What the heck is wrong with you all?

[SkinzCanes]

I'd love to know what % of the owners would like to return to an uncapped league. While I'm sure there are some (Jones, Synder, Kraft) that wouldn't mind it, I'm guessing a majority would want to keep the cap. Thus, if a new CBA isn't reached, I'm betting we'd see a lock-out in the near future, which isn't good for anyone. Personally, I'd like to see them extend the CBA with something similar to the current system.

I think that you need atleast 8 owners to be able to veto an agreement such as a CBA or a revenue sharing plan. While the owners haven't (alteast not that we know of) actually voted on any agreements you would have to assume that atleast 8 onwers want changes.

[patjam77]

Upshaw will recomend during a players meeting next week that they begin the process of decertifying the players union so the owners can't hold a lock-out. I read that in the washington post this morning.

Patjam do you have anymore details on that? What would it mean to decertify the union and why would that stop a potential lockout?

sorry about that. here is the link.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01024.html

i assume it would fall under some kind of right to work law.

[SkinzCanes]

sorry about that. here is the link.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01024.html

i assume it would fall under some kind of right to work law.

thanks for the info

[hkHog]

I'd love to know what % of the owners would like to return to an uncapped league. While I'm sure there are some (Jones, Synder, Kraft) that wouldn't mind it, I'm guessing a majority would want to keep the cap. Thus, if a new CBA isn't reached, I'm betting we'd see a lock-out in the near future, which isn't good for anyone. Personally, I'd like to see them extend the CBA with something similar to the current system.

I have read that 8-10 want the cap to go away so that's 25-30%.

However, I have also heard that many owners don't necessarily want the cap to go away but want the CBA to not be renewed. These are teams that are well under te cap and are hoping to rebuild their teams by signing all of the quality players who are going to be cut this week. That's pretty messed up if you ask me.

[Mursilis]

I'd love to know what % of the owners would like to return to an uncapped league. While I'm sure there are some (Jones, Synder, Kraft) that wouldn't mind it, I'm guessing a majority would want to keep the cap. Thus, if a new CBA isn't reached, I'm betting we'd see a lock-out in the near future, which isn't good for anyone. Personally, I'd like to see them extend the CBA with something similar to the current system.

I have read that 8-10 want the cap to go away so that's 25-30%.

However, I have also heard that many owners don't necessarily want the cap to go away but want the CBA to not be renewed. These are teams that are well under te cap and are hoping to rebuild their teams by signing all of the quality players who are going to be cut this week. That's pretty messed up if you ask me.

It's certainly not a good long-term outlook for anyone. A lot of fans (including me) are going to think a lot less of the league if the owners and players can't cut a deal which avoids some sort of work stoppage. I'm not going to stop watching football, but I'd try to buy less team stuff, go to less games, etc.

[fleetus]

For example, I believe that the Royals are owned by the family that either founded Walmart or has a large financial share in Walmart

Okay, so what? You're saying the overall product, called Major League Baseball requires many of its owners invest millions out of their own pocket while Steinbrenner pockets millions every year? That's real conducive to a balanced league. So in order to be the owner of the KC Royals, you have to accept that every year you'll bring in 25 mil in revenue but have to spend 50 mil in payroll, for example.

See, in football, the fundamental difference they recognized is that the product they are selling is not the Cowboys, its the National Football League. The product is no good if every year Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Cincinatti and Kansas City lose Tony Gonzalez, Larry Johnson, Ben Rothlisberger, Hines Ward, Chad Johnson and Carson Palmer to the Giants, Redskins and Cowboys. With the cap, Pittsburgh still loses some free agents but not ALL of them like in baseball because it is simple economics. In baseball, Pittsburgh has a payroll of maybe 1% of the sum of all basbeall payrolls. In football, they've got maybe 3%. That's 3 times the chance to keep a player from going to a big market team. The payrolls are distributed almost evenly.

SkinsCanes, I do agree, without a cap, that a payroll floor would be a necessary tool to keep teams competetive, as long as revenue sharing distributes enough money to support it.

