Did Ramsey overplay his hand?

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:43 pm

Just curious what you guys thought about this. Given the lack of interest so far for Ramsey, did Ramsey make a huge mistake by expressing his desire to get out of Washington?

It seems to me he would have been better off to remain a backup to Brunell (if that was actually a possibility). He's close with Brunell and its not unlikely he'd have to step in at some point during the season.

Unless the Jets make a deal, I don't see where Ramsey ends up that is such a better situation. He's just going to be a backup on some other team.

The Lions going with Kitna over Ramsey really says it all doesn't it? I don't care what anybody says. Kitna is a Gus Frerotte Journeyman.

spenser · Post by **spenser** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:46 pm

Thats a good question... If he did keep quiet and expressed a willingness to stay mabye he could have seen some playing time and made the most of it with our new weapons and that could have parlayed a good contract and starting job as a FA next year. But it seems appart Gibbs doenst think he is the solution, so he possibly could have been 3rd on the depth chart. I just hope we get somthing/anything for him.

SkinsFanInHawai'i · Post by **SkinsFanInHawai'i** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:47 pm

In hindsight he did, with Brees and Culpepper changing teams and the number of QBs in the draft.

xhadow · Post by **xhadow** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:50 pm

Well that means his worth about as much as Arringtons Jersey on the trade market now ](*,)

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:59 pm

A few points:

1. The Lions decision to do anything, much less sign Kitna, isn't a good measuring stick because Matt Millen is a terrible, terrible GM.
2. He, Kitna, has a track record he can point to and is therefore more valuable to most NFL teams but, again, Millen is an idiot
3. Ramsey expressing a desire to leave is a little overstated in that I've yet to see him say that publicly, the team agreed to move him and anyone who follows football knew Ramsey's future was not in DC
4. The Vikings are also in need of a QB, the Jets are offering a 7th round pick and the Skins won't take it

Mursilis · Post by **Mursilis** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:59 pm

spenser wrote:Thats a good question... If he did keep quiet and expressed a willingness to stay mabye he could have seen some playing time

Oh please. Gibbs would rather watch Brunell chuck it out of bounds 15 times a game than put Ramsey in there. Brunell was clearly hurt and struggling at the end of the season last year, and still he stayed in until someone knocked him out. Same with '04. Brunell got 9 starts to doom the '04 season before he got the hook, and Ramsey only got half a game in '05 before he was benched. He just wants a fair shot. I can't blame him for wanting to leave.

ATV · Post by **ATV** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:01 pm

I, myself, think Ramsey would look good in a Redskins uniform.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:06 pm

I think the biggest factor in our inability to move Ramsey is the huge vote of no confidence he recieved in the first game of the year. Other teams know Gibbs doesn't want him, so why should they give up anything of value for him, regardless of their evaluation of his ability/potential. I also agree with Fios that you are definitely overstating the level at which Ramsey expressed a desire to leave. No one is going to blame the guy for wanting a chance to start.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:17 pm

All very good points...I'll add could it be, as Gibbs also believes, that PR is not a staring QB in the league??

redskinz4ever · Post by **redskinz4ever** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:38 pm

DEHog wrote:All very good points...I'll add could it be, as Gibbs also believes, that PR is not a staring QB in the league??

heck he ahs proven he is NOT a starter in this league.

gottoloveit · Post by **gottoloveit** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:39 pm

he's tough but he is NOT a great QB

TincoSkin · Post by **TincoSkin** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:56 pm

i dont think you can blame ramsey for wanting out and not because he wants playing time.. its not his fault but more a result of circumstance...

gibbs needed a veteren to show cambell the ropes.. ramsey dosnt have enough experience to train the future of the team.

ergo ramsey sat while the vet played and the new kid on the block learned..... cant blame ramsey for wanting out early

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:45 pm

Fios wrote:A few points:

And good points they are.

Fios wrote:1. The Lions decision to do anything, much less sign Kitna, isn't a good measuring stick because Matt Millen is a terrible, terrible GM.

Jon had a #1 pick itching to replace him and Ramsey was the #1 pick itching to play, can see how you can compare the two.

