What does it mean to be a fan?

[Skinsfan55]

I love the Washington Redskins.

I love the history, the uniforms, the greats to play for Washington... when I go play a dynasty on Madden I can't pick another team besides the Washington Redskins because it feels as if I was cheating on my girlfriend.

When I see the burgandy and gold in a magazine or on TV it makes me swell up with pride to know that's the Redskins and I pay special attention to what people are saying.

Still.

I hate the way the team is being run.

IMO Daniel Snyder is an excellent business man, he's intelligent with the cap, he's a brilliant negotiator... but he is a terrible, terrible talent evaluator.

In fact, there doesn't appear to be one even above average talent evaluator in the whole organization.

Joe Gibbs has never been a GM type, player evaluation is not his forte'. Vinny C? He has a leaguewide reputation as being terrible at scouting. Gregg Williams is known for being too confident in his defensive system to realistically break down a player based on what he CAN do rather than what he MAY do.

In many ways football is the hardest sport to evaluate players, and it has the largest roster size... yet there are fewer General Managers in football than in any other sport. Why does the sport that needs GM's the most have the least? In basketball and baseball and hockey, nearly every single team has a GM... but in football it seems like owners and coaches are so proud that they refuse to hand over any control to another front office member, no matter how intelligent and qualified they are.

Every year, the Redskins completely lack depth. They have an alright starting 11 that COULD be capable of big things, but never enough money left over for quality reserves or picks enough for rookie bench players with specific skills.

The Redskins have become an embarassment, they have the same old fire and swagger that came from those late 80's and early 90's championships... the days when the Redskins were feared by the entire NFL... now they are a pushover, similar to the school bully from 3rd grade who didn't hit his growth spurt during the summer before 4th grade.

I yearn for the time when the Redskins become dominant again, and I know that that time is in reach... but I also know how mismanagement could cost us years and years in reaching that dream.

Jason Campbell is an excellent young QB, Clinton Portis and Ladell Betts are a fearsome combo, Mike Sellers is still a good FB, Santana Moss is an explosive reciever, Chris ey is amazing, the offensive line is among the best in the NFL, Washington and Taylor can anchor a defense...

Yet the Redskins could mess this core up. They have the tendancy to let guys like Antonio Pierce and Ryan Clark go (guys who are relatively cheap and who perform well on the field, and are leaders in the clubhouse) so they can pursue shiny new "toys" like Adam Archuletta. Instead of wanting two good players, the Redskins would rather have one flashy player... and for reasons unknown.

If this season has not woken up the Redskins that they need a General Manager to oversee player AND coaching personel then it will NEVER happen until Dan Snyder sells the team or dies.

So, I love the team... and I want so badly for them to do well... but feel very strongly that they are not taking the steps to make it better (despite ownership's obvious desire.)

Does this make me a bad fan?

[Redskin Don]

You very eloquently summed up my feelings to a T. I truly bleed burgundy and gold and have for 35 years... I can remember the first time I paid attention to a Redskins game... I was 10 years old and the Redskins were playing Dallas in Dallas... I remember Charlie Harroway breaking a long run down the sidelines and the Skins winning 21-16 (I think that was the score...)... I basked in the glory years of Joe Gibbs, Part one. I've suffered through all of the Dan Snyder years and scratch my head wondering why we can't put it together again, but the BIG reason is what you stated: We NEED a GM and we need one yesterday. Until we have somebody up there minding the store besides Dan, Vinny, and Joe, this mess will not improve... I've seen some of the most mind-numbing, stupid personnel decisions that could've possibly been made this year... It's like curly, moe, and larry are running the ship. I never thought i'd say this, but i've gotten discouraged and i'm starting to lose faith in joe gibbs. Like it or not, he IS partially responsible for this mess that is the 2006 washington redskins, in fact, i'll lay most of the blame in his lap... how do you take a team that was playoff caliber and turn them into a smoking, leaking, junk heap? admittedly, the offense is pretty good... the defense is a freaking nightmare. they couldn't stop a team of angry old women, let alone a decent nfl offense. ok, i'll stop and take a breath now. this isn't good for my health...

[Skinsfan55]

What also frustrates me to no end was how the Redskins were getting killed over this mismanagement in the papers and other media so they created their own news outlet on their website RedskinsTV.

Now, Redskins.com is sugar coated nonsense that does not dig deep into the teams problems like the Post or other area papers do.

