Skins To Deal For Duckett?

Talk about the Washington Football Team here. Do you bleed burgundy and gold?
User avatar
1niksder
**********
**********
Posts: 16741
youtube meble na wymiar Warszawa
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
Contact:

Post by 1niksder »

Chris Luva Luva wrote:If you guys look at the video I posted on the previous page you'll see that this cat is NOT slow. He's beating people to the edges on sweeps. He's blowing past safeties.

And best of all.

He PUNISHES WHOMEVER HE COMES IN CONTACT WITH!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Goodness yes! Im sooo pumped we have a big back now!

Id almost let him start the games. Let him wear down the defense. Bring CP with a fresh set of wheels and they wont be able to touch him, thus saving his shoulder.

Do you guys think he's going to play this week? I HOPE! :shock:


Tell us how you really feel about this trade
..__..
{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-

When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hold on....

If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off
grabndabizketz
piglet
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:25 pm

Post by grabndabizketz »

First, I think looking at the one-year remaining on Duckett's contract, I think this is done as insurance but also allows us some flexibility for some trading. Once some cuts start happening around the league, look at the Skins to begin bringing in OL and making a trade or two. I think someone is going (Betts, Sellers, Rock)...

Also, while Lumsden looks good on paper and did well in college and in Canada, I am surprised by how many of you are holding him up so high. He has yet to prove himself, has been injured and while I want him to be what we hope him to be, I think its probably the contrary and he might be a decent special teamer....

By the way, I really like Duckett and think he has multiple qualities that are good to have....I think we got a steal....
Last edited by grabndabizketz on Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mursilis
mursilis
mursilis
Posts: 2415
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:07 pm

Post by Mursilis »

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
air_hog wrote:And quite frankly, I'm getting kind of sick of trading away all our draft picks. I mean, there are always good players still around in the 3rd+4th Rounds of the draft, but we always miss out on them because we never have 3/4 round picks.

This pisses me off too. It always has and will. I believe this is what hurts our depth. We never draft cheap young talent to fill our depth holes. Its not that we can't find anyone, its that we dont look.


I third that motion - in this age of the salary cap, finding cheap hidden gems in the lower rounds is crucial for depth, etc. We're definitely leaving the cupboard bare in that department. While I'm glad to see a big back like Duckett come to this team, I wish they'd dealt Patten instead of a pick. Hopefully, Duckett will sign an extension here, because otherwise trading a pick for a player you only keep for a year is going to look awfully silly.
Fios
The Evil Straw
The Evil Straw
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:30 pm
Location: Leather Chair
Contact:

Post by Fios »

It's so sad that this is the last move the Redskins can make and that there aren't any future situations in which they could possibly gain some picks via trade ... it's also sad that the FO hasn't established a formula determing the relative worth/statistical impact of players taken in mid to late rounds versus a proven starter.
Oh, wait ... neither of those things are true ... has anyone bothered to ask what percentage of players taken outside the second round actually have an appreciable impact, much less even make a roster? Yes, you can look at past drafts and say "Look, see, X player was taken with Y pick and is a starter" but those are the exception, not the rule. I'm not fond of the idea of having NO draft picks but to think these decisions aren't taken in a formulaic fashion is foolish. I assure you the FO knows the approximate value of 3rd and 4th round picks and gives them an appropriate weight.
RIP Sean Taylor
User avatar
1niksder
**********
**********
Posts: 16741
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
Contact:

Post by 1niksder »

Mursilis wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
air_hog wrote:And quite frankly, I'm getting kind of sick of trading away all our draft picks. I mean, there are always good players still around in the 3rd+4th Rounds of the draft, but we always miss out on them because we never have 3/4 round picks.

This pisses me off too. It always has and will. I believe this is what hurts our depth. We never draft cheap young talent to fill our depth holes. Its not that we can't find anyone, its that we dont look.


I third that motion - in this age of the salary cap, finding cheap hidden gems in the lower rounds is crucial for depth, etc. We're definitely leaving the cupboard bare in that department. While I'm glad to see a big back like Duckett come to this team, I wish they'd dealt Patten instead of a pick. Hopefully, Duckett will sign an extension here, because otherwise trading a pick for a player you only keep for a year is going to look awfully silly.

I'm sure everyone was jumping all over a Patten deal with him missing practice yesterday with a hammy and the week he spent in the hospital and most of the season that he missed last year. Patten isn't s easy trade.

