old-timer wrote:That one long pass to Moss at the 6 was underthrown. Moss has been catching underthrown passes for going on two seasons now. We need a younger quarterback, with a stronger arm, who can hit Moss and Randle El in stride from 50 yards out. Yes, a younger QB will cost us games. But at least we'll be able tol make their defenses play us honest, and that will be a huge benefit.
And of course our kicking game looks like it's going to cost us another 3 games or so this year. Gibbs must be slipping if he doesn't see the kicking game problem.
If we play in Dallas like we played tonight, it's going to be a tough game. Maybe Saunders can use his personnel a little better next time. No excuse for such piss-poor passing stats when you have Moss, Randle El, and ey on your team. None at all.
Im pretty sure Moss was coming back for the ball. That play broke down and Brunell was scrambling and if we're talking about the same play, Brnuell zipped it in there pretty good.
I didn't see it that way. It looked to me like Brunell put everything he had into it and it died at the 6, right where Moss caught it. The safety was so surprised it was underthrown, he wasn't able to make a play on the ball. This kind of thing happened several times last year, one in the second Giants game that resulted in a long TD for us, because Moss was able to adjust quicker than the defender, and not because it was a well-thrown ball. I think Brunell himself has lost confidence in his ability to throw the long pass, which is why we see so few of them.
And if defenses don't respect the long ball, they'll play you close and tight and kill you all night long.
old-timer wrote:That one long pass to Moss at the 6 was underthrown. Moss has been catching underthrown passes for going on two seasons now. We need a younger quarterback, with a stronger arm, who can hit Moss and Randle El in stride from 50 yards out. Yes, a younger QB will cost us games. But at least we'll be able tol make their defenses play us honest, and that will be a huge benefit.
And of course our kicking game looks like it's going to cost us another 3 games or so this year. Gibbs must be slipping if he doesn't see the kicking game problem.
If we play in Dallas like we played tonight, it's going to be a tough game. Maybe Saunders can use his personnel a little better next time. No excuse for such piss-poor passing stats when you have Moss, Randle El, and ey on your team. None at all.
Im pretty sure Moss was coming back for the ball. That play broke down and Brunell was scrambling and if we're talking about the same play, Brnuell zipped it in there pretty good.
I would say that if I'm right, we'll see Brunell replaced within the next few weeks. If we lose ugly in Dallas, especially. If you're right, Brunell wiill play out the season, win or lose. So we'll see.
Don't count on Brunell being replaced any time soon - look at the '04 season. At least then, Gibbs seemed to prefer to lose with a veteran than win with a youngster at QB. The season was pretty much lost before Brunell got a much-deserved hook that year. Seems to be Gibbs' blind spot.
old-timer wrote:That one long pass to Moss at the 6 was underthrown. Moss has been catching underthrown passes for going on two seasons now. We need a younger quarterback, with a stronger arm, who can hit Moss and Randle El in stride from 50 yards out. Yes, a younger QB will cost us games. But at least we'll be able tol make their defenses play us honest, and that will be a huge benefit.
And of course our kicking game looks like it's going to cost us another 3 games or so this year. Gibbs must be slipping if he doesn't see the kicking game problem.
If we play in Dallas like we played tonight, it's going to be a tough game. Maybe Saunders can use his personnel a little better next time. No excuse for such piss-poor passing stats when you have Moss, Randle El, and ey on your team. None at all.
old-timer wrote:That one long pass to Moss at the 6 was underthrown. Moss has been catching underthrown passes for going on two seasons now. We need a younger quarterback, with a stronger arm, who can hit Moss and Randle El in stride from 50 yards out. Yes, a younger QB will cost us games. But at least we'll be able tol make their defenses play us honest, and that will be a huge benefit.
And of course our kicking game looks like it's going to cost us another 3 games or so this year. Gibbs must be slipping if he doesn't see the kicking game problem.
If we play in Dallas like we played tonight, it's going to be a tough game. Maybe Saunders can use his personnel a little better next time. No excuse for such piss-poor passing stats when you have Moss, Randle El, and ey on your team. None at all.
Im pretty sure Moss was coming back for the ball. That play broke down and Brunell was scrambling and if we're talking about the same play, Brnuell zipped it in there pretty good.
I would say that if I'm right, we'll see Brunell replaced within the next few weeks. If we lose ugly in Dallas, especially. If you're right, Brunell wiill play out the season, win or lose. So we'll see.
