Since this is Hog's Site

[The Hogster]

Since this is The Hogs dot net, and we are the Redskins....I can't help but say this, but I was at the game watching and John Jansen and Chris Samuels have fooled us fans into thinking they are elite tackles.

They are NOT doing anything out there. Brunnel had no time, the 4 down linemen routinely beat our tackles today...Jansen looked especially poor.

I like Jansen and Samuels, but they are highly overrated and terribly overpaid. If anyone needs to re-do their contract its Samuels. Jansen is not playing well at all. I just have to accept it now after seeing them get beaten week in and week out.
Let's see how many DE's made the Pro-Bowl playing our Tackles...

Jared Allen
Umenyora (Giants)
Simeon Rice
Derrick Burgess

The only linemen on our team that can get pressure on the quarterback are our own Offensive Tackles.

[hkHog]

I agree, sometimes even when we max protect it seems like we can't block the other team when they only rush four guys. Samuels did a great job run blocking today, it seemed like Portis was always running behind him, but the protection, particularly on Jansen's side was terrible. The entire o-line has to sort it out, they are just so inconsistent.

[SkinsFanInHawai'i]

Not trying to make excuses, but when we keep changing coaches(and scheems), I think you almost have to expect this.
Almost all the good teams have had the same coaches in place for a while.

[PulpExposure]

To be fair, one of the sacks that Burgess had (the first) had him single blocked by Robert Royals.

After Simeon Rice and Jared Allen had blown past him in previous weeks, you think that Buges would know not to block a pass-rushing DE with a TE.

I mean...you'd think, right?

I also liked the Portis run where he got blown up in the backfield, with Dockery being pushed 5 yards back from the line of scrimmage, on his ass.

I have to say, I think we have a decent run-blocking line, but our pass-blocking is pretty bad overall.

[SkinsHead56]

John Jansen and Chris Samuels have fooled us fans into thinking they are elite tackles.

I like Jansen and Samuels, but they are highly overrated and terribly overpaid.

No kidding, how terrible have our OTs been the past couple of weeks. Jansen should put the cast back on, and 60 should have his knee scraped. These guys have made stars of some mid level DEs.

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

They had a bad game yesterday. I'm not ready to pass judgment on them until the season is over. If they can bounce back and play solidly down the stretch, we may look back on this thread and wonder "what were we thinking???"

[The Hogster]

They had a bad game yesterday. I'm not ready to pass judgment on them until the season is over. If they can bounce back and play solidly down the stretch, we may look back on this thread and wonder "what were we thinking???"

Really? You passed judgment on Lavar after he played a few snaps this year. Samuels and Jansen look the part, but they are average tackles on a good day. I like Jansen, I am luke warm to Samuels, but they are getting run for 10 games, and that is just unacceptable especially for the Redskins.

[wbbradb]

Samuels and Jansen just don't seem very quick on their feet. They can handle the bull rushes pretty well, but DEs can make speed moves to the outside and get around them almost every time. This is extremely dangerous because it causes fumbles; the QB can't see what's behind him.

Then they get so worried about getting beaten to the outside that they jump out there and leave themselves open to blitzes or stunts to the inside.

Buges has to continue working with them on their footwork. Fundamentals!

[JansenFan]

I'm not going to say that Samuels and Jansen have looked awesome this season BUT, I will say that there is more to it than what you think you saw. Most of the plays in the second half where pass plays (not sure why, maybe because Portis kept fumbling). The Raiders where sending the house, much as the Redskins do.

For instance, there was one series where the Redskins called three straight pass plays. All three plays, the defense sent more pass rushers then there are blockers. In that case, the blockers have to take the inside person first, and the quarterback is then responsible for the outside pass rusher. On these three plays, Brunell through the ball away to avoid the sack and we went three and out.

There are times when Jansen and Samuels have just been beat (Jared Allen beat them both in the KC Game), but most of the time time there is someone in Brunell's face, it is because we have called a pass play in which most of the guys go out and there are not enough blockers to account for all of the blitzers.

