Seven in a row or we don't go!

[redskingush]

7 in a row and HOPE we go, 10-6 might be tough this year.

[ii7-V7]

chaddukes, you must still be watching old film of Brunell in Jacksonville 10 years ago, he's terrible. As someone here has already stated, Brunell won't lose a game for you but he won't win either.

What is Brunell supposed to do other than to execute the gameplan? The gameplan is to get the ball inot the hands of Moss, Portis and ARE....and they are getting the ball! But, other than ARE, they aren't doing anything with it. Moss's YPC is down this year. He has 3 TD's all in one game. There are 24 RB's and 1 QB who have more rushing yards than Portis. Our sack leader is Washington with 1.5 sacks. The only DB with an interception is Kenny Wright. Why is Brunell pounced upon but all these other guys are granted immunity?

Would I rather have Peyton Manning at the helm? Sure! Would I like to see Campbell get some playing time? Yes! Are we 3-6 because of Brunell? No! We are 3-6 because the Defense has fallen apart, because our star RB is too banged up to play, because the line can't keep pressure off of Brunell and can't open running lanes, because we don't have a single player with multiple sacks.

I don't henestly think that we have a shot this year. Even if we run the table we have lost too many conference games. Plus our schedule is just too difficult and our team is just not playing well.

But, its telling that when someone tries to post something positive all that the crowd seems to want to do is bash the QB and the coach; the same QB and coach that got us to the playoffs and even a playoff road win!

We aren't winning because there are too many changes and too many injuries......but its not because of Brunell.

[Chris Luva Luva]

What is Brunell supposed to do other than to execute the gameplan? The gameplan is to get the ball inot the hands of Moss, Portis and ARE....and they are getting the ball! But, other than ARE, they aren't doing anything with it. Moss's YPC is down this year. He has 3 TD's all in one game. There are 24 RB's and 1 QB who have more rushing yards than Portis. Our sack leader is Washington with 1.5 sacks. The only DB with an interception is Kenny Wright. Why is Brunell pounced upon but all these other guys are granted immunity?

I guess you didnt see the interception that broke the teams back?
Did you see MB force a pass to Moss in triple coverage?
Did you see MB throw a pass to Lloyd into the stands?
Or another pass to Lloyd over his head?
Or the pass to Lloyd for a 3rd down conversion that was throw behind him?
Did you see MB scrambling when there wasn't any pressure?

Our defense could have held Philly to 0 points and 50000 sacks and we still would have lost because our offense couldn't score and MB scored a TD for the Eagles.

[redskins-28]

It's not 100% Brunell's fault, but he is a major factor. He can't throw the long ball accurately, he rarely throws over the middle (because he doesn't have the arm strength), he's not mobile, he doesn't read the field and defense (he looks for one receiver only), he's no threat to any defense (and they know that). Watch other games with great QB's such as Brady and the Pats, Manning and the Colts, Farve and the Packers..... and you will see a QB that disects a defense, that is a true threat, that is continuosly looking at ALL of his receivers and gets the ball to them quickly and accurately. We don't have any of that with Brunell, we throw screen passes 90% of the time, and you know why that is the play that is called? Because of all the reasons I just gave you..... Brunell can't play at the level of these other QBs so you have a "vanilla" game plan with no big plays, no running game, nothing. Without a passing threat you have no running game.

Every defense in the league knows that Brunell is not mobile, doesn't have a strong arm and throws screens 90% of the time. Knowing that, any team can kill our offense, it's the same type of thing with the Cowboys and Bledsoe, pressure him and he falls apart. Pressure Brunell and he falls apart, he can't run and won't take a hit, he'll throw it away 9 out of 10 times. As much as I hate the Cowboys, I give credit where it's due, they went to Romo and they look like a new team. We got lucky and beat them, I was at the Cowboys game and saw it first hand, we won purely on luck...... I'll take it any day, but we didn't look good at all, especially Brunell. You can't blame Saunders for his play calling when you give him a QB like Brunell to run his plays, he is very limited in the plays that he can call..... about 5 pages of that BIG play book. I will also agree that our offense line isn't playing as well as they should.... be then you need a mobile QB, which we don't have.

