This whole preseason "vanilla" issue

Montana Redskin · Post by **Montana Redskin** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:33 am

Everyone, including the Redskins and coaches, continue to banter on on on about how we should relax and wait because we just ran vanilla stuff and only "2% of playbook", etc..etc...

Didn't all of our opponents for the most part run the same thing, have the same approach? (yea, NE seemed to be a bit more reg. season attitude).

In all of those, we were dominated, as in 127-20 or something, one of worst preseason showings in history of NFL.

Seems like we have the perception that the Redskins are the only team running basic plays/formations and everyone else isn't?

That does concern me a bit...

Brunell and all QB's weren't ever really impressive, back up o-line horrible, no running whatsoever....

Come Monday night, I hope this changes but for some odd reason I think we may have a rough September and don't want to get out to a 1-3 type start again like '04.

Again, the basic fact is all our opponents weren't showing anything either and we got blown away.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:46 am

No, I do not think the other teams played vanilla. Do two flea-flickers and a reverse seem vanilla to you?

gay4pacman · Post by **gay4pacman** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:52 am

no huddlethe whole first half vs. NE? Not vanilla.

box · Post by **box** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:17 pm

Guess its time to run Saunders and his #1 rated O system out of town. He doesnt have a clue what he is doing. We have all seen how bad his O is this preseason. We are doomed and we all know G>W> doesnt know how to coach D. Hell , throw in GIbbs too. What does he know we dont?

:evil:

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:08 pm

Here's my take on the whole "vanilla" thing, and I really believe that people should look at it like this. I could be wrong, but I dont' think I am.

In the first pre-season game against the Bengals, the Redskisn first string D were totally dominant for that first series. Even the first string Offense was doing good. Remember the catch by Lloyd? So, after the very first series, of the very first game, the Redskins just backed off after that.

After they ran their first seris of downs, and Clinton got hurt, the Gibbs and the coaches basically said let's tone it WAY down for the rest of the pre-season and dont' do anything stupid.

When Portis was hurt, the coaches might have just said to the players, go out and play, but don't put yourself in a position to get hurt, which would explain what looked like a lack of effort. on both the Offensive side and the Defensive side.

As for other teams, they were not ALL vanilla. Bellichick surprisingly showed a lot more than he has in the past, but that's because he needs to see what he has cuz he's lost Mangini and his top WR. The Jets were very UN-vanilla, but they've got a new head coach and he needs to see what type of planning he can do. The Ravens have a new QB, and they need to see what he can do. The Bungles were surprisingly un-vanilla as well (i.e. flea flickers) but that could be attributed to the health of Palmer and if he's not able to go in week one.

So, if you look at it, the very first series of downs in the first pre-season game, the Redskins Defense looked dominant, and that was all Gregg Williams needed to see. On the Offense, when Portis got hurt, Saunders or Gibbs didn't want to take any more chances, and they were carefull to keep Lloyd, Randle El, and Moss out of the whole package, or on the field together at the same time, and anyone can understand the need for that.

The O-line need work, but again, the coaches might simply have said "dont' get hurt" even if you allow a sack, let it go but DONT GET HURT.

There's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that we dont' know. The Skins, I beieve, never once put Lloyd, Moss, and Randle El on the field at the same time. They never once did a trick play, or looked like they were trying to grasp a new offense. Could it be that they know what they're doing?

Dont' worry people, this is when Gibbs is at his best!!! We're in for a dream year!!

Dishgeek · Post by **Dishgeek** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:17 pm

box wrote:G>W> doesnt know how to coach D. Hell , throw in GIbbs too.

It's worse than that man! Didn't you read SI? The pre-season shows the league's figured out GW's schemes! Well that's great, that's just great man. Now what are we supposed to do? We're in some real pretty stuff now man... That's it man, game over man, game over! What are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do?

This_Heat · Post by **This_Heat** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:21 pm

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... the season starts in 1(!) week

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:51 pm

Again, the basic fact is all our opponents weren't showing anything either and we got blown away.

You must not have been watchin the New England game. Tom Brady was in mid-season field commander form. . .walking up to the line and audibling for the next 20 seconds before the snap.

The Redskins always lined up in whatever play was called. . .no shifting, no audibling, run the play and see what happens.

We did get crushed for the most part, but other teams looked like they were playing a regular season game.

Hooligan · Post by **Hooligan** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:09 pm

I agree totally with JP, and a few of my friends have said the same thing. We did a good job out of the gate and proved what we needed to. After injuries began to strike, coaches had everyone back off and save themselves for the season. That could explain a lot, like Carter seeming so unimpressive.

