Does anybody see whats happening

Raindog · Post by **Raindog** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:52 am

tcwest10 wrote:(And, seriously...we can afford to lose him.)

Yeah, more so since we're paying three quarterbacks starters saleries. I love Ramsey, but the guy is gone. I just hope that whereever he goes, he does very well. Unless it's New England or Dallas... then he can die of gonorrhea and rot in hell for all of eternity with Ray Finkle.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:05 am

A guy with Ramsey's kind of class would never let himself be traded to Dallas. You take that back.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:15 pm

If Gibbs has all the answers, why do you post your opinions or bother to form them? I do it because it part of the game. I'm a fan. That involves second guessing the coach, who usually knows more than you do.

The last time I "second guessed" Joe Jackson Gibbs was in the early fall of 1981. Won't ever do that again.

OK... this time, I'm typing very slowly, so that maybe you will catch at least PART of it... What I know is that one of the 10 best coaches in the history of the NFL, who happens to have won 4 NFC championships and 3 NFL championships with 3 different quarterbacks, has apparently determined that Ramsey is expendable. Seems pretty simple. Gibbs knows a bit about getting the most from the talent his QB possesses. Perhaps you know more than him... yeah... perhaps.

On the other hand, you have HOW many Superbowl rings?

That's what I thought.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:47 am

Countertrey wrote:
If Gibbs has all the answers, why do you post your opinions or bother to form them? I do it because it part of the game. I'm a fan. That involves second guessing the coach, who usually knows more than you do.

The last time I "second guessed" Joe Jackson Gibbs was in the early fall of 1981. Won't ever do that again.

OK... this time, I'm typing very slowly, so that maybe you will catch at least PART of it... What I know is that one of the 10 best coaches in the history of the NFL, who happens to have won 4 NFC championships and 3 NFL championships with 3 different quarterbacks, has apparently determined that Ramsey is expendable. Seems pretty simple. Gibbs knows a bit about getting the most from the talent his QB possesses. Perhaps you know more than him... yeah... perhaps.

On the other hand, you have HOW many Superbowl rings?

That's what I thought.

That's interesting. I second guessed Gibbs successfully every single game Brunell played last season, then every game he played after being injured this season. My greatest feat was second guessing Gibbs in the Seattle game when I pegged the score on the nose and before which I prayed he wouldn't start Brunell. I also second guessed him well enough when I figured Patten wouldn't cut it and he couldn't keep running Portis so much without paying for it, that Thrash was through as a receiver, taylor was a bust, and letting Pierce go was a grave mistake. Gee, I don't know where I get my nerve. Maybe I'll grow out of it and realize finally tht the great man is always right.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:40 pm

Maybe I'll grow out of it and realize finally tht the great man is always right.

Always right? The reality is that the Frank Wychek's in Gibb's resume are far and few between.

Frankly, I doubt that it matters what you realize. And, once I get past your incessant negativity and hideously repetitive harping... (I can do it, I know I can...) I could not care less.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:58 pm

In case anyone wants to factor it in, Brunell has only made it for 16 games twice in his entire career, 15 games twice. He failed to make it two out of three years at Jacksonville before he failed to make it two out of two years at Washington. He's also well known for playing badly hurt.

GoSkins · Post by **GoSkins** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:57 am

crazyhorse1 wrote:In case anyone wants to factor it in, Brunell has only made it for 16 games twice in his entire career, 15 games twice. He failed to make it two out of three years at Jacksonville before he failed to make it two out of two years at Washington. He's also well known for playing badly hurt.

I for one do not want "to factor it in". Joe Gibbs knows Brunell's track record. He knows what Brunell brings to the table. You don't. That's cool. But I go with Gibbs on this one. He's forgotten more about QBs that you or I know about QBs.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:45 pm

GoSkins wrote:
crazyhorse1 wrote:In case anyone wants to factor it in, Brunell has only made it for 16 games twice in his entire career, 15 games twice. He failed to make it two out of three years at Jacksonville before he failed to make it two out of two years at Washington. He's also well known for playing badly hurt.

I for one do not want "to factor it in". Joe Gibbs knows Brunell's track record. He knows what Brunell brings to the table. You don't. That's cool. But I go with Gibbs on this one. He's forgotten more about QBs that you or I know about QBs.

Great argument! I'm inspired by your logic.

