John Kerry is the worst American ever!!

ATV · Post by **ATV** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:11 pm

It doesn't matter how many medals Kerry earned, or how many years he's served in the Senate, or how many particular things he's specifically done for soldiers (such as being instrumental in pulling them out of a pointless war in Vietnam) - Right Wingers like yourself will always believe the man hates our troops. I'm certain of that. It just bothers me when you people try to misinform others. I guess if you just keep saying the same *sh$t* over and over again eventually some of it is going to sink in with some voters. Merely the fact that there is a loud contingent of people causes some to believe there is some sort of controversy, when in fact there should be none. The news and discussion is then consumed by debating about a pointless controversy. These are Rovian tactics - All that's needed is just a shred of doubt. It doesn't matter if wearing purple-heart bandaids is a classless act because many of the sheepish people you're trying to affect, frankly, don't know much about class to begin with. I'm dwelling.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:08 pm

It doesn't matter how many medals Kerry earned, or how many years he's served in the Senate, or how many particular things he's specifically done for soldiers (such as being instrumental in pulling them out of a pointless war in Vietnam) - Right Wingers like yourself will always believe the man hates our troops.

I'm going by his own statements over the years. I'm not pulling this stuff outta thin air ya know ...

I'm certain of that. It just bothers me when you people try to misinform others. I guess if you just keep saying the same *sh$t* over and over again eventually some of it is going to sink in with some voters.

Much like the Dems and the MSM refrain voer the past 3 years huh ??

Merely the fact that there is a loud contingent of people causes some to believe there is some sort of controversy, when in fact there should be none. The news and discussion is then consumed by debating about a pointless controversy. These are Rovian tactics - All that's needed is just a shred of doubt.

Actually that is the current politics being practiced on both sides of the aisle. What campaign were you just watching ??

It doesn't matter if wearing purple-heart bandaids is a classless act because many of the sheepish people you're trying to affect, frankly, don't know much about class to begin with. I'm dwelling.

Nice insult... I'll deny your gratuitous assertion however ...

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:10 pm

Kerry's quote from his speech of late October:

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq

Out of context? A joke gone awry? Believe what you want, but the words that came from Kerry's mouth were far from anything anything new...

Kerry's comments during his run for Congress, in 1972:

"I am convinced a volunteer army would be an army of the poor and the black and the brown," Kerry wrote. "We must not repeat the travesty of the inequities present during Vietnam. I also fear having a professional army that views the perpetuation of war crimes as simply 'doing its job.'

Context? What about that "apology". It was not an apology for his slur upon the military. It was an apology for our inability to understand his "joke".

He says it was a jab directed at President George Bush, but I heard him loud and clear. This was no misunderstood context or botched joke. Kerry meant exactly what he said — after all, he’s been saying the same thing for 35 years.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:09 pm

Thanks Countertrey - I was looking for that other quote.

That other quote not only slams the military - but its also racist if you look at the full quote. He basically went on to explain that this volunteer army that was mostly "black and brown" would have little oversight and there would be more of a propensity to commit crimes like what was committed in Vietnam.

Imagine for example if a Republican said that if we get more "black and brown" people into the military that it would be more susceptible to commit war crimes. The media would never stop hounding him until he resigned from public office. But its John Kerry and he's a Democrat... so its ok I guess to be racist as long as you have that all importand (D) beside your name.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:19 pm

Countertrey wrote:Kerry's quote from his speech of late October:
"You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq

Out of context? A joke gone awry? Believe what you want, but the words that came from Kerry's mouth were far from anything anything new...

Kerry's comments during his run for Congress, in 1972:
"I am convinced a volunteer army would be an army of the poor and the black and the brown," Kerry wrote. "We must not repeat the travesty of the inequities present during Vietnam. I also fear having a professional army that views the perpetuation of war crimes as simply 'doing its job.'

Context? What about that "apology". It was not an apology for his slur upon the military. It was an apology for our inability to understand his "joke".

He says it was a jab directed at President George Bush, but I heard him loud and clear. This was no misunderstood context or botched joke. Kerry meant exactly what he said — after all, he’s been saying the same thing for 35 years.

Hey CT,
Even if you take the first quote verbatim, how are these two quotes a slur upon the military? I still don't get it. Pointing out that poor people and drop-outs represent a majority of the volunteer military, is a slur? Fearing that perpetuation of war crimes be seen as simply the military "doing its job," is a slur? I don't see it that way. Now, voting to reduce benefits to veterans, and war widows, that's a slur on the military in my book.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:00 pm

Hey CT,
Even if you take the first quote verbatim, how are these two quotes a slur upon the military? I still don't get it. Pointing out that poor people and drop-outs represent a majority of the volunteer military, is a slur?

given that a large part of the military comes from more well-to-do families and that pretty much everyone has a H.S diploma (a higher % than the non-military population0 yeah, I'd say its a slur and an misrepresentation

Fearing that perpetuation of war crimes be seen as simply the military "doing its job," is a slur?

Nice of you to ignore Kerry's inference that because of the volunteer army that more black and brown people would be in the military and more crimes would be committed.