[ii7-V7]

What is Brunell supposed to do other than to execute the gameplan? The gameplan is to get the ball inot the hands of Moss, Portis and ARE....and they are getting the ball! But, other than ARE, they aren't doing anything with it. Moss's YPC is down this year. He has 3 TD's all in one game. There are 24 RB's and 1 QB who have more rushing yards than Portis. Our sack leader is Washington with 1.5 sacks. The only DB with an interception is Kenny Wright. Why is Brunell pounced upon but all these other guys are granted immunity?

I guess you didnt see the interception that broke the teams back?
Did you see MB force a pass to Moss in triple coverage?
Did you see MB throw a pass to Lloyd into the stands?
Or another pass to Lloyd over his head?
Or the pass to Lloyd for a 3rd down conversion that was throw behind him?
Did you see MB scrambling when there wasn't any pressure?

Our defense could have held Philly to 0 points and 50000 sacks and we still would have lost because our offense couldn't score and MB scored a TD for the Eagles.

I saw it all. Only 4 starting QB's have less Interceptions than Brunell. The man made a mistake and the other team capitalized on it. Would you rather have Kitna who has 11 interceptions? Eli Manning who has 11? Roethlisbergr who has 14? Remember he won a superbowl last year?!?! Did he make a few bad throws....in a rainstorm? Sure....you can pick on the mans every mistake.....but be equitable about it and pick on the whole team.

I'm not a huge Brunell fan.....I know you guys don't believe that. I'd rather see Campbell play. But the criticism that he gets when the rest of the teams stinks as well is ridiculous. And I stand by my statement that he is one of the few consistent players on the team. He isn't Carson Palmer, but he isn't expected to be. He is accurate....usually....and he doesn't make mistakes. He follows a gameplan and puts the ball into the hands of the playmakers. The playmakers haven't stepped up this year.

[Mursilis]

But, its telling that when someone tries to post something positive all that the crowd seems to want to do is bash the QB and the coach; the same QB and coach that got us to the playoffs and even a playoff road win!

You're giving credit for the Tampa win to Brunell?!?



He was 7/15, 41 yrds(!), 0 TDs, 1 INT that game!! His passer rating was 25! He set the record for the lowest yards by a winning QB in a playoff game ever! Just like the rest of that year, the team carried Mark Brunell for that game. We won despite him, not because of him.

[ii7-V7]

It's not 100% Brunell's fault, but he is a major factor. He can't throw the long ball accurately, he rarely throws over the middle (because he doesn't have the arm strength), he's not mobile, he doesn't read the field and defense (he looks for one receiver only), he's no threat to any defense (and they know that). Watch other games with great QB's such as Brady and the Pats, Manning and the Colts, Farve and the Packers..... and you will see a QB that disects a defense, that is a true threat, that is continuosly looking at ALL of his receivers and gets the ball to them quickly and accurately. We don't have any of that with Brunell, we throw screen passes 90% of the time, and you know why that is the play that is called? Because of all the reasons I just gave you..... Brunell can't play at the level of these other QBs so you have a "vanilla" game plan with no big plays, no running game, nothing. Without a passing threat you have no running game.

Every defense in the league knows that Brunell is not mobile, doesn't have a strong arm and throws screens 90% of the time. Knowing that, any team can kill our offense, it's the same type of thing with the Cowboys and Bledsoe, pressure him and he falls apart. Pressure Brunell and he falls apart, he can't run and won't take a hit, he'll throw it away 9 out of 10 times. As much as I hate the Cowboys, I give credit where it's due, they went to Romo and they look like a new team. We got lucky and beat them, I was at the Cowboys game and saw it first hand, we won purely on luck...... I'll take it any day, but we didn't look good at all, especially Brunell. You can't blame Saunders for his play calling when you give him a QB like Brunell to run his plays, he is very limited in the plays that he can call..... about 5 pages of that BIG play book. I will also agree that our offense line isn't playing as well as they should.... be then you need a mobile QB, which we don't have.

You're talking about Hall of Fame QB's......most teams don't have them! And its not like we have one on the bench and Gibbs just refuses to play him! Campbell might be an incredible QB down the road.....but he isn't now. The coaches and the players don't think that he is ready. If they did, he would be playing!

[ii7-V7]

But, its telling that when someone tries to post something positive all that the crowd seems to want to do is bash the QB and the coach; the same QB and coach that got us to the playoffs and even a playoff road win!