Don't count on Brunell being replaced any time soon - look at the '04 season. At least then, Gibbs seemed to prefer to lose with a veteran than win with a youngster at QB. The season was pretty much lost before Brunell got a much-deserved hook that year. Seems to be Gibbs' blind spot.
Gibbs was just trying to get us respectable at that time, and we needed to stop losing games due to poor decisions at QB (ie., Patrick Ramsey). Now our team is very respectable, and expectations are higher. In order to get to the next level, I think the writing is on the wall. We need a stronger arm at QB.
That is a poor observation. Brunell gives us the best opportunity to win. Look at that last drive. Had Randel El not stepped out of bounds, who knows what could have happened.
I also want to give props to Frost. Great job punting and his kickoffs were really good also. He kicked em high when asked and he put them on the end zone line twice also. Good job.
frankcal20 wrote:That is a poor observation. Brunell gives us the best opportunity to win. Look at that last drive. Had Randel El not stepped out of bounds, who knows what could have happened.
I also want to give props to Frost. Great job punting and his kickoffs were really good also. He kicked em high when asked and he put them on the end zone line twice also. Good job.
I too. think our punting and kickoffs were ok. Not too bad for the only bright spot I saw.
Where was our D? Where was Gibbs' confindence that we could get a yard? Why wasn't there a measurement anyway, at least to think about it? Where was the ball when he stepped out?
But as far as Brunell, I disagree. I'm not going to start anything, but just saying that I disagree.
frankcal20 wrote:That is a poor observation. Brunell gives us the best opportunity to win. Look at that last drive. Had Randel El not stepped out of bounds, who knows what could have happened.
BS - it should NEVER have come down to the final drive. 1/4 in the red zone and Brunell's <6yds/attempt aren't going to cut it. I'll say it again - how does Brad Johnson got 60 more yards on less completions than Brunell!?!? Brunell should've never waited until the 4th to throw it downfield. By then, it was too little, too late.
old-timer wrote:That one long pass to Moss at the 6 was underthrown. Moss has been catching underthrown passes for going on two seasons now. We need a younger quarterback, with a stronger arm, who can hit Moss and Randle El in stride from 50 yards out. Yes, a younger QB will cost us games. But at least we'll be able tol make their defenses play us honest, and that will be a huge benefit.
And of course our kicking game looks like it's going to cost us another 3 games or so this year. Gibbs must be slipping if he doesn't see the kicking game problem.
If we play in Dallas like we played tonight, it's going to be a tough game. Maybe Saunders can use his personnel a little better next time. No excuse for such piss-poor passing stats when you have Moss, Randle El, and ey on your team. None at all.
Im pretty sure Moss was coming back for the ball. That play broke down and Brunell was scrambling and if we're talking about the same play, Brnuell zipped it in there pretty good.
I would say that if I'm right, we'll see Brunell replaced within the next few weeks. If we lose ugly in Dallas, especially. If you're right, Brunell wiill play out the season, win or lose. So we'll see.
Don't count on Brunell being replaced any time soon - look at the '04 season. At least then, Gibbs seemed to prefer to lose with a veteran than win with a youngster at QB. The season was pretty much lost before Brunell got a much-deserved hook that year. Seems to be Gibbs' blind spot.
Gibbs was just trying to get us respectable at that time, and we needed to stop losing games due to poor decisions at QB (ie., Patrick Ramsey). Now our team is very respectable, and expectations are higher. In order to get to the next level, I think the writing is on the wall. We need a stronger arm at QB.
Except, for that season at least, Ramsey had a better record as a starter than Brunell (who, admittedly, was injured). I'm not going to say we should've kept Ramsey or whatever - that ship has sailed - but Brunell was flat awful in '04, was the cause of our losing (No. 3 defense and you still can't win?!?!), and should never have stayed in that long. There's simply no justification for keeping Brunell the starter as long as Gibbs did. He was bad from Day 1, and cost the team any hope of a good record that year.
old-timer wrote:That one long pass to Moss at the 6 was underthrown. Moss has been catching underthrown passes for going on two seasons now. We need a younger quarterback, with a stronger arm, who can hit Moss and Randle El in stride from 50 yards out. Yes, a younger QB will cost us games. But at least we'll be able tol make their defenses play us honest, and that will be a huge benefit.
