Free Agent Fallout

[SirSmizzy]

When I first got here we had some intresting discussions about what would be the fallout of breaking the bank on every single free agent on the market.

Do you still feel it was great idea to mortgage the future ?

I believe the skins are 1 of 4 teams still not under the salary cap. Any concerns about getting under and signing free agents?


Now this is a serious topic,not a flame thread. Just curious on how you guys feel 3 yrs later. Please don't take it the wrong way.

[1niksder]

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... 0&start=10

The Skins are just waiting on the weekend

[portis26]

Like the article says, we haven't cut anyone besides Arrington yet. Once we cut Raymer, Bowen, Noble, and Harris we will be under. Plus, once we restructure a couple of other players will have enough room to make a couple of moves in the free agent market.

[1niksder]

We are about $7M over the cap and cutting Matt Bowen, Walt Harris, Brandon Noble and Cory Raymer will save about $6.7 million under the cap.

Rumor has it that the team had reworked enough contracts to cut $13M off the cap if there were no CBA resolution. That would have been done with only 4 years to pro-rate any monies. Now they have a extra year

I guess you all have to go back to the OLD story line....

The Redskins will be in cap hell in two years.

[die cowboys die]

When I first got here we had some intresting discussions about what would be the fallout of breaking the bank on every single free agent on the market.

Do you still feel it was great idea to mortgage the future ?

I believe the skins are 1 of 4 teams still not under the salary cap. Any concerns about getting under and signing free agents?


Now this is a serious topic,not a flame thread. Just curious on how you guys feel 3 yrs later. Please don't take it the wrong way.

the only problem with those lavish signings was the fact that those guys didn't perform. financially, we are no worse off than anyone else right now. we finished paying off pretty much all of those mistakes in 2005. and obviously it was never that bad in the first place because we've been able to keep signing people. the fact that we almost had a big cap problem because of the CBA issue means nothing- it was expected by everyone for years that the CBA would be extended this year, upping the salary cap. we've properly budgeted and planned by those expected numbers. now the cap is up, and we're fine.

With the 30-2 vote to approve the new CBA, the NFL owners gave the Redskins more options for 2006. The cap went up to $102 million. More importantly, the Redskins can utilize their original plan to convert about a half a dozen players' roster bonuses into guaranteed money, spreading the cap impact of them out over the next several years. This maneuver would not have been possible to execute without a CBA extension without some other adjustments to those players' contracts.

Those conversions, LaVar Arrington 's release agreement and some other player releases will get the Redskins somewhere between $10 and $15 million under the cap and able to start addressing some needs via free agency.

the reason we are constantly pushing the cap is because our owner actually gives a fudge about our team. the only teams that DON'T have any cap concerns are the ones that are owned by miserly losers who don't care about winning.

[1niksder]

Some 48 hours after being on the brink of being very limited in the free agent market, the Redskins are breathing much easier. Thanks to the CBA extension, with a few simple moves and player releases, the Redskins will be able to create plenty of cap space to fill their needs. Our resident Capologist looks at the potential moves and adds up the savings.


In Joe Gibbs own words “We (the Redskins) are very aggressive in free agency”. With the chances of an extension to the CBA looking in the balance for the last week, the Redskins could have been looking at an offseason of restraint instead of aggressive buying. However, when the owners agreed to the last obstacle in the way of a new labor agreement - a revenue sharing deal – on Wednesday evening, the Redskins were back in an “aggressive mood”.

With the new labor agreement now in place, the restrictions of the 30 percent rule and the prorating of bonus monies for only 4 years are washed away, so the Redskins can look at creating cap space to be an active player if free agency.

The first order of business is getting under the new cap limit for 2006 which has been set at $102.0m and we will start at the figure of $115.5m. Three occurrences have helped the Skins already without having to barely raise a finger:

The mutually agreed release of LaVar Arrington and his killer contract (saving nearly $4.3m off his previous cap figure)
The automatic spreading of option bonuses due in 2006 over the next 5 years instead of 4 (for those players who will have 5+ years left on their contracts after the options are exercised), saving $1.2m. The players involved Santana Moss (.350m savings), Chris Samuels (.350m), Casey Rabach (.1m) and Carlos Rogers (.4m), and
The automatic voiding of likely to be earned (LTBE) incentive clauses tied to “no new CBA” in the contracts of Samuels ($3.5m), David Patten (.6m), Rabach ($1.6m) and Renaldo Wynn (0.4m), totalling $6.0m in savings.
The team has also tendered offers to three of its restricted free agents at the lower tender of .712m – Dockery, Jimoh and Chris Clemons.