Mursilis · Post by **Mursilis** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:25 pm

You're wasting your time, crazyhorse1. Some people around here refuse to believe Gibbs has ever made a mistake in his life. Personally, I'm with you; I prefer to be objective. Is Gibbs a great coach? YES - the best coach this team has had since, well, Gibbs I. Am I ecstatic he's back? YES AGAIN - the results, especially this past season, speak for themselves. Do I hope he stays around for a long, long, time? ABSOLUTELY!
But was it a mistake to keep a severely-injured Mark Brunell as the starter for 9 games in '04, even though he wasn't even completing 50% of his passes, was consistently underthowing his receivers, and couldn't scramble worth a lick? Sadly, yes.

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:33 pm

old news that has since been vindicated by last years nice performance. Is there any doubt, at this point, that Ramsey is not the guy? 2004 was abad season for Brunell, but I think we've seen how much better he performs when healthy. I feel much better about Cambells prospects over Ramseys with Brunellas the insurance policy.

GoSkins · Post by **GoSkins** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:10 pm

fleetus wrote:old news that has since been vindicated by last years nice performance. Is there any doubt, at this point, that Ramsey is not the guy? 2004 was abad season for Brunell, but I think we've seen how much better he performs when healthy. I feel much better about Cambells prospects over Ramseys with Brunellas the insurance policy.

That in a nutshell is how I think Gibbs feels. Campbell is the heir to the throne, not Ramsey. And Campbell will be given a chance to win the starter's job this summer.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:14 pm

Some people around here refuse to believe Gibbs has ever made a mistake in his life.

Ahhh... not quite accurate, but, I'm sure you'll get over it, none the less.

As far as I'm concerned, Ramsey is a talented quarterback, who has been given happy feet and run into the ground by that idiot previously known as the "old ball coach". To me, he appears far more likely to be effective than Brunell... yet... But, I'm not making these roster calls. On the other hand...

Gibbs makes very few bad roster decisions.
Gibbs knows quarterbacks, knows how to maximize their strengths, and minimize their weaknesses. Yet, he isn't willing to commit his team to Ramsey. What could that possibly mean? Gibbs... not concerned about losing a talented QB?

My take is that he knows something that you don't... that I don't...
Don't wait for him to kiss and tell to the press... won't happen. We will never know what he sees (or doesn't see) in Ramsey. What is it that was present in Theisman, or Williams, or even Rypien. From what I can see, neither Williams nor Rypien had the raw talent possessed by Ramsey... but, they were both trusted by Gibbs to carry championship teams. Why them? Why not Ramsey?

Gibbs has his reasons. Too bad that you and I are out of the loop on this, but, I'll get over it. Bet you do too, when the magic starts. On the other hand, certain other poor souls will probably be too busy complaining to notice, however. Sigh.

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:18 pm

Nobody's perfect but some are more perfect than others, namely Joe Gibbs. Just look at this past offseason, everyone else thought he was nuts letting Smoot and Pierce get away and taking a huge hit to trade Moss for Coles. If I remember correctly, all of those moves worked out and his doubters were proven to be idiots. Go ahead and continue doubting him, you will be wrong far more often than you are right.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:47 pm

Hog Heaven wrote:It doesn't matter. Gibbs gave Ramsey his word that if he wanted out after the season, we would trade him. Gibbs is a man of his word, so unless Ramsey wants to stay (I can't see why he would) he's gone. Also, if you listen to the end of the year press conferences by Gibbs, he does think Cambell is ready to play.

A man of his word wouldn't have promised Ram a fair shot at no 1 last year and then benched him in the first half for no reason. It was the first half, Ramsey had just thrown for a touchdown (called back, not his fault), and had amassed 105 yards against one of the best defenses in the NFL. Brunell came him, did much worse, no TD's, 85 yds, stayed at no 1 the rest of the season. No, nothing about the incident showed Gibbs as a man of his word.

GoSkins · Post by **GoSkins** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:14 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:
Hog Heaven wrote:It doesn't matter. Gibbs gave Ramsey his word that if he wanted out after the season, we would trade him. Gibbs is a man of his word, so unless Ramsey wants to stay (I can't see why he would) he's gone. Also, if you listen to the end of the year press conferences by Gibbs, he does think Cambell is ready to play.

A man of his word wouldn't have promised Ram a fair shot at no 1 last year and then benched him in the first half for no reason. It was the first half, Ramsey had just thrown for a touchdown (called back, not his fault), and had amassed 105 yards against one of the best defenses in the NFL. Brunell came him, did much worse, no TD's, 85 yds, stayed at no 1 the rest of the season. No, nothing about the incident showed Gibbs as a man of his word.

