Should we scratch Sean Taylor?

ANT7088 · Post by **ANT7088** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:11 pm

I don't know what's going on, but I'm starting to scratch Sean Taylor off the list (which really sucks), with the way FA has been (I don't think Griffin & Daniels are the only solutions to our DL problems). Ohalete & Bowen gave alot less problems last year than our DL did. Right now our line is Upshaw, Griffin,(maybe) Noble/Hosley and Daniels/Wynn. That's a little better than last year, but not much better. We need a pass-rushing DE or DT alot more than Safety. I was all for Taylor until I really thought, that DL with a great Safety? We will have big problems. If we leave Bowen & Ohalete and add a pass-rusher with the 1st pick, our D will be alot more solid. I think trading down a few spots is the best way to go, we need to get another pick in the 2nd or 3rd round.

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:15 pm

I dont we should scratch him. I dont want to face this dude twice a year. We already are up againt some stiff comp this coming year.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:25 pm

We need him. I hope we get him. We can get him and a decent end.

hkiss444 · Post by **hkiss444** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:30 pm

Taylor is going to be an All Pro in the NFL. The skins passed on Ed Reed a few years ago; and Taylor is better then Reed. Bowen and Ohalette are solid safeties but will never be all pros. Having Taylor to go along with Smoot and Springs would really help sure up the Defensive backfield.

With that being said, if they can trade down and still get one of the big DTs, Harris or Wilfork and another 1st or 2nd rounder that is too tempting for a team that needs to build with the draft. 3 picks last year and 2 this year will hurt that much more come 2006.

redskins56 · Post by **redskins56** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:48 pm

it's official, scratch him off of the wish list. Any chance we had of getting him vanished when we gave the Broncos the second rounder for Champ, because that ensured that we are going to trade down for more picks...

He's going to be very good, yes, but we have two respectbale starters. We need d-lineman, which is what we'll get.

-Geepz

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:52 pm

There is another safety coming along next year who the experts say would hand Taylor his lunch - I heard it on one of the radio shows before Boss got on there... not the same show, but the archive is gone....

They talked Taylor, then this other kid who went back to finish his senior season...

I like someone who stays in school - good priorities. Supposedly a better athlete. Supposedly a better DB and hitter.

Save the money this year to fix the WORST problem... the DL

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:54 pm

We have to wait and see. I heard the same hype about Doss last year :roll:

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:06 pm

I agree - and Doss is good - he played well for the Colts. I still don't see paying a safety top 10 money when the line is such a problem.

We can't count on Wynn, Upshaw and Noble unless Griffin and Daniels, Washington and Arrington make that much of a difference to free them up. That is what I am hoping will happen, but having someone like Wilfork/Starks/Udeze will make a huge difference when Taylor might make a difference. What good does it have getting a safety when we get burnt for 127 yards rushing and open ourselves to play action (again)? We got killed by that last year - the safeties cinching up to stop the run and getting caught with their pants around their ankles when Edwards had them playing run support - bam - play action, deep pass.

Sorry to say he might be all that you guys are saying he is, but he isn't the answer. Build the core line and watch the entire defense get better. Put a safety in, and he takes away one player on the offense.

It doesn't add up in my opinion.

Redskins4Life · Post by **Redskins4Life** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:10 pm

We should NOT scratch Taylor off. For the simple reason that Taylor will be a guaranteed All-Pro in this league from day 1. Also, our secondary needs help with the departure of Bailey. Springs is great when healthy, but that is a huge concern. He hasn't really been healthy since his pro bowl season in 1998. I'm praying that we sign Marcellus Wiley/Bert Berry just so our DL status sounds like a good DLine, and convince Gibbs to draft Taylor. If we cant grab one of those two, then maybe Daryl Gardner after June when he gets cut by Denver. We need Taylor very bad, and we should not dismiss the possibility of drafting the next Ronnie Lott just because theres a little question mark in our DL situation. It will get better, we're only a few days into Free Agency, give it some time and we will find a good defensive lineman.

cjpck44 · Post by **cjpck44** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:18 pm

I love Taylor but here's two things that I've always heard around the football field.

Pressure=Picks.

Guys can only cover receivers for 4 to 5 seconds max, no matter how good they are.

Taylor may be the best player in the draft, but right now we needs some pressure.