To correct this, we need to:
a. Stop sending Royal out in pass patterns unless he stays in long enough to pick up any stray blockers.
b. Brunell needs to keep an eye on his hot reads. Chris Simms killed us because even when the Bucs didn't pick up our blitzes, Simms was able to negate it by hitting his hot reads.
c. When you are up by 3 in the second half, and have run the ball fairly successfully all day, don't stop calling running plays.

[Redskin Don]

it reminds me of Joe Jacoby trying to block Lawrence Taylor back in the day. However, Jacoby didn't have any problems with anybody. Jansen, and Samuels as well more often than not, can't seem to block anybody this year. I agree that run blocking has been pretty good recently, but pass protection has been pathetic.

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

Really? You passed judgment on Lavar after he played a few snaps this year.

Nah, dude. I passed judgment on Lavar TWO SEASONS ago and am ONLY NOW finally starting to see what this guy can do.

As for Samuels and Jansen, I haven't arrived at a conclusion on them, since I really haven't had to pay attention to them until this year, when they've seemed unable to give Brunell time in the most crucial games. Again, I'll take a wait and see approach with the two franchise tackles, much like I am with Lavar's return to the lineup.

[The Hogster]

I'm not going to say that Samuels and Jansen have looked awesome this season BUT, I will say that there is more to it than what you think you saw. Most of the plays in the second half where pass plays (not sure why, maybe because Portis kept fumbling). The Raiders where sending the house, much as the Redskins do.

For instance, there was one series where the Redskins called three straight pass plays. All three plays, the defense sent more pass rushers then there are blockers. In that case, the blockers have to take the inside person first, and the quarterback is then responsible for the outside pass rusher. On these three plays, Brunell through the ball away to avoid the sack and we went three and out.

There are times when Jansen and Samuels have just been beat (Jared Allen beat them both in the KC Game), but most of the time time there is someone in Brunell's face, it is because we have called a pass play in which most of the guys go out and there are not enough blockers to account for all of the blitzers.

To correct this, we need to:
a. Stop sending Royal out in pass patterns unless he stays in long enough to pick up any stray blockers.
b. Brunell needs to keep an eye on his hot reads. Chris Simms killed us because even when the Bucs didn't pick up our blitzes, Simms was able to negate it by hitting his hot reads.
c. When you are up by 3 in the second half, and have run the ball fairly successfully all day, don't stop calling running plays.

While I see your points about the hot reads, I still think that for the amount of money we are paying Jansen and Samuels, they have to do a better job blocking their man.

The answer is not always taking the inside man and letting the DE go unimpeded to the quarterback. (We don't have Mike Vick back there) At least that has not been the offense that I have seen. Portis has been into to block, so is Royal, ey, and Sellers on many plays. Against the Giants the players even admitted that they were rushing 4 and dropping 7. That meant that it was hard to find an open receiver and the front four were beating us up front.

Uemnyora and Strahan had their way with our tackles, and the Giants didn't bring more rushers than blockers. The Raiders also didn't blitz us to death. They rolled a safety over Moss and doubled him, and they only blitzed their LB's on occassion. We just simply got beat.

If we want to improve as a team, we as fans have to understand that its okay to like a player (I like Jansen and Samuels) but you can't let your like for them impair your ability to look at them critically. Judging by your avatar, I assume you are a fan of Jansens, I am too, but honestly he hasn't been playing well and if you asked him I think he's man enough to say it as well. Maybe its his thumbs, or the year layoff, but at the end of the day, All Pro players don't get beaten by guys like Jared Allen, Derrick Burgess, and Umenyora. I just hope that some no-name Defensive End from the Chargers doesn't get on the pro-bowl ballot against us this week.

Teams are beating us because they don't have to blitz to get pressure on our quarterback. We are losing for the opposite reason. We have to blitz to get pressure. Think of how easy it would be if our D-Ends reduced the amount of time opposing QB's have to throw from 4 seconds or more to 2 seconds. That makes a huge difference at this level because all the players are so good and you can't cover anybody for 4 or 5 seconds. On the other side, we can't get anything going if Mark only has 2 and a half seconds to get back and get the ball out. In the games where we've protected the QB our offense has moved the ball well.