Fios wrote:2. He, Kitna, has a track record he can point to and is therefore more valuable to most NFL teams but, again, Millen is an idiot

The Jets were saying they wanted to take a look at Kitna at the end of the Ramsey visit. Matt may have helped Ramsey and the Skins. If push comes to shove we can tell Matt the truth (he still needs a QB)

Fios wrote:3. Ramsey expressing a desire to leave is a little overstated in that I've yet to see him say that publicly, the team agreed to move him and anyone who follows football knew Ramsey's future was not in DC

Not only has he not publicly said it, he has come out and denied it or simply state he is a Redskin when asked.

Fios wrote:4. The Vikings are also in need of a QB, the Jets are offering a 7th round pick and the Skins won't take it

Oakland has a need for a QB and the Ratbirds would let Ramsey compete for the starting job. The Jet aren't the only team out there. Gibbs wants a 4th this year and a conditional pick next year for a healthy former #1 with who started in the NFL and a rocket for a arm.
Yesterday a former #1 with a rocket for a arm, started in the league for years and a bad leg was traded for a #2 also another guy that is being pushed out by a former #1 (who might not be ready) got $60,000,000.00 to go along with his bad shoulder.

If it were me, I'd hold on to P.Ram up to draftday, if needed to get a #3 or the deal offered the Jets.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:23 am

Well is Culpepper was only worth a #2 in this years draft it is definatly going to drive the price of Remsey down. That just makes sense.

I like Ramsey. I think that he is talented and is going to make a team really happy with what they get. I think that a team like Cleveland should take a shot at him, Oakland, or even San Francisco could possibly look at a QB. I think the main thing to look at is what the level of intest is. If you can't get anything now, hold onto him for security and trade him before the trade dedline. People may say we need to get something but what really is a 7th round pick. Its worth the risk to wait it out and get a player or a pick in next years draft than cut him. Worse case scenerio is we have 4 qb's for the start of the season. We can make adjustments on our team to fill the void.

sch1977 · Post by **sch1977** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:30 am

Mursilis wrote:
spenser wrote:Thats a good question... If he did keep quiet and expressed a willingness to stay mabye he could have seen some playing time

Oh please. Gibbs would rather watch Brunell chuck it out of bounds 15 times a game than put Ramsey in there. Brunell was clearly hurt and struggling at the end of the season last year, and still he stayed in until someone knocked him out. Same with '04. Brunell got 9 starts to doom the '04 season before he got the hook, and Ramsey only got half a game in '05 before he was benched. He just wants a fair shot. I can't blame him for wanting to leave.

Fair shot? He has been here long enough. He has only proven that he can overthrow his receivers, and can't avoid the rush

Warmother · Post by **Warmother** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:39 am

frankcal20 wrote:Well is Culpepper was only worth a #2 in this years draft it is definatly going to drive the price of Remsey down. That just makes sense.

.

Culpepper has 3 busted ligements in the same knee that also took his price down. I'd hold onto Ramsey until they get a better offer. The closer it get's to draft day the more likly a deal will happen.

Mursilis · Post by **Mursilis** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:00 am

sch1977 wrote:
Mursilis wrote:
spenser wrote:Thats a good question... If he did keep quiet and expressed a willingness to stay mabye he could have seen some playing time

Oh please. Gibbs would rather watch Brunell chuck it out of bounds 15 times a game than put Ramsey in there. Brunell was clearly hurt and struggling at the end of the season last year, and still he stayed in until someone knocked him out. Same with '04. Brunell got 9 starts to doom the '04 season before he got the hook, and Ramsey only got half a game in '05 before he was benched. He just wants a fair shot. I can't blame him for wanting to leave.

Fair shot? He has been here long enough. He has only proven that he can overthrow his receivers, and can't avoid the rush

His first two years where under Steve "I don't believe in pass protection" Spurrier, who has yet to develop a QB with any major NFL success, and in his two seasons under a real NFL coach (Gibbs), he really only saw the field in '04, when he was clearly better than Brunell that year statistically and in winning percentage as a starter (50% vs. Brunell's 33%).

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:43 am

Has anyone stopped to think that NY might not be the best place for Ramsey to play? The pressure is rough here in DC, but it probably doesn't compare to the spotlight of playing in the big city, even if it IS for the Jets. Perhaps Gibbs is trying to help orchestrate a deal that is a win-win situation, with Patrick's best interest at heart.

