Our Linebackers

kimaster · Post by **kimaster** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:09 am

Holdman sucks so bad. i mean this guy sucks so bad that when our opponents are smart, they know to run to his side. i dont know what this guy greg williams is doing keeping him in there still. has this guy williams lost it? u gotta be a moron to still think that holdman is good enough to be a starter in the NFL. u pathetic defensive coordinator u. marshall aint that far behind either. ur motto "its the system, not the players" take it and shove it up ur ass u pathetic punk. isnt it obvious now that it wasnt his system and that it was the players that made greg williams who he is.

its not the players, its the system my ass.

aswas71788 · Post by **aswas71788** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:09 pm

Is this kind of post allowed?

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:40 pm

aswas71788 wrote:Is this kind of post allowed?

Just because it's unintelligible, doesn't mean that it's outlawed. . .

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:43 pm

Did somebody say moron?

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:55 pm

I agree that Holdman is probably the worst LB in the NFL, and I am also puzzled that he continues to start over a guy that we traded picks to draft, but then again, we traded for Duckett and don't play him so I guess its on par with the Skins' philosophy.

Holdman is really that bad, I can't remember any good plays he's ever made. He doesn't make the plays he should, and only makes tackles by accident.

SkinzCanes · Post by **SkinzCanes** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:57 pm

Holdman is easily the worst linebacker in the NFL. Marshall imo is one of the worst middle linebacker's in the lead. He's just too small and struggles too much in coverage. Next season let Rocky start and bring in a new MLB.

air_hog · Post by **air_hog** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:16 pm

SkinzCanes wrote:Holdman is easily the worst linebacker in the NFL. Marshall imo is one of the worst middle linebacker's in the lead. He's just too small and struggles too much in coverage. Next season let Rocky start and bring in a new MLB.

I would say Holdman is bad, but not the worst in the NFL.

But for Marshall, I couldn't agree with you more. I've wanted to give Marshall a free pass because of his great play the last two years, but this I believe his play has dropped off significantly.

He always tackles too high and doesn't end up finishing the tackle, which is pretty common on the whole defense actually.

But his zone coverage skills are horrendous. I don't know if it's GW just telling to play like that, or if he just has no coverage skills. I mean he does the same exact thing everytime. All he does is just strafe straight backwards, never leaving the QB's eyes. So then the WR's just run right behind him, and catch about a yard behind him and to his left/right and just get a first down.

I don't know if there are any good MLB prospects this year in the draft, but if there are I think we should consider taking a guy with our first pick.

SkinzCanes · Post by **SkinzCanes** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:28 pm

I don't know if there are any good MLB prospects this year in the draft, but if there are I think we should consider taking a guy with our first pick.

Patrick Willis from Mississippi St. and Buster Davis from FSU. We could probably draft one of them with our second round pick.

aswas71788 · Post by **aswas71788** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:46 pm

The question was not about it's legibility or illiteracy, it was about the language used. I thought that we were not supposed to use profanity in our posts.

Smithian · Post by **Smithian** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:17 pm

Skinz, Patrick Willis is from Ole Miss.

Mississippi State has a good linebacker of their own in Quinton Culberson, but he isn't near the level of a Patrick Willis.

mastdark81 · Post by **mastdark81** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:29 pm

SkinzCanes wrote:Holdman is easily the worst linebacker in the NFL. Marshall imo is one of the worst middle linebacker's in the lead. He's just too small and struggles too much in coverage. Next season let Rocky start and bring in a new MLB.

Marshall is not the punishing mlb that you want but i actually feel he is probably a better with the pass then the run. I say if we keep him at MLB next year definitely put him in only on passing downs.

Holdman is crap.

kimaster · Post by **kimaster** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:45 pm

why are most of u not getting the point of my post? im saying yes, holdman and marshall suck but it comes down to this arrogant pathetic greg williams keep trying to prove his motto " its not the players, its the system" crap.

i mean if u were holdman and marshall and ur d coordinator wants u to keep starting, are u not gonna?

as much as i know how bad holdman and marshall are, its really not their fault that they are in there making an asss out of themselves game after game.

