Cheny's victim suffers heart attack
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EA7649
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Cheny's victim suffers heart attack
I can believe that old republican shot a man. now he suffers a heart attack b/c part of the pelat got logged into his heart.Even better by chenys part. He didnt have a hunting liscense and his exscuse"Ididnt know you needed one"
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Skinsfan55
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Cheney is a careless bafoon, it's a joke that our Vice-President is such a clueless oaf that he would shoot a hunting partner.
I mean, I'm all for hunting if you're actually going to eat your kill (or give it to someone else, don't just kill it and leave it) but how can the American public trust someone so careless and trigger happy?
There's also a story that Cheney stalled the reports of this story by 20 hours! (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... ml?CNN=yes) Amazing, even a top Republican White House official said: "This is either a cover-up story or an incompetence story, Karl was constrained, as was the entire communications operation, because the Vice President had arranged for how this was to come out."
Wow, great options there, Cheney is either stupid or evil, quite possibly both. Even the staunchest of Republicans would have to seriously question Cheney's integrity, not to mention his ability to do his job.
One one hand I hope this leads to his resignation, on the other hand I can't immagine what kind of "winner" the Republicans would replace him with...
I mean, I'm all for hunting if you're actually going to eat your kill (or give it to someone else, don't just kill it and leave it) but how can the American public trust someone so careless and trigger happy?
There's also a story that Cheney stalled the reports of this story by 20 hours! (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... ml?CNN=yes) Amazing, even a top Republican White House official said: "This is either a cover-up story or an incompetence story, Karl was constrained, as was the entire communications operation, because the Vice President had arranged for how this was to come out."
Wow, great options there, Cheney is either stupid or evil, quite possibly both. Even the staunchest of Republicans would have to seriously question Cheney's integrity, not to mention his ability to do his job.
One one hand I hope this leads to his resignation, on the other hand I can't immagine what kind of "winner" the Republicans would replace him with...
"Guess [Ryan Kerrigan] really does have a good motor. And is relentless. And never quits on a play. And just keeps coming. And probably eats Wheaties and drinks Apple Pie smoothies and shaves with Valvoline." -Dan Steinberg DC Sports Bog
The only thing weirder than the situation itself is the scandal about it.
1) Why does the press care that the White House didn't announce the incident? Isn't it usually up to local police to put out such information?
2) The thing about the license isn't quite accurate -- it was a stamp on his license that he didn't have. And, because it's a new law and so few people are aware of it, warning citations have been the normal remedy to this point.
3) It was a hunting accident! Those happen all the time.
I'm as opposed to the Bush administration as anyone, but I just don't get all this meta-scandal.
1) Why does the press care that the White House didn't announce the incident? Isn't it usually up to local police to put out such information?
2) The thing about the license isn't quite accurate -- it was a stamp on his license that he didn't have. And, because it's a new law and so few people are aware of it, warning citations have been the normal remedy to this point.
3) It was a hunting accident! Those happen all the time.
I'm as opposed to the Bush administration as anyone, but I just don't get all this meta-scandal.
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JansenFan
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I heard or read somewhere, tht the guy who was shot was at fault for entering the line of fire without making his presence known.
I know people want to make this into a political issue, but it really isn't, no matter how much people stretch it.
I know people want to make this into a political issue, but it really isn't, no matter how much people stretch it.
RIP 21
"Nah, I trust the laws of nature to stay constant. I don't pray that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I don't need to pray that someone will beat the Cowboys in the playoffs." - Irn-Bru
"Nah, I trust the laws of nature to stay constant. I don't pray that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I don't need to pray that someone will beat the Cowboys in the playoffs." - Irn-Bru
It's a hunting accident. Things happen. I would never go hunting with him, I'll say that.
What makes it kind of funny is that it's Dick Cheney. He gets like 5 Vietnam deferments, then becomes an NRA supporter, then shoots his friend while hunting. It makes him look like an idiot for not properly handling his weapon, so people will make fun of him.
