Gibbs on JC

[dnpmakkah]

Two things:

Last year, we only had one loss that was really a blowout (at New York) while the rest were winnable. This year, we already have three significant losses (at Dallas, at New York, at Indianapolis).

Second, last year, we had a fantastic record against the NFC, and only Tampa Bay held the tiebreaker over us. This year, we have already lost the tiebreaker to Minnesota and are incredibly close to losing it to New York and Dallas. In fact, if New York beat Dallas tonight, they will gain the tiebreaker over us.

The point is, last year, we were a "good" 5-6, because we were still 5-2 against the NFC and 2-1 against the NFC East. This year, we are a "bad" 2-5 because we are 0-3 against the NFC and 0-2 against the NFC East. There isn't really a comparison between 2005 and 2006.

Yes, we still have a chance of making the playoffs this season, and I understand not wanting to give up on those chances, however small they might be. But at some point, we need to ask ourselves when not giving up on this season is in some way giving up on next season by not getting Campbell work that will really help him.

Please stop making sense...it might be hard for some to accept.

[Irn-Bru]

Secondly, it is fairly obvious that anyone on this board who speaks out against Gibbbs, the Redskins, or Brunell gets smacked left and right. If you say "let's have a go with Brunell for a few more weeks" I could care less. However, if I say "we should play Campbell" someone will come in here and say "you're dumb, that's not going to solve anything.....wahhhh cry wahhh"

Are you serious?
(1) Of course it will seem like you catch more heat since you are the one experiencing it. Try supporting Brunell on this board. . .it isn't as easy as you might think.
(2) If you came in and said "play Campbell" that would be one thing. . .I don't think you'd catch much crap at all. . .especially nowadays.

However, the reason I called you out is because of all of the calls to "wake up" (as if I'm asleep to reality), as well as the descritpions of Gibbs / Brunell supporters that continually pepper your posts.

(3) I'm sure that's how people respond to you when you come in so innocently and say "play Campbell." I've read about 98% of the exchanges on this board, and your description doesn't sound much like anything that happens here.


You may come back and say that you were kidding or using hyperbole or whatever, but your post above is my proof that you're coming to the debate heated and ready to plow over anyone who disagrees with you. It'd be one thing if you only used the logic / argumentation that I see in your posts (it's definitely there), but it's the "wake up and see that you're 100% wrong!" attitude that I could live without. Whatever, it's your choice as a poster.


As for Campbell, I agree with your sentiments, but I also want to point out that 1 or 2 games now won't make a huge difference in Campbell's development. If he takes over when we're 3-8, it won't be that different than taking over at 2-6 (in my opinion). Until our playoff chances are dead, it seems best to play the QB that gives you the best chance to win.

I know that it can be argued that Campbell is that man, but the coaches seem to think that it's still Brunell, and there's good reason to think that Brunell is our best shot while the playoff hope is still (barely) alive.

[Steve Spurrier III]

As for Campbell, I agree with your sentiments, but I also want to point out that 1 or 2 games now won't make a huge difference in Campbell's development. If he takes over when we're 3-8, it won't be that different than taking over at 2-6 (in my opinion).

I disagree. I think Campbell needs reps, and lots of them. Every extra snap he gets to take, the better.

Even if we do stick with Brunell, it's time to start getting Campbell involved. At the very least, promote him to second string and start getting him some work when the games are out of reach one way or another.

[SkinzCanes]

Even if we do stick with Brunell, it's time to start getting Campbell involved. At the very least, promote him to second string and start getting him some work when the games are out of reach one way or another.

That would make way too much sense. The management and coaches dont like to do things that make sense.

[Irn-Bru]

As for Campbell, I agree with your sentiments, but I also want to point out that 1 or 2 games now won't make a huge difference in Campbell's development. If he takes over when we're 3-8, it won't be that different than taking over at 2-6 (in my opinion).

I disagree. I think Campbell needs reps, and lots of them. Every extra snap he gets to take, the better.

Even if we do stick with Brunell, it's time to start getting Campbell involved. At the very least, promote him to second string and start getting him some work when the games are out of reach one way or another.