The Skins currently have over 30 players on the roster in their 2nd year or less, so the cupboard isn't even close to being bare. Not when you have the likes of Taylor, Cooley, Rogers, Campbell,Ortega,and McIntosh springle in some Nemo, White, Espy, Harvey, Havner, Doughty, Boschetti and Alston. Thats not bad for a team that DOES NOT use the draft to build it's team

I think the Skins would prefer to resign Betts if he stays healthy but if he walks they won't have to go far to sign a replacement (with a year in the system Gibbs may be more willing to give Duckett what he wants next year).

And I see no reason to mention the Salary Cap and the Washington Redskins in the same sentence.
..__..
{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-

When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hold on....

If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off
ii7-V7
~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~
Posts: 1754
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:12 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Post by ii7-V7 »

Fios wrote:It's so sad that this is the last move the Redskins can make and that there aren't any future situations in which they could possibly gain some picks via trade ... it's also sad that the FO hasn't established a formula determing the relative worth/statistical impact of players taken in mid to late rounds versus a proven starter.
Oh, wait ... neither of those things are true ... has anyone bothered to ask what percentage of players taken outside the second round actually have an appreciable impact, much less even make a roster? Yes, you can look at past drafts and say "Look, see, X player was taken with Y pick and is a starter" but those are the exception, not the rule. I'm not fond of the idea of having NO draft picks but to think these decisions aren't taken in a formulaic fashion is foolish. I assure you the FO knows the approximate value of 3rd and 4th round picks and gives them an appropriate weight.


Nuh Uhh.
User avatar
1niksder
**********
**********
Posts: 16741
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
Contact:

Post by 1niksder »

Fios wrote:I'm not fond of the idea of having NO draft picks but to think these decisions aren't taken in a formulaic fashion is foolish. I assure you the FO knows the approximate value of 3rd and 4th round picks and gives them an appropriate weight.


I'll go a step further and say I think they already have projections as to who would be available to select with that pick (although the NCAA season hasn't started)

Cooley and McIntosh were good picks found outside of the 1st round that people could point to... unfortunately we trade other picks to move up to get them. Or they could take the postion that we could have not traded for CP and used that pick on Tatum Bell like the Broncs did... wait a minute he got beat out by a undrafted free agent this year.

The draft is a crap shoot - Gibbs likes vet - "the Dann" likes to spend money. At Redskins Park there are two draft boards one for guys that will be rookies next year and one for guys that have their rookie contracts ending this year.
..__..
{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-

When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hold on....

If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off
User avatar
USAFSkinFan
Hog
Posts: 741
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:54 am
Location: St Louis via Manassas, Va.

Post by USAFSkinFan »

personally I don't like giving up a 3rd round pick for a need I think we could've handled in-house, but that's just my opinion... probably not going to get to see what Sellers could do in those short yardage situations now, but oh well T.J.s a skin now so I'm a fan...
Mursilis
mursilis
mursilis
Posts: 2415
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:07 pm

Post by Mursilis »

1niksder wrote: The draft is a crap shoot - Gibbs likes vet - "the Dann" likes to spend money. At Redskins Park there are two draft boards one for guys that will be rookies next year and one for guys that have their rookie contracts ending this year.


Vets are a crapshoot too. Think about Trotter, Armstead, Carrier, Sanders, Barrow, Candidate, Morton, Jeff George, etc., etc. The list of vets who've come to the 'skins to get paid and little else is a long and sad one.
yupchagee
#14
#14
Posts: 4536
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:50 pm
Location: Louisville KY

Post by yupchagee »

1niksder wrote:Looking at the stats for both back and they are really close...

Ladell vs TJ

Betts Vitals
Height: 5-10
Weight: 223
Born: 08/27/1979
College: Iowa
NFL Experience: 5
Contract Status: Last year

TJ’s Vitals
Height: 6-0
Weight: 254
Born: 02/17/1981
College: Michigan State
NFL Experience: 5
Contract Status: Last year

Bottom Line: Duckett is bigger and younger


Rookie Year:
Betts
G GS Att Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ FD
11 0 65 307 4.7 27 1 4 13
Duckett
12 3 130 507 3.9 33 4 1 28

Bottom Line: Duckett played more started a few games as a rookie and reached the endzone more often

Year 2:
Betts
G GS Att Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ FD
9 1 77 255 3.3 13 2 0 15
Duckett
16 10 197 779 4.0 55 11 5 39

Bottom Line: Duckett build on his rookie year improving in EVERY category, Betts regressed in most.

