There is definatly a Secondary problem

redskingush · Post by **redskingush** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:53 pm

The problem is there keep going down. Is anybody available for a playoff signing in case we lose more bodies that have any expierance. Im coming up empty. I was thinking Chris Cash, I do believe he on IR somewhere but not sure.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:59 pm

Garnell Wilds?

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:16 pm

Ray Buchanan but he's been out of football all year. Darrel Green still runs below 4.5

ii7-V7 · Post by **ii7-V7** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:27 pm

I've been saying since last season that we need more Cornerbacks! Gibbs and Williams did a good job with picking up Safeties who can play corner in a pinch, but we need help at CB. Spring and Harris aren't young and so far Rogers is constantly banged up!

Chad

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:48 pm

I hope Rogers will be back. Earlier in the week there was some talk he would play this week so maybe next week he will be ready. Hopefully Springs will be ready on Saturday too.

Flit · Post by **Flit** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:50 pm

I think both Springs and Rogers will be back for Tampa Bay. Maybe Springs will start not sure if he will finish the game, depends on how much pivoting and planting he has to do on his groin muscle

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:51 pm

We'll be fine. All you have to do is cover Galloway...put everybody else up for the run.

Champsturf · Post by **Champsturf** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:26 pm

Fine? Have you seen Harris this year? What happened to him? He was fine last year, but this year, he doesn't seem able to cover my grandmother. I know somebody here knows the answer to this...How many big plays have been against him? We HAVE to find somebody.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:39 pm

Champsturf wrote:Fine? Have you seen Harris this year? What happened to him? He was fine last year, but this year, he doesn't seem able to cover my grandmother. I know somebody here knows the answer to this...How many big plays have been against him? We HAVE to find somebody.

It hasn't been that many. How do you expect an average corner to defend the pass when a QB has 20 minutes to throw the ball? Seriously? A lot of you are asking things from him and others that aren't supposed to be asked in football. We have no pass rush and if we did his deficiencies would be masked.

THis is the same mindset that has gotten us in problems before. We can't have probowlers at every postion and all the way down the depth chart. We have players who can play but they dont have the components in the defense to help the excel. We have a hella sweet secondary.

A guess a pass rush, hence the word PASSSSS is only for sacking the QB... :roll:

Dannyboysucks · Post by **Dannyboysucks** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:46 pm

Guys relax!! We have the best coaches in football. We'll find a way to get it done, even if it means moss at a dime corner ala new england and Troy Brown. Have faith, and for goodness sakes ENJOY THIS WIN!!!! PLAYOFFSSSSSSS

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:01 am

Dannyboysucks wrote:Guys relax!! We have the best coaches in football. We'll find a way to get it done, even if it means moss at a dime corner ala new england and Troy Brown. Have faith, and for goodness sakes ENJOY THIS WIN!!!! PLAYOFFSSSSSSS

I wish I could enjoy it but Im ready to stand in for my team at any time. It baffled me that stupid ideas were floating around so soon after our 1st playoff venture since 1999 but I couldnt leave them unchecked. :twisted:

Braves on the warpath? Yep, thats me.

ii7-V7 · Post by **ii7-V7** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:29 am

I ran around me house like a idiot when Taylor snatched the fumble up! I yelled so loud it scared my baby. But I still recognize that we need depth at CB. I, unlike so many others here, actually think that Harris is a pretty good corner. And I agree that we need a better pass rush. Knowing that we can improve in some areas doesn't make me a poor fan does it?

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:36 am

chaddukes wrote:I ran around me house like a idiot when Taylor snatched the fumble up! I yelled so loud it scared my baby. But I still recognize that we need depth at CB. I, unlike so many others here, actually think that Harris is a pretty good corner. And I agree that we need a better pass rush. Knowing that we can improve in some areas doesn't make me a poor fan does it?

No, I dont think so. I guess its that Im sick of seeing these threads MINUTES /sarcam after we win the most important game in years! Im a bit volatile to these types of posts.

