Our weaknesses and the draft

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:31 pm

http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/20051122-120059-6229r.htm

I have to agree with most of what's said here, but it's a bit rich to blame Gibbs for not drafting receivers and pass rushers in the last two drafts. This team had a lot of holes when he came back, and you can't fill them all in two drafts. But the Redskins have neglected the defensive line in the draft for too long, and it's about time they did something about it.

Personally, I don't think you can ever draft too many linemen on either side of the ball, so let's do it.

hatsOFF2gibbs · Post by **hatsOFF2gibbs** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:50 pm

What we need over the offseason:
Punter
CB who can cover (in place of Harris)
Defensive Linemne, DE in particular
2nd WR

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:30 am

hatsOFF2gibbs wrote:What we need over the offseason:
Punter
CB who can cover (in place of Harris)
Defensive Linemne, DE in particular
2nd WR

And as of today we have no first round pick.

skins81 · Post by **skins81** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:34 am

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:And as of today we have no first round pick.

We already used our first round pick on the future starting QB Campbell. And he has one year of learning already under his belt.

Mursilis · Post by **Mursilis** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:35 am

skins81 wrote:
SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:And as of today we have no first round pick.

We already used our first round pick on the future starting QB Campbell. And he has one year of learning already under his belt.

I wouldn't say he's learned much just watching and carrying a clipboard - he can do that in the film room in the off-season. Ultimately, a QB learns by playing, and JC hasn't done much of that this year. Hopefully, they can work him into some games this year. The future is now.

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:36 pm

Mursilis wrote:
skins81 wrote:
SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:And as of today we have no first round pick.

We already used our first round pick on the future starting QB Campbell. And he has one year of learning already under his belt.

I wouldn't say he's learned much just watching and carrying a clipboard - he can do that in the film room in the off-season. Ultimately, a QB learns by playing, and JC hasn't done much of that this year. Hopefully, they can work him into some games this year. The future is now.

I agree mostly with what you mean...but I look at the bottom line and the future: If we lose to the Chargers then our season is over so we would be best to play Ramsey so that he can be, in effect, "shopped" to other teams.

There is going to be lots of teams needing a qb this upcoming offseason and we should get some decent offers for Tulane-Boy.

John Manfreda · Post by **John Manfreda** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:37 pm

hatsOFF2gibbs wrote:What we need over the offseason:
Punter
CB who can cover (in place of Harris)
Defensive Linemne, DE in particular
2nd WR

I hope your not giving up on Carlos Rogers. We have spent the last two offseasons on the secondary, now its time to fill other needs.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:50 pm

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:
hatsOFF2gibbs wrote:What we need over the offseason:
Punter
CB who can cover (in place of Harris)
Defensive Linemne, DE in particular
2nd WR

And as of today we have no first round pick.

Our 1st round pick from the 2006 draft is already on our roster? Would you rather have had them not pick Campbell (who they SPECIFICALLY selected) just so you could feel good during the 1st round of the draft? We used the pick wisely but nobody can tell if it'll come to fruitation yet.

John Manfreda · Post by **John Manfreda** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:33 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:
hatsOFF2gibbs wrote:What we need over the offseason:
Punter
CB who can cover (in place of Harris)
Defensive Linemne, DE in particular
2nd WR

And as of today we have no first round pick.

Our 1st round pick from the 2006 draft is already on our roster? Would you rather have had them not pick Campbell (who they SPECIFICALLY selected) just so you could feel good during the 1st round of the draft? We used the pick wisely but nobody can tell if it'll come to fruitation yet.

Personally I wish they wouldn't have made that trade, I don't think Campell is any good, I wish we just waited until next year to draft a Qb. There are like 6 that are better than Campell that are going to come out. Dj Shockely, Vince Young, Leinhart, Drew Tate. Personally we should have kept the third round pick and drafted Orton. But lets forget about it, because hopefully we got the qb of the future and he will lead us to glory and I am wrong about Jason.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:00 pm

John Manfreda wrote:
hatsOFF2gibbs wrote:What we need over the offseason:
Punter
CB who can cover (in place of Harris)
Defensive Linemne, DE in particular
2nd WR

I hope your not giving up on Carlos Rogers. We have spent the last two offseasons on the secondary, now its time to fill other needs.