You're giving credit for the Tampa win to Brunell?!?



He was 7/15, 41 yrds(!), 0 TDs, 1 INT that game!! His passer rating was 25! He set the record for the lowest yards by a winning QB in a playoff game ever! Just like the rest of that year, the team carried Mark Brunell for that game. We won despite him, not because of him.

Agreed, he was horrible in that game. But his 3000 yard of passing and 23 touchdowns got us there. He was injured for the Philly game and the TB playoff game. We definetly won that game despite him, but I disagree that the team carried him for the whole season.

What do you people want? Peyton Manning? There just aren't that many HOF quarterbacks to go around! He's the best that we have! He is the best that we have had in a while.............

And if you want to bash him for playing conservative ball......then blame Gibbs and Saunders.

[Mursilis]

You're talking about Hall of Fame QB's......most teams don't have them! And its not like we have one on the bench and Gibbs just refuses to play him! Campbell might be an incredible QB down the road.....but he isn't now. The coaches and the players don't think that he is ready. If they did, he would be playing!

And that's exactly why Brunell catches so much heat - he's the only problem we can POSSIBLY fix right now, by playing Campbell. You say Campbell isn't ready now, but how do we know? No one, including the coaching staff, is giving him a shot, which I could accept if we hadn't spent three picks to get him, but since we did, we might as well answer the question - is he any good? What are we gaining by sticking with Brunell? And this question of being 'ready' has been beaten to death on this board. Didn't we see a rookie QB beat Mr. Supersmart Veteran Brunell in the Titans game? During that game Sonny Jergunson said multiple times on the radio that that's how you get a QB ready - you PLAY him.

[SkinsFreak]

chaddukes, you must still be watching old film of Brunell in Jacksonville 10 years ago, he's terrible. As someone here has already stated, Brunell won't lose a game for you but he won't win either.

What is Brunell supposed to do other than to execute the gameplan? The gameplan is to get the ball inot the hands of Moss, Portis and ARE....and they are getting the ball! But, other than ARE, they aren't doing anything with it. Moss's YPC is down this year. He has 3 TD's all in one game. There are 24 RB's and 1 QB who have more rushing yards than Portis. Our sack leader is Washington with 1.5 sacks. The only DB with an interception is Kenny Wright. Why is Brunell pounced upon but all these other guys are granted immunity?

Would I rather have Peyton Manning at the helm? Sure! Would I like to see Campbell get some playing time? Yes! Are we 3-6 because of Brunell? No! We are 3-6 because the Defense has fallen apart, because our star RB is too banged up to play, because the line can't keep pressure off of Brunell and can't open running lanes, because we don't have a single player with multiple sacks.

I don't henestly think that we have a shot this year. Even if we run the table we have lost too many conference games. Plus our schedule is just too difficult and our team is just not playing well.

But, its telling that when someone tries to post something positive all that the crowd seems to want to do is bash the QB and the coach; the same QB and coach that got us to the playoffs and even a playoff road win!

We aren't winning because there are too many changes and too many injuries......but its not because of Brunell.

Sorry, but I beg to differ.

Take the Colts for example. Their defense is horrible. But guess what, Peyton finds a way to win games, consistantly.

Being conservative and reserved (like throwing the ball away all the time without giving a receiver a chance to make a play) does not win games. The QB is the leader and the identity of the offense, if not the whole team, and needs to take risks to win games. QB's like Peyton or Brady throw interceptions too, but that number is offset by the risk / reward benefits of their playability and leadership.

In my opinion, the whole team is down and unmotivated by the mere fact that Gibbs is sticking with Brunell. One switch could change the whole perspective on the rest of the year and next year. I know it would for me. There would be some optimism if Campbell were to start. Not saying that he will win every game, but I can't even get excited at this point knowing that Brunell is starting.

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

Get on the bandwagon!

I still believe!!!

Unlike other "fans" (yes, the quote thing is BACK, baby!!), I'm not counting my team out, however dificult the road might be.

I'm with ya!!!!



Beat the Sucs!!!!

[Justice Hog]

at Bucs: win
Panthers: loss
Falcons: loss
Eagles: loss
at Saints: loss
at Rams: win
Giants: loss

Taking a very realistic approach, I don't think there is any way in hell this team can win 7 in a row. If anyone really thinks we can, I would love to take a hit off the crack pipe they're smoking! Then again, I don't do crack - so just pass me the Jameson instead!

