RAMSEY

SkinzCanes · Post by **SkinzCanes** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:17 pm

Secondly, if we had received an acceptable offer, Ramsey would be gone by now. Ramsey was a high first rounder, the bar for acceptability would be something of value. So abviously we have not received it. Another wasted first round pick.

Ramsey's abilities have nothing to do with the offers that we have received. No team is going to offer a high draft pick for a player that we may have to cut depending on how the labor talks turn out. At this point we are looking at a 4th round pick at best and I think we'll end up having to settle for a 5th or 6th rounder. There really is no way that Ramsey is coming back to this team next season. I think Gibbs respects Ramsey enough as a player tol give him a chance to compete for a starting job next season even if it means cutting him. Ramsey handled his situation with great class this past season but if he is not traded there is no way that he will be so conciliatory next season and just accept being the third string qb on this team. No player in Patrick's situation would come back here for another season.

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:35 pm

Lets get some picks for him.

totalpackage · Post by **totalpackage** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:49 am

We are not going to get much as there are going to be alot of QB's on the free agency market.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:10 am

The QB position to Gibbs is a very important part of his "team concept". Ramsey is here and will be given his opportunity elsewhere ONLY if Gibbs is comfortable with the QB situation. Brunell and Campbell are not enough and only a very few QBs are going to make Gibbs give up a very good QB that is here and can win games.

John Manfreda · Post by **John Manfreda** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:49 pm

The reason we haven't gotten acceptable offers is this. Would you trade a high draft pick for a guy in his last year of his contract. No its common sense. I would give up a 6th or a 7th for a guy in his last year of his contract. It has nothing to do with Ramsey's ability's.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:48 pm

John Manfreda wrote:The reason we haven't gotten acceptable offers is this. Would you trade a high draft pick for a guy in his last year of his contract. No its common sense. I would give up a 6th or a 7th for a guy in his last year of his contract. It has nothing to do with Ramsey's ability's.

Good deal, that's settled! We keep him, he's a winner and he's here.

Next? :wink:

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:00 pm

SkinsJock wrote:The QB position to Gibbs is a very important part of his "team concept". Ramsey is here and will be given his opportunity elsewhere ONLY if Gibbs is comfortable with the QB situation. Brunell and Campbell are not enough and only a very few QBs are going to make Gibbs give up a very good QB that is here and can win games.

Amen.

We will have to have an offer we can not refuse to let Patrick go.

SkinzCanes · Post by **SkinzCanes** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:22 pm

The QB position to Gibbs is a very important part of his "team concept". Ramsey is here and will be given his opportunity elsewhere ONLY if Gibbs is comfortable with the QB situation. Brunell and Campbell are not enough and only a very few QBs are going to make Gibbs give up a very good QB that is here and can win games.

What you're not realizing is that there is no way that Ramsey is going to come back to this team next season. Unless his agent is a total moron he is going to find a way to force the Skins to trade him or he is going to sit out. I think that Ramsey made it pretty clear when he brought a U-haul to Redskins Park and emptied out everything from his locker that he wasn't coming back. There isn't a single player in the NFL that would come back to the Skins in Ramsey's position. He has the opportunity to be a starter for a different team and you think he's going to come back here and accept the third string job? If you really think that I have some ocean front property in Arizona that I would like to sell you. If the Skins don't trade or cut Ramsey this will become a huge distraction for the team and Gibbs doesn't want anything disruptive to distract this team next season.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:42 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:A QB could throw a perfect game... He could have 5 TDs and a 100% completion rate but if he throws a game losing pick what good did it do him? What good has Peytons records done to get him a ring? Ramsey isnt our starter because of stuff that the stats can't show.

Where's Brunell's ring? Remember Seattle?

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:52 pm

Ramsey had the best rating in his division this year.
The Ram has played the equivalent of less than 2 seasons (24 games, not counting spot appearances)and his yds per game project to over 3,000 yds a season.
Those are Hall of Fame numbers.
Deal with reality, guys. Gibbs' decision was shocking eccentric and hasn't paid off. The Skins haven't won zip and money has been wasted.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:53 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:Deal with reality, guys. Gibbs' decision was shocking eccentric and hasn't paid off. The Skins haven't won zip and money has been wasted.

Wow, wow, wow. Calm down big fellow.

Money has not been wasted.

1. Brunell played some of the best football he has EVER played last season. None of the geniuses in this board ever predicted so many fantastic performances by Brunall last season.

2. Brunell's game came down, understandably, when he got hurt in NY. If there was EVER a bad call last season, it was when Joe decided to stick with the QB that had taken the Skins to the Playoffs. Is this understandable? Yes, it is. Is it wrong in hindsight? Yes, it is.

3. Patrick is our NEXT starter and I am praying that the Jets do not make us an offer we ca not refuse with Abe. They would be getting the better of that deal.

4. Joe has groomed Patrick to be the next Redskins QB. He learned A LOT under Brunell. This was the plan all along. From there to make an accusation like that, there is a LONG way.