And of course our kicking game looks like it's going to cost us another 3 games or so this year. Gibbs must be slipping if he doesn't see the kicking game problem.
If we play in Dallas like we played tonight, it's going to be a tough game. Maybe Saunders can use his personnel a little better next time. No excuse for such piss-poor passing stats when you have Moss, Randle El, and ey on your team. None at all.
Im pretty sure Moss was coming back for the ball. That play broke down and Brunell was scrambling and if we're talking about the same play, Brnuell zipped it in there pretty good.
I would say that if I'm right, we'll see Brunell replaced within the next few weeks. If we lose ugly in Dallas, especially. If you're right, Brunell wiill play out the season, win or lose. So we'll see.
Don't count on Brunell being replaced any time soon - look at the '04 season. At least then, Gibbs seemed to prefer to lose with a veteran than win with a youngster at QB. The season was pretty much lost before Brunell got a much-deserved hook that year. Seems to be Gibbs' blind spot.
Gibbs was just trying to get us respectable at that time, and we needed to stop losing games due to poor decisions at QB (ie., Patrick Ramsey). Now our team is very respectable, and expectations are higher. In order to get to the next level, I think the writing is on the wall. We need a stronger arm at QB.
Except, for that season at least, Ramsey had a better record as a starter than Brunell (who, admittedly, was injured). I'm not going to say we should've kept Ramsey or whatever - that ship has sailed - but Brunell was flat awful in '04, was the cause of our losing (No. 3 defense and you still can't win?!?!), and should never have stayed in that long. There's simply no justification for keeping Brunell the starter as long as Gibbs did. He was bad from Day 1, and cost the team any hope of a good record that year.
Mursilis...I sure hope you're a woman and a Morman, because you sound right for me. I just don't know how my wife would take it.
old-timer wrote:That one long pass to Moss at the 6 was underthrown. Moss has been catching underthrown passes for going on two seasons now. We need a younger quarterback, with a stronger arm, who can hit Moss and Randle El in stride from 50 yards out. Yes, a younger QB will cost us games. But at least we'll be able tol make their defenses play us honest, and that will be a huge benefit.
And of course our kicking game looks like it's going to cost us another 3 games or so this year. Gibbs must be slipping if he doesn't see the kicking game problem.
If we play in Dallas like we played tonight, it's going to be a tough game. Maybe Saunders can use his personnel a little better next time. No excuse for such piss-poor passing stats when you have Moss, Randle El, and ey on your team. None at all.
Im pretty sure Moss was coming back for the ball. That play broke down and Brunell was scrambling and if we're talking about the same play, Brnuell zipped it in there pretty good.
I would say that if I'm right, we'll see Brunell replaced within the next few weeks. If we lose ugly in Dallas, especially. If you're right, Brunell wiill play out the season, win or lose. So we'll see.
Don't count on Brunell being replaced any time soon - look at the '04 season. At least then, Gibbs seemed to prefer to lose with a veteran than win with a youngster at QB. The season was pretty much lost before Brunell got a much-deserved hook that year. Seems to be Gibbs' blind spot.
Gibbs was just trying to get us respectable at that time, and we needed to stop losing games due to poor decisions at QB (ie., Patrick Ramsey). Now our team is very respectable, and expectations are higher. In order to get to the next level, I think the writing is on the wall. We need a stronger arm at QB.
Except, for that season at least, Ramsey had a better record as a starter than Brunell (who, admittedly, was injured). I'm not going to say we should've kept Ramsey or whatever - that ship has sailed - but Brunell was flat awful in '04, was the cause of our losing (No. 3 defense and you still can't win?!?!), and should never have stayed in that long. There's simply no justification for keeping Brunell the starter as long as Gibbs did. He was bad from Day 1, and cost the team any hope of a good record that year.[/quote
But Brunell did extremely well last year - and Ramsey had plateaued. I don't thing Ramsey had what it takes, and it was apparent to Gibbs, who chose the lesser of two evils.
I was spoiled by Rypien and Williams. They both won Super Bowls with the long ball, although both of those teams were stronger along the line than this one. Nevertheless, Brunell's inability to throw the long and medium long balls is pretty much killing us.
]
frankcal20 wrote:That is a poor observation. Brunell gives us the best opportunity to win. Look at that last drive. Had Randel El not stepped out of bounds, who knows what could have happened.
