High Profile Signings Continue... big step backwards

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:59 am

Why did the Redskins sign Randle El?

It makes NO sense! 31 million base with 11 million in bonuses?

Hey everyone, guess how many TD passes he caught last year?

Answer, ONE! ONE TOUCHDOWN!

He's played four seasons now of 16 games, guess how many seasons he's had with 50 or more catches?

NONE!

Okay, guess how many seasons he's had over 650 yards recieving...

NONE!

Guess how many seasons he's had with 16 yards per catch....

NONE!

He's a solid return man, I'll give him that, but as an offensive weapon, he's an interesting #3 at the most, and we paid him WAY, WAY too much. We already have Moss, Lloyd and Patten at the 1, 2, and 3... now we dump a pile of money in front of Randle El instead of in front of John Abraham, Andre Carter, Julian Peterson, or someone to help shore up the defense?

We just made a move for the sake of making a move, we're back to earning that reputation of overspending on guys and trying to buy titles... Way to go Danny.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:02 pm

I'm guessing you would prefer some defensive pickups....

Chill out you don't even know the details of the contract, when was the last time a player got what the signed for?

Redskins1974 · Post by **Redskins1974** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:06 pm

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

Seriously, every offseason if we don't do anything, everyone freaks out. Yet when we do something, everyone complains. I agree Randel El is a luxury item but he's young, as are most of the people we're going after right now.

The high profile players in the past, especially 2000, were old vets on the down side of their careers. Almost everyone we're going after now are young guys on the upswing of their careers.

Just my 2 cents... Chill out and just be happy we're able to go after free agents, etc. since the CBA was completed.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:07 pm

Randle El's next highest offer was like 18 million dollars... It's idiotic that we paid so much for him!

Lloyd is the best option at #2 reciever, but we paid ARE so much that we might be forced to play him in an expanded role.

Redskins1974 · Post by **Redskins1974** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:12 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:Randle El's next highest offer was like 18 million dollars... It's idiotic that we paid so much for him!

Lloyd is the best option at #2 reciever, but we paid ARE so much that we might be forced to play him in an expanded role.

For how many years? What were the details of the contract? I don't think you can put two contracts together and compare if you don't know/list all the details of the contracts together.

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:13 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:Why did the Redskins sign Randle El?

It makes NO sense! 31 million base with 11 million in bonuses?

Hey everyone, guess how many TD passes he caught last year?

Answer, ONE! ONE TOUCHDOWN!

He's played four seasons now of 16 games, guess how many seasons he's had with 50 or more catches?

NONE!

Okay, guess how many seasons he's had over 650 yards recieving...

NONE!

Guess how many seasons he's had with 16 yards per catch....

NONE!

He's a solid return man, I'll give him that, but as an offensive weapon, he's an interesting #3 at the most, and we paid him WAY, WAY too much. We already have Moss, Lloyd and Patten at the 1, 2, and 3... now we dump a pile of money in front of Randle El instead of in front of John Abraham, Andre Carter, Julian Peterson, or someone to help shore up the defense?

We just made a move for the sake of making a move, we're back to earning that reputation of overspending on guys and trying to buy titles... Way to go Danny.

He had 35 catches last year, but was only thrown to 69 times. Of those 69 times, he only dropped 3, meaning that he made the most of his opportunities. Sounds a lot like the Moss we got from the Jets.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:13 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:Randle El's next highest offer was like 18 million dollars... It's idiotic that we paid so much for him!

Without knowing the details of the contract, I don't think it's fair to label it "idiotic". We already know that the last year is voidable, and I'm sure that it is backloaded to some extent, so that makes up a bit of the difference.

I would agree that it doesn't look good at the surface. But unlike the horrible acquisitions of the past, Randle El is still young, and only has one full season of starting under his belt. You can bet that the Redskins are counting on Randle El improving in the future - and that is a pretty reasonable assumption. At the age of 27 (when the season starts), Randle El will be entering the prime of his career. If we are overpaying, at least we are overpaying for his best years.

Also, did this little tirade really deserve its own thread?

dredg · Post by **dredg** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:15 pm

Did you say the same thing about Santana's contract last year?

Looking at the long list of key players Gibbs has acquired via free agency or via trade/contract extension, and the list of free agent busts he's signed (0.), maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt here.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:16 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:Randle El's next highest offer was like 18 million dollars... It's idiotic that we paid so much for him!

Lloyd is the best option at #2 reciever, but we paid ARE so much that we might be forced to play him in an expanded role.

That was $18M over 4 years, again you don't know the break down of the contract. Players aren't looking at the total of these contract -it's what the can get up front.

Lloyd was pickup prior to ARE so his contract had to have been in place so maybe he took money out of El's pocket, again we don't know because we didn't negotiate the contracts.

As far as ARE playing a expanded role, you bet he will. He'll return punts (this will free up a roster spot and about a half million in cap room). He'll take preasure off of Moss during crunch time, that will expand the options of the QB

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:22 pm

JansenFan wrote:
Skinsfan55 wrote:Why did the Redskins sign Randle El?

It makes NO sense! 31 million base with 11 million in bonuses?