I just feel that before we do a serious/major signing at DB that we need to DRASTICALLY improve our pass rush and get the results from that. I guarantee everyone would be kissing the feet of our secondary if they had even an ounce more help. It irritates me that some people dont know the relationship between the rush and the pass D. Some people seem to think that a QB can stand in the pocket for 10 seconds and have our/any secondary successfully guard against it all the time.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:47 am

I'm with you CLL. You and I have been preaching about an improved rush for awhile now. Its been decent these past few games but we still need a stud DL that can rush the passer. The only reason I said we need CB depth is that ours seem to be hurt alot this year. And although I'm glad Morton did ok, I certainly had a large pucker-factor when we played a guy for the second half that we just picked up like last week.

But our secondary did hold up which is good.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:52 am

thaiphoon wrote:I'm with you CLL. You and I have been preaching about an improved rush for awhile now. Its been decent these past few games but we still need a stud DL that can rush the passer. The only reason I said we need CB depth is that ours seem to be hurt alot this year. And although I'm glad Morton did ok, I certainly had a large pucker-factor when we played a guy for the second half that we just picked up like last week.

But our secondary did hold up which is good.

Its in my opinion that our injuries aren't habitual but part of the game. We have physical corners and its comes at a cost sadly. We can't have it both ways. We have guys who come hard in on aspects of the game.

If we get a pass rush, our "lesser" skilled DB's will seem to be playing at a higher level. Im comfy with Harris at nickel. Im good with Christian at dime and even Jimoh. Christian hasn't had the benefit of being around long, he probally is pretty darn good.

Gibbs4Life · Post by **Gibbs4Life** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:53 am

The Bucs best weapon is WR Joey Galloway and if we're putting Springs on that dude, he better be 100%
And I'd take Darrell Green right now, just give him a helmet he's better than Harris.

SkinzCanes · Post by **SkinzCanes** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:46 am

Not looking good for Springs and Jimoh. Springs could have a torn groin or a hernia and Jimoh was diagnosed with an irregular hearbeat. :shock:

Springs Uncertain for Playoff
Cornerback's Injury Puts a Hurting on Depleted Secondary

By Howard Bryant
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, January 2, 2006; Page E12

PHILADELPHIA, Jan. 1 -- Shortly after being beaten on a second-quarter touchdown pass by Philadelphia Eagles rookie Reggie Brown, the Washington Redskins' starting right cornerback, Shawn Springs, left the game and did not return. The larger concern wasn't that he left, but whether he can play in Saturday's wild-card playoff game at Tampa Bay or at all again this season.

Springs has been hampered by a sore right groin, an injury that has lingered for five weeks, and he has played through increasing pain. Sunday, a Redskins source said that the injury is far worse than the strain the team announced after its 31-20 victory over the Eagles at Lincoln Financial Field.

The source said Springs has possibly a tear of the groin or a hernia. He is scheduled to have an MRI exam on Monday. Springs has played through the injury by the traditional football combination of desire and strong painkillers.

Early in the game, it was clear that the Eagles were testing him. Springs said he aggravated the groin midway through the second quarter. On second and seven from the Redskins 8-yard line with the Eagles leading, 10-7, with 6 minutes 9 seconds remaining in the half, Brown faked to the outside before running a crossing route over the middle. According to Springs, the groin injury prevented him from moving well enough laterally to his right in order to keep up with Brown, who sprinted past him and caught an eight-yard touchdown pass from Mike McMahon. The Eagles led, 17-7, and Springs never re-entered the game.

"All I can tell you is that it hurts bad, real bad," Springs said. "Now is not the time to be injured, but I can't even lift my leg right now."

Should the injury be as serious as it first appeared, the Redskins' secondary faces a considerable challenge. Both Eagles quarterbacks, McMahon and Koy Detmer, threw at the depleted Redskins secondary, which by the end of the game featured backup cornerbacks Walt Harris and Christian Morton, who was signed so late in the week that he did not appear on the Redskins' depth chart.

In addition to Springs, starting left cornerback Carlos Rogers is out with a torn left biceps muscle. He missed his third straight game yesterday, even though the Redskins' medical staff said Rogers had progressed well. Since the injury occurred Dec. 11 at Arizona, Rogers did not practice with full pads until Friday, a span of 19 days.

And backup corner Ade Jimoh was diagnosed after the game with an irregular heartbeat. He did not play in the fourth quarter.

