You people make me laugh...

FiveWidez · Post by **FiveWidez** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:34 pm

I just think it has been SO long since we had a team to be proud of people are just negative about everything now. We almost don't want to believe it when things go well. The past few years, I think the players have played like they feel the same way. The day of the Dallas game I felt like the game could be a turning point in the teams fortunes and future. Even in my office there was a "buzz" not just b/c it was Dallas but because people had a feeling of the games importance. Look at how they dumped Gatorade on Gibbs. The team felt it too. Gibbs, himself spoke of the importance. The negativity comes from so many years of negative things happening. The negativity trickled its way to the fans after a number of years. But guess what? It seems like the team does have a sense of cohesiveness and its only a matter of time before it trickles down to us fans. Hey, we are 2-0 and we have Seattle coming to town, then a tough road trip...lets focus on that.

King Cali Skin 2 · Post by **King Cali Skin 2** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:50 pm

HOSS wrote:
TopHawg wrote:Short-sighted? We've been losing for how long now? Every year we've said maybe next year and our time will come. All we've been doing the last 10 yrs is looking into the future. At what point is person allowed to think about the now, I ask you?

Exactly,
I'm thinking that right now we are 2-0!

Very correct, big difference between loyalty and blind faith. We are all loyal as can be to the Skins, but our O is clearly not producing and Joe’s scheme has not been effective in his 2nd run. He is still a "Hall of Fame" coach and brings back strong values to an organization lacking in recent years.

BUT, The entire 06' Preseason and 1.92 of the 2 regular season games say much more about our O than 4 mins of amazing play. I hope the bye allows Brunnel work in sink with the first team. Seattle will be a good test of both our D and our Offense’s ability to hang with a big shooting team as we will see with KC, SD, ST. Lou and Phil.

King Cali Skin 2 · Post by **King Cali Skin 2** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:54 pm

I agree FiveWidez, fans can get burned so many time for they become true Pessimist, I'm such many fans thought the Skinz could still blow the 14-13 lead or even miss the xtra pt. the way our luck has been in the late 90's and new Millennium. Lets move to 3-0, a convincing win with decent offensive scoring will put many at ease. It will for me.

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:59 pm

King Cali Skin wrote:
HOSS wrote:
TopHawg wrote:Short-sighted? We've been losing for how long now? Every year we've said maybe next year and our time will come. All we've been doing the last 10 yrs is looking into the future. At what point is person allowed to think about the now, I ask you?

Exactly,
I'm thinking that right now we are 2-0!

Very correct, big difference between loyalty and blind faith. We are all loyal as can be to the Skins, but our O is clearly not producing and Joe’s scheme has not been effective in his 2nd run. He is still a "Hall of Fame" coach and brings back strong values to an organization lacking in recent years.

BUT, The entire 06' Preseason and 1.92 of the 2 regular season games say much more about our O than 4 mins of amazing play. I hope the bye allows Brunnel work in sink with the first team. Seattle will be a good test of both our D and our Offense’s ability to hang with a big shooting team as we will see with KC, SD, ST. Lou and Phil.

You're right, in the preseason we had the third BEST passing offense in the NFL!!!!

And, as I said before it is IMPOSSIBLE to say Gibbs has not been effective in his second run. He has only had one season! Please look at what I wrote earlier:

hkHog wrote:With a team that has been so unsuccessful for so long it is ludacrous to believe that even the best coach can turn a team around in his first year!

Gibbs was 7-9 the last time around and won the SB the next year. Reid was 5-11 and then 11-5. Parcells was 3-12-1 with NYG before SB in year 4, 5-11 with Pats before SB loss in year 2. Even the mighty Bilichic was 5-11 in his first year with the Pats and 36-44 with the Browns.

Gibbs, Parcells, and Bilichek are considered three of the four brst coaches of all time!!! Reid and Bilichek are the best coaches right now!!!

Please, have some perspective people, 18 games is certainly not enough to judge a coach on. If it was, all of those coaches would have been fired!

So far this year his scheme has been effective otherwise how are we 2-0?

KPrince1975 · Post by **KPrince1975** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:07 pm

cvillehog wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:
cvillehog wrote:If you say so. Seems pretty useless to me, especially when this could've just been added to one of the threads already discussing all of this.

Some people will simply take longer folks. That's all.

A matter of time.

What are you even talking about?

Hello! Are we there yet?

skinsdeep · Post by **skinsdeep** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:16 pm

I wonder if anyone realized that football players are humans. We all have heard it from parents, siblings, and significant others, people make mistakes and that's life. As long as we stay behind our team, only good things should happen. Boss Hog, that was a very good post with great points.

pjp5 · Post by **pjp5** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:42 pm

Boss,

Listen, no one is being short sighted. No one is saying the skins suck. I will say however, that the offense is not 'great' and I still don't think the O has turned the corner. You say the way we won vs Dallas was a bi product of the ball control O that we play. I would agree with you if we had produced anything at all before min 55. The fact is the O couldn't move the ball. Did Brunell throw two beautiful balls, YES. Was it alittle luck, absolutely. Whatever you want to say about how bad RW is, and he is terrible, he was inches away from making both those plays. We needed two perfectly, (and yes perfectly) thrown balls. If either one of those had been off, GAME OVER.