Hey everyone, guess how many TD passes he caught last year?

Answer, ONE! ONE TOUCHDOWN!

He's played four seasons now of 16 games, guess how many seasons he's had with 50 or more catches?

NONE!

Okay, guess how many seasons he's had over 650 yards recieving...

NONE!

Guess how many seasons he's had with 16 yards per catch....

NONE!

He's a solid return man, I'll give him that, but as an offensive weapon, he's an interesting #3 at the most, and we paid him WAY, WAY too much. We already have Moss, Lloyd and Patten at the 1, 2, and 3... now we dump a pile of money in front of Randle El instead of in front of John Abraham, Andre Carter, Julian Peterson, or someone to help shore up the defense?

We just made a move for the sake of making a move, we're back to earning that reputation of overspending on guys and trying to buy titles... Way to go Danny.

He had 35 catches last year, but was only thrown to 69 times. Of those 69 times, he only dropped 3, meaning that he made the most of his opportunities. Sounds a lot like the Moss we got from the Jets.

Last year, including the playoffs, Roethlesburger only made 30+ passing attempts in a game TWICE. In five games he threw the ball 19 times or less! Couldn't that explain some of why Randle El only made 35 catches. Saunders is going to give him a lot more chances to get the ball in his hands.

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:23 pm

1niksder wrote:He'll return punts (this will free up a roster spot and about a half million in cap room).

Wow, great point! I never thought of the cap ramifications of that.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:29 pm

As I explained in another thread, Randle El was offered 18 million plus a 8 million signing bonus for 6 years.

We offered 31 million with an 11.5 bonus over 7 years (where the 7th year is voidable)

We overpaid, and now have a very expensive reciever who has NEVER produced anything (unlike Moss who had a year of 1100+ yards and 10 TD's already when we got him) and who's BEST attribute is as a kick returner.

Whoop de do.

We need a DE and an OLB, having ARE is nice, but totally unneeded

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:30 pm

hkHog wrote:Last year, including the playoffs, Roethlesburger only made 30+ passing attempts in a game TWICE. In five games he threw the ball 19 times or less! Couldn't that explain some of why Randle El only made 35 catches. Saunders is going to give him a lot more chances to get the ball in his hands.

Yeah, Pittsburgh only attempted 379 passes, the fewest in the leauge. If you adjust Randle El's numbers to the Redskins attempts (481), you get:

44 catches, 708 yards, 1 TD

And if you adjust for the league average (500.8), you get:

46 catches, 737 yards, 1 TD

Still nothing amazing, but certainly better - and again, he is just now entering his prime. There is no reason to believe his production will level off. (Also, the 49ers were second to last in the league with just 389 attempts, so you would see similar jumps for Brandon Lloyd.)

Skinsfan55 wrote:We need a DE and an OLB, having ARE is nice, but totally unneeded

So if we still sign Andre Carter acquire an N.D. Kalu/John Abraham, you will be fine with it?

Overpaying is only a problem if it limits our ability to acquire other players, and the early indications are that we still have plenty of juice left.

spenser · Post by **spenser** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:34 pm

I agree at first glance it would appear that we have just overpaid and made just another big name signing. But... In addition to all the reasons allready stated (young,talented,will get better,free up kick return spot, etc) I believe the team knows what it is doing. I have been waiting for about 4 years now for our "Cap Hell" and still havnt seen it. So im sure the team has a good idea about how much the cap will go up in future years and is keeping in mind their philophsy of looking down the road 3 years on the moves they make. Although the media tries to make them look rash and as Fat lenny loves to say "ham handed", Gibbs, snyder, Williams and Co. are not idiots. They will continue to restructure, cut, trade and do what they need to to get us a competitive squad year in and year out. Hopefully.... And if these aquistions win us a superbowl in the next few years then Kudos to them!

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:34 pm

Yeah, a tad bit better, but he's not worth all this money...

You know who WOULD be worth the money? John Abraham who is visiting the Redskins today...

I am praying there's some way we can trade Randel El for him... but that's probably illegal.

jazzyjimmy · Post by **jazzyjimmy** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:51 pm

Getting John Abraham would be great but I would be plenty happy if we could have added Archuleta AND kept Ryan Clark. We overpaid for a very mediocre recevier.

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:54 pm

spenser wrote:Although the media tries to make them look rash and as Fat lenny loves to say "ham handed", Gibbs, snyder, Williams and Co. are not idiots. They will continue to restructure, cut, trade and do what they need to to get us a competitive squad year in and year out. Hopefully.... And if these aquistions win us a superbowl in the next few years then Kudos to them!

I have to say that over the last two years our FO has been as good as any in the league. Look at the moves they made.

Instead of letting Bailey go (he didn't want to be around) we traded him and a 2nd for Portis. It was a lot but we got what we needed and it is unlikely that you will find a RB as good as Portis in the 2nd round. Last year he had a significantly better year than Warrick Dunn and should have been in the Pro Bowl and he finished fourth in the NFL in rushing. What's more, he is the centerpiece, the heart, and the soul of this team. You aren't going to build a team around Bailey and a 2nd round pick.

