Too predictable on 3rd down?

[Chris Luva Luva]

An enthusiastic YES! Now it could be argued that this had to due with Brunells arm because a lot of them were errant. Throwing on the run had to put some stress on that MCL.

I really think if we ran a draw play in that mold that Clinton would take it to the house. I say we run the bootleg twice, hopefully we'll convert twice also. Each time we run it we need to fake it to CP, the 3rd time he needs to get it. There can be no way in the world the LB's wont cheat over to eys side.

Sweet 'N' Sour Team: Mark Brunell sure looked like his old self by firing beautiful, deep passes to Santana Moss and James Thrash, plus running on third-and-8 for a late conversion that nearly iced the Skins' playoff invitation. But Washington keeps rolling Brunell left (he's left-handed) on short-yardage downs, and it's fooling no one. Philadelphia leading 17-7, Washington had third-and-1 on the Nesharim 6; Brunell play faked and rolled left, fooling no one, incompletion. Philadelphia leading 20-17, Washington facing third-and-3, Brunell play faked and rolled left, fooling no one, incompletion. Washington leading 24-20 with 3:25 remaining, facing third-and-3, Brunell play faked and rolled left, fooling no one, incompletion. All three plays were designed to go to H-back Chris ey, and all three times Eagles defenders, knowing what was coming, swarmed over ey. Memo to Redskins coaches: Everybody in the free world expects Brunell to play fake and roll left on short-yardage downs. This was the single-most predictable action in the NFL this season, and Washington needs to fix the problem before the playoffs commence.

Yes, Ive just been sitting up all night reading anything I can find. I go back to work tommorow (i work nights) and I have to get my body back to schedule. 10AM OR BUST!

[Redskins4Life]

Yup everytime I see playactions on 3rd down I start shaking my head that we're not letting Portis/Sellers or even Cartwright get us the 1 yard we need.

[DEHog]

I hated that 3rd and 1 call...why not jus give it to portis???

[Uaintready]

Yeah I was saying the same thing, every time 3rd down here comes that play action fake and the toss to Chris Colley who looked like he was mad too, cause they have that play doubled everytime. Brunell always had a man in his face and has to throw off his back foot. They need to run some crossing routes like Philly was, or use Clinton like the Giants do and get hime 1 on 1 with a LB with room to run.

An enthusiastic YES! Now it could

be argued that this had to due with Brunells arm because a lot of them were errant. Throwing on the run had to put some stress on that MCL.

I really think if we ran a draw play in that mold that Clinton would take it to the house. I say we run the bootleg twice, hopefully we'll convert twice also. Each time we run it we need to fake it to CP, the 3rd time he needs to get it. There can be no way in the world the LB's wont cheat over to eys side.

Sweet 'N' Sour Team: Mark Brunell sure looked like his old self by firing beautiful, deep passes to Santana Moss and James Thrash, plus running on third-and-8 for a late conversion that nearly iced the Skins' playoff invitation. But Washington keeps rolling Brunell left (he's left-handed) on short-yardage downs, and it's fooling no one. Philadelphia leading 17-7, Washington had third-and-1 on the Nesharim 6; Brunell play faked and rolled left, fooling no one, incompletion. Philadelphia leading 20-17, Washington facing third-and-3, Brunell play faked and rolled left, fooling no one, incompletion. Washington leading 24-20 with 3:25 remaining, facing third-and-3, Brunell play faked and rolled left, fooling no one, incompletion. All three plays were designed to go to H-back Chris ey, and all three times Eagles defenders, knowing what was coming, swarmed over ey. Memo to Redskins coaches: Everybody in the free world expects Brunell to play fake and roll left on short-yardage downs. This was the single-most predictable action in the NFL this season, and Washington needs to fix the problem before the playoffs commence.

Yes, Ive just been sitting up all night reading anything I can find. I go back to work tommorow (i work nights) and I have to get my body back to schedule. 10AM OR BUST!

[Chris Luva Luva]

Chris Colley who looked like he was mad too, cause they have that play doubled everytime.

He was definately pissed during the game. He's definately going to garner A LOT of attention now.

Brunell always had a man in his face and has to throw off his back foot.

With his injury I believe thats why those passes weren't completed much against Philly. Sure they've been covered in the past but Brunell fits them in. I think we would have completed at least half if he was healthy.

They need to run some crossing routes like Philly was

Won't do any good, we dont utilize 2 WRs anway. Those 2 passes to Thrash dont count. I swear that was the 1st time we've thrown to another WR in at least 3 games. Plus he ran the same route teice.

, or use Clinton like the Giants do and get hime 1 on 1 with a LB with room to run.

We actually did against Philly but Brunell threw it behind him.

[ejay183]

I know, we should run the same play, but hand it off to Portis.