That the injuries have mounted emboldened the Eagles, who passed for 261 yards. Nor would a vulnerable secondary be lost on Tampa Bay, which beat the Redskins, 36-35, on Nov. 13. In that game, rookie quarterback Chris Simms threw for 279 yards and three touchdowns. Simms was explosive, completing five passes for more than 20 yards, including the game-winning 30-yard touchdown to Edell Shepherd.

"Other teams are going to challenge us, especially because they see that we're banged up back there," defensive end Phillip Daniels said. "We have to put it upon ourselves to get more pressure on the quarterback to make it a little less difficult for them."

But the biggest injury is to Springs, who despite playing injured for the past five weeks was not challenged by opposing offenses in the manner of yesterday. He did not earn a Pro Bowl berth this season, but he is the Redskins defensive back upon whom quarterbacks are least likely to focus.

Over the past few weeks, the Redskins' medical staff has marveled that Springs has even played with this severe an injury, yet teams were still reluctant to test his health. The Giants last week only threw at Springs four times during the game, twice as many times as the Dallas Cowboys a week previous.

But Sunday in the first drive alone, McMahon threw to Greg Lewis three times. McMahon failed to complete a pass to Lewis on the drive, and on the Eagles' first drive of the second quarter, McMahon tested Springs again, but Springs stopped running back Ryan Moats for a five-yard loss on a swing pass.

On the next drive, McMahon attacked Springs again, with better results. Reggie Brown caught an eight-yard pass, and on third and 21 from the Redskins 22, Springs was flagged for a crippling pass interference call that gave the Eagles first and goal at the 8. Brown beat Springs for the touchdown on the next play.

"We knew they were a throwing team, but I personally didn't anticipate them throwing that much," Harris said. "It kind of caught us off guard. I think if we get Carlos back, and we could get Shawn back, that would be great. If we don't, we've got a bunch of guys who are going to have to step up and make plays."

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:14 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:..Its in my opinion that our injuries aren't habitual but part of the game. We have physical corners and its comes at a cost sadly. We can't have it both ways. We have guys who come hard in on aspects of the game.
If we get a pass rush, our "lesser" skilled DB's will seem to be playing at a higher level..

Chris, I agree with you and taiphoon, but this is what it is for right now.
Some here are thinking that because we are in the playoffs that we are a playoff team. This team is still making progress and we have come a good way since the end of 2003!
But, as you both (and others) have indicated - to be a better team (see playoff team) you need to be able to consistently push people off the ball and run on offense AND you have to be able to pressure the QB on D. This will be our keys IMO this offseason.

Hey - we are in the playoffs and thats a great thing. What a great season for this team.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:20 am

That sucks if Springs is badly hurt...

If it's really serious then he should rest it for next season, we'll need him.

Carlos Rogers though has proved himself IMO, he is looking like the best CB in the draft from last season and he's been making tons of plays on defense, he's already a better than average pro with plenty of room to grow.

SkinzCanes · Post by **SkinzCanes** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:24 am

Carlos Rogers though has proved himself IMO, he is looking like the best CB in the draft from last season and he's been making tons of plays on defense, he's already a better than average pro with plenty of room to grow.

I'll feel much much better about Springs' injury if Rogers is able to play next week. I think that Rogers can cover Galloway, especially with #21 in the lineup this time around.

ii7-V7 · Post by **ii7-V7** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:41 am

I would rather see us put emphasis on Pass Rush than on the secondary. I'm just saying that I'd like to see us carry another decent CB. Jimoh has turned it up lately but is essentially a special teamer. Rogers is really good but he does seem to be injured a lot. Harris is much better than most people on this board give him credit for, but he and Springs aren't young. I'm not saying that we trade up in the draft to get a CB. I'm just saying that we need to look at signing another capable body back there. And if we also get a stud DE then our Defense will really be something to see.

Chad

gibbsfan · Post by **gibbsfan** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:02 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Champsturf wrote:Fine? Have you seen Harris this year? What happened to him? He was fine last year, but this year, he doesn't seem able to cover my grandmother. I know somebody here knows the answer to this...How many big plays have been against him? We HAVE to find somebody.