Don't go saying you knew the skins would win that game, we all hoped it would happen. I made my roommates continue watching it after they had given up on the skins (they aren't from the area). I had faith, but that doesn't mean I am not realistic. The Offense isn't firing on all cylinders. If I were Seattle's D I would do the same thing everyone has done against us, line up 8 or 9 in the box and force the quarterback to throw. The bottom line is unless Brunell has been reborn he isn't going to be able to do that week in and week out.

Having said all that. If the O comes up with a better performance this week, great. But we need some consistency is needed before we can say the O is coming around.

Your post was probably the worst I have ever heard on this site. Poor work Boss Poor work.

PJP

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:31 pm

KPrince1975 wrote:
cvillehog wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:
cvillehog wrote:If you say so. Seems pretty useless to me, especially when this could've just been added to one of the threads already discussing all of this.

Some people will simply take longer folks. That's all.

A matter of time.

What are you even talking about?

Hello! Are we there yet?

Exactly.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:43 pm

pjp5 wrote:Your post was probably the worst I have ever heard on this site. Poor work Boss Poor work.

Where in your opera magna above did you acknowledge or discussed his points to reach this conclusion?

Did you read his FULL message before you came to such a judgment?

One of his points is that the outcome of the game was the result of a long and tedious process. It was the cummulative effect of an entire game plan. His point is that these were not Hailmaries. His point is that the balance of the game turned in our favour as a result of everything that had been done before.

As I said before, it will take some time for some of you to become FAMILIAR with Joe's game plan and it will also take time to UNDERSTAND it. I am in no rush from my side for you guys to get there. It is fun from OUR side. The sooner you get it the better for you but it is in your hands (really your minds). We have 14 games left in the regular season.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:47 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:
pjp5 wrote:Your post was probably the worst I have ever heard on this site. Poor work Boss Poor work.

Where in your opera magna above did you acknowledge or discussed his points to reach this conclusion?

Did you read his FULL message before you came to such a judgment?

One of his points is that the outcome of the game was the result of a long and tedious process. It was the cummulative effect of an entire game plan. His point is that these were not Hailmaries. His point is that the balance of the game turned in our favour as a result of everything that had been done before.

As I said before, it will take some time for some of you to become FAMILIAR with Joe's game plan and it will also take time to UNDERSTAND it. I am in no rush from my side for you guys to get there. It is fun from OUR side. The sooner you get it the better for you but it is in your hands (really your minds). We have 14 games left in the regular season.

Since you seem to have pointed me out previously as "not understanding" Joe Gibbs style football, please tell me what I have said that makes you think that. Also, I don't know how old you think I am, and while I'm no old fogey, I'm not a kid either.

Hill66 · Post by **Hill66** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:55 pm

admin wrote:Hill66 and Malicious were there... I'm sure they'll attest.

Just logged on and read this...

100% true...start tippin'

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:26 pm

cvillehog wrote:Since you seem to have pointed me out previously as "not understanding" Joe Gibbs style football, please tell me what I have said that makes you think that. Also, I don't know how old you think I am, and while I'm no old fogey, I'm not a kid either.

1.It was not a personal message directed specifically to any one poster.

2. I also said that -understanding- the system is not the sole property of the older guys.

3. From what you have written so far in this site, I get the impression that you do not truly understand and trust Joe's system.

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:34 pm

NikiH wrote:Jake I was not directed that at you at all. You on some level believed in your team or you would have gone to bed! I think sometimes it's easier for those of us who've believed and been rewarded for believing to continue. You'll get there. Hopefully this season will give you the faith you need to carry you through the rough spots!

I figured it wasn't directly towards me but I know I can be negative at times. It's only natural.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:38 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:
cvillehog wrote:Since you seem to have pointed me out previously as "not understanding" Joe Gibbs style football, please tell me what I have said that makes you think that. Also, I don't know how old you think I am, and while I'm no old fogey, I'm not a kid either.
1.It was not a personal message directed specifically to any one poster.

2. I also said that -understanding- the system is not the sole property of the older guys.

3. From what you have written so far in this site, I get the impression that you do not truly understand and trust Joe's system.

Ok, number three is the only one that gets to my point. What have I said that makes you believe this? I think you may be assigning other poster's statements to me, or taking my defense of other posters when certain people go off and tell people they aren't real fans (NOTE: I'm not saying you've done this).

