Do a little bit of research. Go back and see how long Rypien learned the system before he got to play. It will give you some idea of how Joe Gibbs does things. And regardless of how many assistants the man has, he is clearly still making the calls like this.
True. But Gibbs didn't trade a 1st, 3rd, and 4th round pick to get Rypien. Also when Rypien was sitting on the bench learning the offense he wasn't making first round money.
SkinsJock wrote:I am sure that nobody really believes that if Cowher or Bill B were running our team we would have as much chance of doing well this year as we do with Joe Gibbs.
I do. Maybe not Cowher (I still put him in the 'very good' cateogory, one step below 'great'), but definitely Belichik. Sure, he's had Brady, who's probably a future HOFer, but that offense is otherwise pretty devoid of real 'stars', and he's still made it hum. Plus, he's had a ton of injuries over the past several years (Pats lead the league in number of different starters over the past 5 seasons, due to all thier injuries), and has managed to work around that. I agree Gibbs is obviously a great coach, and I do expect he'll collect a few more rings this second term, but I don't consider him the only great coach out there.
aswas71788 wrote: Remember the year before last? Brunell played terrible but stayed in until there was no other option.
Except there was an option - Ramsey. People can say what they want about Ramsey, but for that one year, 2004, Ramsey was a better QB than Brunell. You can't argue against the stats. But Gibbs was so biased against young QBs, he let Brunell essentially wreck the season before he got the hook. That's my only fear regarding Brunell this year - he'll get hurt, but not too hurt to sit out, and we'll get the Brunell of '04, because Gibbs won't bench him until we've got 5-6 losses already.
This is an interesting debate but I am convinced that Gibbs (and Saunders) will put in who they know will give the team the best chance to win.
Patience guys - this guy is the best in the NFL right now and he has surrounded himself with the players who can get the job done on the field and with the coaches who can make it all work.
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
First for JSPB22 - Campbells pro style offense was the same as Leinarts. USC's offense was pure NFL. One thing should be noted and that is Leinart had more better (? he had more supporting players that were better)supporting players than Campbell did. That makes a difference.
Second for Mursilis - When I said that there was no other option, I meant that Brunell had played so poorly that there was no other option but to pull him and put in Ramsey. Anyone would have been better. But that is Gibbs. Someone said that Gibbs will play the best player that he thinkds will win. Not totslly true when it comes to the quarterback. The best quarterback may not be the one that gives the best chance of winning in a particular type offense. The equation that we do not know is what will Saunders do? Will he change if Brunell isn't producing? Probably. Will Gibbs over ride him if he wants to change? Probably not. If Gibbs does one thing above all else, he manages people to get the best from them.
All we can do is wait and support our team and hope that what we now see is smoke.
aswas71788 wrote:First for JSPB22 - Campbells pro style offense was the same as Leinarts. USC's offense was pure NFL. One thing should be noted and that is Leinart had more better (? he had more supporting players that were better)supporting players than Campbell did. That makes a difference.
Second for Mursilis - When I said that there was no other option, I meant that Brunell had played so poorly that there was no other option but to pull him and put in Ramsey. Anyone would have been better. But that is Gibbs. Someone said that Gibbs will play the best player that he thinkds will win. Not totslly true when it comes to the quarterback. The best quarterback may not be the one that gives the best chance of winning in a particular type offense. The equation that we do not know is what will Saunders do? Will he change if Brunell isn't producing? Probably. Will Gibbs over ride him if he wants to change? Probably not. If Gibbs does one thing above all else, he manages people to get the best from them.
All we can do is wait and support our team and hope that what we now see is smoke.
He didn't have a better supporting cast than Leinhart, look at USC's D and Auburns. They both had good lines, I would say Auburn's backs were better, Bush better than Williams, but Brown is way better than Ledale, the reciever's edge to USC, including D though they were the same.