Instead of reading the papers and seeing what they were doing wrong the Redskins organization arrogantly took a "we'll show them!" stance and started making their own coverage.

Surprisingly, most fans are not only okay with this, but join the Skins in media hating.

[Redskin Don]

Now, Redskins.com is sugar coated nonsense that does not dig deep into the teams problems like the Post or other area papers do.

... and that's why i only read the post's and the times' redskins coverage... i don't want to read a bunch of gobbledy gook when the redskins stink it up... i'd like to know what's going on from guys who were there to talk to the players and coaches and who aren't in the employ of dan snyder. tell me like it is, don't candy coat it.

[HEROHAMO]

You very eloquently summed up my feelings to a T. I truly bleed burgundy and gold and have for 35 years... I can remember the first time I paid attention to a Redskins game... I was 10 years old and the Redskins were playing Dallas in Dallas... I remember Charlie Harroway breaking a long run down the sidelines and the Skins winning 21-16 (I think that was the score...)... I basked in the glory years of Joe Gibbs, Part one. I've suffered through all of the Dan Snyder years and scratch my head wondering why we can't put it together again, but the BIG reason is what you stated: We NEED a GM and we need one yesterday. Until we have somebody up there minding the store besides Dan, Vinny, and Joe, this mess will not improve... I've seen some of the most mind-numbing, stupid personnel decisions that could've possibly been made this year... It's like curly, moe, and larry are running the ship. I never thought i'd say this, but i've gotten discouraged and i'm starting to lose faith in joe gibbs. Like it or not, he IS partially responsible for this mess that is the 2006 washington redskins, in fact, i'll lay most of the blame in his lap... how do you take a team that was playoff caliber and turn them into a smoking, leaking, junk heap? admittedly, the offense is pretty good... the defense is a freaking nightmare. they couldn't stop a team of angry old women, let alone a decent nfl offense. ok, i'll stop and take a breath now. this isn't good for my health...

Like I said in past Threads! Letting go of Arrington was a huge mistake. The void that arrington left can not be understated. I believe if he were still in Washington he would have stayed healthy and prospered. He is gone now but it just one of the mistakes. I also believe that GW has a serious relations problem with his players. We have a whole offseason to hopefully shore up this D line. A weakside linebacker wouldnt hurt either.

[Skinsfan55]

As poorly as I think the team is being run, I really don't mind the absence of Arrington... he was becoming a injury plagued distraction IMO.

He also freelanced which could lead to big plays.

The guys I wish we had kept were people like AP, and Ryan Clark... excellent role players.

[1niksder]

As poorly as I think the team is being run, I really don't mind the absence of Arrington... he was becoming a injury plagued distraction IMO.

He also freelanced which could lead to big plays.

The guys I wish we had kept were people like AP, and Ryan Clark... excellent role players.

Wouldn't surprise me if Clark is cut by the Steelers this off-season

[UK Skins Fan]

"What does it mean to be a fan?"

Every January, I tend to think eternal damnation and a predeliction towards self harm just about describes it.

[Skinsfan55]

As poorly as I think the team is being run, I really don't mind the absence of Arrington... he was becoming a injury plagued distraction IMO.

He also freelanced which could lead to big plays.

The guys I wish we had kept were people like AP, and Ryan Clark... excellent role players.

Wouldn't surprise me if Clark is cut by the Steelers this off-season

Yeah, maybe... but he still forced two fumbles, intercepted three passes and made 59 tackles for us in 2005, and he even got a sack.

For the Steelers he was decent but not AS good, though he recovered a ton of fumbles and picked a pass off.

IMO, if he's available we should pick him back up, if only because he and Sean Taylor are such good friends. According to the papers Redskins players still call Ryan Clark to ask him how to deal with ST.

[riggofan]

Nice post, thanks!

btw How funny is it that in looking for answers for this dismal season you find fans lamenting the loss of Ryan Clark? How many NFL fans (or skins fans for that matter) even know who Ryan Clark is?

Not saying there isn't truth to it. Its just kind of crazy.

[old-timer]

He also freelanced which could lead to big plays.

Yeah, thank God we got rid of Arrington and stopped giving up big plays!

[Fios]

He also freelanced which could lead to big plays.

Yeah, thank God we got rid of Arrington and stopped giving up big plays!

You're seriously going to make the argument that the Redskins would have been better off with Arrington this season?