Year 3:
G GS Att Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ FD
16 1 90 371 4.1 27 1 2 19
Duckett
13 0 104 509 4.9 35 8 6 30

Bottom Line: Betts showed more of what he had showed on year one and Duckett had his least productive year

Last Year:
Betts
G GS Att Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ FD
12 0 89 338 3.8 22 1 1 17
Duckett
14 0 121 380 3.1 25 8 1 24

Bottom Line: The 2004 trend continued for both Backs


IMO Duckett is a bigger, younger Betts. Both are in the last year of their contracts.

So why trade for him and still keep Betts? Because of Betts... a week ago it was talk of him getting a extention, what happen to that? Maybe the Skins felt he was asking too much or weren't sure. They bring in a back in the same boat and let them compete. If they show enough they can be signed during the season and can push each other in practice. If the Skins like them both, they've got a whole season to decide whitch one to throw the money at.

I don't really understand the trade but I don't not like it. :?



Bottom lime:
Betts- 321 carries, 1271 yds 5 TD's
Duckett- 552 carries, 2175 yds, 31 TD's.

I'll take 31 TD's vs 5 almost any day.

TJ scored 8 TD's last yr. Betts has 5 in his career.
Skins fan since '55

"The constitution is not a suicide pact"- Abraham Lincoln
yupchagee
#14
#14
Posts: 4536
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:50 pm
Location: Louisville KY

Post by yupchagee »

Fios wrote:It's so sad that this is the last move the Redskins can make and that there aren't any future situations in which they could possibly gain some picks via trade ... it's also sad that the FO hasn't established a formula determing the relative worth/statistical impact of players taken in mid to late rounds versus a proven starter.
Oh, wait ... neither of those things are true ... has anyone bothered to ask what percentage of players taken outside the second round actually have an appreciable impact, much less even make a roster? Yes, you can look at past drafts and say "Look, see, X player was taken with Y pick and is a starter" but those are the exception, not the rule. I'm not fond of the idea of having NO draft picks but to think these decisions aren't taken in a formulaic fashion is foolish. I assure you the FO knows the approximate value of 3rd and 4th round picks and gives them an appropriate weight.


Why do you think this is the last move we can make?
Skins fan since '55

"The constitution is not a suicide pact"- Abraham Lincoln
Mursilis
mursilis
mursilis
Posts: 2415
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:07 pm

Post by Mursilis »

yupchagee wrote:
Fios wrote:It's so sad that this is the last move the Redskins can make and that there aren't any future situations in which they could possibly gain some picks via trade ... it's also sad that the FO hasn't established a formula determing the relative worth/statistical impact of players taken in mid to late rounds versus a proven starter.
Oh, wait ... neither of those things are true ... has anyone bothered to ask what percentage of players taken outside the second round actually have an appreciable impact, much less even make a roster? Yes, you can look at past drafts and say "Look, see, X player was taken with Y pick and is a starter" but those are the exception, not the rule. I'm not fond of the idea of having NO draft picks but to think these decisions aren't taken in a formulaic fashion is foolish. I assure you the FO knows the approximate value of 3rd and 4th round picks and gives them an appropriate weight.


Why do you think this is the last move we can make?


Check that sarcasm detector, chief! I'm detecting a failure!
MonkInHOF
piglet
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:41 pm

Post by MonkInHOF »

Hmmmm. Lets see. Well i dont hav a problem wit tha trade. We r in a win now year. #rd and 4th round draft picks will not help us win now nor next year. Drafts or a gamble as are trades, hell tha NFL is a gamble. We know wut we r getting in TJ, a back who has yet to live to to his first round expectations, yet a pwerful, bruising and speedy runner tha can score TDs and will in this system. Joe Gibbs is a mastermind with big bruising backs and Al Saunders is an offensive whiz so there r plans for T.J. This is a contract year for both Betts and Duckett and u know wut that does to players. I dont think Betts will b traded. O- 2 in tha preseason dont not make me nervous, continually bringing in talent does. We hav alot of talent on team, but we need cohesivness and consistency to win.
Justice Hog
Pursuer of Justice
Pursuer of Justice
Posts: 5809
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 8:38 pm
Location: Newark, Delaware

Post by Justice Hog »

This trade is "fate". Atlanta drafted Duckett with the 18th overall pick in the 2002 draft. Anyone wanna venture a guess as to who's pick that originally was? Yep - Washington Redskins.
Fran Farren
"Justice Hog"

Newark, DE

“God didn't give us a spirit that is timid but one that is powerful, loving and controlled.” 2 Timothy 1:7
frankcal20
^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^
Posts: 9017
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:52 pm
Contact:

Post by frankcal20 »

Justice Hog wrote:This trade is "fate". Atlanta drafted Duckett with the 18th overall pick in the 2002 draft. Anyone wanna venture a guess as to who's pick that originally was? Yep - Washington Redskins.