[thaiphoon]

CLL - as usual I agree. I don't understand some of our 3rd down play calling but then again, I'm not in the HOF and don't have 3 SB rings. Still i think with our renewed emphasis on the running game we should see more runs called on 3rd down and short. Lets hope so b/c I think we can run on any team if our O-line comes to play.

But, be careful of your criticism guys. Someone might think you're not enough of a fan if you're not always praising anything/anyone that has a Redskins logo on it/them.

[1niksder]

Redskins 3rd down conversion rate is 42.2% that's not bad in the NFL. By comparision SOS's last year the rate was 34% and Tampa is converting third downs at 39.4%

[Irn-Bru]

The QB rollout is a high percentage play. If (instead) we run the ball on every 3rd and short (kind of like last year?) we will become predictable, then opposing defenses will shut us down just as easily. Everything in turn keeps opposing defenses honest.

Yes, the Eagles shut down the PA rollout play, but they were shutting down a lot of our 3rd down attempts. We had 16 3rd down situations in that game. We only converted 4 of those.

Now, we did have 4 3rd down attempts from 4 yards or less, and only converted one of these. Could Portis have grinded out those yards instead? Perhaps. But the short passes to ey have been clicking all year, and if Gibbs ran Portis instead we might be seeing articles about how predictable Gibbs' runs on 3rd and short are. Gibbs made a playcall, it didn't work. It happens in the NFL.

[thaiphoon]

The QB rollout is a high percentage play. If we run it on every 3rd and short and become predictable, then opposing defenses will shut us down just as easily. Everything in turn keeps opposing defenses honest.

While true I still think if our O-line comes to play on that 3rd down we get a first more often than not even if we always run the ball. Remember that article posted here about the original Hogs talking about how they would tell Randy White that they were going to run the ball and what play they were going to run and then they went and did it and executed it well? White was so pissed he took it out on Donnie Warren. The same thing can be done if our O-line plays well. It would be nice in 20 years to hear some stories from our current O-line about some of the things they said and did to the opposing players.

[HEROHAMO]

An enthusiastic YES! Now it could be argued that this had to due with Brunells arm because a lot of them were errant. Throwing on the run had to put some stress on that MCL.

I really think if we ran a draw play in that mold that Clinton would take it to the house. I say we run the bootleg twice, hopefully we'll convert twice also. Each time we run it we need to fake it to CP, the 3rd time he needs to get it. There can be no way in the world the LB's wont cheat over to eys side.

Sweet 'N' Sour Team: Mark Brunell sure looked like his old self by firing beautiful, deep passes to Santana Moss and James Thrash, plus running on third-and-8 for a late conversion that nearly iced the Skins' playoff invitation. But Washington keeps rolling Brunell left (he's left-handed) on short-yardage downs, and it's fooling no one. Philadelphia leading 17-7, Washington had third-and-1 on the Nesharim 6; Brunell play faked and rolled left, fooling no one, incompletion. Philadelphia leading 20-17, Washington facing third-and-3, Brunell play faked and rolled left, fooling no one, incompletion. Washington leading 24-20 with 3:25 remaining, facing third-and-3, Brunell play faked and rolled left, fooling no one, incompletion. All three plays were designed to go to H-back Chris ey, and all three times Eagles defenders, knowing what was coming, swarmed over ey. Memo to Redskins coaches: Everybody in the free world expects Brunell to play fake and roll left on short-yardage downs. This was the single-most predictable action in the NFL this season, and Washington needs to fix the problem before the playoffs commence.

Yes, Ive just been sitting up all night reading anything I can find. I go back to work tommorow (i work nights) and I have to get my body back to schedule. 10AM OR BUST!

a Draw would work maybe on or two times when they are caught offguard. THat is a good idea to catch them offguard a few times. Id say it its third and one to three yards just line it up and get behind the beef and plow forward. If successfull it does a number of things it gets us the first down,it helps tire out there defense,set up playaction, possibly demoralize there defense. I say maybe demoralize there defense because Ive never seen a Tampa Bay D give up there leadership is stellar.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Thats exactly why I would love to run such a play. Its cool to have such dominance that we can run anything and they simply can't stop it. We're at that point to an extent because we are kinda predictable but we're still putting 30+ points up. I think catching them off guard would help us because they wont always be able to say I know this is a run and be able to attack it at full strength, I want to keep that defense honest. I want them stretched out and worrying about every play maker on every play.

Id let Santana go into motion like he did against Philly which seemed to tip them off that it was a WR screen and let CP get the delayed pitch with Sellers out front.

[skinsRin]

are that I think the play calling is too conservative when we have a lead in the 4th quarter. I think we could have won atleast 2 more games just because of this.

[JansenFan]

I miss my favorite play. Goal line formation, sellers lead back, Portis behind. Give to the up-back and let Sellers demolish people.