We traded a 3rd round pick for Brunell. It seemed bad at first but last year he had a Pro Bowl calibre year and was significantly better than Vick.

We signed Washington, he went to the Pro Bowl that year.

We signed Springs, that old, washed up, injury prone CB. Now, he's clearly one of the best players at his position in the NFL. Champ Bailey, who's that?

We signed Griffin who is just a beast and should have been in the Pro Bowl two years ago. We signed Salave'a as well.

We signed Daniels who suffered through some injuries before becoming one of our key contributors during our playoff run.

We drafted Cool

ey and Taylor. Cool

ey was robbed of a spot in the Pro Bowl last year and Taylor is an emerging superstar.

We signed Raybach. Despite a bad holding penalty he was solid all year and our line really began to gel.

We traded Coles for Moss. What a stupid move, everybody knew Moss wasn't a real #1 and he was grossly overpaid. Well, he only went to the Pro Bowl and was the second best WR in the league!

We drafted Carlos Rogers, huge upgrade over Smoot and a future Pro Bowler - in a couple games this year I thought he was the best player on the field.

Look at all those moves we've made. Almost every guy not only worked out but have had Pro Bowl quality years since being signed. That track record is just incredible! Portis, Moss, Brunell, Cool

ey, Washington, Springs, Taylor, Rogers, Griffin,... And yet our FO still gets no respect!

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:58 pm

Imagine how much better we would be with a good front office. </sarcasm>

BossHog · Post by **BossHog** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:00 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:Yeah, a tad bit better, but he's not worth all this money...

You know who WOULD be worth the money? John Abraham who is visiting the Redskins today...

I am praying there's some way we can trade Randel El for him... but that's probably illegal.

Well why would we trade Randle El and not a commodity they might be after like Patrick Ramsey?

Trading Ramsey alone saves 1.7M in cap space, and with signing bonuses and annuals the way they are, that should be almost enough cap room to cover Abraham this year with a contract re-structure.

I would imagine we'll have to sweeten the pot with a pretty good draft pick though.

But then what will you complain about?

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:14 pm

BossHog wrote:I would imagine we'll have to sweeten the pot with a pretty good draft pick though.

But then what will you complain about?

No first day picks. :lol:

BossHog · Post by **BossHog** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:25 pm

Coming soon to a thread near you...

Buzz Dog · Post by **Buzz Dog** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:37 pm

Here's two serious Redskin haters on the subject:

Clark Judge -

The Redskins paid him what? I like this guy, too, but more as a third receiver and a special-teams gamebreaker. So paying him $31 million makes absolutely no sense to me. Of course, I don't understand paying assistant coaches $2 million each, either. But these are the Redskins, and they were determined to beef up their offense now that Al Saunders is in town and after they had time to digest films of the playoffs when the defense carried them. Randle El is versatile. He can return punts. He can make catches. He can throw passes. But he's not a difference maker. If he were Pittsburgh wouldn't have let him walk. Remember, this is the team that three years ago paid Laveranues Coles a $13 million signing bonus -- only to return to sender two years later. He gives Washington depth at the position but little more.

Pete Prisco -

After trading for Brandon Lloyd Saturday, the Redskins spent big to land Randle El on Sunday. That is a major question mark in my mind. Randle El had 35 catches last year as a No. 2 receiver for the Steelers. Does that warrant a seven-year deal with $12 million in guaranteed money? Please. We know the Redskins are desperate for help to go with Santana Moss, but paying that kind of money for a guy who has never been a top receiver on his team is crazy -- Dan Snyder crazy. There are some Steelers coaches who wonder if he's even ready to be a No. 3 receiver. Remember Az-Zahir Hakim when he left the Rams to sign with the Lions. He was never good enough to be a go-to receiver. Neither is Randle El. The Redskins blew this one.

wormer · Post by **wormer** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:47 pm

As has been said, it's difficult to judge this w/out the details. My guess is it is severely back loaded. Even w/out the back loading, on face it is 4.42 mil per year vs. 3 mill (bears offer) So only 1.4 mill more.

That being said, I think the tools he brings to the table are different than pretty much any other WR in the league making it difficult to scheme for.

Certainly there will be more for teams to prep for given his excellent passing and rushing abilities.

He can run the reverse very well which should open things up for Moss to do the same. He can pass from the reverse. You can put him under center where he is a multi threat - Will he drop back and pass? Will he run a QB Draw? Will he run an option/keeper? Will he hand off to CP? Will he fake hand off to CP and run a boot leg?

Imagine the fun Gibbs and Saunders will have drawing up plays for this guy!!!

Plus, he seems like a guy who is driven to win! (just my impression)

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:49 pm

Buzz Dog wrote:Here's two serious Redskin haters on the subject:

Read my signature.

tvo14 · Post by **tvo14** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:02 pm

None of the Steelers receivers did much. The are run oriented offense.

The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

High Profile Signings Continue... big step backwards

High Profile Signings Continue... big step backwards

Re: High Profile Signings Continue... big step backwards

Re: High Profile Signings Continue... big step backwards

Re: High Profile Signings Continue... big step backwards