This would leave the team at a cap figure of $105.4m, just $3.4m over the cap.

The Redskins also have 8 key players who have large roster bonuses due in 2006 (totalling $13.650m) that could be guaranteed and spread out over the remaining life of the contract or to 2010 if the tenure is longer. This move would result in a further $10.4m in savings for 2006, bringing the Redskins into cap compliance with $7m in cap space already created.

All this and the team has yet to cut or trade a player in the process.

So what other moves could assist in creating additional cap space and potential free agent dollars? Those likely to happen are the following:

Patrick Ramsey could be traded (saving $1.7m)
Brandon Noble ($1.7m), Cory Raymer ($1.0m), Matt Bowen ($2.0m), Tom Tupa (.6m) and Walt Harris ($2.0m) will probably be released within the next 48 hours (saving $7.3m)
Jon Jansen and Randy Thomas could undertake a basic 2006 base salary to bonus conversion restructure in thier contracts that could save a further $5.1m.
If all these moves were made (allowing for replacement of released players under the Rule of 51), another $12.2m would be saved, pushing the projected cap number down to $19.2m below the NFL limit.

The Redskins may also be eligible for LTBE incentive cap credits carried over from 2005 would increase this gap even further.

So Washington has plenty of cap room to pursue its needs in free agency in 2006

$19.2m below the NFL limit

[John Manfreda]

When I first got here we had some intresting discussions about what would be the fallout of breaking the bank on every single free agent on the market.

Do you still feel it was great idea to mortgage the future ?

I believe the skins are 1 of 4 teams still not under the salary cap. Any concerns about getting under and signing free agents?


Now this is a serious topic,not a flame thread. Just curious on how you guys feel 3 yrs later. Please don't take it the wrong way.

Why don't you worry about your team winning more than 4 games next year.

[SirSmizzy]

When I first got here we had some intresting discussions about what would be the fallout of breaking the bank on every single free agent on the market.

Do you still feel it was great idea to mortgage the future ?

I believe the skins are 1 of 4 teams still not under the salary cap. Any concerns about getting under and signing free agents?


Now this is a serious topic,not a flame thread. Just curious on how you guys feel 3 yrs later. Please don't take it the wrong way.

Why don't you worry about your team winning more than 4 games next year.

Thanks for your input.

[hkHog]

Some 48 hours after being on the brink of being very limited in the free agent market, the Redskins are breathing much easier. Thanks to the CBA extension, with a few simple moves and player releases, the Redskins will be able to create plenty of cap space to fill their needs. Our resident Capologist looks at the potential moves and adds up the savings.


In Joe Gibbs own words “We (the Redskins) are very aggressive in free agency”. With the chances of an extension to the CBA looking in the balance for the last week, the Redskins could have been looking at an offseason of restraint instead of aggressive buying. However, when the owners agreed to the last obstacle in the way of a new labor agreement - a revenue sharing deal – on Wednesday evening, the Redskins were back in an “aggressive mood”.

With the new labor agreement now in place, the restrictions of the 30 percent rule and the prorating of bonus monies for only 4 years are washed away, so the Redskins can look at creating cap space to be an active player if free agency.

The first order of business is getting under the new cap limit for 2006 which has been set at $102.0m and we will start at the figure of $115.5m. Three occurrences have helped the Skins already without having to barely raise a finger:

The mutually agreed release of LaVar Arrington and his killer contract (saving nearly $4.3m off his previous cap figure)
The automatic spreading of option bonuses due in 2006 over the next 5 years instead of 4 (for those players who will have 5+ years left on their contracts after the options are exercised), saving $1.2m. The players involved Santana Moss (.350m savings), Chris Samuels (.350m), Casey Rabach (.1m) and Carlos Rogers (.4m), and
The automatic voiding of likely to be earned (LTBE) incentive clauses tied to “no new CBA” in the contracts of Samuels ($3.5m), David Patten (.6m), Rabach ($1.6m) and Renaldo Wynn (0.4m), totalling $6.0m in savings.
The team has also tendered offers to three of its restricted free agents at the lower tender of .712m – Dockery, Jimoh and Chris Clemons.

This would leave the team at a cap figure of $105.4m, just $3.4m over the cap.

The Redskins also have 8 key players who have large roster bonuses due in 2006 (totalling $13.650m) that could be guaranteed and spread out over the remaining life of the contract or to 2010 if the tenure is longer. This move would result in a further $10.4m in savings for 2006, bringing the Redskins into cap compliance with $7m in cap space already created.

All this and the team has yet to cut or trade a player in the process.