[Mursilis]

He also freelanced which could lead to big plays.

Yeah, thank God we got rid of Arrington and stopped giving up big plays!

You're seriously going to make the argument that the Redskins would have been better off with Arrington this season?

I don't know if I would make the argument, but it's not irrational either. Aside from M. Washington, the play at linebacker was nothing special this year. I'm not talking about McIntosh here; he barely got to play.

[KazooSkinsFan]

He also freelanced which could lead to big plays.

Yeah, thank God we got rid of Arrington and stopped giving up big plays!

Just wondering, is your priority:

The Skins) In case it may make sense to move forward

LaVar "Wahh, I want another bonus, don't care if it's not in my contract" Arrington) In which case the Giants are up the road. You could make them your second team and keep rooting him every day of the year except two. I live in New England now and like the Patriots. Never when they play the Skins though.

I'm not bashing you and saying you're not a Skins fan, which is why I said second team. But even if you are right (personally I was as thrilled when he gave us cap and left as I was when we got him), isn't it time to move on?

What should we do this coming off season, not the last one?

[PulpExposure]

Skinsfan55, excellent post.

[Like I said in past Threads! Letting go of Arrington was a huge mistake. The void that arrington left can not be understated. I believe if he were still in Washington he would have stayed healthy and prospered. He is gone now but it just one of the mistakes.

He wasn't a mistake. He was taking 9 million of our cap room, and you need be a star player to take that much room. And healthy? What happened in NY for him this year?

He once was a very good player. But the knee injury really took away his explosiveness, and that's what his game was built around. He wasn't a smart football player...wasn't a particularly fundamentally sound football player. Without his explosiveness, he's just another linebacker.

9 million for just another linebacker is management stupidity that only the Redskins should be capable of.

[SkinsJock]

I'd also like to include another player into this "insightful" chat ! We all saw how fantastic a job the former Redskin LB did last night - when the eagles basically just took the ball and went down to kick a field goal to win the game when they had to - that is all on that defense and in particular I would like to "congratulate" the former Redskin who is the play caller for that "awsome" defense. That D did not beat the Redskins - that was our D letting Barber get 234 yards. This is a D with defensive ends and a MLB - we will get better - they will be the same.

The Giants are in fact IMO in worse shape than we are - they have open discipline concerns and they are a team in turmoil. For those that say "so are we", I'm not sure about that - very frustrated, yes! But we have Gibbs, they have Coughlin (hopefully next year as well!) We will address our issues - this team and the pukes are going to have a very interesting off season.

[air_hog]

As poorly as I think the team is being run, I really don't mind the absence of Arrington... he was becoming a injury plagued distraction IMO.

He also freelanced which could lead to big plays.

The guys I wish we had kept were people like AP, and Ryan Clark... excellent role players.

Wouldn't surprise me if Clark is cut by the Steelers this off-season

Well, I was thinking that too, so I went to the Steelers F2F site and posted the question, Will You Guys cut Ryan Clark this Offseason?

And they all responded, NO.

They said that he probably won't start next year, because their young rookie Anthony Smith played really well, but nonetheless they all love Clark's energy and enthusiasm for the game. Hmm, sound familiar.

And what hurts the most, is some guy said, "Hey, were not the Redskins over here. We don't get rid of team players for individuals"

And as for a GM: I have two words, Scott Pioli.

Honestly, I have no clue why Snyder hasn't kidnapped him yet.

Lets go over the facts: 1) Obviously we need a GM, like SkinFan55 said becuase our way of building a franchise cleary doesn't work. 2) Pioli is probably the best out there because well lets see, the Patriots came from nothing and then went on to win 3 out of the last 4 Super Bowls with quote/unquote "no name players". And 3) There is no salary cap for coaches and stuff like that... so duh we can/would out price every single team in the NFL by tons of money.

Snyder, GET SCOTT PIOLI!

[Mursilis]

I'd also like to include another player into this "insightful" chat ! We all saw how fantastic a job the former Redskin LB did last night - when the eagles basically just took the ball and went down to kick a field goal to win the game when they had to - that is all on that defense and in particular I would like to "congratulate" the former Redskin who is the play caller for that "awsome" defense. That D did not beat the Redskins - that was our D letting Barber get 234 yards. This is a D with defensive ends and a MLB - we will get better - they will be the same.