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:22 pm

I am sorry, but guarantees in the draft are like mirages in a desert. A lot of people thought the same about several of our first rounders over the years and they plain downright sucked.

I don't believe we should take him just because we believe he will be guaranteed anything. His workout, which due to reading about it in several places I now believe, stunk the place up with being out of shape and making excuses for it.

I would rather have a Wilfork/Starks in the lineup - Wilfork got his weight under control and worked out very hard and didn't sit on his first round laurels like Taylor did.

Taylor won't help cover the WRs Springs will be unless it is deep help or coming in underneath cause he doesn't have anyone else to cover.

Champ was pro bowl and got burnt pretty badly in several games, some of which made a difference.

DL stops the run and rushes the passer making the ENTIRE defense better, not just shutting one guy down. A good pash rush can make a good back better. A bad pass rush can make the best back look like a bum. (hmm.. nice sig line)

If the opponents run all over us, it wouldn't do us much good to have Taylor making splendid hits in the secondary - that is too late. We need beef... and we need it now to move to the next level.

Without looking them up, can you name any of our safeties on the three superbowl teams and tell me if any were Pro Bowl? Not being nasty, just trying to prove a point....

Now then - who were our DLinemen?

I can name all but one or two at the most. I can't remember for the life of me the names of the safeties - I have educated guesses, but I don't know for sure...

Redskins4Life · Post by **Redskins4Life** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:38 pm

Our new RB Clinton Portis was asked who he thinks the Skins should draft? He replied...
"Sean Taylor, Sean Taylor, Sean Taylor, Sean Taylor...!"
Hopefully Portis can give his 2 cents to Gibbs, and Gibbs will say, "Okay, Clinton knows what hes talking about". And then we draft Sean Taylor.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:38 pm

This in response to The Analyzer - That's true... but Mr Lott sure helped that defence.

Redskins4Life · Post by **Redskins4Life** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:39 pm

Yes Skins Jock, Lott helped out that defense big time. Sean Taylor will do the same.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:49 pm

R4life: I also am an advocate to be better this year BUT I am encouraged that from what Joe has said - he sees a very good team for the next few years! We have to walk before we can run.... and we have to get better next year but I do not think we should lose an opportunity to get a potential like ST! I am also hoping the "the master plan" has contigencies when the players you wanted went elsewhere.
We have to let this develop a little more and have faith that Joe is in charge and he is being advised by some very good people.

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:19 pm

Lott? True - but once again - he made the plays on the WR after they caught the d*mn ball. Or on the RBs after they ran through the line and linebackers.

Put the line there that can scare QBs all day and your average safeties become very good safeties and everyone forgets the blue collar line in front of Taylor in NY.

Lets talk runners and lines - people have claimed Portis ain't that hot cause a good OL pushed bad DL around. The Raiders, the Chiefs, etc. - Sorry - I didn't see them signing safeties. Ted Washington at the Raiders, and I think the Chiefs were getting someone.

The Seahawks got Wistrom cause they needed a pash rush, they didn't go out and get Brock Marion.

Without an OL the QB and RB are useless.

Without a DL the same can be said of the defense.

Every football defensive expert talks about their line play and are adamant about putting the talent there. And the guys I am reading are ex Superbowl winning DCs...

They all talk one thing - pass rushing run stopping defensive lines. They open the holes for blitzers, they cause bad passes, they force fumbles, they improve secondaries.

There is not one coach I have read that hasn't said something to that effect.

HogInBlacksburg · Post by **HogInBlacksburg** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:37 pm

skinsfaninroanoke wrote:

Without looking them up, can you name any of our safeties on the three superbowl teams and tell me if any were Pro Bowl? Not being nasty, just trying to prove a point....

Now then - who were our DLinemen?

I can name all but one or two at the most. I can't remember for the life of me the names of the safeties - I have educated guesses, but I don't know for sure...

Does Alvin Walton ring a bell?

I agree that D-line is priority #1 but, Sean Taylor is too good to pass up..imo. He's awesome. I just don't see a can't miss Dlineman in the draft. Taylor can contribute immediately. My 2 cents

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:38 pm

According to SportingNews' mock draft - this is what they have to say

7 Browns Sean Taylor S Miami, Fla. 6th

(-1) 6/8
With Gallery and Winslow off the board, the Browns would select Taylor. This assumes he improves on his poor Feb. 28 workout; he ran a disappointing 4.53 40-yard dash and appeared out of shape.