Here's where I'll end up splitting hairs. I agree that every extra snap is better for Campbell. There was maybe one drive this past week when Campbell could / should(?) have been in there.

I'm all for getting Campbell in there, but in general it looks like coaches prefer Brunell when it comes to winning games. And I wouldn't put reps for Jason over possible wins / playoff hopes.

What I should have said in my original post is that extra snaps at the cost of the season aren't worth it. It's a judgement call as to what "costs the season" and what doesn't. . .but I've written on that in other posts.

[Mursilis]

in general it looks like coaches prefer Brunell

Yes, but those coaches are Tom Coughlin, Bill Parcells, Jeff Fisher, Tony Dungy, and Brad Childress!!


Sorry, couldn't resist!!

[dnpmakkah]

Are you serious?
(1) Of course it will seem like you catch more heat since you are the one experiencing it. Try supporting Brunell on this board. . .it isn't as easy as you might think.

Good enough.

However, the reason I called you out is because of all of the calls to "wake up" (as if I'm asleep to reality), as well as the descritpions of Gibbs / Brunell supporters that continually pepper your posts.

Well my first post stating 'wake up' wasn't directed towards you. In fact I haven't read much of your posts. For the most part...if you disagree with someone you (Irn-Bru) try to state your reasons why you disagree. My point was more directed towards a select few (maybe one or two) who constantly have to make sarcastic replies and rude comments to those who call out this team, coach and quaterback. I ususally don't directly comment towards people personally (I try not too) but there are a few who have done it to me on my posts. So I was talking about them....if you don't do it (which I don't think you have to me) then I wasn't talking about you.

(3) I'm sure that's how people respond to you when you come in so innocently and say "play Campbell." I've read about 98% of the exchanges on this board, and your description doesn't sound much like anything that happens here.

I don't know what you mean here. But I'm not trying to be confrontational at all. Football is just a game to me. I don't bleed burgandy and gold, I bleed red blood. If the Skins lose I want a change/improvements. If they win I praise them. But I don't blindly follow them and keep hush.

You may come back and say that you were kidding or using hyperbole or whatever, but your post above is my proof that you're coming to the debate heated and ready to plow over anyone who disagrees with you. It'd be one thing if you only used the logic / argumentation that I see in your posts (it's definitely there), but it's the "wake up and see that you're 100% wrong!" attitude that I could live without. Whatever, it's your choice as a poster.

Point taken again. However, just to give you some insight. To me this is just football. I don't get very heated regarding it. Maybe it sounded like that by take my word I'm not heated. I only get heated regarding politics and religion but not sports. I will go over and re-read what I said just to make sure but I think I wrote "wake up" more directed towards those who have personally attacked my words. Like I stated above you might support Gibbs/Brunell and thats fine with me and since you never personally made comments about me its all good. My comments weren't directed towards people who have a different view point. I was directing my comments towards those who bash my view points.

As for Campbell, I agree with your sentiments, but I also want to point out that 1 or 2 games now won't make a huge difference in Campbell's development. If he takes over when we're 3-8, it won't be that different than taking over at 2-6 (in my opinion). Until our playoff chances are dead, it seems best to play the QB that gives you the best chance to win.

I know that it can be argued that Campbell is that man, but the coaches seem to think that it's still Brunell, and there's good reason to think that Brunell is our best shot while the playoff hope is still (barely) alive.

Can't argue with you much there. There is a slight chance but what is most frustrating is that once that chance is obviously gone Gibbs will still continue to play Brunell. So if at one point we are 2-9 it's scares me to think that Brunell might still be playing. Yikes.

[Irn-Bru]

I don't know what you mean here. But I'm not trying to be confrontational at all. Football is just a game to me. I don't bleed burgandy and gold, I bleed red blood. If the Skins lose I want a change/improvements. If they win I praise them. But I don't blindly follow them and keep hush.

You may come back and say that you were kidding or using hyperbole or whatever, but your post above is my proof that you're coming to the debate heated and ready to plow over anyone who disagrees with you. It'd be one thing if you only used the logic / argumentation that I see in your posts (it's definitely there), but it's the "wake up and see that you're 100% wrong!" attitude that I could live without. Whatever, it's your choice as a poster.