SkinzCanes · Post by **SkinzCanes** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:29 pm

why are most of u not getting the point of my post? im saying yes, holdman and marshall suck but it comes down to this arrogant pathetic greg williams keep trying to prove his motto " its not the players, its the system" crap.

i mean if u were holdman and marshall and ur d coordinator wants u to keep starting, are u not gonna?

as much as i know how bad holdman and marshall are, its really not their fault that they are in there making an asss out of themselves game after game.

You're point is well taken. GW, since coming here, has made a mess of things on the defensive side of the ball with his personnel decisions. I think that he runs a very good defensive system, but his day to day coaching and player personnel decisions leave much to be desired. If you look at our defense since he's come here, each season we have lost key players that have been replaced with worse players. On top of that, the talented players that we have here all seem to have gotten worse from last year to this year. Accrosss the board just about every starter from last year that is still here has gotten worse. It makes me wonder if the caoches are spending too much time on the scheme and not enough time making sure the players are receiving the coaching that they need. And while GW did have a top 5 defense during his first season here, many of the players that season he inherited. Since he started making the personnel decisions on defense the unit has gotten worse each season.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:58 am

aswas71788 wrote:The question was not about it's legibility or illiteracy, it was about the language used. I thought that we were not supposed to use profanity in our posts.

I understand -- I was only making a joke.

I'll put on the 'moderator' hat for a moment to say that our definition of profanity goes something like this: you really can't write 2 specific words (they're the ones that get automatically altered by the website), and if a post is excessive in its use of 'allowable' profanity or otherwise grotesque language, then it will be subject to being edited.

The rule is part black-and-white and part judgment call.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:04 am

SkinzCanes wrote:
I don't know if there are any good MLB prospects this year in the draft, but if there are I think we should consider taking a guy with our first pick.

Patrick Willis from Mississippi St. and Buster Davis from FSU. We could probably draft one of them with our second round pick.

They'd just play special teams until week 15 or 16

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:12 am

1niksder wrote:
SkinzCanes wrote:
I don't know if there are any good MLB prospects this year in the draft, but if there are I think we should consider taking a guy with our first pick.

Patrick Willis from Mississippi St. and Buster Davis from FSU. We could probably draft one of them with our second round pick.

They'd just play special teams until week 15 or 16

Yeah, GW won't start a rookie and we already used thour second round pick for 2007 on a LB. And it took untill week 16 for him to get a start!

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:20 am

Irn-Bru wrote:I understand -- I was only making a joke.
The rule is part black-and-white and part judgment call.

BIGOT ALERT! BIGOT ALERT! (Klaxon sounds in distance, small children huddle underneath desks in schools, regularly-scheduled television programming interrupted by Emergency Broadcast System tests)

ROTFALMAO

Anyhoo....
I have a sickening feeling in the pit of my stomach that says people surnamed "Posey" and "Spikes" will be here next year. It ain't broke that bad that we need to patch it up with another teams headaches.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:45 am

SkinzCanes wrote:
I don't know if there are any good MLB prospects this year in the draft, but if there are I think we should consider taking a guy with our first pick.

Patrick Willis from Mississippi St. and Buster Davis from FSU. We could probably draft one of them with our second round pick.

No 2nd.

1st, 5th, 6th, 7th. Only.

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:12 am

PulpExposure wrote:
SkinzCanes wrote:
I don't know if there are any good MLB prospects this year in the draft, but if there are I think we should consider taking a guy with our first pick.

Patrick Willis from Mississippi St. and Buster Davis from FSU. We could probably draft one of them with our second round pick.

No 2nd.

1st, 5th, 6th, 7th. Only.

