam came to Redskins park and spent a dozen hours watching film and talking defensive philosophy with our coaches. Everything looked pretty good on paper.

It doesn't make him any less of a bust, but we can't pretend like the Redskins were staring the obvious in the face and still made a bad choice.

[Irn-Bru]

I'm a little confused. It seem like you made the exact same argument I did. I would like to have kept Clark, but I didn't see him as an outstanding talent, just a decent player. We had other players of similar talent. Pittsburgh overpaid him because they found a rookie and his backup to be as good only cheaper.

Then you said you weren't entirely with me because you wanted to keep him. But I did too, just not for what Pittsburgh paid. Are you saying you would match Pittsburgh? And remember you have to answer that question without knowing AA would end up sucking and Preileau would go out the first play of the season.

I would say that my disagreement with you lies in how much of a mistake I saw letting Clark go was. Clark was a big enough impact player on our team that he would have been worth a 4-year 7 mil deal, in my opinion.

Also, I think that having Clark on the team this past year actually would have made a significant difference in the overall performance of our D. Obviously that's simply a bald assertion, but I've noticed that you don't think he would have made much of a difference had he been in D.C. this past season. One man's opinion against another's, I guess.

So that's what I meant when I said that I disagreed with you (at a point). I wasn't claiming that you didn't want Clark back -- I'm not sure any Redskins fan would say that at this point.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I've noticed that you don't think he would have made much of a difference had he been in D.C. this past season.

What you are saying is what I have been arguing, so I'm not saying you got anything wrong, you can only react to what you see and what you said is what I have been saying.

In 20/20 hindsight I think it clearly was a mistake letting him go. Without 20/20 hindsight I think it is a toss-up, but reasonable to have liked him and wished we kept him. But you can't fault the front office for not knowing PP would go out the first play of the season.

But I think this endless pining for the guy is way out of proportion and I do think that Pittsburgh overpaid and are admitting it even by considering cutting a very reasonably priced starter.

But truth be told I am overstating that I think he was a nobody to yank the chain of people I do not think have any proportion on his real value and are greatly overestimaing it.

[Houligan26]

I couldn't agree more. It is is pretty unbelievable how much Clark is getting slurped a year after leaving the team. You would think he is a Redskins legend. He was a good hitter and solid in run support but was probably our weakest link in coverage in the 05 season. Stop making this guy out to be someone he is not.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I couldn't agree more. It is is pretty unbelievable how much Clark is getting slurped a year after leaving the team. You would think he is a Redskins legend. He was a good hitter and solid in run support but was probably our weakest link in coverage in the 05 season. Stop making this guy out to be someone he is not.

None of these guys are individual MEGA stars, not even S. Taylor YET.

But each of them were a UNIQUE cog in a well oiled machine. I said unique because they seem to think any ol'cog will fit in, I did too but thats not the case. Ryan played his role and played it well. He meshed well with Sean and combined a good tandem.

Ryan within the scheme and surrounding players was great.

Ryan played great for Pitt but they found a youthful guy and unlike the Skins, they like young cheap talent. His loss of the starting position was due to injury not level of play.

[KazooSkinsFan]

[His loss of the starting position was due to injury not level of play.

True, they found out he could be replaced by cheaper talent because he was injured, but it clearly WAS his level of play they were evaluating or they would not consider cutting a relatively cheap starter.

His level of play was compared DIRECTLY to those who replace him. And they decided apparently his level of play was NOT superior. And you can't spin that. If he was better then the cheaper players, he would start. They did not sign him to a 4 year deal with $2M bonus to cut him in one year and eat $1.5M in cap for it. That is a failure which would not have happened if he played better.

[Houligan26]

There is no doubt that Clark fit in well with the secondary. That is not in question. I am debating how great he is made out to be by all the post on this board. Could Archuleta have fit in with the secondary if he was given a little more time, who knows. Obviously they have no mega stars but before this year I believe Springs and Taylor were playing on a Pro Bowl level. There are tons of players around the league that could have stepped up and been Ryan Clark for us. The one thing he brought to the table that others can't was his effect on Taylor but thats Taylors fault that he can't mesh with the average player.

[USAFSkinFan]

As far as Arch goes, and whether or not the 'Skins took a good look at his play on tape... I've got to say there's just no way...

I sat here in StL watching every play he made/didn't make his last two years and he was just bad... it got so bad, the local news here had weekly clips of his missed tackles and assignments...

you have to understand, he was a HUGE fan favorite when he got here... especially with a name like "Arch" in St Louis... his jersey sales rivaled Fualks and Warners...

even with all that going for him, by the time he left his play was such a joke that I never heard a single fan or coach or team mate, or reporter, or sports talk commentator express any concern about him being a free agent... nobody even hinted that the Rams should try and keep him...