Be honest... if a Republican had said it, you and CH1 would be screaming "racist" at the top of your lungs ...

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:40 pm

thaiphoon wrote:
Hey CT,
Even if you take the first quote verbatim, how are these two quotes a slur upon the military? I still don't get it. Pointing out that poor people and drop-outs represent a majority of the volunteer military, is a slur?

given that a large part of the military comes from more well-to-do families and that pretty much everyone has a H.S diploma (a higher % than the non-military population0 yeah, I'd say its a slur and an misrepresentation

Fearing that perpetuation of war crimes be seen as simply the military "doing its job," is a slur?

Nice of you to ignore Kerry's inference that because of the volunteer army that more black and brown people would be in the military and more crimes would be committed.

Be honest... if a Republican had said it, you and CH1 would be screaming "racist" at the top of your lungs ...

If a Republican had said it, he would have been trying to scare his children into doing their homework.

Seriously dudes, let facts filter through the fog of war in your minds. Kerry left out the word US, as in If You Don't Study Hard and Learn, Get Us Stuck in Irag. He wasn' t talking about our troops, he was talking to our lame duch President.

ATV · Post by **ATV** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:42 pm

.....Here comes the broken taiphoon. Whups, I mean record.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:31 pm

Seriously dudes, let facts filter through the fog of war in your minds. Kerry left out the word US, as in If You Don't Study Hard and Learn, Get Us Stuck in Irag. He wasn' t talking about our troops, he was talking to our lame duch President.

CH1 - as much as I can respect your attemtps at damage control, we're not talking about what he should have said, but what he actually said. :roll:

And thank you ATV

ATV · Post by **ATV** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:47 pm

So our politicians should always be taken liberally?

Excellent!

What do you say we start putting some food on our families?

http://www.slate.com/id/76886/

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:02 pm

Thank you ATV !!! I was hoping you'd bring this up. Bush was supposedly the stupid one and Kerry was the "smart" one correct ?? Looks like both are pretty dumb by your standards.

Again...Kerry's "flub" would be easier to explain away if he didn't already have a decades-old track record of demeaning the military.

ATV · Post by **ATV** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:14 pm

You were hoping I'd bring up the hundreds of verbal goofs made by Bush?

No, I recognize these for what they are, ramblings by an inarticulate buffoon. That's simply why Kerry's slip surprised so many - He's usually more articulate than that.

"Kerry's "flub" would be easier to explain away if he didn't already have a decades-old track record of demeaning the military."

Kerry WAS or IS the military. Again, I've read NOTHING that suggests he's ever demeaned the military, including EVERYTHING you've quoted.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:15 am

Pointing out that poor people and drop-outs represent a majority of the volunteer military, is a slur?

In light of the fact that it simply isn't true? Yes. Put the picture, the sum total of his "statements" together, and you determine that Kerry is either the most gaffe prone military supporter in the history of the world, or, the more likely explaination... he just hates the military, and has no problem at all in slandering, smearing, and slighting them, truth be damned.

The military gets it. Why don't you?

Oh!

Kerry WAS or IS the military. Again, I've read NOTHING that suggests he's ever demeaned the military, including EVERYTHING you've quoted.

Huh! So was (and am) I... for FAR longer than Kerry was... and because I wanted to be... not because I was attempting to build a resume for political office. That now famous banner constructed by Minnesota National Guardsmen serving in Iraq is actually quite representative of what the serving military thinks of Senator Gaffemaster.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:25 am

Again, I've read NOTHING that suggests he's ever demeaned the military, including EVERYTHING you've quoted.

Then you either have read nothing or you just refuse to see it.

His testimony before the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971 basically launched his public career. Go back and read the transcripts. He portrayed American soldiers as murderers, rapists and torturers who "raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."

Yeah...sure sounds like he's never demeaned the military. :roll:

Yup... sure sounds like he's a stand-up guy who you'd want in the position next to you. [-X

Yeah, righttttttt....

I've talked to my brother (who holds 3 degrees including a Masters in Chemistry) about this. He's currently the 1rst Sgt. in his unit. He tells me that many of the troops he knows are extremely pissed and offended by Kerry's comments. Kerry's sneering elitist DYKWIA (Do You Know Who I Am?) act has finally run its course. He can forget about 2008. He's never going to be President now.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:31 am

BTW- Kerry is still an apology behind. His non-apology doesn't count as an apology.

ATV · Post by **ATV** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:05 am

"raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."

Yes, sure, take this one for example. Here he was testifying before Congress concerning atrocities in Vietnam. These are the stories that he had seen and/or heard. Again, So what? You don't think atrocities happen in war? Take a look at this....

http://www.aztlan.net/iraqi_women_raped.htm

and this....

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl? ... /29/153242

and this....

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=5529884

In less that ten seconds I was able to find three stories of atrocities comitted by our troops in the current war. How many more are there that I didn't list? Or better yet, how many more have happened that will never make the news?

Kerry, a decorated soldier, testifies before Congress in attempt to shed light on crimes against humanity and you call this demeaning? WTF?! Maybe YOU'RE the "Worst American Ever".