[kadskin]

All this mess about the CBA and porbably ending up with no cap in 2007 is getting annoying. Even if Danny Boy ends up buying all the top names in every position it still doesn't mean the Redskins are instantly Super Bowl winners! So stop thinking way too far ahead and seeing something that frankly isn't given. Baseball, is completely different from the sport of Football. The Yankees might be able to pick up all the guys they want and be able to instantly become Champs every season but in my opinion "TEAM CHEMISTRY" is not as much needed in Baseball. You just have your position out there in the field and you do your thing. In Football its all about the whole TEAM. and plus i've been waiting forever for the Redskins to finally be a good team. and they finally are. I CANT THINK OF GOING BACK TO ANOTHER YEAR OF STINKING! and thinking "WELL MAYBE NEXT YEAR". nooo! umm how bout "NOW!".

[xhadow]

I think everyone on this board understands team chemistry. However I also think that we all know Daniels tendancies. The good news is that we can buy young stars now and build them into a dynasty. I don't like it much because it means a few bad seasons coming soon but the long term looks promising since we can afford to keep our players.

If nothing else I would call a no CBA league a bittersweet victory for us.

[fleetus]

Personally, I loathe the idea that the Redskins might become the NFL's Yankees. I would much rather be known as a team that works hard and buys into the whole "team chemistry" idea (like the Steelers) than the team everyone calls the "Evil Empire" for its ridiculously large payroll.

[patjam77]

Personally, I loathe the idea that the Redskins might become the NFL's Yankees. I would much rather be known as a team that works hard and buys into the whole "team chemistry" idea (like the Steelers) than the team everyone calls the "Evil Empire" for its ridiculously large payroll.

oh yeah, i wouldnt want to see the redskins in the playoffs every year and be superbowl contenders year in and year out.


good coaching like they have now keeps unity and players mesh faster. yankees won a bunch of worldseries by keeping a core group of players and adding when they had too.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Personally, I loathe the idea that the Redskins might become the NFL's Yankees. I would much rather be known as a team that works hard and buys into the whole "team chemistry" idea (like the Steelers) than the team everyone calls the "Evil Empire" for its ridiculously large payroll.

oh yeah, i wouldnt want to see the redskins in the playoffs every year and be superbowl contenders year in and year out.


good coaching like they have now keeps unity and players mesh faster. yankees won a bunch of worldseries by keeping a core group of players and adding when they had too.

I dont agree at all. Itll pretty much be a statement that we couldnt do it the "right" way and had to go the easy route. No thanks.
Id rather have the league as a whole remain more competitive than to get a whole bunch of devalued trophies because we have an allstar squad year in and year out.

Before Im a Skin fan Im a football fan. The football fan inside of me does not want the NFL to turn into the MLBA.

[Redjay]

Hey, maybe 2008 will be a strike year. Ahh... just the good old superbowl years of the 80's. Bring back the scrubs!

[gay4pacman]

for the first time on sportsenter tonight it sounded like that they were hinting towards a late extension that could raise the cap up as much as 15 million. We have hop boys i think they can get a deal done

[hkHog]

for the first time on sportsenter tonight it sounded like that they were hinting towards a late extension that could raise the cap up as much as 15 million. We have hop boys i think they can get a deal done

Like I said before, wouldn't it be funny if the CBA got extended after the Dolphins, Broncos, Bills, and Panthers already all started making cuts?! Tragic for them but funny for us.

[gay4pacman]

I have a funny feeling about tomorrow i think they will get a deal togther

[patjam77]

Personally, I loathe the idea that the Redskins might become the NFL's Yankees. I would much rather be known as a team that works hard and buys into the whole "team chemistry" idea (like the Steelers) than the team everyone calls the "Evil Empire" for its ridiculously large payroll.

oh yeah, i wouldnt want to see the redskins in the playoffs every year and be superbowl contenders year in and year out.


good coaching like they have now keeps unity and players mesh faster. yankees won a bunch of worldseries by keeping a core group of players and adding when they had too.