Benched for no reason? Gibbs not a man of his word? Pretty strong language, especially when it's not accurate. Ramsey was benched because he looked like a deer in the headlights. He looked like he was going to get killed, and he almost did. Gibbs gave Ramsey the entire spring and summer to focus and work on being the "starting QB" Yes, he played less than 1/2 of a game and came out; with an injury. So Gibbs puts Brunell in and the team goes to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Hello? This is a tough business; life is not fair. Gibbs will trade Ramsey if we can get something of value in return. It just didn't work out.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:08 pm

No, nothing about the incident showed Gibbs as a man of his word.

Must be some bad minerals in the Virginia Beach water.

You're sooooooo much closer to Carolina... :roll:

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:50 pm

GoSkins wrote:
crazyhorse1 wrote:
Hog Heaven wrote:It doesn't matter. Gibbs gave Ramsey his word that if he wanted out after the season, we would trade him. Gibbs is a man of his word, so unless Ramsey wants to stay (I can't see why he would) he's gone. Also, if you listen to the end of the year press conferences by Gibbs, he does think Cambell is ready to play.

A man of his word wouldn't have promised Ram a fair shot at no 1 last year and then benched him in the first half for no reason. It was the first half, Ramsey had just thrown for a touchdown (called back, not his fault), and had amassed 105 yards against one of the best defenses in the NFL. Brunell came him, did much worse, no TD's, 85 yds, stayed at no 1 the rest of the season. No, nothing about the incident showed Gibbs as a man of his word.

Benched for no reason? Gibbs not a man of his word? Pretty strong language, especially when it's not accurate. Ramsey was benched because he looked like a deer in the headlights. He looked like he was going to get killed, and he almost did. Gibbs gave Ramsey the entire spring and summer to focus and work on being the "starting QB" Yes, he played less than 1/2 of a game and came out; with an injury. So Gibbs puts Brunell in and the team goes to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Hello? This is a tough business; life is not fair. Gibbs will trade Ramsey if we can get something of value in return. It just didn't work out.

You're not back up a thing you say. Ramsey never looked like a deer in headlights in his life, no matter how badly he was playing. His majoy flaw has alway been his guts; he'll wait until a rusher is in his face before throwing, without backing down. He's one of the guttiest players I've seen in my life. Try using stats when you argue. Better yet, try explanations other than just not working out when your talking about a Redskins who's amassed well over 5,000 yds in the equivalent of 21-24 games. By the way, in case you don't know, Ramsey is the most productive Redskin of the last four years by a wide margin, far ahead of Brunell, who's played more with better receivers, and whose total project out to over 3000 yds per season/
3000 yds a season, by the way, means Hall of Fame. Ramsey's benching is a hell of a lot more wierd than something that just didn't work out. It was an effect of abnormal psychology/eccentricity.

GoSkins · Post by **GoSkins** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:59 am

It's time to move on. I agree with a previous post; what's in the water at The Beach?

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:11 am

crazyhorse1 wrote:You guys are missing the poster's point somehow. Let me re-state it. We have no reason to believe that Campbell is ready. NONE!

Other than the praise Gibbs has showered him with? Other than the intangibles that he showed during his brief stints last preseason that Ramsey has never possessed. The biggest thing that Jason has over Campbell that we can PROVE is pocket awareness. Im not sold on Campbell either but the boy has the tools.

crazyhorse1 wrote:We also have little or NO reason to believe that Brunell won't hurt himself sooner or later.

Brunell got hurt because of a breakdown in pass protection. He didn't get hurt because he couldnt endure a season. He got hit quite a bit last season. WHo's to say that Ramsey would not have been hobbled if his knee got twisted also?

crazyhorse1 wrote:There is also No, absolutely NO, FA out there that can help us get to or into the playoffs except Culpepper or Farve, neither of whom we can afford.

Ill take it one step further and say that none of them could in one year hear. Culpepper is a joke until he plays a good season without Moss who Ray Charles could throw to and complete 75% of his passes. Farve could win here but he'd still have to learn the system, deal with iffy blocking and a spotty running game.

crazyhorse1 wrote:Right now, Ramsey is PROBABLY our best chance of going to the playoffs and superbowl. If he leaves, we have an excellent chance of being LAST in our division.

