Roy Williams (DAL) should be Shot Dead.

King Cali Skin 2 · Post by **King Cali Skin 2** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:07 pm

If Roy Williams ends any NFL Players career with his "Dirty Horsecollar" move. He should be taken out back of the stadium and shot dead, execution style.

http://sports-att.espn.go.com/nfl/teams ... 6&team=was

He could have taken CP out like T.O. or even worse.[/img]

Gibbs' Hog · Post by **Gibbs' Hog** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:15 pm

I don't understand what's going on. The league makes a point out of saying that that kind of tackle is illegal, and will be called a penalty. Except that I've seen at least one blatently obvious tackle like that in each of our first two games.

We get called left and right for false starts, holding, unnecessary roughness, etc. - but the refs just seem to keep conveniently missing the 'horse-collar'. Oh well.

Punu · Post by **Punu** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:45 pm

I saw this more than once monday and it made me very angry!

joebagadonuts · Post by **joebagadonuts** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:47 pm

wow. what a completely tasteless thread.

AZHog · Post by **AZHog** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:50 pm

Gibbs' Hog wrote:I don't understand what's going on. The league makes a point out of saying that that kind of tackle is illegal, and will be called a penalty. Except that I've seen at least one blatently obvious tackle like that in each of our first two games.

We get called left and right for false starts, holding, unnecessary roughness, etc. - but the refs just seem to keep conveniently missing the 'horse-collar'. Oh well.

The problem is that, for whatever reason, the horse-collar is NOT illegal against a QB. Madden was talking about this problem during Monday Night's thriller.

joebagadonuts · Post by **joebagadonuts** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:52 pm

AZHog wrote:
Gibbs' Hog wrote:I don't understand what's going on. The league makes a point out of saying that that kind of tackle is illegal, and will be called a penalty. Except that I've seen at least one blatently obvious tackle like that in each of our first two games.

We get called left and right for false starts, holding, unnecessary roughness, etc. - but the refs just seem to keep conveniently missing the 'horse-collar'. Oh well.

The problem is that, for whatever reason, the horse-collar is NOT illegal against a QB. Madden was talking about this problem during Monday Night's thriller.

which is really dumb, IMO. you can rip a qb down by his collar and possibly do serious damage to his back, legs, etc., but you can't touch his helmet with yours or your arm or hand, or breathe on him the wrong way. seems backwards.

ejay183 · Post by **ejay183** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:08 pm

Roy Williams is only good at blitzing and run support. He always looks for the blow up hit, then misses and is forced to make tackles from behind. He cant cover and thanks to him, we won the game. Thank You Roy Williams

SkinsHead56 · Post by **SkinsHead56** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:28 pm

AZHog wrote:
Gibbs' Hog wrote:I don't understand what's going on. The league makes a point out of saying that that kind of tackle is illegal, and will be called a penalty. Except that I've seen at least one blatently obvious tackle like that in each of our first two games.

We get called left and right for false starts, holding, unnecessary roughness, etc. - but the refs just seem to keep conveniently missing the 'horse-collar'. Oh well.

The problem is that, for whatever reason, the horse-collar is NOT illegal against a QB. Madden was talking about this problem during Monday Night's thriller.

That is not entirely accurate. The "horsecollar" takle is illegal outside of the "tackle box". If a QB were to scramble outside the O-tackles the "horsecollar rule" is in effect. This execption allows D-line men to grab running backs or QBs while engaged with a blocker. The rule was meant to protect open field runners from being dragged down from behind by the shoulder pads. Defenders can still grab the jersey. It looks like #31 should have been flagged in that pic.

ArizonaHOG · Post by **ArizonaHOG** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:42 pm

King Cali Skin wrote:If Roy Williams ends any NFL Players career with his "Dirty Horsecollar" move. He should be taken out back of the stadium and shot dead, execution style.

http://sports-att.espn.go.com/nfl/teams ... 6&team=was

He could have taken CP out like T.O. or even worse.[/img]

Thanks for posting this. I saw this picture yesterday and that new rule is the first thing that came to mind. They won't call that penalty on the league's "golden child" cowboys unless one of them does it to a high profile player.

There was also a bad miss on a holding penalty on Dallas' long pass play. Phillip Daniels was held on that play. He was held the same way later in the game and we got the call. It was on a play late in the game, Dallas made a first down but it was called back. Anyway, thanks for the post.

skinsfano28 · Post by **skinsfano28** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:02 pm

they say its not a horsecollar if his jersey comes down at all. its hard to tell in that picture, but it looks as if his jersey is coming down a little bit, indicating to the blind officials that there is no danger--hwoever, the same thing occurred when williams got TO and broke his leg, and therew as no penalty but it was the impetus for changing the rule. this thread should be merged with stupidest rule in my opinion. anything near the shoulder pads should be deemed illegal--5 yards for the jersey down, 15 for the real thing, its only fair.

King Cali Skin 2 · Post by **King Cali Skin 2** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:02 pm

Thanks, ArizonaHog. Not to say RW should really be shot, but the horsecollar is a seriously dangerous move, when pulling a player back "enough if only jersey" when running full speed downfield.

A tackle can easily be made without the horsecollar.

The move is not worth saving 2-3 yds pulling a player back instead of tackling or pushing a player forward and seriously compromising players careers.

King Cali Skin 2 · Post by **King Cali Skin 2** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:05 pm

The ignorant punk just wants to make a highlight clip. Thinks he is "superman" like they nicknamed him in college for a flying horsecollar he pulled off.