Carlos Rodgers will hold down one side but Springs is getting up there in age and the injury bug has made it's way across the country to find him once again. Harris is playing his way off the roster and we all know who the no. 4 CB is. :cry:

I think DE should be a priority a veteran if the price is right

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:04 pm

I wonder if Gibbs didn't draft those guys last year b/c he was going to get them in this years draft. He knew that they guys this year would be better. Just a though!

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:08 pm

Our 1st round pick from the 2006 draft is already on our roster? Would you rather have had them not pick Campbell (who they SPECIFICALLY selected) just so you could feel good during the 1st round of the draft? We used the pick wisely but nobody can tell if it'll come to fruitation yet.

CLL I love ya and all but this is still a dumb trade IMHO. Using the draft formula that all teams use we have to finish with the 9th best record or better for it to be better for us than the Broncos formula-wise.

Looking at it another way we traded for an extra 1rst pick in a weak draft and gave up a 1rst round pick in whats shaping up to be a stronger draft class.

The trade was Dumb ... if Campbell goes on to become the next Joe Montana I'll revise my opinion. Until then I still believe we got raped by Denver in 2 straight trades now ...

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:11 pm

Oh yea and we need:

1.) A dominant DE

2.) Quality DL

3.) A playmaking WR

4.) Quality OL

5.) A good cover CB

6.) More LB's

andyjens89 · Post by **andyjens89** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:17 pm

i had a dream that we somehow got the 3rd overall pick and drafted a DT and i was like WHAT THE HECK????!!!

DaRealistJoka · Post by **DaRealistJoka** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:18 am

GUYS DONT GET BEND OUT OF SHAPE BECAUSE WE DONT HAVE A FIRST ROUND PICK BECAUSE 1 WE CANT AFFORD A FIRST ROUND PICK 2 THIS DRAFT WILL BE DEEP IN ALMOST EVERY POSITION WE NEED. WE CAN GET A GOOD PASS RUSHING DE IN THE 2 ROUND LIKE TRAPP,WIMBOLEY(SPELLING,FROM FLORIDA STATE) MARIO WILLIAMS HAS DROPPED TO SECOND 3 ROUND PICK STOVALL 6'5 WIDE RECEIVER FROM NOTRE DAME SO DONT GET OUT OF SHAPE FELLAS I THINK THIS DRAFT IS DEEP.

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:47 pm

andyjens89 wrote:i had a dream that we somehow got the 3rd overall pick and drafted a DT and i was like WHAT THE HECK????!!!

Yep, that sounds like a dream alright.

zr0hero · Post by **zr0hero** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:58 pm

DaRealistJoka - Stop using caps.

air_hog · Post by **air_hog** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:19 pm

Mursilis wrote:
skins81 wrote:
SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:And as of today we have no first round pick.

We already used our first round pick on the future starting QB Campbell. And he has one year of learning already under his belt.

I wouldn't say he's learned much just watching and carrying a clipboard - he can do that in the film room in the off-season. Ultimately, a QB learns by playing, and JC hasn't done much of that this year. Hopefully, they can work him into some games this year. The future is now.

Dude, check Carson Palmer.

But I say we should target these guys:

TE: Dominique Byrd or Mercedes Lewis. I'm sure both should be there in the second round, and unless there is still a stud pass rusher available, I say we take a star TE since Royal absolutely sucks.

Punter: Tom Malone (maybe even as early as 3rd Round!) Again, I know everyone thinks punters are a waste of a draft pick, but look at what has happened to us the past four games because we have a crappy punter which leads to crappy field position which as cost us 4 crucial games!

weneedcharlesmann · Post by **weneedcharlesmann** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:28 pm

I agree that tight end is a need, but our highest draft pick, whatever it ends up being, has gotta be a d-end. Unless we can address this through a trade or sign someone, we've all seen our defense get pushed around as a result of no pressure...

