Head Butt?

[DarthMonk]

Not a huge Chargers fan here but did anyone else see it this way? The Chargers had just forced the Pats to punt. Score is 14-10. While a Charger corner was mildly celebrating a Pat shoved him with both hands to the shoulder pads. A ref right there immediately threw a flag. They ended up calling a personal foul on the Charger. Commentators referred to a head butt I never saw. What did you see? Multiple replays never revealed a head butt to me - just a frustrated Pat shoving a corner. Did the ref mix up the colors?

DarthMonk

[JansenFan]

I saw it DarthMonk. Plus, the reason terh Charger got up like he did was because the Patriot threw him to the ground by his facemask (or at least his helmet opening). That was a terrible call.

I hate the Patriots.

[Fios]

Amen, were I a Chargers fan, I would be very unhappy with the officiating, the Pats o-line got away with holding all day

[Deadskins]

It wasn't so much of a head-butt as he was getting in the Patriots player's face. He was just coming up from below, so it looked like he launched himself into the player. It's always the retaliation the ref's see. Players need to learn to control their emotions, especially in such a big game.

[SkinsFreak]

I hate the Patriots.

Me too.

[Redskin in Canada]

This is the perfect text book example of how to do something stupid and let your emotions get the best of you.

There is an unwritten rule on the field: the penalty is not called on the instigator. It is called during the retaliation.

What a stupid reaction. It showed a complete lack of discipline.

Having said that ... the Chargers allowed the Pats to win. They couldhave put them away a number of times. If I was LT, I would like to move to another non-Marty team. The Redskins for example.

[Smithian]

Our own CB Ade Jimoh got a penalty himself for celebration...

[KazooSkinsFan]

Not a huge Chargers fan here but did anyone else see it this way? The Chargers had just forced the Pats to punt. Score is 14-10. While a Charger corner was mildly celebrating a Pat shoved him with both hands to the shoulder pads. A ref right there immediately threw a flag. They ended up calling a personal foul on the Charger. Commentators referred to a head butt I never saw. What did you see? Multiple replays never revealed a head butt to me - just a frustrated Pat shoving a corner. Did the ref mix up the colors?

DarthMonk

I'm sorry, but did YOU see the play? The Charger was taunting in the Pats face, then gave the Pat a head butt in his face standing right in front of the ref. The Pat pushed him away AFTER the head butt.

Actually I like both teams. I dont' agree that the officiating was one sided. It was pretty minimal. Both teams got away with flagrant pass interference all afternoon. When refs do that both teams will think they were screwed only remembering what the other team got away with.

[DarthMonk]

Not a huge Chargers fan here but did anyone else see it this way? The Chargers had just forced the Pats to punt. Score is 14-10. While a Charger corner was mildly celebrating a Pat shoved him with both hands to the shoulder pads. A ref right there immediately threw a flag. They ended up calling a personal foul on the Charger. Commentators referred to a head butt I never saw. What did you see? Multiple replays never revealed a head butt to me - just a frustrated Pat shoving a corner. Did the ref mix up the colors?

DarthMonk

I'm sorry, but did YOU see the play? The Charger was taunting in the Pats face, then gave the Pat a head butt in his face standing right in front of the ref. The Pat pushed him away AFTER the head butt.

Actually I like both teams. I dont' agree that the officiating was one sided. It was pretty minimal. Both teams got away with flagrant pass interference all afternoon. When refs do that both teams will think they were screwed only remembering what the other team got away with.

Actually, yeah, I SAW the play. I just never saw the head butt. I watched the guy celebrate but I did not see him as taunting. I didn't feel like he was projecting at the Pat. I just saw a few intense exclamations of YEAH! with no in your face. Then I saw the Pat shove him with both hands and THAT was when the flag came out. I've seen a dozen replays and never saw a head butt. That's why I asked. I wanted to know if anyone else saw it that way. My phone rang immediately and a friend said, "They called it on the wrong guy."

BTW - This post had nothing to do with blaming the outcome on any play or call. I was just wondering if someone else saw it the way I did.

DarthMonk

[KazooSkinsFan]

Not a huge Chargers fan here but did anyone else see it this way? The Chargers had just forced the Pats to punt. Score is 14-10. While a Charger corner was mildly celebrating a Pat shoved him with both hands to the shoulder pads. A ref right there immediately threw a flag. They ended up calling a personal foul on the Charger. Commentators referred to a head butt I never saw. What did you see? Multiple replays never revealed a head butt to me - just a frustrated Pat shoving a corner. Did the ref mix up the colors?

DarthMonk

I'm sorry, but did YOU see the play? The Charger was taunting in the Pats face, then gave the Pat a head butt in his face standing right in front of the ref. The Pat pushed him away AFTER the head butt.

Actually I like both teams. I dont' agree that the officiating was one sided. It was pretty minimal. Both teams got away with flagrant pass interference all afternoon. When refs do that both teams will think they were screwed only remembering what the other team got away with.

Actually, yeah, I SAW the play. I just never saw the head butt. I watched the guy celebrate but I did not see him as taunting. I didn't feel like he was projecting at the Pat. I just saw a few intense exclamations of YEAH! with no in your face. Then I saw the Pat shove him with both hands and THAT was when the flag came out. I've seen a dozen replays and never saw a head butt. That's why I asked. I wanted to know if anyone else saw it that way. My phone rang immediately and a friend said, "They called it on the wrong guy."