5. I can understand Patrick and I can understand Joe. As opposed to some here, I am convinced that Joe has more respect and appreciation for Patrick than some of you give him credit for.

gregory smith · Post by **gregory smith** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:29 pm

Thank you Crazyhorse, or should I say retardedhorse. Based on Mr. Horse's projected numbers Patrick Ramsey is surely to become a hall of famer. Talk about shocking and eccentric, a paragraph that includes the name Patrick Ramsey and hall of fame numbers! Huh? Patrick may become a quality qb somewhere down the road, but come on. You're kidding me, right? Just like MR. Horse I too am a bit concerned with the qb position. We really don't know what we have in Campbell and Brunell is pretty much done, but the only thing you can project about Patrick is about 3 picks per game.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:38 pm

gregory smith wrote:Thank you Crazyhorse, or should I say retardedhorse. Based on Mr. Horse's projected numbers Patrick Ramsey is surely to become a hall of famer.

Wow, wow, wow! Stop it there big guy! Read the Rules! I do not agree with him (or you) but you have to come up with a better argument than an insult to prove anything around here.

Why on earth are we better off -without- Ramsey than -with- Ramsey under the very arguments you make in your own post???

Keep it cool. We all feel very strongly about this issue as all real Skins fans do.

gregory smith · Post by **gregory smith** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:00 pm

Oh I don't think we are better off without him, I think he will become a good qb when allowed to play, but it will never happen here. If we don't trade him now he becomes a free agent in '07 and we receive nothing in return, hopefully we can get a mid-round pick for the future hall of famer. I do hope he is traded to a decent team, he seems like a quality guy and deserves a shot somewhere.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:11 pm

gregory smith wrote:Oh I don't think we are better off without him, I think he will become a good qb when allowed to play, but it will never happen here. If we don't trade him now he becomes a free agent in '07 and we receive nothing in return, hopefully we can get a mid-round pick for the future hall of famer. I do hope he is traded to a decent team, he seems like a quality guy and deserves a shot somewhere.

What if ...

What if Brunell gets hurt -again-?

What if he plays GREAT for us this year?

We ALL were wrong vis-a-vis Brunell this past season. I do not feel that we are such a smart crowd to guarantee that Patrick would/could not finally shine for us next season.

What if we get a chance to re-sign him?

Look, it may not happen. If he is not going to play or be useful to us, I see no point in keeping him (with the cap and valuable position being useful in a trade). My point is I REALLY do not know. I fear that there is too much risk in letting him go for a very small benefit in a bad trade.

gregory smith · Post by **gregory smith** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:24 pm

I have actually thought about the re-sign him scenario. It would be ideal to keep him. What great-insurance, to have such continuity at the qb position. If we could keep Patrick with a reasonable extension I would jump all over it. I don't see that happening though, he wants to start now. If we can't get a 4th rounder I would just keep him as a one year insurance policy, anything later than that probably wouldn't make the team anyway. If we couldn't get the 4th rounder now, I would do everything I could to get under the cap without dealing him, then wait and see how the market may change during camp and pre-season. Worst case scenario? Let him play out his contract.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:37 am

gregory smith wrote:Thank you Crazyhorse, or should I say retardedhorse. Based on Mr. Horse's projected numbers Patrick Ramsey is surely to become a hall of famer. Talk about shocking and eccentric, a paragraph that includes the name Patrick Ramsey and hall of fame numbers! Huh? Patrick may become a quality qb somewhere down the road, but come on. You're kidding me, right? Just like MR. Horse I too am a bit concerned with the qb position. We really don't know what we have in Campbell and Brunell is pretty much done, but the only thing you can project about Patrick is about 3 picks per game.

I apologize to my friend RIC for going off the deep end about the Ram. I did it in part because of posts like yours that accuse Ram of throwing 3 interceptions a game. If you want to knock the guy, try using real stats. The stats I used were real. You may not like the implication I created in using them, but it is true that 3000 yds per year will put an NFL QB in the Hall of Fame generally speaking. It is also rare to bench a young QB with Ramsey's stats. His early stats compare favorably with the early stats of people like Elway, Steve Young, Warren Moon, and Troy Aikman. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but it's true. If you want to call me stupid because I am informing you of something you obviously don't know, go right ahead. But here's something you should know and do. Since Ramsey has played the equivalent of 24 games, multiply 24 by 3 interceptions and see if he's thrown that many. I'm taking a chance here. I don't know. Do you?

mulkey · Post by **mulkey** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:41 am

Gibbs will not let Ramsey go for nothing less than a flat out trade or at least a second round pick. You can take that to the bank. Ramsey is an excellent QB. The issue is Gibbs likes veterns at the position. Ramsey has had the ability to learn the position under great mentors such as Gibbs and Brunnell. He is a better Qb now than when he was the starter. I really don't see the point in letting Ramsey go. We will have to replace him with another qb of equal skills and that may be hard to find. If Brunnel Goes down, Gibbs wouldn't want to rely on Campbell with virtually no experience. SO, in my honest opinion Ramsey will be a Redskin unless the above happens. It's what is best for the team fellas.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:23 am

gregory smith wrote:Thank you Crazyhorse, or should I say retardedhorse. Based on Mr. Horse's projected numbers Patrick Ramsey is surely to become a hall of famer. Talk about shocking and eccentric, a paragraph that includes the name Patrick Ramsey and hall of fame numbers! Huh? Patrick may become a quality qb somewhere down the road, but come on. You're kidding me, right? Just like MR. Horse I too am a bit concerned with the qb position. We really don't know what we have in Campbell and Brunell is pretty much done, but the only thing you can project about Patrick is about 3 picks per game.