SkinsJock wrote:This is an interesting debate but I am convinced that Gibbs (and Saunders) will put in who they know will give the team the best chance to win.
Patience guys - this guy is the best in the NFL right now and he has surrounded himself with the players who can get the job done on the field and with the coaches who can make it all work.
Not exactly. Gibbs & Saunders will put in whoever they think will be best for the team in the long run. Putting in a young QB before he's ready can ruin him. Examples: Patrick Ramsey, Tim Couch (Cle). I'm sure you can come up with a lot more names.
Skins fan since '55
"The constitution is not a suicide pact"- Abraham Lincoln
For all of the discussion and valid opinions expressed, I feel the need to make one last statement. While I have not always appreciated what Gibbs has done nor have I ever been a Brunell supporter, I can say that Gibbs has been one of the best head coaches the Redskins have had. His return turned a poor excuse for sorry Redskins team into a viable and competitive football team that I can root for proudly. While I may have my grips, I feel that this is the first year in many that the Redskins could actually get to the Super Bowl and win it. Forget the pre season, it is only good for evaluating new players and causing injuries. It does have its place but the scores and won/lost column is not one of them.
I think that it is very hard to compare Campbell's situation to that of Brady and Big Ben's. Brady and Big Ben both had and still have very good offensive lines that give them time to throw. Plus, they have always had a sure running game to open up the pass. Yes, Portis has gotten good numbers while here but those numbers and the effectiveness of his running is nothing like it was in Denver. Game changing runs.
Also, it seems as though there is this perception that Campbell is not smart enough to run this offense. Hell Collins (whose been with this offense longer than anybody looks like he can't run either) and Brunell don't look like they can run it either. But yet and still, Campbell's numbers are better in the preseason than the other two.
All of this is predicated on the running game and pass protection anyway. If we can't run the ball, they load up on the pass rush and if we can't protect on the pass, then we got nothing.
I won't start questioning what is going on unless we start out 0-2. With the division being as strong as it's been in a long time, we don't have room for error and slumps....
Sean Taylor - 1983-2007 R.I.P.... Forever A Skin.....
roybus14 wrote:I think that it is very hard to compare Campbell's situation to that of Brady and Big Ben's. Brady and Big Ben both had and still have very good offensive lines that give them time to throw. Plus, they have always had a sure running game to open up the pass. Yes, Portis has gotten good numbers while here but those numbers and the effectiveness of his running is nothing like it was in Denver. Game changing runs.
Also, it seems as though there is this perception that Campbell is not smart enough to run this offense. Hell Collins (whose been with this offense longer than anybody looks like he can't run either) and Brunell don't look like they can run it either. But yet and still, Campbell's numbers are better in the preseason than the other two.
All of this is predicated on the running game and pass protection anyway. If we can't run the ball, they load up on the pass rush and if we can't protect on the pass, then we got nothing.
I won't start questioning what is going on unless we start out 0-2. With the division being as strong as it's been in a long time, we don't have room for error and slumps....
We have a good O line & good running game. Now that we have a good receiving corps, LOOK OUT!
Skins fan since '55
"The constitution is not a suicide pact"- Abraham Lincoln
SkinsJock wrote:I am sure that nobody really believes that if Cowher or Bill B were running our team we would have as much chance of doing well this year as we do with Joe Gibbs.
I do. Maybe not Cowher (I still put him in the 'very good' cateogory, one step below 'great'), but definitely Belichik. Sure, he's had Brady, who's probably a future HOFer, but that offense is otherwise pretty devoid of real 'stars', and he's still made it hum.
But Belichick is a defensive coach, and really doesn't have much say in the offensive play, just like Gibbs with the defense.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
roybus14 wrote:But yet and still, Campbell's numbers are better in the preseason than the other two.
Collins' numbers are the best, actually. 61.1 passer rating Campbell 51.1 Brunell 48.1
True, but Gibbs obviously isn't worrying too much about the preseason. Those numbers change nothing, at least to the coaches. But I wonder if Campbell has moved ahead of Collins to the No.2 spot?
roybus14 wrote:But yet and still, Campbell's numbers are better in the preseason than the other two.