BTW - This post had nothing to do with blaming the outcome on any play or call. I was just wondering if someone else saw it the way I did.

DarthMonk

He went with his helmet into the guy's facemask. It was flagrant. So was the taunting finger wagging before he did it.

When I saw it live I understand the first part that draws your attention is the shove. Even if you don't have HD like I do and and watch it about 15 times on TiVo like I did in shock that the Charger could have been that stupid on 4th down, they replayed it several times and you clearly see his helmet going directly in the Pats face and the Pats head snap back.

Even without the headbutt the taunting was worse then the call on Jimoh at the end of the season in the endzone. And he did both right in front of the ref. It was major stupid and there was no place for it. Calling it on the Pat for shoving a guy who just head butted your face would have been absurd.

[JansenFan]

What you are missing is that the Charger was thrown to the ground by the facemask after the whistle. That is why the Charger jumped up pissed off like he was. I'm not justifying it. The agressor always gets away with it. Just saying that being thrown to the ground by my facemask would piss me off as well. That's why I thought the penalty was on the wrong guy.

[KazooSkinsFan]

What you are missing is that the Charger was thrown to the ground by the facemask after the whistle. That is why the Charger jumped up pissed off like he was. I'm not justifying it. The agressor always gets away with it. Just saying that being thrown to the ground by my facemask would piss me off as well. That's why I thought the penalty was on the wrong guy.

That could be. The original post described it as "mild celebrating," ingnored the head-butt and only referred to the shove after the head-butt. To your point though a lot of times you don't know the original trigger and what you are saying is different, that he was flagrantly face masked.

I did an internet search becuase I was curious of other reporting. All referred only to the stupidity of the head butt and little on either the finger before or the shove after and none mentioned face masking. I'm not saying that as saying you're not right, only that it wasn't reported in anything I saw and I didn's see it. I did see the head-butt though and that was flagrant, which is what I was saying.

Regardless on 4th down I don't think even his coach would care about the facemask in measuring the stupidity of what he did. But you're not denying that either.

[redskingush]

I can't believe the way the season went down we are gonna see Indy - NE for the AFC representation in the Superbowl. This should be a great one again.

[DarthMonk]

I finally actually saw the head butt. Here's what I finally saw. After whistle Charger is thrown to ground by Pat who uses Charger helmet and facemask as a grip. Charger jumps to feet and apparrently celebrates 3rd down stop in Pat face (about 2 feet away). He then lunges toward Pat with haed and maybe makes contact (dicey) while at same moment Pat shoves him in shoulders with both hands. The shove may have actually prevented hemet to helmet copntact. Not sure. Either way the moves were sikjultaneous. It was not head butt followed by shove.

Apparently, the better team won.

Thanks for all comments.

DarthMonk

[KazooSkinsFan]

I finally actually saw the head butt. Here's what I finally saw. After whistle Charger is thrown to ground by Pat who uses Charger helmet and facemask as a grip. Charger jumps to feet and apparrently celebrates 3rd down stop in Pat face (about 2 feet away). He then lunges toward Pat with haed and maybe makes contact (dicey) while at same moment Pat shoves him in shoulders with both hands. The shove may have actually prevented hemet to helmet copntact. Not sure. Either way the moves were sikjultaneous. It was not head butt followed by shove.

Apparently, the better team won.

Thanks for all comments.

DarthMonk

You aren't sure there was contact? OK. Fact is bottom line is it was major stupid regardless, the refs are going to call it every time and it was 4th down. It got the Pats back in the game.

[SkinsJock]

Not in my opinion! I admit I do not like the Patriots but they did not win this game because they are "the better team", they won because the Chargers did not use LT enough. This guy has killed the Patriots every time they have played and he was doing well until they stopped giving him the ball.

A lot of games that I watched this year I noticed that the better teams lost games they should have won - mostly because they stopped doing what made them "better" and in some cases because they did not play together.
I don't know whether it is parity or a dilution of teamwork due to player movement, but, we saw a number of teams lose this year to teams that they should not have lost to.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Not in my opinion! I admit I do not like the Patriots but they did not win this game because they are "the better team", they won because the Chargers did not use LT enough. This guy has killed the Patriots every time they have played and he was doing well until they stopped giving him the ball.

A lot of games that I watched this year I noticed that the better teams lost games they should have won - mostly because they stopped doing what made them "better" and in some cases because they did not play together.
I don't know whether it is parity or a dilution of teamwork due to player movement, but, we saw a number of teams lose this year to teams that they should not have lost to.

This post is on a totally different point then what I said. I just said the penalty gave the Pats another chance when it was 4th down. Do you disagree with that?

Were the Pats the better team? I didn't address that, but I would have to say on Sunday no. The Chargers outplayed them all day. Brady was horrible. On the other hand, the "better team" needs to put their opponents away.

[DarthMonk]

I think we all get that "better team" thing. The Chargers were better in that they controlled both lines of scrimmage. The Pats were better in that they took care of all the little stuff - catching punts, not dropping passes, not fumbling picks - executing nice 2 pointer - and finally, scoring more points.

I sure wish the Bolts had won.

DarthMonk