I hope it's true and we beat Minnesota like a dirty rug.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:39 pm

The only thing that really bugs me about the preseason is that our offensive line, playing in a vanilla offense, allowed quite a bit of pressure on our quarterbacks. Yes, you can say they weren't playing to avoid injury, but every one of those hits on Brunell could have knocked him out for the regular season.

The o-line play kinda bothered me.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:27 pm

Really? From what I saw, the first team O-Line got much better as the preseason progressed.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:52 pm

cvillehog wrote:Really? From what I saw, the first team O-Line got much better as the preseason progressed.

In the last game the entire projected o-line played, the line gave up 3 sacks on Brunell, on pretty simple blitz schemes. 3 sacks in 16 drop backs...is not good. It's Houston Texan's type pass blocking.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:50 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
cvillehog wrote:Really? From what I saw, the first team O-Line got much better as the preseason progressed.

In the last game the entire projected o-line played, the line gave up 3 sacks on Brunell, on pretty simple blitz schemes. 3 sacks in 16 drop backs...is not good. It's Houston Texan's type pass blocking.

My feeling on that is that the O-Line were instructed, in no uncertain terms to just go out and play without risking injury. You could see it in their effort, they just weren't blocking them as much as we've seen them before, and what we know they're capable of. Brunell is smart enough to know when to throw the ball away and/or take a sack. It's rare in pre-season that they really blast the QB on a sack anyway, so pummelling Brunell into an injury was not really going to happen. In most cases, when Brunell saw a blitz coming he simply got rid of it in a hurry in a rythym based offense, which protected him from being hit and kept the O-line healthy. That's just my take on it. I don't think for one second that Jansen, Dockery, Rabach, Thomas, and Samuels are going to play like they played in the pre-season. It's just not going to happen. Plus, the Redskins weren't even bothering to pick up the blitzes, and Portis and now Duckett are excellent at picking up blitzes. I see the O-Line being one of out strengths, if they stay healthy.

John Manfreda · Post by **John Manfreda** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:39 pm

you wanna know how vanilla the Redskins were, well they weren't they were throwing out all the tricks (insert laugh here), now back to reality this is how vanilla they were Randel El did not return one punt. Not only were they vanilla but they were giant brand ice cream vanilla, not even Ben and Jerry's vanilla.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:52 pm

JPFair wrote:I see the O-Line being one of out strengths, if they stay healthy.

And I agree. But you still don't want your starting QB taking ANY shots in preseason games, so I doubt they consciously let players sack Brunell.

While most players don't bother to kill the QB, all it takes is one hit, and Brunell is down. Or injured, and playing like it was 2004...

It's not like Brunell is going to win an Iron Man trophy anytime soon.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:39 pm

The whole point was... Give no one any film to work with. The blocking was all straight up, with no schemes or line calls to adjust to defensive sets or shows.

It will be at least 4 games now before teams can start to get usable film.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:16 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
JPFair wrote:I see the O-Line being one of out strengths, if they stay healthy.

And I agree. But you still don't want your starting QB taking ANY shots in preseason games, so I doubt they consciously let players sack Brunell.

No they didn't, because it was Brunell's responsibility to get rid of the ball before taking the sack.

yupchagee · Post by **yupchagee** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:37 pm

JPFair wrote:
PulpExposure wrote:
cvillehog wrote:Really? From what I saw, the first team O-Line got much better as the preseason progressed.

In the last game the entire projected o-line played, the line gave up 3 sacks on Brunell, on pretty simple blitz schemes. 3 sacks in 16 drop backs...is not good. It's Houston Texan's type pass blocking.

My feeling on that is that the O-Line were instructed, in no uncertain terms to just go out and play without risking injury. You could see it in their effort, they just weren't blocking them as much as we've seen them before, and what we know they're capable of. Brunell is smart enough to know when to throw the ball away and/or take a sack. It's rare in pre-season that they really blast the QB on a sack anyway, so pummelling Brunell into an injury was not really going to happen. In most cases, when Brunell saw a blitz coming he simply got rid of it in a hurry in a rythym based offense, which protected him from being hit and kept the O-line healthy. That's just my take on it. I don't think for one second that Jansen, Dockery, Rabach, Thomas, and Samuels are going to play like they played in the pre-season. It's just not going to happen. Plus, the Redskins weren't even bothering to pick up the blitzes, and Portis and now Duckett are excellent at picking up blitzes. I see the O-Line being one of out strengths, if they stay healthy.

I don't buy all of this. They don't want the O-line injured, bu they have to be even more concerned with Brunell. I don't think they were instructed to doe toreador blocks. Portis is a good blocker, I'm not so sure about Duckett.