BS - it should NEVER have come down to the final drive. 1/4 in the red zone and Brunell's <6yds/attempt aren't going to cut it. I'll say it again - how does Brad Johnson got 60 more yards on less completions than Brunell!?!? Brunell should've never waited until the 4th to throw it downfield. By then, it was too little, too late.
Well, the difference here is Brad Johnson threw his passes in between reading a chapter or two of War and Peace, whereas Brunell was throwing the ball over his shoulder, running backwards, trying not to get pounded into the dirt.
The protection differences between the two Olines were...dramatic.
Nah, just not being able to stop the opposing teams offense on 3rd down and not being able to come through on special teams is what is killing us. Brunell would be fine otherwise. He's not asked to win the game, just manage the game and I think he does that.
I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Brunell is one of the oldest most conservative QB's in the league who rarely takes chances deep until he is forced to. We could use an upgrade at the position BUT it is not required to win games if your running game, defense and special teams are all very good. Which there weren't! The one thing I would love to ask Snyder is, "when are you going to get us a decent kicker and punter already, geez!" I've never seen a franchise with so many injuries and poor performances from the kickers. Can we get Novak back?
redskins-28 wrote:The problem isn't Brunell, it's the O line, they were terrible. They gave Brunell no time to throw, he was hurried way too many times. The O line looked like this against the Pats in preseason and need to tighten up and plug the holes. No QB is going to perform while being chased half the time.
like i said earlyer...be4 this game i was concerned about our backups on o-line....but now im conceredned about our starting line-up on the o-line
"These are the times that try men's souls......Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." --Thomas Paine
like Ray brown said on Post Game Live...
he said he didnt think that the skins needed a new offence ie al saunders.( althought i like the pick up) .its that they need some new recivers...post game live is so much better to watch with Ray brown there... hail to the redskins ... we will re-bound from this...and when better than aginst the cow-girels..?????
"These are the times that try men's souls......Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." --Thomas Paine
frankcal20 wrote:That is a poor observation. Brunell gives us the best opportunity to win. Look at that last drive. Had Randel El not stepped out of bounds, who knows what could have happened.
BS - it should NEVER have come down to the final drive. 1/4 in the red zone and Brunell's <6yds/attempt aren't going to cut it. I'll say it again - how does Brad Johnson got 60 more yards on less completions than Brunell!?!? Brunell should've never waited until the 4th to throw it downfield. By then, it was too little, too late.
Well, the difference here is Brad Johnson threw his passes in between reading a chapter or two of War and Peace, whereas Brunell was throwing the ball over his shoulder, running backwards, trying not to get pounded into the dirt.
The protection differences between the two Olines were...dramatic.
I think that when a team like the Vikes is not afraid of the long ball, they'll put everybody up tight and tell their line to pin their ears back and go for Brunell on every play. Nobody is afraid of mounting an all out rush if the worst that can happen is Brunell throws for fifteen yards on you. Thus, your pass protection suffers when the other team is not afraid of your ability to burn them deep.
How much blitzing did Greg Williams do tonight? My impression is, not much. He had Rumph and Wright back there, and I'm sure that couldn't have made him too comfortable. Thus, we had no pressure. When Springs comes back, the blitzing will resume full speed and we'll beat mediocre teams with regularity again. QBs like Brad Johnson will not be confused with Johnny Unitas, because they'll be running for their lives and making the bad decisions we know they're prone to make.
But our offense will still suck until we get a guy back their with a stronger arm.
I think you're right along with the rest of Virginia and MAryland residents in worrying about the O-line backups. I think the starters will be okay. V ikings have a nasty D-line. We'll get a better look next week in Dallas.
Ok - just got back from the game... here are my thoughts...
1.) Our O-line is playing inconsistently. 3 out of 4 times with 1rst and goal inside the 10 and the Offense comes away with 9 points (the other time was the Portis TD)?
2.) We can't stop the run when we need to. Ok C. Taylor got less than 100 yards but he seemed to ge tall his yards setting us up for 3rd down...which leads me to my next observation...
3.) We play decent and sometimes GREAT Defense for 2 downs and then we can't stop anyone on 3rd down.
4.) We need to pick up a Safety opposite S. Taylor who can actually cover. Additionally we need Springs back. Its going to be a long day in Dallas on Sunday if Springs is still out.
5.) Finally - THROW THE BALL DOWNFIELD !! The Vikings were cheating up to the line in the second half because we didn't have them off-balance. Additionally we didn't confuse them pre-snap as much in the 2nd half as much as we did in the 1rst.