Since you haven't yet come forward with the actual number of Ramsey's picks, I thought I'd help you out. It's 29. Not bad, huh...for 4 years...the equivalent of 24 games in that span while throwing for 34 TD's and 5600 yards. Hint: You were way off. Big surprise. Now, if you want another surprise, compare the Ram's numbers to the early numbers of some Hall of Famers.

gregory smith · Post by **gregory smith** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:53 am

I like Patrick. I think he may be a solid quarterback at some point, hopefully for the Redskins. I was just pretty much blown away by the hall of fame references, coupled with the dig on Gibbs decision to replace him being shocking and eccentric. It was the right decision. Patrick was horrible during camp and pre-season, while Brunell looked to be much more comfortable. We just don't know if Patrick will be a quality starter or not in the league so get off the hall of fame comparisons.

EA7649 · Post by **EA7649** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:00 pm

I knew Spurrior should not have picked him!

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:28 pm

gregory smith wrote:I like Patrick. I think he may be a solid quarterback at some point, hopefully for the Redskins. I was just pretty much blown away by the hall of fame references, coupled with the dig on Gibbs decision to replace him being shocking and eccentric. It was the right decision. Patrick was horrible during camp and pre-season, while Brunell looked to be much more comfortable. We just don't know if Patrick will be a quality starter or not in the league so get off the hall of fame comparisons.

Patrick was not horrible in camp or in pre-season and was not termed so by the press or anyone else at the time. Gibbs refused to show more than five or six plays in the opening games so it was a bit vanilla and nobody on the starting team was asked to do much more than get his timing dowm. After each game, the general opinion was that nobody did anything to lose his job but Gibbs was keeping it boring.
Brunell, throwing against people who were going to be cut, looked good, on the other hand, but was the first to say it didn't matter because he was going against scrubs.Where were you when all this was going on. Your view is strickly revisionists history, all too common these days.
In ordinary football camp, a QB beats out a starting QB by going up against the same defenses the starting QB faces, not a bunch of 2nd and 3rd stringers. You went along with a hoax there. Then, in the first game, where stats show that Ramsey outplayed Brunell, you went along with the hoax again--by agreeing that Brunell beat Ramsey out that day, which he certainly did not (85 yds with no td's).
Please tell me how you adjusted your mind to do that...after you knew full well that Ramsey had clearly beaten out Brunell from the season before. And then add why you now have to misrepresent Ramsey's record...seemingly in an attempt to justify your past decisions.
Consider also your dislike for Hall of Fame comparisons. Ramsey is a Redskin you profess to like. Why would you not take pleasure and pride in the knowledge that his early career records are similar to those of Elway, Moon, Aikman, and others. You probably take pleasure in Monk's records.
Why not Ramsey's. It may do you some good to think about it.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:41 pm

EA7649 wrote:I knew Spurrior should not have picked him!

Ramsey was the only thing Spurrier did right, one of the only things Gibbs handled wrong. How long do you think it will take us to find another QB who can put up almost 6000 yds in the equivalent of a season and a half?

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:53 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:Why would you not take pleasure and pride in the knowledge that his early career records are similar to those of Elway, Moon, Aikman, and others.

A sense of reality will do that to you.

Just out of curiosity, do you predict a Hall of Fame career for the Tim Rattays, Josh McCowns and Chris Simms of the world? Does any quarterback who is able to surpass John Elway's very unimpressive first four years qualify for Canton?

sch1977 · Post by **sch1977** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:25 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:
gregory smith wrote:Thank you Crazyhorse, or should I say retardedhorse. Based on Mr. Horse's projected numbers Patrick Ramsey is surely to become a hall of famer. Talk about shocking and eccentric, a paragraph that includes the name Patrick Ramsey and hall of fame numbers! Huh? Patrick may become a quality qb somewhere down the road, but come on. You're kidding me, right? Just like MR. Horse I too am a bit concerned with the qb position. We really don't know what we have in Campbell and Brunell is pretty much done, but the only thing you can project about Patrick is about 3 picks per game.

Since you haven't yet come forward with the actual number of Ramsey's picks, I thought I'd help you out. It's 29. Not bad, huh...for 4 years...the equivalent of 24 games in that span while throwing for 34 TD's and 5600 yards. Hint: You were way off. Big surprise. Now, if you want another surprise, compare the Ram's numbers to the early numbers of some Hall of Famers.

Those INT's are underrated by you, since Pat only played a few snaps last year