I think that without a first round pick, we don't have much of a shot at kiwanaku or mario williams...darryl tapp may be around, elvis dumervil maybe (i doubt it, but maybe)...perhaps manny lawson, though, i think he might be a bit small...whatever the case, we need that badly...

as for the tight end spot, i think that one thing to remember is that hopefully manuel white will be back next year, and can contribute at the h-back spot, which perhaps could free up cooley to play more pass receiving tight end...barring that, i'd love to see perhaps vernon davis, though i don't know, he seems like he could go just about anywhere at this point...

after that, as many receivers as possible please...we don't have a whole lot of picks in this year's draft as it stands, so i think that everyone of them has gotta be someone that we think can contribute sooner rather than later...

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:50 pm

I'm getting old! Is Gibbs a "big" draft guy? I thought he "liked" guys with experience!!!
Am I confused about how he used draft picks to get guys from other teams? :hmm:

Must just be me and the fact that it's so far down the track that I really do not give a Yawn

about it right now!.

Too much football left this year (and early next year) to be worrying about the draft and the salary cap!

air_hog · Post by **air_hog** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:14 am

weneedcharlesmann wrote:I agree that tight end is a need, but our highest draft pick, whatever it ends up being, has gotta be a d-end.

See, I agree that DE is definately our biggest need, but I like feel that at about midway through the 2nd round, there won't be anymore dominant DE (and I guarentee you Kiwi or Mario Williams won't be there unless they get injured)

So when we are put in that position, I say we draft for best overall talent at a needed spot, and I believe right about that time is where the dominant TE will get drafted.

Put it this way, there will be about 5 dominant DLinemen in the draft, but they will all be gone by the 2nd round. And therre will be about 2-3 dominant TE in the draft, who should start to get picked at about our selection. So I say get 1 Stud TE and 1 OK DE instead of getting 1 OK Pass rusher and 1 OK TE...

funbunch · Post by **funbunch** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:13 pm

I'd like to see an offensive linemen drafted before a TE, we've still got johnson and kozlowski at TE when they get rid of Royal(I hope). There isn't much depth on the offensive line, so i'd like to see us pick up at least one guy there.

DESkins · Post by **DESkins** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:42 pm

Gibbs was always known for pulling a few "gems" out in the later rounds of the draft. Part of that may have been that in the early days of his first tenure, he had Bobby Beathard as a GM, and he had the ability to take players, hide them away for a few years and develop them, something that is not practical under today's salary cap conditions. There weren't that many trades (that I remember, but I'm getting old, my memory ain't what it was) that really made an impact, but the ones that I remember were Jim Lachey, Jumpy Geathers, Wilbur Marshall, and I seem to recall we traded for Matt Millen, although some of the other old-timers could correct me on any of those. Drafts, though, largely gave us the Hogs, Jacoby, Butz, Bostic, Grimm & Co. They also gave us a few unheralded tight ends that worked out pretty well, Donny Warren, Neil Olkiewicz, and let's never forget Art Monk!!! So I think it's fair to say that the draft has been more of a strength for Joe. Of course there have been busts, but any coach is going to have those. It's just that the busts were more recent, and thus a lot fresher in folks' minds. Part of that might have come from a change in the GM, when Beathard left and Charlie Casserly came in.

Redskins2k5 · Post by **Redskins2k5** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:01 am

What we need is a pass rushing DE because we generate no pressure with a 4 man front. If we could get pressure on the QB all day instead of when we blizth 8 we will do well.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:17 am

Gibbs was always known for pulling a few "gems" out in the later rounds of the draft. Part of that may have been that in the early days of his first tenure, he had Bobby Beathard as a GM, and he had the ability to take players, hide them away for a few years and develop them, something that is not practical under today's salary cap conditions.

I'd say that Beathard was 80-90% of the reason we got those later round gems in the draft. That and the draft was longer so you were able to draft guys that you now have to scramble to sign in the post-draft hours before they sign with other teams.

This is why we still need Casserly as a GM. Danny fired the wrong guy when Norv was still coaching. You remember that Casserly was the one who engineered the Ricky Williams trade and positioned us to draft 2nd and 3rd to pick up Lavar and Samuels. Cerrato then went on to screw the pooch