It hasn't been that many. How do you expect an average corner to defend the pass when a QB has 20 minutes to throw the ball? Seriously? A lot of you are asking things from him and others that aren't supposed to be asked in football. We have no pass rush and if we did his deficiencies would be masked.

THis is the same mindset that has gotten us in problems before. We can't have probowlers at every postion and all the way down the depth chart. We have players who can play but they dont have the components in the defense to help the excel. We have a hella sweet secondary.

A guess a pass rush, hence the word PASSSSS is only for sacking the QB...

you and me both i,m seeing a non existent pass rush for much of this game and thats all i was thinking about.give me a good pass rusher upfront who can get after people.mike mcmahon hadnjust about all day to throw the ball but when detmer came in thats when we were able to get to him around the edges and the only reason there is cause detmer doesn,t have the scrambling ability to escape the rush.i didn,t understand the qb change but thanks.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:26 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Champsturf wrote:Fine? Have you seen Harris this year? What happened to him? He was fine last year, but this year, he doesn't seem able to cover my grandmother. I know somebody here knows the answer to this...How many big plays have been against him? We HAVE to find somebody.

It hasn't been that many. How do you expect an average corner to defend the pass when a QB has 20 minutes to throw the ball? Seriously? A lot of you are asking things from him and others that aren't supposed to be asked in football. We have no pass rush and if we did his deficiencies would be masked.

THis is the same mindset that has gotten us in problems before. We can't have probowlers at every postion and all the way down the depth chart. We have players who can play but they dont have the components in the defense to help the excel. We have a hella sweet secondary.

A guess a pass rush, hence the word PASSSSS is only for sacking the QB...

I would have bought into the whole "Pass Rush" argument before, but lately its been no excuse...we have been pressuring the QB into hurries, sacks and errant throws as of late. Harris is just not that good.

Even Springs with a pulled groin doesn't get beat as much as Harris. Harris was getting beat up and down the field against SD and as soon as Rogers replaced him he stepped up with a near interception and then an interception late in the 4th. He was operating with the same pass rush as Walt, different results.

I also read Greg Blache's interview where he pointed out that fans always want the exciting play (sack) when in actuality the Redskins defense has been #1 most of the year in "Completion Percentage Against" category. Blache says that fans are wrong when they blame the lack of sacks as the lack of a pass rush, when the stats show that we are the team with the least percentage of completed passes against us. That is due to good coverage and good pressure.

While a dominant pass rusher always helps, that is not the reason Walt Harris gets burned a lot, he is the reason, and Rogers proves it everytime he spells him.

I am all for signing Robert Mathis or someother pass rush specialist. But there is a reason why Gibbs and Co. went after RW McQuarters last offseason, they recognize that we need depth at that position. We should admit it too...just this week in the most important game we had Harris, Jimoh and a practice squad guy trying to save our playoff ticket.

redskingush · Post by **redskingush** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:48 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
chaddukes wrote:I ran around me house like a idiot when Taylor snatched the fumble up! I yelled so loud it scared my baby. But I still recognize that we need depth at CB. I, unlike so many others here, actually think that Harris is a pretty good corner. And I agree that we need a better pass rush. Knowing that we can improve in some areas doesn't make me a poor fan does it?

No, I dont think so. I guess its that Im sick of seeing these threads MINUTES /sarcam after we win the most important game in years! Im a bit volatile to these types of posts.

I just feel that before we do a serious/major signing at DB that we need to DRASTICALLY improve our pass rush and get the results from that. I guarantee everyone would be kissing the feet of our secondary if they had even an ounce more help. It irritates me that some people dont know the relationship between the rush and the pass D. Some people seem to think that a QB can stand in the pocket for 10 seconds and have our/any secondary successfully guard against it all the time.

I think this post missed the mark, not talking about performance in the least more so about depth, with the 3 cb's playing with nagging injuries I would hate to run out of DBs say in the playoffs. I expect to win the next 4 games, in that span we might run into springs hammy again, jimoh getting sick, rogers, harris whatever, just saying it wouldn't hurt to have somebody there just in case, Christian Morton did a good job yesterday but i would expect things to be a little tougher in these playoffs.

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:08 pm

Wow, I hope Jimoh is OK.