There was one thing. He was supposed to be interviewed by local police, just as routine. An interview was set up, then cancelled by Secret Service. The policeman came for the interview, then was turned away. That only furthers the public opinion that the administration does whatever it wants to.
What makes it kind of funny is that it's Dick Cheney. He gets like 5 Vietnam deferments, then becomes an NRA supporter, then shoots his friend while hunting. It makes him look like an idiot for not properly handling his weapon, so people will make fun of him.
There was one thing. He was supposed to be interviewed by local police, just as routine. An interview was set up, then cancelled by Secret Service. The policeman came for the interview, then was turned away. That only furthers the public opinion that the administration does whatever it wants to.
"I DN'T ENVISION MYSELF LEAVING, BUT I CN'T STAY WHERE I'M NT WANTED AFTER ALL THESE REPORTS R COMIN OUT DAILY!" - TO
JansenFan wrote:I heard or read somewhere, tht the guy who was shot was at fault for entering the line of fire without making his presence known.
I know people want to make this into a political issue, but it really isn't, no matter how much people stretch it.
Well, the sum of my hunting experience is the short course on hunting safety they make you take in middle school (never fired a gun), but the guidline of not shooting without being certain of what is behind your prey is one of the few things I recall from the class. I'd say they are both at fault, which is probably usually the case with hunting accidents.
For you second point, I agree.
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JansenFan
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cvillehog wrote:JansenFan wrote:I heard or read somewhere, tht the guy who was shot was at fault for entering the line of fire without making his presence known.
I know people want to make this into a political issue, but it really isn't, no matter how much people stretch it.
Well, the sum of my hunting experience is the short course on hunting safety they make you take in middle school (never fired a gun), but the guidline of not shooting without being certain of what is behind your prey is one of the few things I recall from the class. I'd say they are both at fault, which is probably usually the case with hunting accidents.
For you second point, I agree.
According to the reports, he wasn't shot, he was sprayed, so as he swung his rifle following the bird, the dude appeared. Don't get me wrong, he should have looked, but if this guy was moving at the time, he could havee looked and then the person shot may have walked into it.
Having not been there, I can't really say.
RIP 21
"Nah, I trust the laws of nature to stay constant. I don't pray that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I don't need to pray that someone will beat the Cowboys in the playoffs." - Irn-Bru
"Nah, I trust the laws of nature to stay constant. I don't pray that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I don't need to pray that someone will beat the Cowboys in the playoffs." - Irn-Bru
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crazyhorse1
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If you go hunting with a seventy eight year old guy, it's your responsibility to take care of that guy PERIOD
You also talk to the police after shooting someone, not the next day.
Further, you take the injured man to a closer, better facility in a city rather than a small, less equipped facility in a small town.
You also report the incident right away to the press, if you are the Vice President...and don't wait until many hours later and then have a private citizen report the matter to a friend.
The paper you report it too, if it is an AP paper, usually puts a shooting on the wire, I wonder why this one didn't.
Hmmm. Doctors think he was closer than thirty feet away when shot. Hmmmmm.
Hmmm. Heart attack not spoken of at noon press conference, inspite of fact spokesman knew heart attack had occurred.
White House still adament it wasn't Cheney's fault. First things first. Nice priorities.
So far it looks like the gang has goofed up, tried to hide it or play damage control with it, possibly lie about it, stonewall about it, and then deny responsibility for it. Who knows what happened?
Sound familiar?
You also talk to the police after shooting someone, not the next day.
Further, you take the injured man to a closer, better facility in a city rather than a small, less equipped facility in a small town.
You also report the incident right away to the press, if you are the Vice President...and don't wait until many hours later and then have a private citizen report the matter to a friend.
The paper you report it too, if it is an AP paper, usually puts a shooting on the wire, I wonder why this one didn't.
Hmmm. Doctors think he was closer than thirty feet away when shot. Hmmmmm.
Hmmm. Heart attack not spoken of at noon press conference, inspite of fact spokesman knew heart attack had occurred.
White House still adament it wasn't Cheney's fault. First things first. Nice priorities.