I dont agree at all. Itll pretty much be a statement that we couldnt do it the "right" way and had to go the easy route. No thanks.
Id rather have the league as a whole remain more competitive than to get a whole bunch of devalued trophies because we have an allstar squad year in and year out.

Before Im a Skin fan Im a football fan. The football fan inside of me does not want the NFL to turn into the MLBA.

so gibbs didnt do it "right" when he won 3 superbowls with no salary cap? cooke paid what was needed to keep guys around... by your thought that diminishes what gibbs did?

[kadskin]

yeh, i have a feeling that all this crazy mess and talk about no extension for the CBA was just a way for the media to get people's attention. i bet there was going to be an extension in the first place, the NFL has just kept it on the downlow. but raising the cap 15 million duznt sound bad. gives us a better chance to get those guys we need for a 2006 SUPERBOWL!

[fleetus]

One example that show how parity is necessary for the overall prosperity of a league is the NBA and Jordan's Bulls in the 1997 season. When Jordan and the bulls won their 6th championship, you would think that was the height of the NBA right? Their greatest player ever winning a 6th championship!The NBA tried very hard to market Jordan and the BUlls to milk every advertising penny they could, YET, Apparel sales had slumped, many NBA franchises reported 20% drops in attendance and the NBA reported nearly HALF the franchises were losing money! There wasn't enough parity and the NBA knew it. The next year, in 1998 they introduced a luxury tax to try and keep from widening the gap even further between the rich teams and the poor teams.

The obvious point here is that the success of a league is largely dependant upon overall fan support. Parity insures that fan support is spread across all the leagues teams. This provides stability and revenue because, as we see every year in the NFL, more than half the teams are still in the playoff hunt midway through the season. MLB may get an oddball winner here and there, but the number of teams that are "in the hunt" or can stay competetive year after year is much smaller than in the NFL. Furthermore, because baseball allows teams to trade very late in the season, many of those oddball champions managed to make it through to World Series by renting high priced veterans for a few months. Not exactly the same model of team chemistry we enjoy with the NFL.

[COZ]

Seriously.

Why all the hand wringing about the lack of a CBA deal?

So we cut a bunch of people for next year. So what. We suck for one year. I can live with that (I've lived with that most years since 1991 anyway!!)

After that there will not be a cap in 2007 and if that happens, the chances of going back to a cap anytime soon are very small.

What is not being widely reported is there are a number of owners who DO NOT WANT a cap any more. They see this as their best chance to make that a reality. They don't mind spending cash to put a winning team on the field. (I'm sure Danny boy is one of these.)

I say, suck it up for a year then let The Danny open up his big wallet!! Now that he understands the need to let his football experts make the personnel decisions, the Skins will contend for the title for years to come!! (just not next year)

The cap did not come into existence until the early 90's. I SEEM to recall the 80's as a pretty good decade for the Skins….

I'm guessing you aren't a season ticket holder. I am and I have no desire to pay good money to watch scrubs and rookies play sub-par ball.

So you are not willing to watch poor play for 1 season if it means 10 years of prosperity?

Not if this is the last year of a 10 yr contract that has only produced 2 winning seasons. And it's not about watching 1 bad year it's about PAYING for a bad year.

Let's put it in another context: You are a season ticket holder to the Kennedy Center. year after year they spend too much on older, poor actors and in doing so hurt the future buying power of true actors. Then in your last year of your contract you find that they have over extended their buying power and based future purchase power on "crystal ball" tactics and find themselves so much in the "hole" that they have to get rid of the few good actors they have left and instead hire out local actors and inexperienced actors. Would you want to pay full price to go to the show?

[COZ]

Seriously.

Why all the hand wringing about the lack of a CBA deal?

So we cut a bunch of people for next year. So what. We suck for one year. I can live with that (I've lived with that most years since 1991 anyway!!)