Point taken again. However, just to give you some insight. To me this is just football. I don't get very heated regarding it. Maybe it sounded like that by take my word I'm not heated. I only get heated regarding politics and religion but not sports. I will go over and re-read what I said just to make sure but I think I wrote "wake up" more directed towards those who have personally attacked my words. Like I stated above you might support Gibbs/Brunell and thats fine with me and since you never personally made comments about me its all good. My comments weren't directed towards people who have a different view point. I was directing my comments towards those who bash my view points.

Okay, fair enough. . .it looks like I was misreading you to a fair extent. It's hard to know on these message boards, so when the weight of an argument gets mixed with certain attitudes it can become annoying.

Now that you've said that you only get heated with religion and politics, it tempts me to start a thread in the lounge. . . just kidding, of couse

[jru37726]

Do you really think Mark brunell gives us the best chance to win? So far we have trotted his old, handsome self out there 7 times, and he has won twice . So what you are telling me is even if you KNEW how good or bad #17 was, he couldnt do any better?

No one even knows if Campbell can play or not and i have a feeling he could lead this team as well or better than 2-5.

For example.....Walter has one less win than Brunell and look at the talent around him. Alex Smith could possibly have the worst defense in NFL history with the worst head coach in NFL history as well (a.k.a the guy we loved running out of D.C. Mike Nolan) and guess how many wins he has.......the same as Brunell.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!! Lets see the Campbell play! I actually had the nerve to fly out to Indy to watch that debacle and my whole section of Indy fans that i had to sit there and deal with said it was a travesty that this guy was still QBing our team.....especially at the end of the game in mop up duty.....OH WAIT......thats Brunell pad-statting time so his backers can stay confident with him.

If i see another 2 yd checkdown to Ladell Betts on 3rd and 8 this year, i will literally puke.

[xhadow]

I think the point everyone is trying to make here is if we are going to keep loosing behind Brunell we might as well let Campbell get his loosing season out of the way (a la (GOD FORGIVE ME) Troy Stankman's 1-15 season) and get back to winning next year. Granted we are only 7 games in but with everyone else in the NFC East playing very well, the playoffs are an extreme longshot at this point.

[nychog]

i agree. it's time for JC. A 10-6 record is the only way we're going to make the playoffs and with our *sh$t* conference record 10-6 might not even cut it. I can't see mark leading this team on an 8-1 run to finish out the season. The Bucs are the only team remaining on our schedule with a below 500 record and they didn't look half bad yesterday. Dallas 3-2 Giants 3-2 philly 4-3 Bucs 2-4 carolina 4-3 atlanta 4-2 Saints 5-1 Rams 4-2.

Maybe I'm too much of a realist but lets face it. Our season's over.

We need to do what the Giants did with Eli. Lets use the rest of the season to get ready for next year.

[420x49xMark]

The depth chart should look like this at QB........
1.) TJ Duckett
2.) Mike Rumph
3.) Damon Huard
4.) Jason Campbell
5.) Andre Carter
6.) Mike Rumph

I know I listed Rumph twice but hes that good.

[sch1977]

Mark Brunell stinks. Everyone can see it except for Gibbs and the "real" Redskin fans. This defense is aweful and so is the offensive line. So with that said it is very likely this team is not going anywhere. So I see no reason why we shouldn't switch QB's.

I find it funny that people with my mindset will get bashed by the "real" fans on a consistant basis when their own way of blindly supporting the team is just as ridiculous. Wake up people....Brunell is part of the problem. No one would be screaming for change if we didn't have a young QB on the sideline. We need to find out what the guy is made of. This coaching staff overpaid for Brunell who is not worth the money or investment (3rd round pick). We also gave up too much for Campbell consider we aren't giving him a chance in a lost year (2 #1 draft picks).

This is where the blame comes on Gibbs. I know he is God to most of you but come on...those where 2 stupid moves made by the "man" himself. He also deserves blame in this and since he is the top dog he should get the brunt of it. End of Story.

It seems to me that the defense stinks, not Brunell

[sch1977]

The last 2 games the Redskins scored 20+ pts. enough to win with a good defense, don't blame the QB.