Thats just wiered. I think that something may still be in the works.
Mursilis
mursilis
mursilis
Posts: 2415
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:07 pm

Post by Mursilis »

Justice Hog wrote:This trade is "fate". Atlanta drafted Duckett with the 18th overall pick in the 2002 draft. Anyone wanna venture a guess as to who's pick that originally was? Yep - Washington Redskins.


Interesting. And why didn't we have it? I'm not remembering whatever trade or deal me made to ship it away.
User avatar
ArizonaHOG
Hog
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:03 pm
Location: Arizona

Post by ArizonaHOG »

frankcal20 wrote:
Justice Hog wrote:This trade is "fate". Atlanta drafted Duckett with the 18th overall pick in the 2002 draft. Anyone wanna venture a guess as to who's pick that originally was? Yep - Washington Redskins.



Thats just wiered. I think that something may still be in the works.


I was just thinking the same thing. Perhaps we have something in the works for Betts....like a trade of an O-lineman. Pickup Duckett.....sign him to an extension......trade Betts for an O-Lineman. Then we have a bigger, younger back that compliments CP's abilities very well, and we get a backup O-linemen....all for 3rounder (and Betts). Hmmmm???
Beat Dallas!!!
User avatar
DCGloryYears828791
Hog
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:37 pm
Location: DC
Contact:

Post by DCGloryYears828791 »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvgQDM5433U

based on this video, im quite happy with this pickup. The guy has got some wheels on him for a 250lb back.

Whats with all the love for Jessie Lumsden?? he hasn't showed anything?
Dec. 31, 1972
NFC Championship Game at RFK Stadium
W, 26-3
"Just remember this. Forty men together can't lose." George Allen
Chris Luva Luva
---
---
Posts: 18887
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 1:55 pm
Location: AJT
Contact:

Post by Chris Luva Luva »

DCGloryYears828791 wrote:
Whats with all the love for Jessie Lumsden?? he hasn't showed anything?


To who? To those of you who haven't been to training camp and/or the scrimmage.

*awaits the "TC and scrimmage dont mean jack" reply.

Regardless, he's shown flashes of good ability when given the chance. Due to injury and numbers he hasn't had the chance.
The road to the number 1 pick gaining speed!
JPM36
####
####
Posts: 1885
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:41 am
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Post by JPM36 »

DCGloryYears828791 wrote:
Whats with all the love for Jessie Lumsden?? he hasn't showed anything?





Uh oh....
R.I.P. Christopher Wallace (May 21, 1972 - March 9, 1997)

R.I.P. Sean Taylor (April 1, 1983 - November 27, 2007)
Mursilis
mursilis
mursilis
Posts: 2415
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:07 pm

Post by Mursilis »

ArizonaHOG wrote:Pickup Duckett.....sign him to an extension......


This might be tricky; I think he wants some pretty good $. I read in one account of the trade that the skins tried to add another year to Duckett's contract as part of the trade, but he resisted that extension and it wasn't part of the deal. He might want No. 1 RB money to stay in town past this year. Under the terms of the new CBA, if our (or any club's) spending on players is too high, it actually results in a reduction for that team's salary cap for the next year!
User avatar
CPallDAY08
piggie
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:07 pm
Location: Maryland

Post by CPallDAY08 »

DCGloryYears828791 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvgQDM5433U


Wow hes a monster.
frankcal20
^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^
Posts: 9017
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:52 pm
Contact:

Post by frankcal20 »

ok, that video is sick. too bad he did a ton against us on there.
User avatar
die cowboys die
Hog
Posts: 2115
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:37 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Post by die cowboys die »

i don't understand what all the fuss is about draft picks. it doesn't make a difference how you acquire players, it only matters if they are good, if you have enough, and if you can afford them.

to be unhappy that we traded a draft pick for a good player instead of actually drafting him is like being upset because your wife paid cash for your new DVD player instead of writing a check.
User avatar
DCGloryYears828791
Hog
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:37 pm
Location: DC
Contact:

Post by DCGloryYears828791 »

die cowboys die wrote:i don't understand what all the fuss is about draft picks. it doesn't make a difference how you acquire players, it only matters if they are good, if you have enough, and if you can afford them.

to be unhappy that we traded a draft pick for a good player instead of actually drafting him is like being upset because your wife paid cash for your new DVD player instead of writing a check.


ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO

=D> =D> =D> =D>
Dec. 31, 1972
NFC Championship Game at RFK Stadium
W, 26-3
"Just remember this. Forty men together can't lose." George Allen
Post Reply