Collins' numbers are the best, actually. 61.1 passer rating Campbell 51.1 Brunell 48.1
True, but Gibbs obviously isn't worrying too much about the preseason. Those numbers change nothing, at least to the coaches. But I wonder if Campbell has moved ahead of Collins to the No.2 spot?
I think so. I also think Campbell will be our starter at some point this season.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
roybus14 wrote:But yet and still, Campbell's numbers are better in the preseason than the other two.
Collins' numbers are the best, actually. 61.1 passer rating Campbell 51.1 Brunell 48.1
True, but Gibbs obviously isn't worrying too much about the preseason. Those numbers change nothing, at least to the coaches. But I wonder if Campbell has moved ahead of Collins to the No.2 spot?
I think so. I also think Campbell will be our starter at some point this season.
I hope so. I wonder how long a leash Gibbs will have on Brunell this season? If it's as long as in '04, that's too long.
I also think that Campbell will be our starting QB this season and it would not surprise me if he becomes the starter even if Brunell is both winning games and not injured
I really think he will be our starter as soon as Saunders (and Gibbs) think he offers the better chance to be able to manage this offense. Brunell is getting old and he will lead the team well (and maybe all season) but it will not surprise me to see Campbell as our starting QB.
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
SkinsJock wrote:I also think that Campbell will be our starting QB this season and it would not surprise me if he becomes the starter even if Brunell is both winning games and not injured
What?!?!? I can't see Gibbs benching an experienced, healthy, veteran QB who is actually winning games. That's just crazy talk. If Brunell is playing at least as good as his best games in '05, he'll start all season, with JC getting clean-up duty, if that. The only other possible scenario I see Brunell getting benched without having earned it is if we get such a lead in the playoff race that Gibbs can afford to bench most of the starters for the last 2-3 games to rest them for the playoffs. That'd be nice, but not likely.
Gibbs said what we already knew (Mark is the starter) last night after the game. Later when asked about the backup spot he said he would be telling the press of that decsion after the final review
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When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hold on....
Mursilis wrote:What?!?!? I can't see Gibbs benching an experienced, healthy, veteran QB who is actually winning games. That's just crazy talk. If Brunell is playing at least as good as his best games in '05, he'll start all season, with JC getting clean-up duty, if that. ..
You said "healthy" and I said "not injured"! I agree with your assumptions based on those scenarios but my thoughts are based on other scenarios. I think there is a good chance that Brunell will be the starting QB all season but I think Gibbs (and Saunders) will use Campbell based on certain conditions that might occur because of Brunell's age and Campbell's progress.
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
1niksder wrote:Gibbs said what we already knew (Mark is the starter) last night after the game. Later when asked about the backup spot he said he would be telling the press of that decsion after the final review
I sure hope it's Campbell. The only way he can progress is by playing. As #2 he can play some garbage time. Not ideal, but better than carrying a clipboard all yr.
Skins fan since '55
"The constitution is not a suicide pact"- Abraham Lincoln
I am a Campbell fan and really also believe that right now Brunell is the best person for the Redskins. I am hoping that Brunell will have another decent year and will adapt to the new system quickly.
I am a little tired of how some do not think he can "survive" a season at his age. I am hoping that he will be the leader that Gibbs and Saunders are looking for and also gives Campbell the time to continue to grow. I also am aware of his age, but again, I do not think (and hope) that will be a problem.
I just think from all accounts that Campbell has all the ability to be a very good QB for the Redskins BUT that time does not have to be right now - Gibbs and Saunders will make that call and that is fine with me. I only hope that at the time Campbell is our starter, Brunell will be available (and healthy) for this season at least, to back him up!!
From what I am seeing so far, we have much bigger concerns than with our offense or defence.
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
