Is Portis the best fit for this offense?

Snout · Post by **Snout** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:39 pm

I have come to the conclusion, after watching him play 21 games with the Redskins, that although Clinton Portis is a good running back, he is not worth the money we're paying him. In part I think his running style doesn't fit our system. In part I think that RBs tend to be one of the most overpaid positions in football. Given his personality, I predict that if his production does not increase, he is going to get frustrated and will want to leave, and anyone looking at the salary cap numbers is going to get frustrated. NO matter how deep the Redskins get into the playoffs this season, if CP is not the center of attention in January, I think he will be gone next year.

dnpmakkah · Post by **dnpmakkah** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:10 pm

Clinton Portis is having lots of problem getting consistant yards...no doubt about it. He seems to always be around 100 ypg but its usually because of a few big runs here and there.

Maybe he is injured, maybe the line is not that great at blocking or maybe he just doesnt fit this system. I have not idea but something just isnt right.

However, this is Gibbs second year here. The defense was set last year, the passing game is on this year and I think by the end of the year or maybe next year the running game will blossem, lets just hope Portis stays long enough to experience it all unlike Coles.

portis26 · Post by **portis26** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:13 pm

It seems like there are holes sometimes and Portis doesn't have the vision to see them.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:31 pm

There is nothing wrong with Clinton Portis guys. 1300 yds last year. He is on pace for close to 1400 yds this year. Give the guy a break and quit being so fickle. He is not going to run for over 100 yards every week, that is just the way the NFL is.

He has been the most productive running back (yardage wise) that Gibbs has had, including John Riggins, the problem is that the TD's have not come yet...give it time. He had a TD called back last week and still amassed over 100 yards. He is averaging over 4 yds per carry, but we are comparing him to his seasons in Denver rather than comparing him to other running backs we have had in the past.

When comparing him to Byner, Riggins, Timmy Smith, Clinton sits right at the top of the pack. Once our defense and offense are both clicking AT THE SAME TIME, we will operate with a shorter field, and Clinton will get more red zone opportunities.

Is he overpaid? Well, anybody with a 50 million dollar deal is over-paid, but I don't think he is a waste of money. You saw a prime example of the dropoff when he took a breather and Rock Cartwright stepped in.

Gibbs should consider utilizing more of the stretch plays that Clinton runs so well. He is more of a cutback runner, but he is still doing well in my opinion.

Hoss · Post by **Hoss** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:32 pm

portis26 wrote:It seems like there are holes sometimes and Portis doesn't have the vision to see them.

Those were my thoughts. It seems when he is patient and follows his blocks he gets a decent chunk of yards. Other times it seems he can get swallowed up easily. I think not having Ladell in there it hurt our running game.

Not being fickle. I always try to look at our team realisticly. I am a big skins fan!! Clinton does a good job, but I believe he can and WILL do better! My 2 cents

Hail!

SkinsHead56 · Post by **SkinsHead56** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:37 pm

What I saw that concerned me was all the trap plays at the goal line. It does not matter who is running the ball if the d-line men are 2 yds in the backfield.

Did #69 destroy Samuels today or what? That guy made the probowl off of #60 today.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:41 pm

If there are holes, I haven't seen them. Our pass blocking is great but we could use some holes where Portis could run through.

Snout · Post by **Snout** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:26 pm

The Hogster wrote: He has been the most productive running back (yardage wise) that Gibbs has had, including John Riggins, the problem is that the TD's have not come yet...give it time.
***
Is he overpaid? Well, anybody with a 50 million dollar deal is over-paid, but I don't think he is a waste of money. You saw a prime example of the dropoff when he took a breather and Rock Cartwright stepped in.

Gibbs should consider utilizing more of the stretch plays that Clinton runs so well. He is more of a cutback runner, but he is still doing well in my opinion.

I agree that the guy is good, but for $50 Million the guy should be able to walk on water. It all comes down to how we spend the maximum amount we are allowed to spend under the salary cap. For my money, I'd go with Betts and spend the leftover cash to sign a DE who could get more sacks and maybe force some fumbles.

2SeanTaylor1 · Post by **2SeanTaylor1** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:36 pm

gibbs need to make plays for cp, tat he use to, kinda have to realize those old counters is just not workin anymore

roybus14 · Post by **roybus14** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:09 pm

NO..... Portis is too much of a slasher for the offensive run plays we have. The plays we run call for a back like Betts or Lamont Jordan (Oakland; former Terp). Big backs....

Portis is too fast for the O-line to get into their blocking schemes.

dnpmakkah · Post by **dnpmakkah** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:14 pm

It has nothing to do with being fickle, the fact is that the Skins have trouble running the ball and we as "fans" are concerned about it and we have to ask questions. The most important thing a fan can do is question things that are not working.