Looking at our remaining schedule, I think the Skins are gonna end up with a record of 5-11 this year.

Like many of you, I truly think it's time to put Jason Campbell in. I wonder when Gibbs will feel the same, if ever.

Pathetic.

[ii7-V7]

Being conservative and reserved (like throwing the ball away all the time without giving a receiver a chance to make a play) does not win games.

In my opinion, the whole team is down and unmotivated by the mere fact that Gibbs is sticking with Brunell.

Welcome to Joe Gibbs ball! Conservative ball-control offense and aggresive Defense! For 8 of the 12 years of Gibbs first tenure this is exactly what you got. It wasn't until the end of his run....when our team simply outclassed the competition....that he really started having an aggressive passing game.

As for the players being depressed about the QB situation, they have stated that they don't think that Campbell is ready. So, that theory is out the window. I agree that the team doesn't look motivated. But I think it has more to do with letting go Ryan Clark and Antonio Peirce than it does keeping MB in the game.

[Mursilis]

In my opinion, the whole team is down and unmotivated by the mere fact that Gibbs is sticking with Brunell. One switch could change the whole perspective on the rest of the year and next year. I know it would for me. There would be some optimism if Campbell were to start. Not saying that he will win every game, but I can't even get excited at this point knowing that Brunell is starting.

Exactly - the decision to stick with Brunell (more importantly, the decision not to give JC a shot), when it hasn't worked so far, is just 2004 all over again, when a great defensive effort (No. 3 ranked defense) was wasted by a stubborn coach more determined to 'prove' veteran QBs were better than to win games. Even Gibbs has admitted he waited too long to pull Brunell in '04, yet he's doing it all over again. If the coach is determined to stick with losing, and not give a young player even a slight shot, why should the rest of the team try hard, and risk injury, for nothing? There's definitely a leadership void on this team.

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

at Bucs: win
Panthers: loss
Falcons: loss
Eagles: loss
at Saints: loss
at Rams: win
Giants: loss

JH, are you seriously believing that the Skins won't win anymore games at home?????

That's insane!!!

Granted, with people selling their tickets, the HFA might not be as strong, but with some home cooking (as we saw vs. the pukes) there is NO WAY these teams will roll over the Skins.

I don't see it. And, not I'm not looking into my crystal ball.

Coming from someone fan enough to get dream seats, this seems irrational. What's next, JH wearing a bag over his head to get on the jumbotron? Bro, it ain't the time to jump off the ledge.

[ii7-V7]

at Bucs: win
Panthers: loss
Falcons: loss
Eagles: loss
at Saints: loss
at Rams: win
Giants: loss

Taking a very realistic approach, I don't think there is any way in hell this team can win 7 in a row. If anyone really thinks we can, I would love to take a hit off the crack pipe they're smoking! Then again, I don't do crack - so just pass me the Jameson instead!

Looking at our remaining schedule, I think the Skins are gonna end up with a record of 5-11 this year.

Like many of you, I truly think it's time to put Jason Campbell in. I wonder when Gibbs will feel the same, if ever.

Pathetic.

I didn't think that we would win five in a row last year but we did. It took everything out of us, but we did. This team doesn't seem to have the same character or swagger to do that. Given how tough our schedule is.....7 games is pretty much an impossibility. But Gibbs won't give up on Brunell until we are mathematically eliminated. If at that point he still doesn't put Campbell in....then I'll start agreeing with you guys!

I'm really interested to see how it plays out though! When will we see Campbell? What will The Danny have to say if we do go 5-11? What is going to happen to GW and his Defense if we stay the 30th ranked D this year? Will there be personnel grumbling...will a big name get "Coles'ed" this year.....or should it be "Arrington'ed?"

[ii7-V7]

In my opinion, the whole team is down and unmotivated by the mere fact that Gibbs is sticking with Brunell. One switch could change the whole perspective on the rest of the year and next year. I know it would for me. There would be some optimism if Campbell were to start. Not saying that he will win every game, but I can't even get excited at this point knowing that Brunell is starting.