So far it looks like the gang has goofed up, tried to hide it or play damage control with it, possibly lie about it, stonewall about it, and then deny responsibility for it. Who knows what happened?
Sound familiar?
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UK Skins Fan
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cvillehog wrote:JansenFan wrote:I heard or read somewhere, tht the guy who was shot was at fault for entering the line of fire without making his presence known.
I know people want to make this into a political issue, but it really isn't, no matter how much people stretch it.
Well, the sum of my hunting experience is the short course on hunting safety they make you take in middle school (never fired a gun), but the guidline of not shooting without being certain of what is behind your prey is one of the few things I recall from the class. I'd say they are both at fault, which is probably usually the case with hunting accidents.
For you second point, I agree.
You guys have lessons on hunting in school?
Also available on Twitter @UKSkinsFan
UK Skins Fan wrote:cvillehog wrote:JansenFan wrote:I heard or read somewhere, tht the guy who was shot was at fault for entering the line of fire without making his presence known.
I know people want to make this into a political issue, but it really isn't, no matter how much people stretch it.
Well, the sum of my hunting experience is the short course on hunting safety they make you take in middle school (never fired a gun), but the guidline of not shooting without being certain of what is behind your prey is one of the few things I recall from the class. I'd say they are both at fault, which is probably usually the case with hunting accidents.
For you second point, I agree.
You guys have lessons on hunting in school?
Hunting safety, yeah. At least, back around 1990 they did. The law requires the course in order to get hunting and fishing licenses, so the school just made everyone take it.
Not to belittle the seriousness of this accident, I do hope the guy Cheney accidently shot is healing after this horrible ordeal. But, to have the VP accidently shoot a friend is great fodder for late-nite talk shows, newspaper headline heaven, and of course, great and funny pics...
If men can run the world, why can't they stop wearing neckties? How intelligent is it to start the day by tying a little noose around your neck?
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JansenFan
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CH1, you are reaching. Your hate for the Bush administration is well-documented, but the fact that the White House has to deal with this is garbage.
He may be the vice president, but this matter is not of national concern. It is a private matter between two people, and there is nothing wrong with handling it that way.
He may be the vice president, but this matter is not of national concern. It is a private matter between two people, and there is nothing wrong with handling it that way.
RIP 21
"Nah, I trust the laws of nature to stay constant. I don't pray that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I don't need to pray that someone will beat the Cowboys in the playoffs." - Irn-Bru
"Nah, I trust the laws of nature to stay constant. I don't pray that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I don't need to pray that someone will beat the Cowboys in the playoffs." - Irn-Bru
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Redskins Rule
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Sorry JansenFan, but I have to disagree with you. Once the Vice President shoots someone it becomes political. Especially when he uses politics to keep it quiet for a day and a half.
With that being said, there is no excuse for shooting somebody "accidentally" You must always be aware of your target and its background. He fired the shotgun when he wasn't aware. NO DISCIPLINE!!!
With that being said, there is no excuse for shooting somebody "accidentally" You must always be aware of your target and its background. He fired the shotgun when he wasn't aware. NO DISCIPLINE!!!
Redskins Rule!!!
DUMP SI!!!
DUMP SI!!!
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Skinsfan55
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I was fuming yesterday, and even in a much more controlled state today I still can't get over the carelessness of this act.
He's out hunting, hears a rustling in the tall grass behinds him and shoots without even seeing a bird!
This is what every news outlet is saying.
Everyone who has ever worked with firearms knows that you be sure of your target and know your backstop.
I don't buy this bologna that the guy he shot should have announced himself to the group... I have never been bird hunting, but I'm guessing you want to be as quiet as possible and not yell your position out at random times through the hunt.
Everyone was reportedly wearing bright orange, so that seems like it should have been enough. If Cheney had been sure of the shot he was taking this accident would never have occured, and no one can refute that.
He's out hunting, hears a rustling in the tall grass behinds him and shoots without even seeing a bird!
This is what every news outlet is saying.
Everyone who has ever worked with firearms knows that you be sure of your target and know your backstop.