It's not like we can go out there and play, the only thing we can do is ask questions and debate, do we have to think everything is fine and dandy...no we don't. No rushing TD's in 6 games and only 5 total last year. Yes im concerned about that.

I don't know who is at fault, but there is a slight possiblity that maybe Portis isn't as good as advertised. I like Portis for his blocking and I see improvement coming but I don't want to be so la-dee-da about it and say everything is ok.

thaiphoon · Post by **thaiphoon** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:20 pm

He has been the most productive running back (yardage wise) that Gibbs has had, including John Riggins, the problem is that the TD's have not come yet...give it time. He had a TD called back last week and still amassed over 100 yards. He is averaging over 4 yds per carry, but we are comparing him to his seasons in Denver rather than comparing him to other running backs we have had in the past.

When comparing him to Byner, Riggins, Timmy Smith, Clinton sits right at the top of the pack

A running game that gets a huge amount of yardage but doesn't score isn't helping us as much as it can.

The backs you listed each also scored more in a 21 game stretch than Portis has here (except for Smith).

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:02 am

Portis isn't the problem. Our line just isn't that good yet.

John Manfreda · Post by **John Manfreda** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:38 am

He is not going to run for over 100 yards every week, that is just the way the NFL is.
Agree
but we are comparing him to his seasons in Denver rather than comparing him to other running backs we have had in the past.

When comparing him to Byner, Riggins, Timmy Smith, Clinton sits right at the top of the pack. Once our defense and offense are both clicking AT THE SAME TIME, we will operate with a shorter field, and Clinton will get more red zone opportunities.
Disagree compeletly, when u trade for a player, u don't just hope for an upgrade, but u hope for the player he was with the other team. I was hoping for the 1500 yd, 14 td a season in Denver that is why u pay the huge contract. NOt just for an upgrade but for what he did in Denver.
I think Clinton is a good player but the running plays they run in the redzone don't suit him and have to do east-west run plays. U think we r the only team in the NFL with a small back.

Punu · Post by **Punu** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:44 am

Okay I personally think he is worth every penny!
The guy can get first downs like their nothing! He can come through in the clutch to keep us in the game on any 3rd and 9.
He gets yards, he cuts hards... and he can find the hole and run north and south as well as any other RB in the league...

But answer this... If we were to get rid of him... who else would you rather have? And why? How would he be better. Cuz if he was, he'd be more expensive.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:17 am

I never felt that Portis was the best choice for this system. I can't put my finger on what the problem is.

I'd rather have a bigger back than Portis but the deal is this. If the hole is there any back can get through it. The holes simply aren't there. The blocking is horrible is power run type plans. Portis can't get through the hole without having a defensive player be able to just fall on him.

Portis has problems too. Portis does not seem to have good balance. I know some of its his running style but he's stolen at least 2 TD's from himself by running like that. He always seems to be tripping towards the 1st down. He had a sure TD last week that he tripped himself up on and then he tripped himself up today by pushing his blocking when he could have just cut back behind the guy.

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:43 am

Portis is doing fine.The offense was great if not for the turnovers.Our d wasnt as good as usual.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:30 am

My ideal back would be more of a Shawn Alexander, (healthy) Stephen Davis, or of course Riggins (though I never got to see him play). So when I say that Portis isn't the best fit for us, it's probably because I'm biased towards the big guys (I loved watching Davis run in the 4th quarter).

We wouldn't necessarily have to have this conversation if our offensive line was opening up larger holes in the red zone. Portis slashes his way to 10-20 yard gains in open field pretty well, but whenever we get down to where it matters the opposing defenses tend to plug the holes and shut him down. There would be nothing more demoralizing for a team than if Portis had room to run inside their 10 yard line.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:55 am

Trust me guys, Clinton is doing just fine. The issue of him being overpaid was already conceeded, however, we would have been paying Champ Bailey comprable dollars to keep him here. He wanted like a 45 million dollar contract as well, so the trade worked for both teams in the long run.

Clinton is running the plays that are called for him. He is averaging over 4 yds per carry, at some point we have to hold the line accountable for some of the offensive ineptitude on the ground.

Chris Samuels is higher paid than Portis, I would argue that he is the over paid Skin right now...toss in the fact that Arrington looks like he is posing for a Campbells Chunky Soup commercial each week, then thats where some wasted dollars are going as well.

All I am saying is that you can't expect Portis to put up 15 TD's here when we are not executing in the Red Zone as a team. We are operating on a long field and we are not getting the opportunities in the Red Zone right now, but those chances will come once the defense and special teams start changnig the field position for us.

I just don't see how this falls on him when he is doing a remarkable job within the system here. He can't score TD's all by himself. We need to open up the holes consistently, and get more opportunities from 10-15 yards out.