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:50 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:3. From what you have written so far in this site, I get the impression that you do not truly understand and trust Joe's system.

the way you word this reveals the communication problem here. to you, understanding gibbs's system is synonymous with trusting it. that is not true. it is possible to completely understand joe's system and yet not trust that it is adequate in today's NFL.

NC43Hog · Post by **NC43Hog** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:47 am

die cowboys die wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:3. From what you have written so far in this site, I get the impression that you do not truly understand and trust Joe's system.

the way you word this reveals the communication problem here. to you, understanding gibbs's system is synonymous with trusting it. that is not true. it is possible to completely understand joe's system and yet not trust that it is adequate in today's NFL.

It is more important for the players to understand it and execute it, which I don't think has completely happened so far. The system is ok - just needs to be run correctly. My 2 cents

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:47 am

NC43Hog wrote:It is more important for the players to understand it and execute it, which I don't think has completely happened so far. The system is ok - just needs to be run correctly.

This is the best response anybody can give. But short of that, the only thing to do is winning (which we are doing).

I have two great games with hard-fought, close-scoring, smash-mouth struggling victories on my side. The rest is just a matter of time because everything that needs to be said has been written to you both and you are not listening.

The best way to convince people is to give them enough time to let them think it over and compare it with reality as it develops. We have most of the season ahead of us. Patience.

Peace.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:08 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:
NC43Hog wrote:It is more important for the players to understand it and execute it, which I don't think has completely happened so far. The system is ok - just needs to be run correctly.

This is the best response anybody can give. But short of that, the only thing to do is winning (which we are doing).

I have two great games with hard-fought, close-scoring, smash-mouth struggling victories on my side. The rest is just a matter of time because everything that needs to be said has been written to you both and you are not listening.

The best way to convince people is to give them enough time to let them think it over and compare it with reality as it develops. We have most of the season ahead of us. Patience.

Peace.

Where are you getting this from? What am I not listening to you? When have I ever said Gibbs's system won't work?

You really have my scratching my head here.

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:33 am

Great point NC34, you hit the nail right on the head!

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:36 am

cvillehog wrote:Where are you getting this from? What am I not listening to you? When have I ever said Gibbs's system won't work?

You really have my scratching my head here.

Good. I will keep this quote in mind in the future.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:48 am

Jake wrote:..I figured it wasn't directly towards me but I know I can be negative at times. It's only natural.

It's that journalist trait of trying to be "objective" and see all sides! :roll:

Keep up the great work Jake!

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:52 am

Regarding "Gibbs' system"!

NC43Hog wrote:..It is more important for the players to understand it and execute it, which I don't think has completely happened so far. The system is ok - just needs to be run correctly.

That is it in a nutshell, NC43! I think this speaks volumes - not just about the players but also possibly about some of us fans' too! =D>

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:05 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:
cvillehog wrote:Where are you getting this from? What am I not listening to you? When have I ever said Gibbs's system won't work?

You really have my scratching my head here.

Good. I will keep this quote in mind in the future.

Fine, but I don't know what good it will do. I think all that fresh canadian air is affecting your memory. I prescribe 2 weeks spent in the LA smog as a remedy.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:17 pm

Not only that cville - they now have all that allergies & pollen to contend with from the trees changing!

wbbradb · Post by **wbbradb** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:10 pm

NC43Hog wrote:It is more important for the players to understand it and execute it, which I don't think has completely happened so far. The system is ok - just needs to be run correctly.

I totally agree with this, but I also think everyone is placing too much emphasis on the idea of Gibbs's "system." It's not like he's trying to install an old copy of Windows 4.0 on a new laptop. The idea that Gibbs has this unchangable system that either will or will not work in today's NFL is ridiculous. His playbook is always changing. Does his "system" include the shotgun? It does now. Not only do the plays evolve over the course of a season, they can change during a halftime (most Redskins fans remember announcers in the second half of games praising his awesome "half-time adjustments").

The truth is that Gibbs's "system" is to run the football, control the line of scrimmage, hold onto the ball, protect the quarterback, and play good defense. This is not a system; this is just good football. But it's called a system because so many teams have tried to circumvent these basic principles to winning. Why? Because nowadays, the truth is that most fans do not want to see good football. They would rather see high-scoring games. Owners want to keep their fans happy, so they encourage their GMs to sign high-priced wide receivers instead of linemen. The result is a league filled with teams that can put up points, can win more games than they lose, can make the playoffs, but cannot win the Super Bowl (see the Eagles). It also results in young fans supporting young quarterbacks that can move the ball down the field but show zero decisionmaking or leadership abilities (see Ramsey).

I don't want the Redskins to score more points. I want them to win. Gibbs will tailor his "system" to his players and the result will be yet another Super Bowl ring. But it's a shame a lot of Redskins fans don't seem to be enjoying the ride...

Will