I don't buy this bologna that the guy he shot should have announced himself to the group... I have never been bird hunting, but I'm guessing you want to be as quiet as possible and not yell your position out at random times through the hunt.
Everyone was reportedly wearing bright orange, so that seems like it should have been enough. If Cheney had been sure of the shot he was taking this accident would never have occured, and no one can refute that.
"Guess [Ryan Kerrigan] really does have a good motor. And is relentless. And never quits on a play. And just keeps coming. And probably eats Wheaties and drinks Apple Pie smoothies and shaves with Valvoline." -Dan Steinberg DC Sports Bog
OK?
First of all, I hunt and have been doing so for 20 years. It is ALWAYS the shooters responsiblity of where his/her firearm is pointed or fired. This nonsense about how it was not Cheney's fault is appalling and further demonstrates the mindset of both the veep and the administration. Nevermind the fact the coverup about not reporting it, I mean did it shock anyone that Cheney was trying to keep info from the public? When you shoot a man, and you are the second(first?) most powerful man in the US and an elected PUBLIC official I do believe you should notify the public, this is really common sense no?
Secondly, these guys were not "hunting", they were riding around on a "game" ranch that is stocked with birds for the purpose of hunting. Not really too much sport in riding around in your SUV or car and getting out when you spot some birds that have been planted there for you. Instead of prancing around pretending to be something your not how about getting back to your JOB in the capitol dealing with some of the crippling domestic issues facing this country?
Makes the situation even more of a joke.
BTW, I am a registered Republican but the arrogance that this administration has in conducting it's agenda is truly eye opening and appalling.
Secondly, these guys were not "hunting", they were riding around on a "game" ranch that is stocked with birds for the purpose of hunting. Not really too much sport in riding around in your SUV or car and getting out when you spot some birds that have been planted there for you. Instead of prancing around pretending to be something your not how about getting back to your JOB in the capitol dealing with some of the crippling domestic issues facing this country?
Makes the situation even more of a joke.
BTW, I am a registered Republican but the arrogance that this administration has in conducting it's agenda is truly eye opening and appalling.
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JansenFan
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I guess I just don't see this the same way you people do, and it really has nothing to do with my political views, because my political views have nothing to do with hunting.
Maybe I'm just crazy.
Maybe I'm just crazy.
RIP 21
"Nah, I trust the laws of nature to stay constant. I don't pray that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I don't need to pray that someone will beat the Cowboys in the playoffs." - Irn-Bru
"Nah, I trust the laws of nature to stay constant. I don't pray that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I don't need to pray that someone will beat the Cowboys in the playoffs." - Irn-Bru
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Skinsfan55
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Exactly, and you're not the only Repub to be angered by this.
Other high profile Republicans are speaking out in anger about this.
Also, JF, even if it doesn't make you "angry" per se, what is your feeling on this?
Just that it was a simple hunting accident and we should just all forget about it? I don't understand how someone could have no opinion on something that seems to me to be such a careless act.
Honestly, I am interested in some other points of view.
Other high profile Republicans are speaking out in anger about this.
Also, JF, even if it doesn't make you "angry" per se, what is your feeling on this?
Just that it was a simple hunting accident and we should just all forget about it? I don't understand how someone could have no opinion on something that seems to me to be such a careless act.
Honestly, I am interested in some other points of view.
"Guess [Ryan Kerrigan] really does have a good motor. And is relentless. And never quits on a play. And just keeps coming. And probably eats Wheaties and drinks Apple Pie smoothies and shaves with Valvoline." -Dan Steinberg DC Sports Bog
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Irn-Bru
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seems to me to be such a careless act.
. . .operative word here being "seems." All accidents seem like careless acts. They don't make sense if you assume that the person making the mistake was both (a) rational and (b) in control of the situation.
But, yeah, let's impeach him!!1! (Can we do that!?!1!)
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JansenFan
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I have no feelings on it. It was a hunting accident. I went to high school with a guy who killed himself hunting. I have a relative who killed a friend accidentily.