The Giants are in fact IMO in worse shape than we are - they have open discipline concerns and they are a team in turmoil. For those that say "so are we", I'm not sure about that - very frustrated, yes! But we have Gibbs, they have Coughlin (hopefully next year as well!) We will address our issues - this team and the pukes are going to have a very interesting off season.

Can't bust on the Giants for something they did but we haven't done for 10+ years - make the playoffs two years in a row. Didn't we 'address our issues' last offseason? How'd that turn out? I agree they're a mess, especially with Tiki gone, Eli stumbling, and Coughlin probably out the door, and we should look much better next season, but we should probably hold the trash talking until we actually beat them or something. Seems like they swept us pretty good this year.

[Mursilis]

As poorly as I think the team is being run, I really don't mind the absence of Arrington... he was becoming a injury plagued distraction IMO.

He also freelanced which could lead to big plays.

The guys I wish we had kept were people like AP, and Ryan Clark... excellent role players.

Wouldn't surprise me if Clark is cut by the Steelers this off-season

Well, I was thinking that too, so I went to the Steelers F2F site and posted the question, Will You Guys cut Ryan Clark this Offseason?

And they all responded, NO.

They said that he probably won't start next year, because their young rookie Anthony Smith played really well, but nonetheless they all love Clark's energy and enthusiasm for the game. Hmm, sound familiar.

And what hurts the most, is some guy said, "Hey, were not the Redskins over here. We don't get rid of team players for individuals"

And as for a GM: I have two words, Scott Pioli.

Honestly, I have no clue why Snyder hasn't kidnapped him yet.

Lets go over the facts: 1) Obviously we need a GM, like SkinFan55 said becuase our way of building a franchise cleary doesn't work. 2) Pioli is probably the best out there because well lets see, the Patriots came from nothing and then went on to win 3 out of the last 4 Super Bowls with quote/unquote "no name players". And 3) There is no salary cap for coaches and stuff like that... so duh we can/would out price every single team in the NFL by tons of money.

Snyder, GET SCOTT PIOLI!

Ozzie Newsome would work fine as well. Seems like he knows what he's doing.

[KazooSkinsFan]

They said that he (Clark) probably won't start next year, because their young rookie Anthony Smith played really well, but nonetheless they all love Clark's energy and enthusiasm for the game. Hmm, sound familiar.

So we're pining over a backup? They like him though. See, that's why we didn't win enough games. Not enough people sitting on the bench people say "darn it, I just like him!"

Maybe we can keep AA and just convince people to like him better.

[SkinsJock]

..Can't bust on the Giants for something they did but we haven't done for 10+ years - make the playoffs two years in a row. Didn't we 'address our issues' last offseason? How'd that turn out? I agree they're a mess, especially with Tiki gone, Eli stumbling, and Coughlin probably out the door, and we should look much better next season, but we should probably hold the trash talking until we actually beat them or something. Seems like they swept us pretty good this year.

That's probably why I hate that franchise so much - for some reason I do not mind the Eagles as a team but regard their fans as absolute trash - I really dislike both the Giants and the pukes and you'r right in that it is most likely because I feel their teams are just historically harder to beat.

You're also right about needing to play better but at this time of the year after the expectations of the last off season - I confess to being a little thin skinned.

I really want to think that the quality on our sidelines will learn from both this past season and what they have done here the past few years and give us a successful team next season - these are good coaches and we will hopefully see the cream rise to the top.
I also think we only have a few holes and some decent depth - but then again I was thinking that way last February!

HAIL

[old-timer]

He also freelanced which could lead to big plays.

Yeah, thank God we got rid of Arrington and stopped giving up big plays!

You're seriously going to make the argument that the Redskins would have been better off with Arrington this season?

All I know is that last year, when Arrington was injured, our defense sucked as bad as it has practically all year this year. And when Arrington came back, we won five in a row, and we DID GO. And Arrington made the game clincher in Tampa Bay, despite Mark Brunell's 106 yards of offense.

And this year, we're 31st in defense. And despite what everyone says, injuries are not a major reason why. Poor player management, which results in Kenny Wright STARTING FOR THE WASHINGTON REDSKINS AND MIKE RUMPH PLAYING NICKEL, IS.

I'm not Marcus Washington, so I can't tell you how he felt about being the best LB and being vastly underpaid compared to Arrington, so I don't know what re-signing Arrington would have done to team chemistry. But I don't think it's ridiculous to argue that any one particular change would have been better, because practically anything would have improved a defense 31st in the league.