I absolutely cringed when the 'Skins paid all that money for him... all the while holding out hope that this was a talented guy that got caught up in a bad system... that's not the case...

And I think that's a little like what Greg Williams did... coaches are by and large ego maniacs, and I think they can be lured in by somebody who looks like they have all the tools, but isn't producing... and they think they can plug 'em into their scheme and show everybody how to tap those previously undeveloped skills...

[KazooSkinsFan]

There is no doubt that Clark fit in well with the secondary. That is not in question. I am debating how great he is made out to be by all the post on this board. Could Archuleta have fit in with the secondary if he was given a little more time, who knows. Obviously they have no mega stars but before this year I believe Springs and Taylor were playing on a Pro Bowl level. There are tons of players around the league that could have stepped up and been Ryan Clark for us. The one thing he brought to the table that others can't was his effect on Taylor but thats Taylors fault that he can't mesh with the average player.

Exactly, you and I are in agreement. I think the lamest of all the Clark arguments is that he could reach Taylor. Taylor is a talent, but he is Sean, not Lawrence and we should not pay millions for a babysitter who can "reach" him.

If Sean Taylor wants to be a star and make star salary in the NFL it's time for Sean Taylor to man up to the job himself. If Clark is here and "reaches" him fine, but we don't bring him here for that reason.

[Mursilis]

And who knew that Archuleta was going to be that terrible?

Anybody who actually watched tape of him, I reckon. I thought that's why this team pursued free agents over draft choices so much; the team was going after proven commodities, not rookie gambles.

If anyone who actually watched tape of him would think that he was terrible, then Gibbs & co. wouldn't have pursued him. Lovie Smith apparently wanted Archuleta, I'd think he wouldn't have wanted him either. Adam came to Redskins park and spent a dozen hours watching film and talking defensive philosophy with our coaches. Everything looked pretty good on paper.

It doesn't make him any less of a bust, but we can't pretend like the Redskins were staring the obvious in the face and still made a bad choice.

Maybe they did? See USAFSkinFan's post above. Or just maybe he hasn't been used properly in our defense. Even the most talented player used the wrong way is going to be a huge bust. Sean Taylor's a huge talent, right? I think we can all agree on that. But how would he do if we had him play defensive tackle? He'd get steamrolled by 300+ lb. linemen practically every play, and be a huge bust used in that fashion. I'm not saying AA would be an all-pro in another system (maybe his game really has slipped to the point that 'right bench' is where he should line up from now on), but I'm saying we don't yet know where the true problem is. Are guys like AA playing poorly, or just being used poorly?

[1niksder]

There is no doubt that Clark fit in well with the secondary. That is not in question. I am debating how great he is made out to be by all the post on this board.

No one is making him out to be great, just stating what the secondary was like with him as opposed to without him.

Could Archuleta have fit in with the secondary if he was given a little more time, who knows.

In a word... NOPE, he wasn't brought in to replace Clark. If you want to know why I say that then you'll have to use the sites search fuction.

Obviously they have no mega stars but before this year I believe Springs and Taylor were playing on a Pro Bowl level.

Did you ever think that maybe Clark and Taylor understand each other on the field better than ST would others considering that got here the same year? Springs was hurt most of the year

There are tons of players around the league that could have stepped up and been Ryan Clark for us. The one thing he brought to the table that others can't was his effect on Taylor but thats Taylors fault that he can't mesh with the average player.

You say Clark isn't great and there are tons of players that could have stepped up. Wouldn't that make him average? Yet Taylor thrived with him

[Houligan26]

I don't think you have read a lot of these posts because Clark is being made out to be a legendary figure while he was barely celebrated while on the Skins. Yes Springs was hurt this year, that is why I brought him up. I view his injury plagued season as ten times more devastating to the defense than letting Clark go. Archuleta didn't get a fair chance at all, not saying he would have succeeded but he got treated like a 2 yr old. Lastly, I will say again that I don't care that he helped Taylor play team football. He is a grown man and if he can't learn to play well with others than I am fine letting him go.

[BnGhog]

Clark is a legendary figure!! When you put the dynamic duo together. Clark on another team, well maybe not a legendary figure.
Let Taylor go??? So we could replace him with someone average? Soooo, we would be the 31st rank defence again? Oh, I mean 32nd.
Come on, the good plays we did have mostly came from Taylor.

[BnGhog]

quote Mursilis

The only reason the Redskins aren't in the Super Bowl is because we let Clark go!! The only reason!!! [/quote]

I agree!

[Houligan26]

Obviously I don't want to let Taylor go. He is my favorite player on the team but he is goign into his 4th year. We shouldn't have to say "oh he gets through to taylor so he is a good redskin" If we are going to need a babysitter to make sure taylor plays well for the rest of his career than yes let him go rather than give him millions when his rookie contract expires. Comes a time when you gotta grow up and its pathetic we blame his play on not having some that can reach him.