Oh - and out of 90+ draft boards - only 18 now have Taylor - most have a DLineman. They have been updated - before it was about 1/2 Taylor, 1/4 Winslow, 1/8th Jones, 1/8th DL

ANT7088 · Post by **ANT7088** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:16 pm

redskins56 wrote:it's official, scratch him off of the wish list. Any chance we had of getting him vanished when we gave the Broncos the second rounder for Champ, because that ensured that we are going to trade down for more picks...

He's going to be very good, yes, but we have two respectbale starters. We need d-lineman, which is what we'll get.

-Geepz

Exactly my point, you explained it better. I want Taylor but we have bigger needs. I'm more pissed we have to face Kearse twice a year. We won't have to face Taylor twice a year anyway. The Giants aren't taken him & he won't be available for The Eagles or Cowboys.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:24 pm

I think we want the same thing! An improved defence and any pressure would be nice considering recent performances.
We just lost CB but Springs and Smoot should be good with an overall better defence! The tackling by our players (and the league) was horrible last year.
I just think that ST should not be ruled out until we see what else develops between now and 4/24.
The June f/a's are another opportunity that I'm sure are being factored in by those that keep up with this stuff.

ANT7088 · Post by **ANT7088** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:33 pm

Once again, I'm gonna stress this, would you rather have a crap DL, 1 great safety & 2 decent safety's OR a GREAT DL and to decent safety's. Anyone that know's anything knows the right answer. Bowen & Ohalete would have been better last year if our DL was better, we had NO pressure and QB's had all day to find a mismatch, eventually a WR will get away from a Safety and make a play (they are not the fastest guys on the field or they would be CBs) thats why Bowen & Ohalete always got burned. Lets not forget Gregg Williams is running the defense now, not George Edwards. Bowen & Ohalete will be better just because of that.

silent1903 · Post by **silent1903** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:43 pm

There is another safety coming along next year who the experts say would hand Taylor his lunch - I heard it on one of the radio shows before Boss got on there... not the same show, but the archive is gone....

So what? Who's to say that we get him next year? You're suggesting passing on Taylor because there's someone better next year? Personally I am hoping we get the no.32 pick next year, not the no.1.

cjpck44 · Post by **cjpck44** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:24 pm

Man I'm still stuck on the safeties of our last 3 superbowl teams. We had Brad Edwards and Danny Copeland on the last one, Alvin Walton and ?? And I don't remember the safeties against Miami at all. (My mom would be slapping me around right now for my lack of knowledge.)

However, Dexter Manly (Mr. Clean his bell, Ring his Clock). and Charles Mann were on some great teams. Charles Mann and Fred Stokes, "Jumpy Geathers" with the forklift move, Butz and the big Daryl Grant, you can sure remember some lineman.

Who were our safeties in 83?

Redskins4Life · Post by **Redskins4Life** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:45 pm

SkinsFanInRoanoke....

About Taylors "bad combine", honestly I dont really fault him too much for coming to the combine out of shape. This last year, I played WR on my football team and during the season I maintained my weight, trained hard, and watched what I ate. As soon as football season was over I ate chips, soda, pizza and other junk. If I was a college player getting ready for the combine, I wouldn't necessarily do that, but I wouldnt try to keep my self in tip top shape either. Unless I was a 350 lb. D-Lineman trying to trim 20 lbs. I wouldnt slave over my weight, speed, health etc. The important thing is that when football season begins your in good shape, and when training camp begins Taylor will be back to his normal 4.44 speed, 20 bench rep. self. He will be a special player from day 1 in the league, and its not fair to judge him by one workout.

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:15 pm

My personal opinion when I played LB was that I didn't want to start from closer to scratch than closer to polished.

I always was in the weight room working on my pyramids and kept myself in shape. I don't understand why all those hours don't mean anything to someone who supposedly wants to be the best.

Not cutting anyone - just my opinion - I don't understand how you can be in top shape then camp on the couch for months, then have to work much harder to get back to it when it is so easy to maintain.

Besides - we are talking two months and if drops from top 5 to top 10 he can lose millions... I don't get it...