So what other moves could assist in creating additional cap space and potential free agent dollars? Those likely to happen are the following:

Patrick Ramsey could be traded (saving $1.7m)
Brandon Noble ($1.7m), Cory Raymer ($1.0m), Matt Bowen ($2.0m), Tom Tupa (.6m) and Walt Harris ($2.0m) will probably be released within the next 48 hours (saving $7.3m)
Jon Jansen and Randy Thomas could undertake a basic 2006 base salary to bonus conversion restructure in thier contracts that could save a further $5.1m.
If all these moves were made (allowing for replacement of released players under the Rule of 51), another $12.2m would be saved, pushing the projected cap number down to $19.2m below the NFL limit.

The Redskins may also be eligible for LTBE incentive cap credits carried over from 2005 would increase this gap even further.

So Washington has plenty of cap room to pursue its needs in free agency in 2006

$19.2m below the NFL limit

Yes, we can absolutely get below the limit WITHOUT having to cut anyone! All we have to do is guarantee some roster bonuses and we'll be home free. What's more, our cap problem has been almost completely reigned in. I believe that right now our cap figure for 2007 is something like 93 mil though I might be wrong.

Bottom line is that in recent years the 'Skins have been a lot more responsable and it's beginning to pay off. They took a gamble on the renewal of the CBA and fortunately it panned out so they are now home free. People can no longer claim that we have mortgaged our future.

EDIT: Yes, here we go, the rest of the article:

2007 impact

At this point in time the Redskins have 51 players under contract in 2007 with Ladell Betts and Ethan Albright being the only notable UFA’s. These players currently count $93.730m – and that’s before any 2006 roster bonuses or other contract maniplutions are taken into account. The NFL salary cap in 2007 is predicted at around $109.0m. However, the new labor deal contains a mechanism to adjust the salary cap based on how much the teams collectively spend on player compensation. If the teams collectively spend more than the salary cap in a season -- which is possible since the cap is a flexible spending limit -- the cap would be automatically adjusted downward in subsequent seasons. If the teams collectively spend less than the salary cap in a season, the cap would be automatically adjusted upward in the future.

http://redskins.scout.com/2/507127.html

[SkinsJock]

..Do you still feel it was great idea to mortgage the future?

I think that perception is in the eye of the beholder! Yes we made some financial mistakes in judging the production or worth of the players signed but we never saw the complete doom that was always predicted. We seemed to make some bad judgements in players but this never really hurt us as bad as some of the coaches that were coaching those mistakes IMO.

..I believe the skins are 1 of 4 teams still not under the salary cap. Any concerns about getting under and signing free agents?

NO! nada! none!

We have much better control of our destiny with this group and would seem to be one of the top 10 teams in the NFL again right now.

It is so great to be a Redskin fan again.


Thanks for the question Smizz, and I hope that your team can get itself back to respectability soon. Looks like you guys have a lot of work to do to be competitive at the top level again - but you know what, you can hope - "any given Sunday, any team can win!" Sunday is a good day for praying too!

[KPrince1975]

I think that Smizzy is forgetting that we have a certain Hall Of Fame Coach-Joe Gibbs in charge now. Gibbs doesn't believe in chance you see. He is a problem solver and that means he does every stinkin thing he can do, to take possibilities and make them definites.

Gibbs will succeed in whatever he endeavors in life because he knows the rules for being successful.

It's not a puzzle, Smizzy, but maybe your Jets might have to wait until he writes a book about how to win, before your team can figure it out

[Redskins Rule]

When I first got here we had some intresting discussions about what would be the fallout of breaking the bank on every single free agent on the market.

Do you still feel it was great idea to mortgage the future ?

I believe the skins are 1 of 4 teams still not under the salary cap. Any concerns about getting under and signing free agents?


Now this is a serious topic,not a flame thread. Just curious on how you guys feel 3 yrs later. Please don't take it the wrong way.

Thanks for the question Smizzy. To be completely honest whenever I hear about the Redskins having cap trouble I just laugh at it and move on. All of the "experts" say that we are going to be in cap hell year after year after year. And of course they're wrong year after year after year. For some strange reason I just laugh at it now I don't know why though. I mean, they are the "experts".

Maybe you should laugh at it too! And maybe you should watch how Danny and Vinny handle the salary cap. You will learn something!

[Fios]

When I first got here we had some intresting discussions about what would be the fallout of breaking the bank on every single free agent on the market.

Do you still feel it was great idea to mortgage the future ?

I believe the skins are 1 of 4 teams still not under the salary cap. Any concerns about getting under and signing free agents?


Now this is a serious topic,not a flame thread. Just curious on how you guys feel 3 yrs later. Please don't take it the wrong way.