Dangerfield · Post by **Dangerfield** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:21 am

thaiphoon wrote:Again...Kerry's "flub" would be easier to explain away if he didn't already have a decades-old track record of demeaning the military.

This man (John Kerry) owes no explanation to you or any of the other vultures that would try to demean his combat missions and time served in Vietnam.

How can you doubt John Kerry's appreciation of the "Enlisted Man". He has a record of leading them and volunteering to be one of them.

To quote Chris Farley:

When you buy a T-bone, do you want to actually stick your head up the cow's ass, or would you rather take the butcher's word for it?

Have you served, and if you have, how can you question J. Kerry's devotion to our Soldiers, Sailors and Marines?

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:25 am

When did I ever say they never happen?? These are isolated incidences and not indicative of the military as a whole.

Kerry, a decorated soldier, testifies before Congress in attempt to shed light on crimes against humanity and you call this demeaning? WTF?! Maybe YOU'RE the "Worst American Ever".

He was applying the brush to all of the troops. Not just any particular incidents. Read a bit more of Kerry's history my friend. He made sweeping and unsubstantiated accusations (against the soldiers in Vietnam) of widespread atrocities back in the 1970s.

Another quote to put the earlier quote in context... he said that the;

"war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command"

He criticized them at home and abroad, giving aid and comfort to our enemies in wartime.

You and Dangerfield seem to want to retreat back to the familiar that since he served in the military we can't criticize him for demeaning the military. This is BS. Military service does not confer lifetime immunity from criticism for what you do afterwards. Benedict Arnold was a military hero during the Revolutionary War before changing his mind during the middle of the war -- just as Kerry has supposedly changed his mind on the war in Iraq — and no one has claimed that Benedict Arnold's earlier military service made him exempt from criticism. Or do you ??

ATV · Post by **ATV** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:30 am

Ok, here we go again.....

"war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command"

.....Um, yea, and? Is this is it? This demonstrates that Kerry is demeaning to our troops? I don't get it. Hello?

Dangerfield · Post by **Dangerfield** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am

I'm not "retreating" back to any argument Jack....

I still want to know...have you served?

Until you answer this question, you should not be talking about John Kerry's intentions just because you can quote his detractors......

Answer the question, then I'll know where you are coming from.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:47 pm

.....Um, yea, and? Is this is it? This demonstrates that Kerry is demeaning to our troops? I don't get it. Hello?

Thats right...you don't get it.

And that is why you fail to understand just how pissed our servicemembers are at Kerry. After talking with numerous current soldiers I can tell you that to a man (and woman) they do not respect the man because of what he has said.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:53 pm

Dangerfield said;

Have you served, and if you have, how can you question J. Kerry's devotion to our Soldiers, Sailors and Marines?

And this gem...

I'm not "retreating" back to any argument Jack....

and this one...

Until you answer this question, you should not be talking about John Kerry's intentions just because you can quote his detractors......

Your argument is that noone should question his devotion to our servicemembers because of his military record. I have quite rightly shown why this is an absurd argument.

Let me show you why...

Have you ever been a politician? If not, how can you criticize politicans in congress?

Have you ever been a cop? If not, how can you talk about issues of law and order? How can you talk about what is a "good cop" and what a "bad cop" is??

Like I said... serving in the military gives noone a free pass to demean people who have served or are currently serving. John Kerry's entire political career was launched when he did that very thing.

ATV · Post by **ATV** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:07 pm

"I can tell you that to a man (and woman) they do not respect the man because of what he has said"

Well, your going to find unintelligent people in all facets of our society, and the enlisted ranks are no exception. When you have a 24-hour "news" service like Fox out there, I'm not surprised that there would be quite a few people that buy into their filth.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:41 pm

"I can tell you that to a man (and woman) they do not respect the man because of what he has said"

Well, your going to find unintelligent people in all facets of our society, and the enlisted ranks are no exception. When you have a 24-hour "news" service like Fox out there, I'm not surprised that there would be quite a few people that buy into their filth.

Gee- even you are furthering the myth with the stereotype. The guys I've talked to all have HS diplomas. Most have college degrees. My brother has a Masters in Chemistry for cryin' out loud. Oh yeah ... none are officers.

90% of the men and women in the military have a HS diploma vs. around 75% of those in the rest of the US population.

Source;

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Dec2005 ... thfact.pdf

Now you didn't address your comments about the officer corps but I'll include it anyway...

In 2004, the Heritage Foundation discovered,

"92.1 percent of active-duty officer accessions held baccalaureate degrees or higher."

Census Bureau data show that only 25.2 percent of civilians age 18 and over hold such degrees.

Sources;

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Nation ... a06-09.cfm

http://www.census.gov/population/socdem ... b01-01.xls

Don't think the troops disrespect Kerry??

After he said it a unit from Minnesota (attempting to poke fun at his insult about their intelligence) held up a sign that said;

"HALP US JON CARRY-WE R STUCK [backwards k] HEAR N IRAK."

ATV · Post by **ATV** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:54 pm

"90% of the men and women in the military have a HS diploma"

Wow. I stand corrected.