You do realize that last TD was a freebie yesterday, don't you? That's something opposing teams are doing this year against us - shutting down Brunell for 3.5 quarters, and then allowing him to pad his stats with a strong final drive which makes him look good enough as a QB to keep his starting job. It's done as a courtesy to our next opponent, to keep Brunell in the game, and to keep JC on the bench. Dallas did it, NY tried to do it, and the Colts did it yesterday. Don't be fooled.

Maybe a gimme, but Brunell isn't blowing coverage in the secondary

[TincoSkin]

the fact of the matter is gibbs will keep brunell in until we are unable to make the playoffs. at that point he will give JC reps as practice in preparation for next year. if you dont recognize the plan he has then all thats gonna come out of your mouth is JC should play JC should play JC should play.

he will but not until its impossible for us to get to the playoffs or brunell injured.

so lay off the JC should play thing. it wil happen in time.

[Gibbs4Life]

After seeing Gibbs' press conference I would not be surprised should we lose to dallas, Jason Campbell plays from then on. I've been on this board critical of Joe for being loyal to his old QB (that says alot about Joe Gibbs that at 2-5 the only thing we can really say is obviously his fault is loyalty) but I still get the feeling a loss to dallas at home would be infuriating to JGibbs enough to make that needed change at QB.

[HEROHAMO]

Brunell in a body bag is a bit harsh. I would just like him to show a bit of emotion but I really don't remember him ever doing that. I would have loved for him to just flat out say, "We did good in the first half but we came out the 2nd half and stunk it up." Then if he said, "We all did and we are all in it together." I may say, "Yeah, I get you Gibbs." But he's so easy going about it and doesn't want to do anything that my get his team upset, I would just like to see some emotion.

How about some accountability! I would love for him to accept the fact that he stunk it up. There were recievers open! Its all Brunell its his job to make it happen. The Qb is the leader of the offense. He is leading us into the gutter. How much longer must we endure this! And Gibbs man what the heck is he thinking. He is just flat out wrong on his stand on Brunell. Id say eighty percent of Skins fans know that Brunell is not the best thing for this team. Geez! If we are going to lose we might as well get the kid some playing time. Carter sucks! We should have picked up Julian Peterson. Heck lets try to trade for Manny Lawson. We need some young beasts on the D line and some young beasts all around on D.

[nychog]

accountability is right. Sure... we're all in this together... we win and lose as a team. etc... Well don't tell that to Portis and Moss. Those two are leaving it on the field every game. The atmosphere on this team is way to friendly. Players that are getting paid millions a year and not doing their job need to start getting called out. I'm starting to feel like these guys don't even give a sh*t about winning. Our team has no F'ing heart. I'm so sick of hearing gibbs talk about how we played our guts out then gives credit to the other team because they're one heck of a ball club. Redskins fans deserve more. We're the ones that have to go to work on mondays having to think about these horrible losses. Man, I'm so broke up about this season.

It all starts with the line of scrimmage on both sides and Gibbs dropped the ball. Sean Taylor and Marcus Washington could dominate on any other team but they're rolls are instead limited to stopping the run because our d-line has no depth and they suck. Portis and Moss should be racking up yards but they're not because Mark sucks and our offensive line is average at best and only one injury away from sucking. I wish we could give back Duckett and Lloyd for draft picks.

[old-timer]

There were recievers open! Its all Brunell its his job to make it happen. The Qb is the leader of the offense. He is leading us into the gutter. How much longer must we endure this! And Gibbs man what the heck is he thinking. He is just flat out wrong on his stand on Brunell. Id say eighty percent of Skins fans know that Brunell is not the best thing for this team. Geez! If we are going to lose we might as well get the kid some playing time. Carter sucks! We should have picked up Julian Peterson. Heck lets try to trade for Manny Lawson. We need some young beasts on the D line and some young beasts all around on D.

Brunell threw one pass inthe second half longer than 8 yards and it was overthrown. Our receivers are pissed. Moss was pissed that it was over his head. If I'm not mistaken, Lloyd almost lost it on the field, Randle El was yelling at him to calm down.