And you know what? Without MAJOR defensive changes, does any sane person have any reason whatsoever to believe that our defense will improve next year? Quick: who are our cornerbacks next year, other than Carlos Rogers? Who are our safeties, after Sean Taylor? How are you going to rebuild a good defense from NOTHING?

[old-timer]

He also freelanced which could lead to big plays.

Yeah, thank God we got rid of Arrington and stopped giving up big plays!

Just wondering, is your priority:

The Skins) In case it may make sense to move forward

LaVar "Wahh, I want another bonus, don't care if it's not in my contract" Arrington) In which case the Giants are up the road. You could make them your second team and keep rooting him every day of the year except two. I live in New England now and like the Patriots. Never when they play the Skins though.

I'm not bashing you and saying you're not a Skins fan, which is why I said second team. But even if you are right (personally I was as thrilled when he gave us cap and left as I was when we got him), isn't it time to move on?

What should we do this coming off season, not the last one?

My first priority is the Redskins. Maybe we are, after all, better off with Lavar gone, maybe not, nobody can really know. I just thought it was pretty ridiculous to talk about how Lavar's freelancing made us vulnerable to the big play, when our defense last season was practically worst in the league, and among the most prone to give up, you guessed it, the big play. It was particularly ironic considering that it was Lavar's return from injusry that correlated with last year's defensive resurgence in the stretch drive that brought us into the playoffs.

If you don't study the past, you're doomed to repeat it. GW has a pattern of having problems with his players and underestimating their importance to the team. And he keeps bringing in busts. This is not a pattern that I want to relive next year. And I consider that to be forward-looking.

.

[KazooSkinsFan]

If you don't study the past, you're doomed to repeat it. GW has a pattern of having problems with his players and underestimating their importance to the team. And he keeps bringing in busts. This is not a pattern that I want to relive next year. And I consider that to be forward-looking.

Just asking, I consider LaVar to have been an unusual case. What would we have learned from him that's worth studying now? He was an excellent athlete, but he didn't seem to learn or develop well. He kept repeating the same mistakes. Players of his exceptional ability who don't learn to play with their 10 fieldmates are very rare. It just seems an unusual situation.

And man, he would never shut the heck up about that $5mil bonus he wanted that wasn't in is contract. For me the bonus became a real sore point. Sure, Snyder signed him for $60 mil and stiffed him over $5 mil. Snyder is not a flat out moron no matter what football mistakes he's made. I think LaVar got confused over all the numbers thrown around, but GET OVER IT! It went on two years and he wouldn't shut up about it.

It is funny to me that my Penn State friend told me when we drafted him he would make some spectacular plays, and burn us by being an out of position hot dog who didn't play in the D several times for each good play. I thought he was exaggerating. But when LaVar gave us cap to leave and I remembered what he said and was thinking how that nailed how I felt about him then.

And seriously, I live in Connecticut now and hear Giants fans concerned about his ability to even get on the field no matter how good you think he is when he's there.

[air_hog]

They said that he (Clark) probably won't start next year, because their young rookie Anthony Smith played really well, but nonetheless they all love Clark's energy and enthusiasm for the game. Hmm, sound familiar.

So we're pining over a backup? They like him though. See, that's why we didn't win enough games. Not enough people sitting on the bench people say "darn it, I just like him!"

Maybe we can keep AA and just convince people to like him better.

Dude, you're totally missing the point. And it's funny becuase your post makes you look like an arrogant idiot.

You said that's why we didn't win enough games right. Yes. Well let's see, our record with Ryan Clar= 10-6. And oh yeah, A PLAYOFF VICTORY.

Now let's see our record with out Ryan Clark = Hmm. 5-11 and an effed up secondary where no one has a clue about what they are doing.

KazooSkinsFan, haven't you finally realized that maybe our way of going out and getting the "best"/big name players doesn't work.

I mean let's see, when the Hall of Fame coach Joe Gibbs won 3 Super Bowls, who where his Quaterbacks agian? No really, who where they. Doug Williams and Mark Rypien. What... Who?

And that is the point. You don't need Super stars to win championships, you need team chemistry. You need to have fun when you're playing and who you're playing with. You need a swagger.

But when you're team is a bunch of stuck up over-paid me-me-me players, you lose.