All those playoff runs he's led us to is your proof, right?

crazyhorse1 wrote:That is Why all the power rankings have us behind the Cowboys at the present time. Nobody thinks Brunell will last, or Campbell will be ready. Question: Why do WE? Are we Morons? Answer: Probably.

Weren't the Cowboys ahead of us last year?
Actually, weren't we last in the powerrankings last offseason?
Werent we supposed to be in cap trouble last offseason?
Weren't we supposed to regret releasing Gardner?
Wasn't letting go of Coles a disaster?
Wasn't Santana suppoed to get injured throughout the entire year?
Wasn't Portis supposed to have another subpar year?
Wasn't Brunell supposed to flop again?
Wasn't Joe Gibbs supposed to be washed up according to last seasons analysis?
Wasn't Joe Gibbs supposed to quit on us?
Wasn't Joe Gibbs supposed to go back to Nascar?
Wasn't Rogers supposed to be the least best out of the top 3 DB's drafted?

Yea, keep listening to ESPN and their powerrankings. :roll:

Nobody was complaining during our winning streak? Nobody had a word to say negative.

Brett Farve gets praised when he throws 1000 INTs. The blame get passed onto all the injuries on his squad, they say he has no WR's to throw to.....

Now Brunell had no WR's to throw to. He had a 40 year black guy on the line and a center for a game, he got injured BECAUSE the line didn't proctect him and he's BLAMED!!! The QB that LED US TO OUR 1ST PLAYOFF APPEARANCE and VICTORY no matter how ugly is getting blamed for what another QB gets praised for... :lol:

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:47 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Weren't the Cowboys ahead of us last year?
Actually, weren't we last in the powerrankings last offseason?
Werent we supposed to be in cap trouble last offseason?
Weren't we supposed to regret releasing Gardner?
Wasn't letting go of Coles a disaster?
Wasn't Santana suppoed to get injured throughout the entire year?
Wasn't Portis supposed to have another subpar year?
Wasn't Brunell supposed to flop again?
Wasn't Joe Gibbs supposed to be washed up according to last seasons analysis?
Wasn't Joe Gibbs supposed to quit on us?
Wasn't Joe Gibbs supposed to go back to Nascar?
Wasn't Rogers supposed to be the least best out of the top 3 DB's drafted?

Yea, keep listening to ESPN and their powerrankings.
Nobody was complaining during our winning streak? Nobody had a word to say negative.

Brett Farve gets praised when he throws 1000 INTs. The blame get passed onto all the injuries on his squad, they say he has no WR's to throw to.....

Now Brunell had no WR's to throw to. He had a 40 year black guy on the line and a center for a game, he got injured BECAUSE the line didn't proctect him and he's BLAMED!!! The QB that LED US TO OUR 1ST PLAYOFF APPEARANCE and VICTORY no matter how ugly is getting blamed for what another QB gets praised for...

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:49 pm

I don't blame Brunell for getting hurt. That's what happens when you're 37 and your legs and knees are already shot. I like Brunell and think he's a great QB when rested and healthy. I'm just an old guy who's realistic about age and injury after 27 years of football (Brunell's only fit for backup duty at this point in his career.) Let's use him properly.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:54 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:I don't blame Brunell for getting hurt. That's what happens when you're 37 and your legs and knees are already shot. I like Brunell and think he's a great QB when rested and healthy. I'm just an old guy who's realistic about age and injury after 27 years of football (Brunell's only fit for backup duty at this point in his career.) Let's use him properly.

I can't say I disagree with you. I think Brunell should be our backup in a perfect situation but are we there yet? Nobody knows. Gibbs has an idea and we wont know till the preseason at the earliest. Id like for JC to step up and blow us away. We can box up Brunell and use him sparingly. Having 1. JC, 2. MB, 3. PR would be a heck of a stable.

Brunell is 37? Jeez... Im having a hard time wrapping my brain around the fact that his body will degrade that much during the offseason.... You may be right.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:03 pm

These are the same arguments used against Brunell last offseason. He's way too old, he won't hold up, he can't produce.

In my opinion, the arguments were much stronger before this past season. Brunell is one year older: it's not the end of the world.

And, did we seriously just have a debate as to whether or not Gibbs is a man of his word?

:roll:

GoSkins · Post by **GoSkins** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:12 pm

I don't want to sound anal, but MB will be 36 this September.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:27 pm

GoSkins wrote:I don't want to sound anal, but MB will be 36 this September.

I did not know you could sound that way. :lol:

You mean -banal-, right? ROTFALMAO