At this point, Brunell is NOT giving us the best chance to win. One of the announcers said 'Brunell is most comfortable with the short passing game'. Nobody knows it more than the opposing defense. We cannot possibly expect to win running screens, dumpoffs, and dinks all game long due to Brunell's limitations. We need a QB who can make plays - throw an accurate deep ball and improvise/run it if necessary. If it's not Campbell, we better figure that out soon.

[tcwest10]

The depth chart should look like this at QB........
1.) TJ Duckett
2.) Mike Rumph
3.) Damon Huard
4.) Jason Campbell
5.) Andre Carter
6.) Mike Rumph

I know I listed Rumph twice but hes that good.

I can't believe you'd start Campbell before Carter, but we're on the same page with Rumph.

[Gnome]

Right now the best reason to put in Jason is hope.

I want someone to root for that I believe will be the man to take this team to respectability. And I want Jason to get his feet wet before 07 so he'll come in with confidence.

It's hard to have hope with Brunell BECAUSE even if he plays over .500 ball the rest of the season and the Skins finish the season 7-9, there is no way he's back next year simply because he'll be 37 and you can't keep Jason on the bench 3 straight years.

So why ride Brunell the rest of the year? Unless he's the man now and into the future? Or as I keep saying, Jason is a bust. Maybe when Gibbs says Jason is the future, he means 2008? I hope not.

[Mursilis]

Right now the best reason to put in Jason is hope.

I want someone to root for that I believe will be the man to take this team to respectability. And I want Jason to get his feet wet before 07 so he'll come in with confidence.

Totally agree.

It's hard to have hope with Brunell BECAUSE even if he plays over .500 ball the rest of the season and the Skins finish the season 7-9, there is no way he's back next year simply because he'll be 37 and you can't keep Jason on the bench 3 straight years.

I wish I was as sure. Judging by the past three years, there's no guarantee Campbell will get the start in '07, and even if he does, he probably remembers what Gibbs did to Ramsey - give him less than 2 quarters, and then bench him for Brunell, who gets to kill two seasons with his 'supersmart' veteran play. I would not at all be surprised to see Brunell as the starter in 07, killing us yet again.

So why ride Brunell the rest of the year? Unless he's the man now and into the future? Or as I keep saying, Jason is a bust. Maybe when Gibbs says Jason is the future, he means 2008? I hope not.

It's so hard to know what the issue is here - is Campbell really that bad, and the 'skins have made yet another disasterous personnel move, or is Gibbs so stubborn he refuses to play the better player, just because he's young?

[SkinsJock]

We all want (well most of us) Campbell as the QB and we want that as soon as possible. I really think that Gibbs will bring him in soon but I also think it has nothing to do with a preference for Brunell over Campbell. I think he wants to continue to use Brunell because he gives him the best chance to win right now but also more importantly because the other key parts of the offense are not ready to provide the learning experience that we all want Campbell to get. We've got to run block better and we have to pass protect better. It's not so much that Gibbs wants Brunell in there as the fact that the offense is not playing very well together and Gibbs will not make a change until he can get some effectiveness from them.

Campbell will be starting soon because Gibbs will make that change - but for now it looks like Brunell is going to get an opportunity to win a couple more games first and continue to "pad his stats"




I would say that there is no likelihood at all that Brunell will be the starting QB next year. I think some fans here have more chance of being a NFL coach or a part of an NFL team than that happening.

[Mursilis]

We all want (well most of us) Campbell as the QB and we want that as soon as possible. I really think that Gibbs will bring him in soon but I also think it has nothing to do with a preference for Brunell over Campbell. I think he wants to continue to use Brunell because he gives him the best chance to win right now but also more importantly because the other key parts of the offense are not ready to provide the learning experience that we all want Campbell to get. We've got to run block better and we have to pass protect better. It's not so much that Gibbs wants Brunell in there as the fact that the offense is not playing very well together and Gibbs will not make a change until he can get some effectiveness from them.

Campbell will be starting soon because Gibbs will make that change - but for now it looks like Brunell is going to get an opportunity to win a couple more games first and continue to "pad his stats"

You do know we're not playing the Texans again this year, right? So where are these wins going to come from?

I would say that there is no likelihood at all that Brunell will be the starting QB next year. I think some fans here have more chance of being a NFL coach or a part of an NFL team than that happening.

Promises, promises.