I also agree with Punu, you all say that guys like Shawn Alexander and Stephen Davis are the ideal backs? Well Shawn has the franchise tag this year and will be a free agent next year...I'll bet he lands the biggest free agent contract of any running back around. Stephen Davis blows a knee every other year so I don't think that works either. Edgerrin James is another guy who is tagged with the Franchise marker..I think we have a good running back, one of the best in the league and once these guys sign their deals, I anticipate we will be paying comprable dollars for a comparable running back.

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:13 pm

Snout wrote:
The Hogster wrote: He has been the most productive running back (yardage wise) that Gibbs has had, including John Riggins, the problem is that the TD's have not come yet...give it time.
***
Is he overpaid? Well, anybody with a 50 million dollar deal is over-paid, but I don't think he is a waste of money. You saw a prime example of the dropoff when he took a breather and Rock Cartwright stepped in.

Gibbs should consider utilizing more of the stretch plays that Clinton runs so well. He is more of a cutback runner, but he is still doing well in my opinion.

I agree that the guy is good, but for $50 Million the guy should be able to walk on water. It all comes down to how we spend the maximum amount we are allowed to spend under the salary cap. For my money, I'd go with Betts and spend the leftover cash to sign a DE who could get more sacks and maybe force some fumbles.

Overpaid!!!???? :roll:

NOT AT ALL. Period.

A big reason why my boy Mark is having such a great year is because he has a $50 million dollar RB who is willing to put his ego aside and lay out youngins that come in on a blitz.

Anyone see him pick up the blitzes in Denver, in the rain, AFTER getting hurt????

Please, the man fits the system and everything that Joe is trying to do. The yards will come. Plus, I'm sure he'd rather have hold the Lombardi trophy than the makeshift "Rushing Championship Belt" at season's end. My 2 cents

spudstr04 · Post by **spudstr04** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:15 pm

It is not his fault that Gibbs is letting Brunell throw 40-50 times a game and not give him the ball at the goal line....I personally feel terrible for him because he is a team player that doesn't care about stats, but he deserves to get the ball more!!!!

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:41 pm

Punu wrote:Okay I personally think he is worth every penny!
The guy can get first downs like their nothing! He can come through in the clutch to keep us in the game on any 3rd and 9.
He gets yards, he cuts hards... and he can find the hole and run north and south as well as any other RB in the league...

But answer this... If we were to get rid of him... who else would you rather have? And why? How would he be better. Cuz if he was, he'd be more expensive.

Don't forget, he is an excellent blocker too.

zr0hero · Post by **zr0hero** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:52 pm

A big reason why my boy Mark is having such a great year is because he has a $50 million dollar RB who is willing to put his ego aside and lay out youngins that come in on a blitz.

Anyone see him pick up the blitzes in Denver, in the rain, AFTER getting hurt????

Agreed. Portis is a great addition to our offense.

coloradoskinsfan · Post by **coloradoskinsfan** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:45 pm

u no in the season that we won r last sb. gibbs was doing the thing byner. then byner went and asked gibbs to give him the ball more and gibbs did and bam sb. portis needs to get the ball 20 plus times a game and n every game. i do think that he is the perfect fit for our offense. and what r u talking about that he dosent have the size for this style. he weighs n at over 220. give him another year and he will be as good or not better than lt who is the best back n the league

Uaintready · Post by **Uaintready** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:12 pm

If you notice most of the time we run portis its left behind Sammuels, and Dockery. Dockery is a punk to me, this guy is 6'6 345p and cant get a push on goal line situations at all. Portis is best used in spaces where he has room to create, but the line is not getting to the second level and Portis then has to make people miss in the backfield or use his speed to get too the edge. And dont give me this thing about Betts is a better fit cause he is only averaging 3.3 ypc, with 0 tds. Im tired of seeing other running backs baning out TDs like Thomas Jones for the bears, and he is nowhere on the level of Portis. They need to run more screen with Portis and get him the ball in different ways. He is not the only one to blame, the line needs to step up, and Gibbs needs to spread the defense out.

Snout wrote:I have come to the conclusion, after watching him play 21 games with the Redskins, that although Clinton Portis is a good running back, he is not worth the money we're paying him. In part I think his running style doesn't fit our system. In part I think that RBs tend to be one of the most overpaid positions in football. Given his personality, I predict that if his production does not increase, he is going to get frustrated and will want to leave, and anyone looking at the salary cap numbers is going to get frustrated. NO matter how deep the Redskins get into the playoffs this season, if CP is not the center of attention in January, I think he will be gone next year.

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Is Portis the best fit for this offense?

Is Portis the best fit for this offense?

Re: Is Portis the best fit for this offense?