After that there will not be a cap in 2007 and if that happens, the chances of going back to a cap anytime soon are very small.

What is not being widely reported is there are a number of owners who DO NOT WANT a cap any more. They see this as their best chance to make that a reality. They don't mind spending cash to put a winning team on the field. (I'm sure Danny boy is one of these.)

I say, suck it up for a year then let The Danny open up his big wallet!! Now that he understands the need to let his football experts make the personnel decisions, the Skins will contend for the title for years to come!! (just not next year)

The cap did not come into existence until the early 90's. I SEEM to recall the 80's as a pretty good decade for the Skins….

I'm guessing you aren't a season ticket holder. I am and I have no desire to pay good money to watch scrubs and rookies play sub-par ball.

then give your tix to someone who roots for the team in a down year knowing that the owner will make every effort to right the ship as best he can the following season. also, that doesnt speak much of your confidence of gibbs to put a competitive team on the field. CBA or not the skins WILL struggle when campbell finally takes the helm. he'll have growing pains for sure.

Dude - down year??? Come on 8 of the past 10 years have been down years. I've been faithful to a team with 8 down years and will continue to be.... And though I like Coach Gibbs, I don't think he is GOD. If he is stuck with rookies and 2nd tier players he will not be competitive with teams who have better spent their player dollars than the Skins have. As to Campbell - who says he will struggle? And if he does, that's acceptable since he represents the future. Much like Eli and Chris Simms. What is unacceptable is the Skins crazy spending in the past hoping that this day would not come. Every team knew this could happen and some have been smart - others not.

And I would not like to see the Skins become the Yankee's of the NFL. That's the main reason why I hate the Yankees - they think they can buy championships. And lately their spending hasn't equated to championships. Wouldn't that doubly suck to see the Skins spend big bucks on FA's in the post CBA era and still not make it?

[Scottskins]

Like I said before, wouldn't it be funny if the CBA got extended after the Dolphins, Broncos, Bills, and Panthers already all started making cuts?! Tragic for them but funny for us.

Espn is reporting that players released during this ordeal can be reclaimed by the teams that are releasing them if a new CBA is reached.

If an extension is reached, what happens to players already released for cap purposes?
A high-level source with one NFL team told ESPN.com the league has informed teams that any player placed on waivers during this period of uncertainty can be recalled from waivers until there is more clarity about the pending free-agency period.)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2351462

[VRIEL1]

You know I maybe wrong but I thought that in years past when the Skins won superbowls with no CBA we won with hard working no names. I remember old Jack spending money on players but I also remember Jack only spending on maybe one big name each year. maybe two. he was a penny pincher and Joe Gibbs had to mold his teams with mostly no names. Other teams were expected to go all the way but not the Skins.
As for the other markets and their competativeness...I could care less. If I purchase Redskins material I want it to go to the Skins not the Cardinals. If I wanted to support the Texans then I would purchase Texans material. If markets are not going to support their teams then allow the owners to move to more lucrative spots...ie Baltimore Colts. Heck look at the Raiders. I think they moved simply to generate more fans then moved back.lol. See some people are Team fans as in "I love the Skins." Some people are NFL fans as in "I would love to see an even playing field for everyone." If the Skins won the superbowl for the next 10yrs...I would be happy. Especially since we have been in a hole for 10yrs.

[VRIEL1]

The cap always hurt teams and players. The team would want to keep a player but could not due to cap issues the players would want to stay because they liked the commeradre but wanted to get paid. You were either a team player and excepted less or you were a $$$(money)player and didn't care about the team anyway. And as the owners they appeared either to be penny pinchers or player haters.

[1niksder]

The cap always hurt teams and players. The team would want to keep a player but could not due to cap issues the players would want to stay because they liked the commeradre but wanted to get paid. You were either a team player and excepted less or you were a $$$(money)player and didn't care about the team anyway. And as the owners they appeared either to be penny pinchers or player haters.

Check your PMs

[VRIEL1]

sorry hopefully that worked. thanks!!!