How should I be expected to take this? It's the equivalent of going on a Jets board and saying "all your moves have been awful, you gave away a great coach and your QB is brittle, any regrets?"

[1niksder]

Yes, we can absolutely get below the limit WITHOUT having to cut anyone! All we have to do is guarantee some roster bonuses and we'll be home free. What's more, our cap problem has been almost completely reigned in. I believe that right now our cap figure for 2007 is something like 93 mil though I might be wrong.

Bottom line is that in recent years the 'Skins have been a lot more responsable and it's beginning to pay off. They took a gamble on the renewal of the CBA and fortunately it panned out so they are now home free. People can no longer claim that we have mortgaged our future.

EDIT: Yes, here we go, the rest of the article:

2007 impact

At this point in time the Redskins have 51 players under contract in 2007 with Ladell Betts and Ethan Albright being the only notable UFA’s. These players currently count $93.730m – and that’s before any 2006 roster bonuses or other contract maniplutions are taken into account. The NFL salary cap in 2007 is predicted at around $109.0m. However, the new labor deal contains a mechanism to adjust the salary cap based on how much the teams collectively spend on player compensation. If the teams collectively spend more than the salary cap in a season -- which is possible since the cap is a flexible spending limit -- the cap would be automatically adjusted downward in subsequent seasons. If the teams collectively spend less than the salary cap in a season, the cap would be automatically adjusted upward in the future.

http://redskins.scout.com/2/507127.html

The $93.730m mentioned in the article doesn't take into account the signing that will take place starting tonight, so the number will go up based on bonus pro-rations. Then again that number also includes $6.438M cap hit Lavar would have cost the team in 2007 so number is more like $85.8M or pretty close until 12:01am

[SirSmizzy]

..Do you still feel it was great idea to mortgage the future?

I think that perception is in the eye of the beholder! Yes we made some financial mistakes in judging the production or worth of the players signed but we never saw the complete doom that was always predicted. We seemed to make some bad judgements in players but this never really hurt us as bad as some of the coaches that were coaching those mistakes IMO.

..I believe the skins are 1 of 4 teams still not under the salary cap. Any concerns about getting under and signing free agents?

NO! nada! none!

We have much better control of our destiny with this group and would seem to be one of the top 10 teams in the NFL again right now.

It is so great to be a Redskin fan again.


Thanks for the question Smizz, and I hope that your team can get itself back to respectability soon. Looks like you guys have a lot of work to do to be competitive at the top level again - but you know what, you can hope - "any given Sunday, any team can win!" Sunday is a good day for praying too!

We have tons of work to get where the skins are right now. Mangini inherited a mess and has cleaned it up in a short time. It should be a while before we are competitive.

Skins FO got under the cap and will have money to add more Gibbs type guys. Good luck taking down those filthy Giants & Cowboys.

[SirSmizzy]

I think that Smizzy is forgetting that we have a certain Hall Of Fame Coach-Joe Gibbs in charge now. Gibbs doesn't believe in chance you see. He is a problem solver and that means he does every stinkin thing he can do, to take possibilities and make them definites.

Gibbs will succeed in whatever he endeavors in life because he knows the rules for being successful.

It's not a puzzle, Smizzy, but maybe your Jets might have to wait until he writes a book about how to win, before your team can figure it out

I haven't forgot about Gibbs . Just an outsider trying to gain perspective on the skins. Playing a little devils advocate also.

[sch1977]

..Do you still feel it was great idea to mortgage the future?

I think that perception is in the eye of the beholder! Yes we made some financial mistakes in judging the production or worth of the players signed but we never saw the complete doom that was always predicted. We seemed to make some bad judgements in players but this never really hurt us as bad as some of the coaches that were coaching those mistakes IMO.

..I believe the skins are 1 of 4 teams still not under the salary cap. Any concerns about getting under and signing free agents?

NO! nada! none!

We have much better control of our destiny with this group and would seem to be one of the top 10 teams in the NFL again right now.

It is so great to be a Redskin fan again.


Thanks for the question Smizz, and I hope that your team can get itself back to respectability soon. Looks like you guys have a lot of work to do to be competitive at the top level again - but you know what, you can hope - "any given Sunday, any team can win!" Sunday is a good day for praying too!

We have tons of work to get where the skins are right now. Mangini inherited a mess and has cleaned it up in a short time. It should be a while before we are competitive.

Skins FO got under the cap and will have money to add more Gibbs type guys. Good luck taking down those filthy Giants & Cowboys.

We had no trouble last year, I see no reason to be different this year.