Exactly - the decision to stick with Brunell (more importantly, the decision not to give JC a shot), when it hasn't worked so far, is just 2004 all over again, when a great defensive effort (No. 3 ranked defense) was wasted by a stubborn coach more determined to 'prove' veteran QBs were better than to win games. Even Gibbs has admitted he waited too long to pull Brunell in '04, yet he's doing it all over again. If the coach is determined to stick with losing, and not give a young player even a slight shot, why should the rest of the team try hard, and risk injury, for nothing? There's definitely a leadership void on this team.

This is not even the same thing. We don't have a number 3 Defense. We don't have Ramsey on the bench. We have a number 30 ranked Defense and a rookie on the bench. We have a new and very complicated offense that even the vet is struggling with.

By your estimation we should have given the reins to Campbell in week 3 and let him take over a team with playoff expectations, and a brand new system.

Was I the only one who heard Mike Sellers say that Campbell wasn't ready? What did Brandon Lloyd say about the situation?

[Mursilis]

Being conservative and reserved (like throwing the ball away all the time without giving a receiver a chance to make a play) does not win games.

In my opinion, the whole team is down and unmotivated by the mere fact that Gibbs is sticking with Brunell.

Welcome to Joe Gibbs ball! Conservative ball-control offense and aggresive Defense! For 8 of the 12 years of Gibbs first tenure this is exactly what you got. It wasn't until the end of his run....when our team simply outclassed the competition....that he really started having an aggressive passing game.

You need to review your Gibbs 1.0 history, especially the early years. Part of the reason the run worked so well back then was because they were averaging over 200+ yards/game passing, and the receivers had to be respected. The old 'skins used the run to set up the pass. Under Gibbs, Joey T. beat out Brunell's passing yards last season every year but two - the strike year (82) and the year he was injured (85).

[SkinsFreak]

Being conservative and reserved (like throwing the ball away all the time without giving a receiver a chance to make a play) does not win games.

In my opinion, the whole team is down and unmotivated by the mere fact that Gibbs is sticking with Brunell.

Welcome to Joe Gibbs ball! Conservative ball-control offense and aggresive Defense! For 8 of the 12 years of Gibbs first tenure this is exactly what you got. It wasn't until the end of his run....when our team simply outclassed the competition....that he really started having an aggressive passing game.

As for the players being depressed about the QB situation, they have stated that they don't think that Campbell is ready. So, that theory is out the window. I agree that the team doesn't look motivated. But I think it has more to do with letting go Ryan Clark and Antonio Peirce than it does keeping MB in the game.

Throwing the ball away is not "conservative ball control". Making 1st downs is. Gibbs might have a "run first" philosophy, but his offense is not the same as "Marty ball". Although, did you see Rivers yesterday?

Do you see Peyton or Brady do that all the time?

And you are right, at the end of Gibbs first tenure, he did open up the offense with aggressive passing. Why? Because the NFL evolves. Passing opens up the run game and vice-versa. Must have balance. There is currently no balance in our offense.

I was able to predict every 3rd down play yesterday. A swing pass in the flat to a running back or a throw to a tripled covered Moss. Brunell's inabilities make oposing defense's job easy.

[Redskin in Canada]

Seven-in-a-row or we don't go?

I have written an answer with a bit of an explanation WHY ahead of it HERE. It is a bit too long to explain in this thread.

[Mursilis]

In my opinion, the whole team is down and unmotivated by the mere fact that Gibbs is sticking with Brunell. One switch could change the whole perspective on the rest of the year and next year. I know it would for me. There would be some optimism if Campbell were to start. Not saying that he will win every game, but I can't even get excited at this point knowing that Brunell is starting.

Exactly - the decision to stick with Brunell (more importantly, the decision not to give JC a shot), when it hasn't worked so far, is just 2004 all over again, when a great defensive effort (No. 3 ranked defense) was wasted by a stubborn coach more determined to 'prove' veteran QBs were better than to win games. Even Gibbs has admitted he waited too long to pull Brunell in '04, yet he's doing it all over again. If the coach is determined to stick with losing, and not give a young player even a slight shot, why should the rest of the team try hard, and risk injury, for nothing? There's definitely a leadership void on this team.

This is not even the same thing. We don't have a number 3 Defense. We don't have Ramsey on the bench. We have a number 30 ranked Defense and a rookie on the bench. We have a new and very complicated offense that even the vet is struggling with.