Was it careless on Cheney's part or on the other gentleman's part? Probably both of them. That doesn't make it into a political issue, or one that the white house should be dealing with.
I fully understand that because he is the VP, he is held to a higher standard regarding personal conduct and public accountability. It just bugs me when something like this gets turned into the next watergate.
Everything doesn't have to be a scandal, no matter how many papers it sells.
Was it careless on Cheney's part or on the other gentleman's part? Probably both of them. That doesn't make it into a political issue, or one that the white house should be dealing with.
I fully understand that because he is the VP, he is held to a higher standard regarding personal conduct and public accountability. It just bugs me when something like this gets turned into the next watergate.
Everything doesn't have to be a scandal, no matter how many papers it sells.
RIP 21
"Nah, I trust the laws of nature to stay constant. I don't pray that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I don't need to pray that someone will beat the Cowboys in the playoffs." - Irn-Bru
"Nah, I trust the laws of nature to stay constant. I don't pray that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I don't need to pray that someone will beat the Cowboys in the playoffs." - Irn-Bru
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Skinsfan55
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This act seems careless because by all accounts he fired into tall grass without being sure of his target.
It's not like he was aiming at a bird and this lawyer just jumped in the way, every source is saying Cheney heard a rustling BEHIND him, and he instinctively turned and fired.
What I find more maddening that this carelessness is that he is completely remorseless in his response to the issue and even republicans are getting upset that the veep is a liability to the administration.
Yeah, we can't impeach him, and nothing will probably happen, but if he keeps this up it's possible he's asked to resign.
Even though Bush is still president until 2008 the party needs to make sure they keep approval high because they want to win another term as a group.
Are you telling me that Bush's approval rating wouldn't shoot through the roof if he "fired" Cheney? Add to that the fact the party would have two years to get over the scandal and you have a sound political decision IMO.
It's not like he was aiming at a bird and this lawyer just jumped in the way, every source is saying Cheney heard a rustling BEHIND him, and he instinctively turned and fired.
What I find more maddening that this carelessness is that he is completely remorseless in his response to the issue and even republicans are getting upset that the veep is a liability to the administration.
Yeah, we can't impeach him, and nothing will probably happen, but if he keeps this up it's possible he's asked to resign.
Even though Bush is still president until 2008 the party needs to make sure they keep approval high because they want to win another term as a group.
Are you telling me that Bush's approval rating wouldn't shoot through the roof if he "fired" Cheney? Add to that the fact the party would have two years to get over the scandal and you have a sound political decision IMO.
"Guess [Ryan Kerrigan] really does have a good motor. And is relentless. And never quits on a play. And just keeps coming. And probably eats Wheaties and drinks Apple Pie smoothies and shaves with Valvoline." -Dan Steinberg DC Sports Bog
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JansenFan
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If it "shot through the roof", would that then mean that the sole reason he is an unpopular president was because of his vice president?
RIP 21
"Nah, I trust the laws of nature to stay constant. I don't pray that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I don't need to pray that someone will beat the Cowboys in the playoffs." - Irn-Bru
"Nah, I trust the laws of nature to stay constant. I don't pray that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I don't need to pray that someone will beat the Cowboys in the playoffs." - Irn-Bru
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Skinsfan55
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No, not at all.
But many, many people (especially young people) think that the White House is dirty. (Be they right or wrong.)
So if they saw Bush do SOMETHING to clean up the administration when it APPEARS to so many people that he engages in cronyism it would also appear to some people that he wasn't all bad and that the party was on the up and up.
But many, many people (especially young people) think that the White House is dirty. (Be they right or wrong.)
So if they saw Bush do SOMETHING to clean up the administration when it APPEARS to so many people that he engages in cronyism it would also appear to some people that he wasn't all bad and that the party was on the up and up.
"Guess [Ryan Kerrigan] really does have a good motor. And is relentless. And never quits on a play. And just keeps coming. And probably eats Wheaties and drinks Apple Pie smoothies and shaves with Valvoline." -Dan Steinberg DC Sports Bog
Wow... I'm goign to surprise some people here with my statement (and not surprise others)...