TopHawg · Post by **TopHawg** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:39 pm

Gibbs' Hog wrote:We get called left and right for false starts, holding, unnecessary roughness, etc. - but the refs just seem to keep conveniently missing the 'horse-collar'. Oh well.

Threfs conveniently miss alot more than that. Especially blatant holding calls on big runs and kickoff returns to mid-field in the waning minutes of the game. As for the horse collar move apparently it's ok to grab the jersey but not the shoulder pads, is what the rule states. What the difference is? I dont know.

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:04 pm

ejay183 wrote:Roy Williams is only good at blitzing and run support. He always looks for the blow up hit, then misses and is forced to make tackles from behind. He cant cover and thanks to him, we won the game. Thank You Roy Williams

Check this out:

Cowboys' Williams Overrated

Yes, and that's from SI too.

Hoss · Post by **Hoss** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:25 pm

Good thread.

I agree that Williams is over rated.

He can have some monster hits, but he needs to
strengthen his overall performance as a safety.

coachKarl · Post by **coachKarl** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:53 pm

I am going to put Roy on my christmas list, because he helped the Skins win with is inability to cover deep. That a boy " Roy " thanks for the memories.

welch · Post by **welch** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:48 pm

If Roy Williams ends any NFL Players career with his "Dirty Horsecollar" move. He should be taken out back of the stadium and shot dead, execution style.

OK, shooting is, of course, hyperbole.

R Williams is an argument to make the crackback block legal again. Maybe just for him.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:58 pm

welch wrote:
If Roy Williams ends any NFL Players career with his "Dirty Horsecollar" move. He should be taken out back of the stadium and shot dead, execution style.

OK, shooting is, of course, hyperbole.

R Williams is an argument to make the crackback block legal again. Maybe just for him.

I thought "crackback" was legal and "chop blocking" was illegal?

But, don't ask me to enunciated the difference between the two.

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:13 pm

joebagadonuts wrote:wow. what a completely tasteless thread.

I feel better that I am not alone in thinking the phrase "should be shot dead" is a bit much ... by the way, I have never before suggested anything to the MODs but it seems to me the subject of this thread qualifies it for smack ... and I don't intend to sound pedantic or to give insult, I was shocked to find this in this forum

JPM36 · Post by **JPM36** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:16 pm

Man I hope nobody shoots Roy Williams. We need him out there when we play the Cowboys in December.

If not for Roy and his utterly TERRIBLE pass defense, we'd be 1-1 and complaining about another bad performance by our offense.

Roy should be playing LB, he could be a poor man's Derrick Brooks as an undersized LB. He is an absolutely awful coverage safety. It's ridiculous.

By the way he's also a lock to make the Pro Bowl as a safety once again.

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:14 am

joebagadonuts wrote:wow. what a completely tasteless thread.

why? if he ends a players career, he should be shot dead. the rule is unofficially called "The Roy Williams Rule", for crying out loud. he has absolutely no excuse to ever use that "tackling" technique again.

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:18 am

i saw the FOX pregame people demonstrating this rule, and they said that if the defender makes INITIAL contact any other way, they are then allowed to "horse collar". the horse collar grab just can't be the FIRST point of contact.

don't know if that's true, but maybe that explains why we haven't been getting the flags.

Gibbs' Hog · Post by **Gibbs' Hog** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:46 am

hkHog wrote:
ejay183 wrote:Roy Williams is only good at blitzing and run support. He always looks for the blow up hit, then misses and is forced to make tackles from behind. He cant cover and thanks to him, we won the game. Thank You Roy Williams

Check this out:

Cowboys' Williams Overrated

Yes, and that's from SI too.

Even for the SI writers, I thought this was great:

...ABC announcers John Madden and Al Michaels were too busy working on Williams' Hall of Fame induction speech to notice Dallas' hold on the game was slipping late in the fourth quarter.

BTW, I've seen the horse-collar tackle called in a lot of other games. Some were exactly as "defined," and some might have been close calls, with regards to this which-came-first;-the-jersey-or-the-collar question.

The point from my original post was that if the move is called on other people around the league, but not on the Skins (after witnessing 3 or 4 through 2 games), something seems odd.

ps. The rule was created to keep people from getting injured, right? Well, with all the other roughing-the-passer type of penalties, why in the hell would someone be allowed to use that type of tackle on a QB in the box?

joebagadonuts · Post by **joebagadonuts** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:51 am

die cowboys die wrote:
joebagadonuts wrote:wow. what a completely tasteless thread.

why? if he ends a players career, he should be shot dead

i see. i'll just say that if i ever end a player's career, i hope you're not on my jury. :roll:

i dislike roy as much as anyone, but, in my opinion, no matter how much you hate him, to suggest that he should be killed, even in jest, is tasteless. it's frickin' football.

i guess that's just me though. and fios.

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:13 am

Check out this quote from Roy.

I promise you if they run it again... we'll get a pick or Santana Moss will be on the ground hurting. Point blank.

Having him shot is way too extreme, but him having an ACL tear isn't after listening to this puke.

If you have real player you can hear it around the 3:00 mark.

play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/cowboys/demand/player_williams_092105.rm&proto=rtsp&rbnkey=1

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Roy Williams (DAL) should be Shot Dead.

Roy Williams (DAL) should be Shot Dead.

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