By your estimation we should have given the reins to Campbell in week 3 and let him take over a team with playoff expectations, and a brand new system.

Was I the only one who heard Mike Sellers say that Campbell wasn't ready? What did Brandon Lloyd say about the situation?

Actually, by my estimation, we should've given the reins to Campbell in training camp (check out the Training Camp forum, where I was arguing we should've gone with JC back then). If, as some have said, the offense takes two years to learn, why were we wasting this year learning with Brunell, when we'd have to repeat the whole learning process with Campbell in '07? But everyone else said Brunell "gives us the best chance to win now", only we're not winning, AND we're denying JC valuable playing experience. It's losing now AND preparing to lose in the future. Typical Redskins these last few years.

[SkinsFreak]

Being conservative and reserved (like throwing the ball away all the time without giving a receiver a chance to make a play) does not win games.

In my opinion, the whole team is down and unmotivated by the mere fact that Gibbs is sticking with Brunell.

Welcome to Joe Gibbs ball! Conservative ball-control offense and aggresive Defense! For 8 of the 12 years of Gibbs first tenure this is exactly what you got. It wasn't until the end of his run....when our team simply outclassed the competition....that he really started having an aggressive passing game.

You need to review your Gibbs 1.0 history, especially the early years. Part of the reason the run worked so well back then was because they were averaging over 200+ yards/game passing, and the receivers had to be respected. The old 'skins used the run to set up the pass. Under Gibbs, Joey T. beat out Brunell's passing yards last season every year but two - the strike year (82) and the year he was injured (85).

That's exactly right.

Gibbs is a deciple of Don "Air" Coryell.

[ii7-V7]

You need to review your Gibbs 1.0 history, especially the early years.... Under Gibbs, Joey T. beat out Brunell's passing yards last season every year but two - the strike year (82) and the year he was injured (85).

And even then they were calling for Joey T.'s head!

I would take Thiesman over Brunell any day.

The old 'skins used the run to set up the pass.

Yes, and so did the 2005 redskins.....but the 2006 redskins can't seem to do that.

Part of the reason the run worked so well back then was because they were averaging over 200+ yards/game passing, and the receivers had to be respected. The old 'skins used the run to set up the pass.

Ok, which one was it? The Run game set up the pass or the other way around?

[KazooSkinsFan]

Being conservative and reserved (like throwing the ball away all the time without giving a receiver a chance to make a play) does not win games.

In my opinion, the whole team is down and unmotivated by the mere fact that Gibbs is sticking with Brunell.

Welcome to Joe Gibbs ball! Conservative ball-control offense and aggresive Defense! For 8 of the 12 years of Gibbs first tenure this is exactly what you got. It wasn't until the end of his run....when our team simply outclassed the competition....that he really started having an aggressive passing game.

You need to review your Gibbs 1.0 history, especially the early years. Part of the reason the run worked so well back then was because they were averaging over 200+ yards/game passing, and the receivers had to be respected. The old 'skins used the run to set up the pass. Under Gibbs, Joey T. beat out Brunell's passing yards last season every year but two - the strike year (82) and the year he was injured (85).

Right on, Mursilis. Gibbs didn't throw the ball until his later years? Joe T just handed off? The Fun Bunch was only at the end of his run? Your memory is consistent with mine. Or chaddukes is just too young to remember.

Some facts:

Redskin seasons coached (Superbowl era), assuming this year is a dud:

Joe Gibbs: 15
All others: 26

Superbowl appearances:

Joe Gibbs: 4
All others: 1

Superbowl victories:

Joe Gibbs: 3
All others: 0

Questioning anyone is cool. I just disagree with those who disrespect him or rewrite history and forget what he has done. He inherited a bad team and took them in his second year to the second round of the playoffs. OK, no doubt this year is a step back. But that means we dump him now?

And who will ever come here and coach when we dump those who have delivered so much so mercilessly? Isn't that the biggest criticizm of Snyder? He keeps churning the team? And that's what we WANT him to do now? I don't think so.

I sure wish he would stop playing Brunell though.

[SkinsFreak]

Ok, which one was it? The Run game set up the pass or the other way around?

It doesn't matter, it works both ways. The point is not to be one dimensional.