I agree that Cheney should be aware of what he's shooting at. As someone who was taught proper gun-safety that basica rule is paramount. And this can hopefully serve as a lesson to hunters everywhere to be more careful. Many hunters simply do not observer good gun safety. I stopped hunting a long time ago when my dad and I encountered too many hunters drinking too much alcohol. But back to the matter at hand and Cheney's accidental shooting of his friend. Simply put he broke the cardinal rule, regardless of what the other guy did or didn't do (even though that did play a factor) and the fault lies with him and he has accepted that fault.
I also agree with RedskinsRule in that since it involves the VP it becomes a "political issue" (whether the VP was the shooter or shootee). This is the nature of the beast when you are a public figure.
I also agree with Jansenfan when he said...
Amen... from what I can tell so far the focus was on making sure the guy was safe and ok and being cared for by medical personnel. The "scandal" was that there was a "coverup" even though the media was informed the next morning. The media was notified at 9am the next morning. Wait... it was the Corpus Christi media that was informed. The WH Press Corps is mostly pissed that they got "scooped" by the local paper. There's the reason why this is a "scandal"
Do I think it should've been handled differently? Sure ... I think he should've instructed his staff to wake up the WH press corp and let them know about it after they learned the guy was "ok". But don't kid yourselves for a second that this would've been treated differently by the WHPC and the MSM if it were a Democrat VP who had done the same thing. We'd be hearing about gun-safety and how fortunate it was that the VP's Secret Service detail was there to whisk him to a hospital and we'd be hearing about how "common" these accidents are each year and how concerned the VP was for the shootee. This is IMHO but again after seeing alot of the way things are covered between Democrat and Republican administrations by the MSM I really do think it would've been portrayed differently in the press.
In summation ... the VP is at fault for failing to identify his target... the VP's people and the WH bungled this a little but ... the press is also making mountains out of molehills in comparison to other pressing issues of the day.
I agree that Cheney should be aware of what he's shooting at. As someone who was taught proper gun-safety that basica rule is paramount. And this can hopefully serve as a lesson to hunters everywhere to be more careful. Many hunters simply do not observer good gun safety. I stopped hunting a long time ago when my dad and I encountered too many hunters drinking too much alcohol. But back to the matter at hand and Cheney's accidental shooting of his friend. Simply put he broke the cardinal rule, regardless of what the other guy did or didn't do (even though that did play a factor) and the fault lies with him and he has accepted that fault.
I also agree with RedskinsRule in that since it involves the VP it becomes a "political issue" (whether the VP was the shooter or shootee). This is the nature of the beast when you are a public figure.
I also agree with Jansenfan when he said...
It just bugs me when something like this gets turned into the next watergate.
Everything doesn't have to be a scandal, no matter how many papers it sells.
Amen... from what I can tell so far the focus was on making sure the guy was safe and ok and being cared for by medical personnel. The "scandal" was that there was a "coverup" even though the media was informed the next morning. The media was notified at 9am the next morning. Wait... it was the Corpus Christi media that was informed. The WH Press Corps is mostly pissed that they got "scooped" by the local paper. There's the reason why this is a "scandal"
Do I think it should've been handled differently? Sure ... I think he should've instructed his staff to wake up the WH press corp and let them know about it after they learned the guy was "ok". But don't kid yourselves for a second that this would've been treated differently by the WHPC and the MSM if it were a Democrat VP who had done the same thing. We'd be hearing about gun-safety and how fortunate it was that the VP's Secret Service detail was there to whisk him to a hospital and we'd be hearing about how "common" these accidents are each year and how concerned the VP was for the shootee. This is IMHO but again after seeing alot of the way things are covered between Democrat and Republican administrations by the MSM I really do think it would've been portrayed differently in the press.
In summation ... the VP is at fault for failing to identify his target... the VP's people and the WH bungled this a little but ... the press is also making mountains out of molehills in comparison to other pressing issues of the day.