Just some thoughts as I vent this loss...
Three things to add...
The refs need to know that on a tipped pass you're allowed to hit the receiver - Taylor's penalty was unwarranted...
Someone needs to tell Randal El to dive for the first down when its already 3rd down and you have no timeouts left.
Can someone tell me if any team has picked up Novak yet ???
I just got back from the game, I'll throw in my thoughts.
1. We need to be able to get teams off the field on 3rd downs, especially 3rd and longs. How many times did the Vikes get a first down on 3rd & 8, 3rd and 9?
2. Our kick coverage sucks. Just flat out sucks. There's no other way to put it. When Minny got that cheap FG before the half I told my brother that it would come back to haunt us. Boy, did it ever.
3. I actually like the Al Saunders offense in theory. It just doesn't seem to work near the goal line when there isn't as much room to move around. We have to be able to punch the ball in when we get inside the 5 yard line. Where the hell was TJ Duckett? John Hall made 3 FGs and the longest was 27 yards. That says a lot about our red zone offense.
4. We need to have Shawn Springs back for the Dallas game or we will be 0-2 on Monday morning. End of story.
5. I have disliked John Hall for years. That kick was pitiful. I realize it was 48 yards but NFL kickers make 48 yard FGs all the time. That wasn't even CLOSE. Terrible kick.
Now if you'll excuse me I am going to go get in bed and spend all day tomorrow laying under the covers feeling sorry for myself.
R.I.P. Christopher Wallace (May 21, 1972 - March 9, 1997)
R.I.P. Sean Taylor (April 1, 1983 - November 27, 2007)
-It took too long for the plays to develop on offense tonight, but that's acceptable since we're trying to learn a 700 page playbook.
Maybe if they had actually practiced some of those plays in the preseason games.....
Well once CP got hurt, that pretty much killed our chances of having a remotely successful PreSeason.
But like I said, tonight was the first time the whole first team offense played 60 Mins. of football with that new 700 page playbook so you couldn't be expecting too much.
That being said, I think we need to run more roll outs to ey and more quick passes to Moss and A.R.E.
joebagadonuts on IsaneBoost's signature:
-- "I laughed. I cried. Better than Cats"
Just got back home from the game. A few observations I made from where I was sitting:
(1) Our defense was very dissapointing. Too many 3rd down conversions allowed. There is no way we can win if we keep that up.
(2) Our offense certainly was not the 'powerful' offense I was hoping to see. Why didn't Ducket get the ball near the goal line?!?!!?! Isn't that why we signed him?
(3) I hate John Hall. I hate John Hall. I hate John Hall.
Fran Farren "Justice Hog"
Newark, DE
“God didn't give us a spirit that is timid but one that is powerful, loving and controlled.” 2 Timothy 1:7
3. I actually like the Al Saunders offense in theory. It just doesn't seem to work near the goal line when there isn't as much room to move around. We have to be able to punch the ball in when we get inside the 5 yard line. Where the hell was TJ Duckett? John Hall made 3 FGs and the longest was 27 yards. That says a lot about our red zone offense.
I don't mean to be argumentative, but did u watch the Chiefs the last few years? They were at their best in the red zone.
i watched the game and thanks to t-vo i will watch it again... what i saw was that we have NO o-line.we have No Special teams,,
Justice Hog wrote:Just got back home from the game. A few observations I made from where I was sitting:
(1) Our defense was very dissapointing. Too many 3rd down conversions allowed. There is no way we can win if we keep that up.
(2) Our offense certainly was not the 'powerful' offense I was hoping to see. Why didn't Ducket get the ball near the goal line?!?!!?! Isn't that why we signed him?
(3) I hate John Hall. I hate John Hall. I hate John Hall.
i agree i wanted to see duckett... but i think that gibbs didnt want to make his team more "po'ed" then they were when we picked him up...mark my words he will play next week .. and he is huge.. like sellers.. he will move the pile.!!!! this game shouldnt be put on hall shoulders .. even though that's what we have a kicker for... we should have won this game long before it came down to Hall....i just hope this game fires up our team and we make everyone eles pay 4 this lo-ss....hail to the redskins... make Dallazzzzz pay!!!!!!!!
"These are the times that try men's souls......Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." --Thomas Paine
ey on your team. None at all.