PRam will continue to struggle, until he gets more playing time. I'd hate to see him struggle in front of thousands of fans in NY.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:25 pm

I think PRam isn't a starter for Gibbs, because he's too much of a risk taker. I mean I don't know what Gibbs thinks any more than anyone else, but I have a feeling he thinks Ramsey could play elsewhere, and thrive. Just he has to be in the right situation. Wherever that may be.

frankcal20 wrote:Well is Culpepper was only worth a #2 in this years draft it is definatly going to drive the price of Remsey down. That just makes sense.

But the Culpepper trade wasn't just about ability; you also had to take in Culpepper's monster contract. Today it's not just about talent, it's also about cost.

PRam has no such contract baggage. He's cheap. He's also not very good, but that's besides the point. :wink:

aswas71788 · Post by **aswas71788** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:46 pm

Let's face it, Patrick Ramsey's treatment in Washington has not been that good. He gets to play for Spurrier who put a big target on him and sent out invitations to every team in the league to take their best shot, over and over and over. Spurriers Fun n Gun certainly wasn't a test of anything but the ability to take a hit.Then along comes Gibbs who automatically discounts him and gets Brunell, who immediately proves he sux and then follows it up with a mediocre first half of the year and a replay of the first year for the second half of the year. Ramsey gets told he is the starter by Gibbs and then get yanked in the first half of the first game because of an underhanded hit. From my point of view, Gibbs should be ashamed of himself for leading Ramsey along like he did.

No where in that scenario has Ramsey had a chance to mature as a quarterback. Why would anyone think that he would want to stay in Washington? If he goes to NYJ's, he may be a backup but the odds of Pennington playing more than a couple games before he gets hurt again isn't that good.Ramsey certainly got submarined when Bress and Culpepper moved as did young and Leinhart.

Ramsey will be somewhere else at the start of next season either via trade or release. I hope he gets treated better thaere than he did here.

jazzyjimmy · Post by **jazzyjimmy** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:05 pm

Ramsey's treatment in Washington was awful but I gotta agree with Riggofan that he would have a better chance of starting on a winning team than in any of the situations that may be available to him now. Brunell has been slowed down by nagging injuries for the last 2 seasons. He very well may go down and Ramsey could be the starter on a really good team. I don't think any of us could blame the guy for wanting to be a starter elsewhere but he may end up on a bad team where he doesn't start 1 game.

GoSkins · Post by **GoSkins** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:48 pm

Ramsey's value seems to mirror Gardner's value last year. The team tried to accomodate the players but the market wasn't really that interested. I hope we get more than we did for Gardner.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:05 pm

redskinz4ever wrote:
DEHog wrote:All very good points...I'll add could it be, as Gibbs also believes, that PR is not a staring QB in the league??
heck he ahs proven he is NOT a starter in this league.

Why don't you try to prove Ramsey is not a starter is this league by the use of a few facts. Can't do it? I didn't think so.

GoSkins · Post by **GoSkins** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:49 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:
redskinz4ever wrote:
DEHog wrote:All very good points...I'll add could it be, as Gibbs also believes, that PR is not a staring QB in the league??
heck he ahs proven he is NOT a starter in this league.

Why don't you try to prove Ramsey is not a starter is this league by the use of a few facts. Can't do it? I didn't think so.

Here's a fact. No team in the NFL has traded for Ramsey. And rest assured we would take a 3rd rounder for him.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:03 pm

Gibbs recently said that he would try to do what is best for Ramsey and also what is best for the team. I am fairly sure that he made that statement after we got Collins. I would take that to mean that Gibbs has not received a "fair" offer for Ramsey.

Maybe Gibbs thinks Ramsey is a better QB than all those teams that are interested in a QB. I think Gibbs knows a bit about what Ramsey is worth and feels that at this time we might just wait and see what happens. We do not have to move Ramsey just to get a draft pick.

I am glad that Gibbs is making that decision and not a lot of people here who obviously know very little about how good Ramsey is.

Ramsey is going to help some team and he's still a Redskin. That team may be us!