[kspeed10]

Do we even have hot reads? I never see Brunell making adjustments at the line of scrimmage and when was the last time we ran a slant pattern on an obvious blitz? We got killed by Lamont Jordan becuase he kept flaring out to the side of the blitz and no one was covering him in the flat because that backer had blized and our corner was deep with the receiver. Why don't we run stuff like that?

[Chris Luva Luva]

Brunell is too restriced imo. Its costing us timeouts and completions. Untie his hands Joe, you wanted a veteran to manage the game but you guys wont let him.

Let him audible and stuff.

[UK Skins Fan]

I've said in another thread that this o-line may be the most overpaid one in the league.

Individually, I like them all, but other teams are getting a whole lot more bang for a lot less bucks. We've now got Jansen and Samuels tied up on contracts that would be hellishly expensive for us to get out of, and Thomas is probably the same. Dockery is the only cheap one, and just doesn't seem to develop.

How come Portis seems to dry up in the second half? Is the o-line running out of steam? There has to be a reason that Joe seems to keep going away from the run in games that are always close (excluding the Giants debacle) - does he have no faith in the blockers either?

[John Manfreda]

What people don't relize is that they got this hype and great numbers when we had no interior line. Now that our interior line is solid were seeing how overrated our tackels are. Jansen is good but not great, like a B player above average. Samuels is horrible, he is a average pass blocker and a horrible run blocker.

[The Hogster]

What people don't relize is that they got this hype and great numbers when we had no interior line. Now that our interior line is solid were seeing how overrated our tackels are. Jansen is good but not great, like a B player above average. Samuels is horrible, he is a average pass blocker and a horrible run blocker.

Our interior line is solid? The only linemen earning their keep are Raybach and Thomas. Doc, Jansen and Samuels are playing likd crap.

[roybus14]

I doubt that it is a case of Jansen and Samuels not being any good. I think that it is coaching, preparation and play calling. Are these guys physically capable of executing the plays that are called? I can't believe that Samuels and Jansen can just get this bad on their own?

Bugle did a great job with the "Hogs" on the first go around but I think that it is time for some new blood, like Russ Grimm for instance. I wonder what kept him in Pittsburgh or did Gibbs even go after him?

B-Mitch made a very good point on Comcast last night. He said that what he is seeing in this bunch is that they are just getting beat man-on-man. He said that when he was here before things got bad, the team had the attitude that they could care less if you knew they were going to run to the right. They were going to beat you anyway. This team needs to get "nasty" and start beating the crap out of people. Yesterday was the only time that we have had multiple big hits from our defense (Taylor on Porter; Arrington on Crockett)...

[The Hogster]

I doubt that it is a case of Jansen and Samuels not being any good. I think that it is coaching, preparation and play calling. Are these guys physically capable of executing the plays that are called? I can't believe that Samuels and Jansen can just get this bad on their own?

Bugle did a great job with the "Hogs" on the first go around but I think that it is time for some new blood, like Russ Grimm for instance. I wonder what kept him in Pittsburgh or did Gibbs even go after him?

B-Mitch made a very good point on Comcast last night. He said that what he is seeing in this bunch is that they are just getting beat man-on-man. He said that when he was here before things got bad, the team had the attitude that they could care less if you knew they were going to run to the right. They were going to beat you anyway. This team needs to get "nasty" and start beating the crap out of people. Yesterday was the only time that we have had multiple big hits from our defense (Taylor on Porter; Arrington on Crockett)...

And how is that nastiness the coaching?? I think what we as fans are not accepting is that perhaps Jansen and Samuels were never as good as advertised. We blamed Spurrier's system for the sacks, but Brunell and Ramsey have been sacked consistently for the past 2 years as well and we are supposedly "max protecting" I think we put a lot of credence into schemes, but when it all boils down to it the question is "can you beat the guy in front of you"...its football at the end of the day...right now we are loosing those battles even against average Defensive Ends.

Joe Jacoby was not nearly as athletic as either of these two, but he had the mentality that he was gonna lay his body on that guy until he got tired and couldn't fight any longer...our guys don't blow people up like that.