Ah, but if we trade our first round pick for somebody else's second round pick (straight swap, obviously - don't want to overcharge them), then we'll have a second round pick - so there. I should get a job in the Redskins' front office.

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:16 am

I have difficulty calling a man who regularly produces top 10 defences as "pathetic". Arrogant might be right (I don't know the man), but that wouldn't be a fault anyway in an NFL coach.
There are valid arguments to be made that Williams has made poor personnel decisions on defence, but those arguments would be better made without childish namecalling.

As for our linebackers, I'm coming to the opinion that Marshall played well above himself last year, and has now found his true level. A quality back-up outside linebacker is what he should be on our defence, but no more, in my opinion.

Washington has struggled with injury this year, and cannot carry a whole linebacking corp on his shoulders.

Holdman would be better employed somewhere else, and I'm really hoping that McIntosh gets his chance next year, and is able to take it.

A leader at middle linebacker would be a big improvement (no point in crying over Pierce now), but I don't see any rookie middle linebacker making that much of an impression in this defence or for this coach. So, can we get a reasonably priced impact linebacker in free agency?

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:23 am

UK Skins Fan wrote:I have difficulty calling a man who regularly produces top 10 defences as "pathetic". Arrogant might be right (I don't know the man), but that wouldn't be a fault anyway in an NFL coach.

There are valid arguments to be made that Williams has made poor personnel decisions on defence, but those arguments would be better made without childish namecalling.

I'm with you on this one. . .the man has one bad year in Washington and all of the sudden it's as if he has a track record of terrible defenses -- or, alternatively, that things were good in D.C. until he showed up, at which point in time things got progressively worse. It's a suspicious interpretation of history, in my opinion.

This season in Washington is the perfect example of what has happened in the last 10 years. When things go south, two things are said simultaneously: (1) We have too many free-agent acquisitions and too many coaching changes, and simply not enough consistency with our roster; and (2) Fire everyone -- this is pathetic!

](*,)

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:32 am

Agreed. But then I read an article like this one:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/26/AR2006122600799.html

There are a lot of unemployed defensive coordinators out there who were fired after much better seasons than the one the Redskins have had this year. Two things would keep Williams employed in Washington next year: Gibbs' loyalty, and Williams' reputation.

Without his previous reputation, and with any other head coach at the helm, I could easily see Williams being fired this offseason. Certainly, if he does come back next year, I don't expect him to have any margin for error. Not only has this season been disappointing for the defence, it's been unremittingly awful, a full blown collapse.

SkinzCanes · Post by **SkinzCanes** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:39 pm

I'm with you on this one. . .the man has one bad year in Washington and all of the sudden it's as if he has a track record of terrible defenses -- or, alternatively, that things were good in D.C. until he showed up, at which point in time things got progressively worse. It's a suspicious interpretation of history, in my opinion.

This season in Washington is the perfect example of what has happened in the last 10 years. When things go south, two things are said simultaneously: (1) We have too many free-agent acquisitions and too many coaching changes, and simply not enough consistency with our roster; and (2) Fire everyone -- this is pathetic!

It's not just this season though. When Williams first came here he mostly used the players that were already here to field a top 5 defense. Since then, as he has had more imput into the personnel decisions, the defense has gotten worse each season. Looking back now his track record with personnel has been very poor. Look at his tenure in Buffalo and in his third year (season he was fired) there were similar claims of him being too arrogant. He lost his players in Buffalo by that third season and it looks like he has lost atleast some of his players here.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:16 pm

I say we start a grass roots social and HFL fan uprising to get rid of the salary cap system. Who invented it? and Why do we need parity? It makes the Hognostications a hell of a lot more difficult anyways!!! :evil:

I say, we demand a recall of that absurd system. Only people that wish to spend limitless amount of silly money on quasi-fantasy teams need apply as owners from now on.

redskinz4ever · Post by **redskinz4ever** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:28 pm

tackling is the biggest problem with our defense along with sub par talent.