We've done it once this year. Never last year when I was begging for it.

That being said, we're in the playoffs, and we got there doing things the Gibbs way, and that's good enough for me.

[DEHog]

I miss my favorite play. Goal line formation, sellers lead back, Portis behind. Give to the up-back and let Sellers demolish people.

We've done it once this year. Never last year when I was begging for it.

That being said, we're in the playoffs, and we got there doing things the Gibbs way, and that's good enough for me.

I like that one!!
It also works the other way around...did you see Portis demolish the Philly LB on the TD pass to Sellers

[DESkins]

For those who say that we should do things like another team does, last I checked, that other team is sitting home for the playoffs. We should sit at home too? Predictability isn't a bad thing, as long as the players make the plays. I know it's been said on this board, maybe not in this thread, but definitely on this board, that during a game, and if memory serves, it was an NFC championship game, against Dallas, the Hogs lined up across from Randy White, and told him "We're gonna run the ball down your throat", and proceeded to do it, because while the other team knew what was coming, they weren't able to stop the Redskins from doing it. Another classic example is the Giants-Bills super bowl (it ain't a Super Bowl unless the Redskins are in it, and if they win, it's a SUPERB BOWL!), in the second half, needing to run the ball to eat up time and keep the Bills' offense off the field, everyone in the free world, and quite a few in third world countries, and probably even a few aliens orbitting the Earth, knew that the Giants were going to run Otis Anderson, and they did, but the plays kept working because the defense wasn't able to prevent the execution on the plays. So as long as the Redskins execute the plays, who CARES if the Bucs defense know what's coming?

[funbunch]

I miss my favorite play. Goal line formation, sellers lead back, Portis behind. Give to the up-back and let Sellers demolish people.

We've done it once this year. Never last year when I was begging for it.

That being said, we're in the playoffs, and we got there doing things the Gibbs way, and that's good enough for me.

I like that one!!
It also works the other way around...did you see Portis demolish the Philly LB on the TD pass to Sellers

That block was beautiful, i've watched the highlight countless times. Clinton is a great all-around back that plays hard and gets it done.

[Chris Luva Luva]

We still need to open some holes for him on goaline situations. I hope he jumps over top of the line to piss off the Tampa offense. Mike Alstott was our problem last game, we need to negate him.

[Hooligan]

Play fake --> shovel pass!

[njskinsfan]

What is your favorite third and short call?

I have two: The Brunell naked bootleg against the counter trey. Second is the fake trey and pitching it to Portis running the opposite direction.

I know we have not run the naked bootleg all season and with Brunell's knee....

How about the wishbone with Sellers and Rock leading for Portis?

How about a Jumbo Package with one of the D-lineman or Lavar as a lead blocker?

[Chris Luva Luva]

What is your favorite third and short call?

I have two: The Brunell naked bootleg against the counter trey. Second is the fake trey and pitching it to Portis running the opposite direction.

I know we have not run the naked bootleg all season and with Brunell's knee....

How about the wishbone with Sellers and Rock leading for Portis?

How about a Jumbo Package with one of the D-lineman or Lavar as a lead blocker?

Id love to see some 3 back formations. I bet the problem or lack of it is due to blocking issues. It'd prolly be too easy for LB's to get in the backfield quickly...

[welch]

I like Jumbo and Super Jumbo (where a guard replaces the H-back).

If someone wonders why Kornheiser, in his Bandwagon series from '91, keep talking about Russ "The Flea" Grim and Mark "The Tick" Addickes, it's because both, former all-pro OG's, had lined up at H-back and sometimes Rypien would throw to them. Like Sellers as H-back catching a TD, but astoundingly bizarre.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I like Jumbo and Super Jumbo (where a guard replaces the H-back).

If someone wonders why Kornheiser, in his Bandwagon series from '91, keep talking about Russ "The Flea" Grim and Mark "The Tick" Addickes, it's because both, former all-pro OG's, had lined up at H-back and sometimes Rypien would throw to them. Like Sellers as H-back catching a TD, but astoundingly bizarre.

Why do you think we dont do any of this? That'd be amazing. I'd love to see Gibbs diverisfy the playbook even further. Were these things he did well into his tenure?

[welch]

Why do you think we dont do any of this? That'd be amazing. I'd love to see Gibbs diverisfy the playbook even further. Were these things he did well into his tenure?

Grimm and Addickes were great blocking, but they couldn't catch. Nothing. Gibbs did it on the goal line a few times, and even the opponents fell down laughing as they watched Russ Grimm bobble, bounce, squeeze the ball, give it a 295-pound bear-hug, and finally drop it.

Oh, but when they ran, especially with Gerald Riggs (250 pounds) carrying the ball. Just total the weight around the ball...Lachey, Schlereth, Bostic, Jacoby, Simmons or Mackenzie, Warren, Grimm...